Feet vs Yards?!?!?!

[Jkallen83]

i was wondering this....

i have my "ranges" that i shoot when i shoot. in alabama 21 feet is legal for self defense, but i normally back on up to 30 feet comfortably.

but i see people saying they are shooting at 25 YARDS with pistols. thats 75 feet. REALLY?!?!?! are yall really shooting at 25 yards? i hear people saying they are shooting 2-3" groups at 25 yards...maybe yall have longer barreled pistols but my 3" barrels just wont group 2" at 25 yards, id be lucky to hit a sheet of paper that distance with MY pistols.

so just wondering if yall actually mean FEET or are truly shooting 25 yards.. if you are shooting at that distance, why type pistols are you shooting???

everyone i know is amazed at how good i am with a pistol, ....i have a hi-point c9 that i can shoot my initials at 30 feet, id be more apt to hit a paper with it at 25 yards but not in a tight grouping...my Taurus PT 709 Slim is pretty accurate especially for self defense, but definately not at 25 yards..

so what distance are you TRULY shooting at? what is your TRUE groupings? and what pistols are you using to do this? excluding custom barreled target pistols that is, lets keep this more on a standard pistol or self defense style pistol.

[giz189]

Yep, 25 yds is a standard around where I shoot. However, I like to sight my hunting revolver at 50 yds. 41 mag S & W with 6.5" bbl.

[Jkallen83]

yeah friend has a 41 revolver, its got a long range, but also got a longer barrel than a self defense sized pistol.....

im not doubting anyone, just wanting to be sure of what yall are shooting. i feel confident i can hit a target at 25 yards, but not with any kind of grouping worth bragging about...

then again, i cant see wearing a 41 revolver for self defense, it would do the job tho lol

[Longwood]

i was wondering this....

i have my "ranges" that i shoot when i shoot. in alabama 21 feet is legal for self defense, but i normally back on up to 30 feet comfortably.

but i see people saying they are shooting at 25 YARDS with pistols. thats 75 feet. REALLY?!?!?! are yall really shooting at 25 yards? i hear people saying they are shooting 2-3" groups at 25 yards...maybe yall have longer barreled pistols but my 3" barrels just wont group 2" at 25 yards, id be lucky to hit a sheet of paper that distance with MY pistols.

so just wondering if yall actually mean FEET or are truly shooting 25 yards.. if you are shooting at that distance, why type pistols are you shooting???

everyone i know is amazed at how good i am with a pistol, ....i have a hi-point c9 that i can shoot my initials at 30 feet, id be more apt to hit a paper with it at 25 yards but not in a tight grouping...my Taurus PT 709 Slim is pretty accurate especially for self defense, but definately not at 25 yards..

so what distance are you TRULY shooting at? what is your TRUE groupings? and what pistols are you using to do this? excluding custom barreled target pistols that is, lets keep this more on a standard pistol or self defense style pistol.

Are you talking about off-hand or shooting from a bench and using a rest?

When people talk about there small groups or their test targets, they use every trick in the book to make the shots more accurate.

I have had several very accurate revolvers in several different calibers.

My Dan Wesson 44 magnum would put all six into the small end of a cinder block at one hundred yards, yeah yards, all day long and I had other revolvers with shorter sight planes that were almost as accurate.

Feet?
I own a pellet pistol that is guaranteed to put pellets through the same hole at 33 feet or I can send it to them so they can fix it for me for free.

[Jkallen83]

yeah i dont brace when i shoot...i shoot like i would if i HAD to shoot. im usually standing using 2 hands sometimes one hand and shooting....never tried bracing and shooting with pistol...

like i said, im not doubting anyone because i REALLY can carve my initials with one of my 9mm pistols at 10 yards standing with 2 hands unbraced....but back at 25 yards or more, just wondering what people are shooting, or as you just mentioned if they are using a bench..

[gandydancer]

That's all I ever shot in bull eye was 25 yards slow fire rapid fire many times in slow fire I would shoot in the 9o's some times a 99 at 30 feet you should shoot a good group.

[wilit]

At one of the outdoor ranges near me, the pistol area has lanes setup at 7, 15 and 25 yards. Usually when I get there all the 7 and 15 yard lanes are taken and I'm stuck on the 25 yard lane. :(

[DIRT Farmer]

Many years ago we had to qulify with the off duty gun we carried. I qulified out to fifty yards with a Walther PPK 380 and a S&W mdl 60 357. They will shoot better than you think.

[mooman76]

It really depends on the person but if they say yard, it's yards. I know sometimes people don't specify. I usually shot about 15-25 yards but sometimes closer. Rifle I usually shoot at 50y for convienance but I go back to 100y or more when needed.

[Jkallen83]

oh yeah, at 30 feet or 10 yards, i have very tight groups. my first cast bullets i been testing have opened up and i am in the size of a grapefruit now....but still working up the loads for them.

i think ill load up some rounds and back up....see what happens....my thing was reading about 2-3" groups at 25 yards...just wondered if they were doing something different than me or maybe if they had different guns...

[plainsman456]

I shoot my 22,45 and 40 S&W at 25 yards.
The 41 magnum Blackhawk get out to 75-100.

[Jkallen83]

I shoot my 22,45 and 40 S&W at 25 yards.
The 41 magnum Blackhawk get out to 75-100.

my buddy said his 41 was accurate out to 100 yards....thats just a cool gun

[MikeS]

Don't forget, short barreled guns with fixed sights made for self defense are a different animal than other pistols. Using a government model 1911 of modern manufacture which has a 5" barrel it's much easier to shoot longer distances than with a subcompact pistol designed for self defense.

What do you mean by saying 21' is legal for self defense? Do you mean that you need to be able to shoot a particular score at that distance to get a concealed permit? I would hate to think that a badguy had to be at least 21' away from you before you're allowed to shoot them!

Then there are pistols designed specifically for target shooting, and many of those can shoot under 2" at 100 yards, but you'd have a hard time concealing one of those to use for self defense. There are different types of handguns for different purposes, and because something can't be done with one type doesn't mean it can't be done with another type.

