Help with 7.62x39 test boolits

[rictshaw]

Hello,

I've been reloading for a couple of years, but have not gotten into casting yet (mainly because my wife would kill me if I got involved in yet another hobby!).

Anyway, I have several mil-surp rifles (an SKS and a Hakim) that have been frustrating because of their poor accuracy with commercial ammo. After reading about other shooters who have been getting much better groups with cast boolits, I decided to finally "slug" the barrels of these rifles, and came up with the following numbers:

SKS: .314 bore
Hakim: .326 bore

Which is probably why the commercial ammo (.310 and .323 respectively) isn't doing so well.

I've checked several commercial cast bullet sources online, and they don't have any bullets in these larger diameters.

So, I'm wondering if anyone here does any casting of bullets in the .314 or .326 diameter, that might be willing to send me a few for testing...?

[Recluse]

After reading about other shooters who have been getting much better groups with cast boolits, I decided to finally "slug" the barrels of these rifles, and came up with the following numbers:

SKS: .314 bore
Hakim: .326 bore

Seems a little big for the SKS (don't know anything about the Hakim)

I cast a 155 grain 2r (spire point) gas-checked boolit and size it to .312 for my Chinese SKS. 11 grains of Blue Dot and it makes one big ragged hole at 50 yards with iron sights (on a sand bag).

Best of all, the low Blue Dot charge doesn't cycle the bolt, so it's like a bolt-action gun--which saves me from having to chase brass all over the place.

:coffee:

[rictshaw]

Yes, both are a little large compared to "standard" commercial loaded ammo, commercial jacketed bullets, and commercial cast bullets, which is why I'm looking for someone who casts or resizes to that diameter.

If I can find a 155 gr .314 boolit for my SKS, I'll have to remember that Blue Dot load; sounds nice.

[x101airborne]

Talk to the custom mold makers like NOE, MP, Accurate, etc. I bet they may have something suitable laying around. I think that NOE has about a 155 grainer in 316 diamater coming up in the group buys. Buckshot could make you a set of custom sizers.

Does anyone know if the 9.3 molds come out anywhere near 326? As long as it is within about 4 thousandths, it would be easy to size down.

[JeffinNZ]

Don't be fooled into thinking you have to stick to 155gr as a max weight. The SKS has a 1 in 10 twist. Try something like the 314299.

[wilit]

Isn't the Hakim an 8x57 rifle? I thought the Rasheed was the 7.62x39 version. The 8x57 specs out at a .323".

[rictshaw]

OK...my bad for not including "8x57 mauser" in the title.

But I think some of you are missing the point of the post. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Let me try again:

I'm not involved in casting yet, and I won't be for the foreseeable future, so I'm NOT interested in purchasing molds; they would do me no good, since I'm not casting.

I'm looking to find someone who is already casting "larger diameter than normal" boolits for these calibers, to see if they are willing to send me a few for testing.

I'll be testing them against some commercial .310/.311 bullets in the SKS, and commercial .323 bullets in the Hakim, to see if I can get better accuracy/tighter groups with the "larger diameter than normal" boolits.

I do know that I'm not limited to boolits of the same WEIGHT as commercial bullets for each of these calibers; in fact, I've copied a lot of info from Res45 from the "SKS survivor" website, who's successfully experimented with weights up to 200gr for the SKS.

I'm certainly willing to pay postage for some "larger diameter than normal" boolits in these calibers, since I can't find any commercially cast to the sizes I mentioned in my original post.

If I can't find anyone who can send me some, my next thought is to try a variation of this:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=87768&highlight=painting
using the Pro-Tec Powder Paint to increase the diameter of the jacketed bullets I already have to meet the bore requirements of my rifles.

Anyone casting/sizing to these specs that can help me out?
7.62x39: .314
8mm mauser: 326

[runfiverun]

i'd try in the wtb posts in the swappin and selling.
both of those are common sizes.
the 314 is a bit big for an sks though.

[toolz568]

I have one that is .312 and I gas check them in a .313 sizing die. It works great on all three types I cast.

[turbo1889]

Seems a little big for the SKS . . .

Not really I've seen SKS and AK guns chambered in 7.62x39 with barrels that measure all the way up to 0.315"-0.316" so 0.314" although over spec. isn't really an oddity and he should be happy it wasn't any bigger.

