My First Cast and Need Some Advise

[Terryfromok]

I finally got my equipment together:

1. Calibrated the PID with a RCBS thermometer.
2. Cleaned, smoked, and heated the molds up and applied the 2 cycle oil for lubrication (Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold TL358-158-SWC, .38 special).
3. The material is reclaimed/smelted outdoor range lead.
4. Melt temperature 670F +/- 20.

Here is what occurred.

1. My first casts were a total mess. I had the mold resting on sheet metal on a hot plate. The mold was too hot.
2. After letting the mold cool awhile, I casted again and what you see is what I got.
3. I believe I have complete fillout. I looks like the diameter what the fosting occurred might be slightly less. I have not measured it.
4. An area of frosting on one half of the bullet diameter. I do not know if it is the same side consistently.

What do you think causes the frosting in the bands.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_90134f25df2e10a6f.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3661)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_90134f25df3d0995e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3662)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_90134f25df4d9d073.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3663)

[popper]

Looks better than my first ones in .40. Some pitting on the bands and not complete fill-out. I had a few frosted on one side also. I'd size em, lube and shoot em, cast some more to get the experience level up. I've got to finish my PID.

[stubshaft]

Mold too hot. The third pic with the single boolit looks like you have some gunk in the lead too. What are you fluxing with?

[geargnasher]

Not to be snarky, but it doesn't look like you do much reading here!

Do a search with my full username and the keyword "frosty" or "frosted" and it will turn up about a hundred good threads that explain in great detail what causes frosting and what to think of it.

Gear

[sledgehammer001]

I have used Lee TL moulds for years. It's MY experience that you have a small smudge of contaminant in your mould, or a small hot spot. However, as long as your boolits are filling out all the way, and your grooves are fully formed, I wouldn't worry. I've used lots of mine that look exactly like your pic. Hope that helped, Jon







:cbpour:

[Terryfromok]

Popper--Thanks for the reply and information. I do need the experience and had to start sometime.

Stubshaft--Thanks for the info. I am fluxing with parafin (what a smokey/firey mess). I have some sawdust from my table saw to use. Will that work better? Does it matter if the sawdust is a mix (softwood, hardwood, plywoood, etc).

Geargnasher--Thankyou for the info. I will look and read.

Slesdgehammer-- Thank you for the info. I will reclean, resmoke, relube, and recast.

[stubshaft]

Sawdust doesn't matter if mixed. I think you'll get better results with it, but whatever you decide on that works for YOU is what you should use.

[plainsman456]

The sawdust will become your best friend.It smells better than wax and if the right kind is used it will make you hungry,it does it to me.

[Ole]

I think your bullets look fine.

Remember, we're making bullets to shoot, not museum displays.

If you think they are ugly now, just wait until you put that nasty old lube on them.

[Terryfromok]

OLE--Thank you for the compliment.

Stubshaft and Plainsman456--Thanks for the reply. Is there a particular method to sawdust fluxing? How do you perform this?

[stubshaft]

Basically just like using lube. Put it on top of the melt and stir it around (usually with a wooden stick) for about a minute. It will eventually turn to ash, then using a spoon just remove the ash and dross.

[oscarflytyer]

MHOFWHIW - probably not much!

Frosty bullets fill better and hod lube better. And they shoot fine! I actually pref mine to be a tad on the frosty side vs glass shiny.

Those bullets will shoot fine. Long as the base is square and full and the driving bands are filled out, I shoot them. If the nose has slight imperfections - tuff - they shoot!

Last, I have begun fluxing simply by stirring the pot with a wooden paint stirrer. Works great, no waste and easy to scrape the sides of the pot.

Caveat - I haven't done this very long, but I did a lot of research, decided not to overthink things (after a LOT of advice to this point solicited from my stupid questions!!!) and my bullets are shooting great.

Last, a new Lee mold (looks like what you are using) can take a good number of bullets to break in, in my very limited experience.

Bottom line - cast 'em, shoot 'em and then evaluate the real results. If you are satisfied with the shooting, the casting is fine. If not, then decide if you can make casting improvements that will improve shooting. If not, look for other culprits.