And yet another thing to consider, many members here take quite a bit of effort finding exactly what boolit design their gun likes, and what alloy it likes, how it needs to be reloaded (cartridge overal length, etc.), to make their gun shoot at it's best. Even with a small concealable gun used for self defense, chances are by custom tailoring a cartridge for it will make it a more accurate gun.

Yet another factor is how often the gun is shot. If/when you reload, and cast your own boolit, the cost of ammo gets low enough that you can shoot your gun a lot more than you do now, and the more shooting you do, the better you will be. I don't consider myself to really be too good of a shot, but when I see how the average shooter at the range I go to shoots, my targets always seem to be just a little bit better, so perhaps just by shooting more often I'm getting better without even realizing it (ok, I realize it now!), but even so, it's without any thought about getting better, I'm just having fun shooting boolits I made myself, and the getting better part happened on it's own. :)

[R.M.]

Outdoor bullseye slowfire is shot at 50 yards, and that's one handed. International freepistol is also shot at 50 yards, one handed.

[Jkallen83]

MikeS.....yeah alabama law is 21 feet for self defense, past that ur SUPPOSE to try to get away...i know its kinda stupid. not for getting a permit, just pay $20 and the permit is urs if ur legally allowed to own a gun.
i know there is target pistols and each gun is different. thats why i said im not doubting it. just wondering what people are shooting. i would consider my pistols compact. so im not gonna be shooting accurately at 100 yards with them by no means.

i shoot 21 feet for practice for self defense , but that is too close for me. i do some rapid fire at that distance to practice that "emergency" need. then back up to 30 feet for shooting.

[stubshaft]

I usually shoot my pistols at 50 yards. Sometimes when developing loads I'll put a target at 25 yards to see if the POI has changed drastically.

[oldgeezershooter]

We practice point and shoot at 15 and 25 yards and can usually get most of our rounds into the paper.
Free-hand we generally group about 6" groups at that distance.(With XD40 sub-compact and Ruger P-80.)

[jcwit]

The regional Bullseye matches held in June here in Indiana are shot at 25 and 50 yards.

I've watched a shooter put 5 rounds in the x ring at 50 yards one handed, bulleye fashion. Remember the x ring is under 2 inches.

[Jkallen83]

We practice point and shoot at 15 and 25 yards and can usually get most of our rounds into the paper.
Free-hand we generally group about 6" groups at that distance.(With XD40 sub-compact and Ruger P-80.)


those XD's are awesome, i got the taurus pt 709 slim for concealed carry, but i want an XD just to have because of how much i like them

[44man]

Like everyone has said, depends on the gun and the use. Some SD pistols are no good past 30 feet and were not designed for accuracy.
Yet we shoot 1911's off hand to 100 yards and I watched a Marine clang steel at 200 meters almost every shot, off hand. Not all are capable of course, some 1911's are too sloppy. That is the case with most SD guns, they have to work in any conditions. Little revolvers are tough too.
Now a good hunting revolver is different and we shoot almost all the time at 100 yards and can hit targets as small as 1" many times from sandbags or from Creedmore. Off hand we can hold about 6" after some practice. At my club we shoot revolvers to 500 meters (547 yards) just Creedmore. Vision has proven to be the limit of what they can do. All have been out of box revolvers with maybe a trigger job if needed. I shoot nothing but cast too.
A few weeks ago, before we left my range I shot my last three .44's at the 100 yard steel off hand and got this. Not normal for me because I need sandbags to do this! :veryconfu Never look down your nose at a good revolver.

[Frosty Boolit]

I once saw an older man shooting an old .38 with some nice patina on it at 25 yards. This was when I just started shooting handguns and the best I could do wasw 6" at 7 yards. When he went and got his target, there was a roughly 3" group in it where he had shot many rounds and the X was gone. Anyway since then I have gotten to !" at 7 yards and now just starting to shoot at 25 yards, The best I've ever done is maybe 6". Improvement has been slow though because of limited range time. I should mention, this is usind a two hand off- hand with a 6" 686.

[Breadman03]

I have a picture of a group from 25 yards with my 4" XD in .357 Sig. It was cold and windy, but the group is about 5" or so. That is the shortest range available to me within about 45 minutes.

That was slow, deliberate shooting, but Uncle Sam's Misguided Children learn to shoot pretty decent. Front sight post, firm grip, slow and steady squeeze on the trigger.

[Bret4207]

It's just what you are used to. Back when we carried the 681 Smith 357 we qualified at 7, 15, 25 and 50 yards. I shot a lot back then and still could see. I shot several coyote off hand at over 50 yards- head shots. When we got the Glocks they shortened the range to 25 yards (and at one point were teaching us to run away!!!). I knocked a running coyote down at over 100 yards with a Glock 9mm but never recovered him. Even today with my Mr. Magoo eyesight I can often hit a 10" gong at 80-100 with my M19. ( I can still roll a can from the hip at 20ish yards. Impresses the heck out of the kids) I've hit it 3/5 with my Charter Bulldog, but that's after getting the range and having a backstop where I could aim at a particular rock or dark spot. The Charter tends to throw them to the left at long range IIRC. Using my little Smith Airweight Bodyguard (M-38?) I've popped the gong at 65 yards pretty reliably, but it takes a lot of trigger control and sight alignment. That's just practice, practice, practice. Even a near blind guy can hit the target of he has the right sights and trigger.

I used to have a 2.5" Ruger Speed-Six. Very solid little gun with good sights. For the life of me I couldn't hit past 40ish yards with it. I really liked the gun, but something about it, or more likely about me, made it hard to hit with. I'm betting a couple weeks of practice with it and I would have found a way to hit with it. Sight alignment and trigger control is the whole key. I don't care who you are or what gun you have, without that you shoot patterns, not groups.

I think your Legislators that came up with that 21 feet stuff ought to be given a gun and have someone start shooting at them at 21 feet and see if they don't shoot back and just how close that really is! Never happen of course...