That said he doesn't necessarily need to use cast boolits he could use larger diameter jacketed boolits like the lighter weight offerings intended for the .303-Brit. cartridge. I have personally loaded these:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/423174/hornady-interlock-bullets-303-caliber-and-77mm-japanese-312-diameter-150-grain-spire-point-box-of-100

in the 7.62x39 cartridge for guns with looser barrel dimensions with excellent results that extra 0.002" in diameter (0.310" compared to 0.312") makes a world of difference in an SKS or AK with a loose bore.

[rictshaw]

"...and he should be happy it wasn't any bigger."
Well, I GUESS that's true, although I would have been MUCH happier if it was .310! :smile:


Turbo,

Thanks for the info.

So, even though the .312 jacketed stuff doesn't quite fill the bore, you've seen an increase in accuracy in rifles with .314 bores? Interesting...That opens up some other possibilities.

Another thing I found: last night I decided to measure the dia of samples of all the commercially loaded 7.62x39 ammo I have; several varieties of Wolf, Yugo M67, Winchester, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, etc...

Rather than pull the bullets, I measured the diameter right at the case mouth junction. Most measured .310 or .311, but amazingly the Wolf Military Classic measured .314

I thought it was a fluke, so I opened several other boxes of the MC, and got the same readings on other samples. Don't know if that batch was different than others made before or after, but I've got a bunch of the stuff, so that's going to be my "standard" that I'll shoot for measured groups.

[Harter66]

Turbo me too

Rictshaw,
I pm'd a pile of info .

I measured a bunch of commercial ammo also which in my some of this a few of those collection ran .308-.312 also . I think it was a FC that was .312 and an HP that was 308.

[turbo1889]

. . . So, even though the .312 jacketed stuff doesn't quite fill the bore, you've seen an increase in accuracy in rifles with .314 bores? Interesting...That opens up some other possibilities.

. . . . I decided to measure the dia of samples of all the commercially loaded 7.62x39 ammo I have; several varieties of Wolf, Yugo M67, Winchester, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, etc. . .

. . . amazingly the Wolf Military Classic measured .314

. . . opened several other boxes of the MC, and got the same readings on other samples. Don't know if that batch was different than others made before or after, but I've got a bunch of the stuff, so that's going to be my "standard" that I'll shoot for measured groups.


Turbo me too

Rictshaw,
I pm'd a pile of info .

I measured a bunch of commercial ammo also which in my some of this a few of those collection ran .308-.312 also . I think it was a FC that was .312 and an HP that was 308.

Yes, unlike cast boolits jacketed boolits don't absolutely have to be at least barrel diameter or over to provide good accuracy. With jacketed the general rule is the closer is better. Which means if you have a barrel that measures 0.314" then a 0.310" jacketed bullet (JB) will shoot better then a 0.308" and a 0.311" JB will shoot better still and a 0.312" will do even better. Obviously, that is a general rule of thumb and doesn't hold true in every case but unlike cast lead boolits its a progressive thing and just like with horse-shoes and hand-grenades "close enough" counts. Cast boolits on the other hand don't work that way and too small is too small and it doesn't really matter if its a 0.310" or a 0.312" cast lead boolit shot through a 0.314" barrel they both aren't going to give you problems.

Interesting about the Wolf Classic Military loads they may have been deliberately loaded with larger bullets since they are intended for the classic SKS and AK guns which are almost always a little on the loose side with only the rare exception. I was already aware that the Federal FMJ loads that come in the red colored box of 20 rounds were loaded with 0.312" bullets and I have found them to be better shooting in the average gun then most other factory offerings. Wasn't aware of the Wolf Classic Military loads though.

As to cast lead boolits specifically, pushing the jacketed boolits discussion pushed to the side, I have been using this boolit to good effect:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3191/5720681663_fd100091e3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/54455625@N04/5720681663/)

It's an AM#315-180B double cavity mold that has had one of the two cavities converted to round nose using a ball end mill cutter. As cast diameter on the base band and second band up from the base band is about 0.3155"-0.3160" depending on alloy with the first set of tumble lube bands at the base of the nose at about 0.315" followed by two bore riding bands at 0.303" with the top tumble lube band at the very base of the nose at 0.305" to just lightly engrave in the rifling. I designed to boolit primarily for use in 303-Brit., 7.62x54R, and 7.7-Jap. bolt action rifles but in round nose configuration it works nicely in my SKS guns as well although I do end up having to clean the gas port in the barrel every few hundred rounds since it is a plain base boolit without a gas check and and thus over time it does produce a build-up of lead in the gas port in the barrel.