[dragonrider]

Sawdust is the best flux, but one must be careful, put it on your melt, a handful will do and let it get smoking real good then toss a match on it to lite it up, less smoke this way. Once it has turned to ash completely then start mixing it up real good, scoop it up and pour it back in a few times then skim it off and repeat once again. Much cleaner lead. don't go mixing in before it has burned to ash because sawdust is not as dry as you think it is, and Tinsel Fairy is hiding inside just waiting to jump out at you. Just remember ash first=no problem.

[geargnasher]

The sawdust will become your best friend.It smells better than wax and if the right kind is used it will make you hungry,it does it to me.

I dunno what kind of sawdust yer usin' there, amigo, but the last smoke I smelled that made me hungry got all my neighbors arrested! [smilie=l::redneck:

Gear

[GaryN]

"I dunno what kind of sawdust yer usin' there, amigo, but the last smoke I smelled that made me hungry got all my neighbors arrested!"

Hahahahaha, My sawdust just stinks up the casting area. I need a better fan.

[MikeS]

After you clean your mould good, skip the smoking step. There's no reason to smoke the mould, all it can do is mask any problem the mould might or might not have.

Also, go thru the boolits you've already cast, and if you find that they're the proper size, or larger (so they can be sized to the proper size), then lube them, size them, lube them again (this is using either LLA, or Recluse's version), and shoot them! If they're undersized, just add them back into the pot! Unless you're going to be shooting in a match, the boolits really don't need to be perfect, and for plinking they'll shoot just fine even if they have a few imperfections in them. The more you cast, the better they will come out, as long as you listen to some of the folks here.

I see that you're using a PID, so you shouldn't have a problem keeping the lead at a proper temp, I use a Lyman #2 like alloy, and cast at 650F with great results. Also, while you can preheat a Lee mould by dipping it in the melted lead, I find that using a hotplate works better, as the mould can really soak in the heat that way (the mould is more evenly heated), and you can adjust the heat so that when you're done pre-heating the mould, it's right at the proper temp for casting, so even the very first cast can be a keeper.

As you're just getting started it's ok to have a high reject rate, just don't make it a habit, and try and learn all you can from this site, there's lots to learn. I learn something new almost every day by reading messages on here.

[292]

My first casting was this weekend. I fluxed with a pinch of candle wax and for good measure a pinch of pencil shavings. Big fire, clean alloy, no problem. Preheated my molds on my wood stove. Boolits turned out ok. I like what Ole said.

[Wilsknife]

My boolits aren't always pretty, but they still make holes where I want them to.

[Recluse]

Size 'em, load 'em, shoot 'em.

You learn more by completing the process than by looking for absolute perfection your first few casting sessions.

I have that same boolit--Lee TL158SWC, and I'm thinking of taking out a Lloyd's of London insurance policy on the mold (two-banger). That is my NUMBER ONE shooting boolit in my entire inventory and arsenal.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=252&pictureid=3673

You'll never get a TL boolit to cast looking like a catalog showroom boolit. Never. If you do, something is wrong with your alloy. I PREFER a little frostiness and a little roughness on the lube bands because on a TL boolit, the bearing surface is what holds the lubes and does 99% of the work going down the bore of the gun.

Now, I will add a skosh of tin to the pot when casting TL boolits. I've found it helps with fillout, and with those narrow bands, it can make a difference. Just get you some solder and at about eight/ten inches into the hot alloy, stir and cast.

I've got all kinds of load data for that boolit in .38 Special. PM me if you want some good starting loads. Here is how I lube them http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654

Where in OK are you?

:coffee:

[Larry Gibson]

To answer the OP's question; "What do you think causes the frosting in the bands"(?)

"The material is reclaimed/smelted outdoor range lead."

Such is usually too high in antimony content with too little tin. Suggest you add 2% tin to the alloy and perhaps 20-30% pure lead. That will improve the antimony in solution with the tin and lead to have a better ternary alloy.

Also as mentioned; skip the mould smoking, it is not necessary. Cast with the alloy at 700*.

Larry Gibson

[Rick N Bama]

They certainly look better than my first attempts! I'm no expert, but I honestly don't see anything that would make me toss them back into the pot.

I find that 4 or 5 casting sesions with a new Lee mold vastly improves the quality of the boolits. You'll soon find the "sweet spot" for the mold & in no time you'll have a large supply.....fun ain't it:)

Rick

[Terryfromok]

Thank you to all who have responded with compliments and advice. You're a great bunch of guys.

Terryfromok

[sledgehammer001]

Heck, I thought the little hiccups were to keep casting from getting boring???? :)