[cajun shooter]

JKallen83, It's quite evident from your posting that you are new to the sport of Firearms and shooting. That is not meant as a put down as the Worlds greatest shooters all have a first day.
I'm 65 years old and have been shooting since age 11 without parental standby. (We LEARN EARLY IN LOUISIANA)
Back in the early 70's I was involved in a revolver competition sport that was just getting it's start. It was called IHMSA, which was International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association.
We shot with standard factory guns at that time with open sights at various steel targets that had to be knocked over to score a hit. The targets were at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards. The position of choice was either the prone or Creedmoor IIRC.
The Rams were at two hundred and your sights completely covered the target. It required another person called a spotter. The first championship in Louisiana was won with a score of 27/40 with a Ruger 44 magnum.
I'm a retired police range instructor and to pass the basic training you had to score a 240 out of a possible 300 on the POST course. To prove how easy it was I passed while shooting a Bauer 25 automatic that is the size of the Browning 25.
If you go to the matches that are held at Camp Perry you will see perfect scores shot one handed standing from 50 yards.
Watch what Jerry Michluct(SIC) can do with a S&W 38 2 inch barrel up to 200 yards.
The old say of practice, practice is not quite true as you may practice till you are knee deep in brass and if doing something wrong you will never know what that is. To become a good shooter it requires a good teacher that tells you what to do to correct your mistakes. Perfect Practce, Perfect Practice makes good shooters.

[Grandpas50AE]

If you're trying to see what the gun and load is capable of, you need to be shooting from a rest at 25+ yards. Once you know the gun/load combination is capable of good accuracy, then shoot off-hand to see what YOU are capable of in field conditions. When testing loads I normally use a sandbag or bench rest, and my 200 gr. cast SWC .45 in my Kimber Ultra Carry 3" will shoot the 10 ring out of a bullseye target in 40 rounds or so (at 25 yards). I have shot 6" ballons at the backstop on an outdoor range (about 110 yards) with regular 4 hits in 7 shots with it - just find the right load first, then the accuracy equation becomes your shooting techniques to engage the target (trigger squeeze, breathing, sight alignment, sight picture, etc.).

As a side note, the qualification for CHL in Texas consists of offhand (two-hand hold) 10 rounds at 25 yards, 10 rounds at 15 yards, and 30 rounds at 7 yards. Silhouette target.

[Ola]

25 metres (27,34 yards) is the standard here. There is not a single range in the country that is shorter. The main reason is that we do not have the right to carry weapons of any kind. So pistols and revolvers are for sport only.

That means everybody learns the basics at 25 metres. When one can keep every shot (maybe 50 rounds or so) on the "black", one is considered quite a good shot. The black area of the standard target is 10 inches in diameter. After that the it's quite usual that the shooter moves on to IPSC, siluette etc.

At this point all my shooting is done at the siluette range ( 50 and 100 metres ). When the summer comes and the snow melts away, 150 and 200 metres will be available again. Most of my shooting is done off hand with a revolver. I'm still learning the sport so I do basic training. If I can hit 10 / 10 javelinas (?) at 100 m I think I did OK. If I can keep the shots in somekind of "group" at the center of the steel I'm very pleased with my self.

[contender1]

As you've probably noticed, many folks shoot a lot at the yards vs ft ranges. And they do so accurately. Even with SD guns. As noted many of them are quite capable of shooting well beyond normal SD ranges.
I guess the longest shot where the shooter was able to HIT a target with a snub nose S&W 38 spl was Bob Mundon. He took a shot at a balloon at 300 YARDS & hit the balloon. Yep, a snubbie 38 spl.
I shoot mostly outdoors, as I own a gunrange. Usually, I practice most of my pistol shooting at 25 yds or more. If you want to get good at longer ranges, may I suggest a quality instructor and some serious training? Quite often, bad shooting habits can cause inaccurate shooting.

[adrians]

the Hi-Point C9 is in my opinion a pretty good home defence pistol , i had one some time ago and it just didn't feel comfy in my hand so my daughter carries it now.
my SP101 in 9 will show give results out to 25ytds ( if i do my part),
my wife can surly hit paper with her LCR 38+p at 25ytds, she's not too keen on the recoil but it's her carry gun.
with practice and good loads the C9 ,although not being "top shelf" fodder. should give pleasing results out to 20+ ytds.
have a good sunday.....:evil::2gunsfiring_v1::twisted:

[tmax64]

I have a 629 with a leupold 2x scope. I can hit 4 out 5 on a small coffee can at 75 yards offhand. My hunting buddy neck shot a mulie with it at 150 yards using his walking stick monopod for a rest the first time he shot it.

[Rocky Raab]

My longest kill on a deer was 350 yards with a scoped single-shot pistol braced only on my knees. One shot. I have a couple more at 250. With that same pistol off a rest, my best group was .4" five shots at 100 yards.

With a revolver and only my elbows resting on the bench, I regularly hit clay pigeons at 100 yards. Offhand, golf balls out to 50 yards aren't safe.

Now, the above is not brag. I write it only to show what is indeed possible with a handgun. It does take some time and a few rounds downrange to achieve. (In my case, a half-century of shooting.)

[Iron Mike Golf]

US Army combat pistol qualification has targets 7 to 31 yards

[jimkim]

25 yards was the norm at the range. I also play chase the can in the field behind my house. Now that's fun, gotta' hit where it lands.

[Jkallen83]

JKallen83, It's quite evident from your posting that you are new to the sport of Firearms and shooting.


NO NO NO NO!!! i am DEFINATELY NOT new to shooting or firearms. ive had a gun in my hand since i started walking. most everyone calls me a sniper due to my accuracy at everything i shoot. i shoot almost daily.

new to cast bullets, YES, new to guns and shooting NO!

see now by reading these responses, im getting REAL answers. most are shooting about a 6" grouping at 25 yards. i can do that. my problem was reading about 2-3" groupings at 25+yards. now people are talking about target pistols, hunting pistols, and long barreled pistols, thats all different to what im shooting. im shooting self defense pistols.

want me to shoot at 50 yards, ill use my hi-point C9 for that one. most people hate the guns, but it has never had a single failure in 10 years, and is accurate as can be.

i also teach people to shoot because they want to be as good as i am. am i the best? no, i know people who can shoot just as good or better. but the people i train, they shoot and "hit" the target most of the time, but i hardly ever miss. correcting mistakes? yeah i teach that too, new shooters are the WORST to position wrong.

im not doubting anyone or any gun. everything and everyone has their limits. i was just curious to see what and how people are shooting some of these distances with some of these "groupings".

i dont own any hunting revolvers. i hunt with rifles. i shot a deer last year, between the eyes at 100 yards with my 7x57mauser with iron sights. the shot was actually 1/4-1/2" left of where i was aiming, coulda been me, coulda been the deer move a little. most denied that i could do that, but i had the deer to prove it, those who know me didnt doubt a bit, thought it was funny.

ive truly enjoyed reading the replies here. learned what guns would shoot long distances. my Taurus PT 709 Slim actually shoots low and left, as most of them do for some reason, so out past 30 feet its not as great of a shot, i can hit, but not great. the hi-point C9 is accurate as can be, ill shoot whatever distance with it.

i guess i mainly have no reason to shoot long distances with pistols, they are mainly designed for closer distances so thats what i shoot for. to each their own.

sure my original post may have sounded like a newbie, but to improve, sometimes u have to think like a newbie to be to learn something new.

dont doubt my abilities or i may surprise u. :2gunsfiring_v1:

[prs]

Don't worry, most of these guys shoot better than I do too. My practice is self monitored and not expert anc cetainly not perfect. But your statement that caught my attention was:

" in alabama 21 feet is legal for self defense,".

What do you mean? Surely if a bad guy is trying to shoot me from 100 yards away I am within my right to defend myself, no? Surely Alabama is not an anti-gun state!

prs

[white eagle]

150 feet
and 300 feet

[waksupi]

I shoot at around 40-50 yards here at home. When we get together where we can shoot further, a couple hundred yards isn't out of the question, and is preferred. At long range rifle matches in slack times, we have shot revolvers out to 900 yards, and hit often enough to make it interesting. For handgun practice, I never even consider short range. Get good at longer range, and short range is easy. 9 out of 10 gophers can't be wrong.

[Jkallen83]

prs, no alabama is not anti-gun, im not sure what that is about...if someone is shooting at me, im gonna return fire. from what i understand about it, ur SUPPOSE to not shoot someone unless they are within 21 feet, past that ur suppose to "flee". ive never heard of anyone being "measured" after shooting someone so im not sure what thats all about.

i guess to kinda give people that gets threatened by a person an idea of "when to shoot". in alabama, if they are on ur PROPERTY, no questions asked, u can shoot/kill and nothing can be done no questions asked. 3 days after the governor signed that bill there was like 3 reported break-ins and 3 dead criminals, i heard crime went down tremendously after that lol.

im assuming the 21 feet thing is just a guide for self defense if u were out in town or something for people who do not handle guns frequently to keep them from getting trigger happy.

[Cadillo]

MikeS.....yeah alabama law is 21 feet for self defense, past that ur SUPPOSE to try to get away...i know its kinda stupid. not for getting a permit, just pay $20 and the permit is urs if ur legally allowed to own a gun.
i know there is target pistols and each gun is different. thats why i said im not doubting it. just wondering what people are shooting. i would consider my pistols compact. so im not gonna be shooting accurately at 100 yards with them by no means.

i shoot 21 feet for practice for self defense , but that is too close for me. i do some rapid fire at that distance to practice that "emergency" need. then back up to 30 feet for shooting.

Can you please cite a source for that statement. I would love to read it. I have family in Alabama, and had considered going there for a visit, but the truthfulness of that statement may very well keep me back home in Texas.

I was in Law Enforcement for over twenty years, and I can't imagine the logic in such an idea. If true, everyone in Alabama needs to watch the video "Surviving Edged Instrument Attack" I saw it about eighteen yeas ago, and hope I have the name right. At twenty-one feet with a holstered gun, you are toast if attacked by a motivated assailant armed with a knife, and heaven forbid that he be shooting at you from twenty-five feet.

Please cite a source! I may need to alter my travel plans.

[Rocky Raab]

I read the 21 feet comment as meaning that's the range at which they do CCW qualification shooting in Alabama. Seven yards is common for police quals, I believe.

You are correct that there is a huge difference between calm group shooting and self-defense practice. Off a bench, one might be able to shoot a one-inch group at 100 yards but in a draw and shoot defense scenario that can easily become a one-yard group at 100 inches, LOL! When I do such practice (from near touching to ten yards or so) I try to keep the front sight on the second shirt button of my "bad guy" target - and that generally keeps me center of mass. So your results seem just fine to me.

[Jkallen83]

Cadillo, u r RIGHT. i had to prove to some friends who carry guns and told them about a person at 21 feet with a knife can kill u if ur gun is holstered. goes back into that training thing i do with shooters. we tried both ways, unloaded guns, no knife, and tried every way possible, i was the fastest draw and i still could not get aimed. i could get my gun from holster but not aim.

it IS true, if someone has a knife, u BETTER have ur pistol in ur HANDS before they get withing 21 feet or you dont have a chance. the person with the knife will get to u before u can draw, point, shoot.

[Jkallen83]

I read the 21 feet comment as meaning that's the range at which they do CCW qualification shooting in Alabama. Seven yards is common for police quals, I believe.


not sure about the rest of alabama, but we do not have to qualify, anyone with a clean background check and can legally own a gun pays $20 and has a permit in the 5 minutes it takes to type it up.

[Jkallen83]

ok i checked on the 21 feet thing. is not written, but its kind of a "law/rule/common sense guide" 21 feet is the average "maximum" distance, after that it becomes harder to justify.

[Tatume]

I shoot targets at 100 yards offhand with my revolver. Usually I'll just hang a six-inch square of sheetrock because I like to see the puffs. It's fun.

[mpmarty]

3" 45acp semi auto I carry will put all rounds (eleven) in a 3" circle at fifty YARDS. I frequently shoot at clay pigeons at 100 yards as do most of my fellow IDPA shooters. At twenty one feet I think I could throw the pistol with fatal effectiveness.

[Cadillo]

3" 45acp semi auto I carry will put all rounds (eleven) in a 3" circle at fifty YARDS. I frequently shoot at clay pigeons at 100 yards as do most of my fellow IDPA shooters. At twenty one feet I think I could throw the pistol with fatal effectiveness.

But the real question is whether you could do it quickly enough to save yourself from an attacker. Anything else is academic.

Nice shooting though!

[mpmarty]

But the real question is whether you could do it quickly enough to save yourself from an attacker. Anything else is academic.

Nice shooting though! Thanks, 73 years young shooting since teenager.

Agreed. My worst nightmare is being trapped in an elevator with a knife fighter. Figure on sacrificing an arm at least.

[Recluse]

yeah i dont brace when i shoot...i shoot like i would if i HAD to shoot. im usually standing using 2 hands sometimes one hand and shooting....never tried bracing and shooting with pistol...

like i said, im not doubting anyone because i REALLY can carve my initials with one of my 9mm pistols at 10 yards standing with 2 hands unbraced....but back at 25 yards or more, just wondering what people are shooting, or as you just mentioned if they are using a bench..

I test all my handloads at 50 feet, handheld, shooting at a 3x5 notecard just how an instructor in the military taught me.

I'M the biggest part of accuracy--even more than my gun and loads. So, knowing how I stand, hold the gun, take a sight-picture, etc, I test all loads handheld.

If I can't shoot one ragged hole at 50', handheld, in eighteen rounds or less for a wheelgun, twenty rounds or less in a semi, then it's back to the reloading bench to re-work the rounds.

The exception to this is for .380ACP. To date, and has been for the past few years, 9mm cast has been my biggest challenge and the only one I haven't been able to get my one ragged hole.

However, thanks to MtGun44 and Clodhopper and their superb advice and suggestions (along with some other folks here), I'm getting REAL close. I hit the mark with jacketed 9mm and AA#5 years ago, but the 9mm cast is giving me fits.

Once my handloads are where I want them, then yeah, it's all the way to the backstop.

Some of the handguns I fire include Smith & Wesson 686 and 586 models, with barrels ranging from four inches to 8 3/8", Smith K-frames, with 2 1/2" barrel and a Model 66 in four-inch. On a side note, I set a qualifying perfect score with my Model 19 in the 2 1/2" barrel when I was with the USMS, firing Federal Hydrashok .38 Special +P rounds.

Other handguns include the 1911 45 ACPs, Sig P220, P226, Browning Hi-Power, Taurus PT92 (my favorite, believe it or not, 9mm and my daily carry gun), Beretta 92, HK P7 (the most accurate of all the 9mms), Smith & Wesson Model 29s in six inch and eight three/eighths inch barrels, etc.

It's all about technique, practice and becoming "one" with your firearm, ammunition and conditions.

I can also tell when I haven't been shooting as much because my groups loosen up. . . like as of late. That tells me I need to spend more time at the range and less time at the reloading bench. :)

Problem is, I now enjoy handloading and casting more than I do shooting.

:coffee:

[trk]

The AVERAGE distance in police engagements is WELL under 10'; AND the AVERAGE number of rounds is UNDER 2.

Hmmm.

Don't need a scope nor iron sights. Two shot derringer would be good. BIG BORE would be good too for serious social purposes.

[fredj338]

Sure! IF you limit your ability to 21ft, you are likely to be killed @ twice that distance. Yes, the avg gunfight occurs inside that distance, but do you really want to bet on averages when your life is on the line? Consider that if you get in a gunfight in a parking lot, you could easily be two cars apart, about 50ft. IMO, you are no prepared for urban combat practicing point shooting only @ 21ft. Your training should extend to at LEAST 75ft, even 50yds is good to know. Look what happened to those LAPD guys during the BofA robbery. Most could not engage the threat because they had to be beyond 50yds because the BG was using a rifle. If you are in fight for your life, you want to be able to end the threat @ any reasonable distance.
AS to "good" shooting, no disrespect, but I can have brand new shooters hitting golf balls @ 21ft after an hour or two of training, that is a very short distance. Now 75ft is where shooting skill starts coming into play. You see it all the time in IDPA style shooting the really fast guys can get good hits out to 30ft or so, but move to 57ft & they start missing, sometimes pretty badly. It's no great feat w/ a good gun @ ammo to shoot sub 2" groups offhand. Rapid fire clusters of 4-5" @ 75ft is not that hard to do either. The only time I am shooting under 50ft is when I am doing raw speed drills for double taps or shooting on the move drill. Target practice @ 21ft is for the brand new shooter to build confidence & skills. If you are passed that, you are just wasting ammo trying to make small groups @ 21ft. Just about any gun & any ammo will print under 1" @ 21ft w/ a decent shooter at the trigger. Well, the 2 shot derringer might be the exception, terrible weapon choice for anything but contact shooting IMO.

[Cadillo]

The AVERAGE distance in police engagements is WELL under 10'; AND the AVERAGE number of rounds is UNDER 2. Hmmm.

Don't need a scope nor iron sights. Two shot derringer would be good. BIG BORE would be good too for serious social purposes.Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.
-A. Levenstein-

"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician."
-Col. Jeff Cooper

Derringer? HEE-HAW!

[Boerrancher]

I never was a great revolver shooter like my father. That man was absolutely amazing at what he could do with his old Ruger black hawk flat top 357mag. He also had amazing eyesight as well which I am sure helped. I can remember as a Kid sitting empty 12ga hulls on the top of the 100 yard target frame for him to shoot off. Very seldom would he miss. I can bust clay pidgins at 100 yards with my 45LC Black hawk, but not shot gun hulls. For most of my hand gunning I try to keep it no farther than 75 yards. I can shoot farther, but if I know I am going to shoot farther than 75 yards I take a rifle.

I use to when in college shoot with all the local LEO's and they were amazed at how well my friends and I shot hand guns at any distance. Heck one of my room mates bet one of our cop buddies that he could put 15 out of 15 rounds of 9mm out of his browning high power in a life sized human target at 100 yards. There was a $100 dollar bill riding on my room mates shooting ability so he didn't get too cocky and only put 7 of them in the head. We tried to teach the guys we shot with how to be fast and accurate, some of them listened and learned and some of them quit shooting with us because they were upset that they could be out shot by three 21-22 year old kids.

What they failed to realize is that each of us was shooting over a thousand rounds a week. Rain or shine we was at the range shooting. I don't care how crappy a shooter you are even like me, at a thousand rounds a week you can't help but get good if you are trying. I don't have the money or the time to shoot like that today, but we were also being paid to get better at shooting. Those that paid for our education also provided us with our shooting budget and I was shooting 100 rounds of 7.62 Nato a week as well. What I wouldn't give to be able to shoot that much again.

Practice is the key the more you shoot the better you get. I was at one time living proof of that. If you are good at 25 ft move back to 30 ft and get as good there, once you are comfortable, move back more. After a while you will be busting clay birds on the back stop.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Tatume]

The AVERAGE distance in police engagements is WELL under 10'; AND the AVERAGE number of rounds is UNDER 2.

The statistic I've read is that the average number of rounds fired is 2.5.

[olafhardt]

If I can't hit the target I just move it closer.

[zomby woof]

I've shot in a Bullseye Pistol league before. We shot pistols at 50 yards, one handed.

[canyon-ghost]

I typically shoot 15 meters or yards with 9mm but, it's a lost cause with 44 Special or 41 magnum. Last time I shot 44 Special it was to 50 meters. Here's a photo of 75 meters to the turkey rack and 100 meters to the rams.

The handgun on the line is a TC Contender with a rifle scope, in 32-20 WCF. Then again, it's single shot for hunter's pistol.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/3rdshooter/2007023.jpg

[canyon-ghost]

One of my books goes into range estimation. New laser range finders make it obsolete but, for your poor country boy that walks a lot, it isn't difficult to pace off distances to see how many steps it is.

15 meters is simply 17 steps for me, so that my self-defense target outdoors is the same distance. We shoot in classes at 50 feet, or 15 yards so, 15 meters is just slightly farther. That makes the outdoor version almost the same as indoor.

Nobody ever said that a silhouette shooter wouldn't make it harder, lol. Anyway, knowing your distances out to a couple hundred yards is a good tool.

[jdgabbard]

In Oklahoma the CLEET (Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training) range qual includes a 50yd shot.

EDIT: Oh and by the way. Here is a group at 25yds with a S&W 65 (non adjustable sights) off a rest. They're plenty accurate.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=223&pictureid=1504

[snglstack]

One a my favorite things is a lawn chair, a bucket a rimfire ammo, a good .22 pistol, and a 8"x5" steel plate at 100 yards. I can sit and shoot that thing all day, hittin it most of the time, at least enough to feel satisfied. If you can write yer initials it seems you probably have a pretty good sight picture. Try groups from a rest, just so you know. I'd wager you get some good ones.

[MikeS]

I read the 21 feet comment as meaning that's the range at which they do CCW qualification shooting in Alabama. Seven yards is common for police quals, I believe.

You are correct that there is a huge difference between calm group shooting and self-defense practice. Off a bench, one might be able to shoot a one-inch group at 100 yards but in a draw and shoot defense scenario that can easily become a one-yard group at 100 inches, LOL! When I do such practice (from near touching to ten yards or so) I try to keep the front sight on the second shirt button of my "bad guy" target - and that generally keeps me center of mass. So your results seem just fine to me.

One of the problems around here is that the only shooting is done at shooting ranges, rather than backyards. Most of the ranges will not let you take a loaded handgun from a holster (or pocket), and shoot, and many others won't even let you shoot at a target that looks anything like a person. The county run range won't let you shoot at a man shaped target, and won't let you shoot more than once every 5 seconds, otherwise they consider that 'rapid fire' which is prohibited.

With all the restrictions the ranges place on shooters, it's kind of hard to practice the needed skills of being able to draw and fire quickly, and accurately. Sure, draw & fire can be practiced at home with dry firing, but that doesn't help being able to accurately shoot from a draw.

When I lived in TN, I used to shoot in my backyard, and was able to practice drawing & shooting. I also shot almost every day while I lived there, something I don't do nearly enough of these days, but then when it costs $15.00/hour to shoot, it's hard to shoot often.

[krag35]

My standard for handgun accuracy is minute of 3# coffee can at 25 yards. I figure if its smaller than a 3# coffee can, I'm not scared of it. If its bigger than a 3# coffee can, I can hit it, and have a running start for a rifle or shotgun.

Seriously though, I am not a good pistol shot. I can hold an 8" group with my 44 Redhawk at 50 YARDS IF I take my time. My SIG P220 will do as well. again IF I take my time. Either of these handguns as well as my Kel-Tec P11 Will keep all shots on a sheet of paper @ 7 yds (21 feet) shooting as fast as I an pick up the sights from recoil.

[MT Gianni]

I learned on a PPC range with a 50 yard target. I recently sold a 2.5" smith that fit perfectly. It just would not group under 6" for me @ 25 yards. My CX 75, Kimber. K-38 and the Blackhawks will all do under 2" from a rest @ 25 yards if I do my part. Off hand I am lucky to keep them all in a playing card. Best day with a S&W 22A was 8 out of 10 shots on an 8" gong @ 100 yards off hand.
It is a lot like many other sports, if you only practice shooting a basketball from 5' you will never get very good @ 30'. If you practice @ 30' you are able to tune things where it becomes a lot easier.

[gandydancer]

Outdoor bullseye slowfire is shot at 50 yards, and that's one handed. International freepistol is also shot at 50 yards, one handed.
Well I must be wrong or telling a lie. I never shot 50 yard bullseye out doors in my life. in Ct with the range we shot at it was all 25 tards. one spot for 50 yard one person at a time for hand gun shooting. 100 & 200 yard for rifle. GD

[Jkallen83]

Today I used some of my cast bullets and measured off 25 yards so I could at lease see how I'd measure up with all u yard shooters....

At 25 YARDS with my Taurus PT 709 Slim, I hit the bullseye..

I still feel this is excessive distance for self defense pistols, but I did hit the bullseye..

[Jammer Six]

in alabama 21 feet is legal for self defense,

Do you have a citation for this claim? I'd like to read it, please.

[kmag]

I've read in this thread that shooting at 21 ft. is legal. The distance has nothing to do with legal or illegal. If shooting someone is justified in shooting the distance in feet means nothing. Also picked up that law enforcement qualifies at 7 yds. or 21 ft. If so, there has been a great change in the qualification over the years. About all the LEO agencies used to follow the FBI qualification which was fired from 7yds. to 50yds. From standing, sitting, kneeling and prone positions. Also part of the firing was done from barricades using both strong hand and weak hand. The 7yd. line was used because a study of actual duty shootings and most of then occurred at 7yds. or less. Can't tell you when the study was made because the FBI developed the course of fire over 50 years ago. If someone is firing at you from 75 yds. away and you return fire and hit them, the only question is were you justified in firing back. I would say you are, when someone puts in fear for your life that is assault unless the law has changed recently. I guess some agencies might use shorter distances if they do not have longer ranges.

[R.M.]

Well I must be wrong or telling a lie. I never shot 50 yard bullseye out doors in my life. in Ct with the range we shot at it was all 25 tards. one spot for 50 yard one person at a time for hand gun shooting. 100 & 200 yard for rifle. GD
NRA Bullseye can use reduced targets to allow for different range distances.
I should correct the distance I quoted for Olympic Free Pistol. It's shot at 50 meters, not 50 yards, unless, like bullseye, range conditions don't allow it, and reduced targets are used.

[Bret4207]

NO NO NO NO!!! i am DEFINATELY NOT new to shooting or firearms. ive had a gun in my hand since i started walking. most everyone calls me a sniper due to my accuracy at everything i shoot. i shoot almost daily.

new to cast bullets, YES, new to guns and shooting NO!

see now by reading these responses, im getting REAL answers. most are shooting about a 6" grouping at 25 yards. i can do that. my problem was reading about 2-3" groupings at 25+yards. now people are talking about target pistols, hunting pistols, and long barreled pistols, thats all different to what im shooting. im shooting self defense pistols.

want me to shoot at 50 yards, ill use my hi-point C9 for that one. most people hate the guns, but it has never had a single failure in 10 years, and is accurate as can be.

i also teach people to shoot because they want to be as good as i am. am i the best? no, i know people who can shoot just as good or better. but the people i train, they shoot and "hit" the target most of the time, but i hardly ever miss. correcting mistakes? yeah i teach that too, new shooters are the WORST to position wrong.

im not doubting anyone or any gun. everything and everyone has their limits. i was just curious to see what and how people are shooting some of these distances with some of these "groupings".

i dont own any hunting revolvers. i hunt with rifles. i shot a deer last year, between the eyes at 100 yards with my 7x57mauser with iron sights. the shot was actually 1/4-1/2" left of where i was aiming, coulda been me, coulda been the deer move a little. most denied that i could do that, but i had the deer to prove it, those who know me didnt doubt a bit, thought it was funny.

ive truly enjoyed reading the replies here. learned what guns would shoot long distances. my Taurus PT 709 Slim actually shoots low and left, as most of them do for some reason, so out past 30 feet its not as great of a shot, i can hit, but not great. the hi-point C9 is accurate as can be, ill shoot whatever distance with it.

i guess i mainly have no reason to shoot long distances with pistols, they are mainly designed for closer distances so thats what i shoot for. to each their own.

sure my original post may have sounded like a newbie, but to improve, sometimes u have to think like a newbie to be to learn something new.

dont doubt my abilities or i may surprise u. :2gunsfiring_v1:

Oh, okay, well never mind then. If you're that good then there's no more to say, and certainly not to advise you of. Sorry. I was going to let you know about the guys back in the early 1900's that shot live turkeys at 300 yards, off hand, but why bother.

[Alan in Vermont]

Back in the early 70's I was involved in a revolver competition sport that was just getting it's start. It was called IHMSA, which was International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association.
We shot with standard factory guns at that time with open sights at various steel targets that had to be knocked over to score a hit. The targets were at 50, 100, 150 and 200 yards. The position of choice was either the prone or Creedmoor IIRC.
The Rams were at two hundred and your sights completely covered the target. It required another person called a spotter. The first championship in Louisiana was won with a score of 27/40 with a Ruger 44 magnum.

Like Cajun I played the IHMSA game back when. When I was shooting regularly, and a lot, I could squeeze 3" groups out of my SBH at 100 yds. One of the clubs over in New Hampshire held matches limited to 4" guns. I don't remember if they ran it at the short (25-50-75-100 yds.) on the small .22 targets or if it was full size animals at the regular (50-100-150-200 meters) distances. I do know I brought home a trophy the one time I shot it, using my 4" Ruger Security Six.

The silhouette game sure showed up what can be done with handguns at what is normally thought of as rifle distances.

[MT Gianni]

Today I used some of my cast bullets and measured off 25 yards so I could at lease see how I'd measure up with all u yard shooters....

At 25 YARDS with my Taurus PT 709 Slim, I hit the bullseye..

I still feel this is excessive distance for self defense pistols, but I did hit the bullseye..

There are many other reasons to own pistols than self defense.

[375RUGER]

Why is it so hard for someone to believe that it can be done or there is no since in it being done if they don't think it is necessary?
I'm not satisfied with my self defense loads unless they make one ragged hole at 25 yds off of bags. My ammo needs to be capable of that. I need to be capable of shooting that well off hand also. Standing still and with still target. That is why combat shooting practice is best spent in a variety of stiuations while moving around and with moving targets if possible.

My longest predetermined distance (this scenariao plays in my head every Sunday) to use a hanggun in self defense is in church. It is 22 yds from the back entry to the front of the church where I could possibly be at a particular moment. At that distance in an auditorium with 200 non-combatants, I need to be able to hit a cantaloupe dead center or leave it in the holster.
Shooting at a paper plate at 7 yds isn't going to help me in that scenario.

[375RUGER]

Forgot to mention I carry a Kimber Elite Carry, AMT Government with some nice Nowlin parts under the hood, and a Taurus Ultra-lite Titanium in .38sp

[waksupi]

Take it easy on him, I know most of us spotted him as a kid right off. Once he gets some years and experience under his belt, he can look back on this thread and ask himself, did I really say that?

[Recluse]

Take it easy on him, I know most of us spotted him as a kid right off. Once he gets some years and experience under his belt, he can look back on this thread and ask himself, did I really say that?

You think the "shooting my initials" gave it away, or maybe it was the "my friends all call me Sniper 'cause I'm so good?" :)

I'm also with Ruger375--I look at the distances between possible "bad things happening" and "where I usually sit" at places like restaurants, church, meetings, etc and I'll tell you right now that the distance is well over 21 feet.

:coffee:

[Bret4207]

Take it easy on him, I know most of us spotted him as a kid right off. Once he gets some years and experience under his belt, he can look back on this thread and ask himself, did I really say that?

You suffer such ramblings better than I.

[Jkallen83]

Wow getting pretty harsh here...I never doubted anyone. I was just curious. Read the posts. Y'all got some serious pistols that have long range capabilities...I'm shooting 9mm....I ain't read one person with a scoped 9mm claiming to have killed a deer at 100 yards with a 9mm...no y'all have 41 and 44 and others. Great guns. I would assume they would have those capabilities.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. It was just a question. Stupid I know. But look at the responses and different pistols listed. Can I shoot long distance accurately? YES. Not knocking anyone for doing it, but past a certain distance I go for rifle shooting.

I hate to see everyone getting so angry at an innocent question. I'm not doubting ur abilities, don't doubt mine. I'm not bragging, but I am a very good shot. I do impress people. I have friends that impress me. Think I'd be shooting at 10 yards with a 44mag? NO I'd be shooting longer distances.

I've enjoyed reading about the different guns and distances. I knew most but some surprised me. Now if someone came in here claiming to have killed an elephant with a BB gun at 200 yards, I may be a little rude about it too lol. But I'm not doubting anyone or any gun. You can either shoot good or not. Ur shooting does not affect me as mine does not affect you. In the end you definately don't want me to be shooting at you no more than I'd want you shooting at me.

Come on y'all, this is suppose to be fun.

[nanuk]

I had a Dan Wesson in .357mag that with a makeshift rest, the 2.5" barrel, I could hit a milk jug at 60 yds pretty much 7/10. misses were very close, I'd say a man sized target would get a hole in it 10/10

off hand, I was on a man sized target at that distance pretty much the same, using single action. double action, about 5/10 on a man sized target.

this was not rapid fire, nor was I excited.

no better with the longer barrels.

that short barrel could plain shoot.

If someone who could shoot had it, I have no doubt they'd do far better.

[Recluse]

Can't take it anymore. . . (where's that smiley face where the little guy is gritting his teeth so hard that his fillings shoot out?)


I'm not bragging, but I am a very good shot. I do impress people.

Son, you oughta be from Texas. . . you understand bragging better than just about any Texan I ever grew up with.


You can either shoot good or not. Ur shooting does not affect me as mine does not affect you. In the end you definately don't want me to be shooting at you no more than I'd want you shooting at me.

Don't know how old you are and really don't give a hooey.

"I don't want you shooting at me?"

Son, you don't want ME shooting at YOU. Know why? I've shot at people before. Hit 'em too. That's what happens in combat and certain law enforcement situations, and a BOAT LOAD of us here at Cast Boolits are VETERANS and past/present/former LAW ENFORCEMENT. We've heard, seen and felt lead flying by us.

Some of us have also been shot too. It sucked. Didn't like it. So you might watch your mouth about telling us "we don't want you shooting at us." We might not like that very much.

We also have amongst our ranks several WORLD-CLASS RECOGNIZED BENCH REST SHOOTERS, some local, regional and district IPSC and PPC champions. We have members here who if they can't hit an elk at 400 meters with whatever gun they're carrying, THEY DON'T EAT.

We have members here who have Purple Hearts, Navy and Air Force Crosses, Silver Stars, Bronze Stars and a whole boat load of other medals and commendations from honorable service in foreign lands where opposing PROFESSIONAL, TRAINED soldiers were trying to kill us/them.

We have members here who can step out their back door after waking up, take their first sip of coffee, set down the coffee mug, draw whatever pistol they're carrying and place a boolit within two inches of whatever they were aiming at one-hundred yards away.

We have people in this family who are the best in the WORLD at what they do, be it making boolit lubes that help other shooters win national and world championships, be it designing boolits, be it working on and/or modifying guns or be it shooting guns. Some of the best that there is call this place home.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR FRIENDS MAY BE EASY TO IMPRESS. WE AIN'T.


Come on y'all, this is suppose to be fun.

Oh trust me. I have a feeling the fun is just beginning. . .

:coffee:

[44man]

Wow getting pretty harsh here...I never doubted anyone. I was just curious. Read the posts. Y'all got some serious pistols that have long range capabilities...I'm shooting 9mm....I ain't read one person with a scoped 9mm claiming to have killed a deer at 100 yards with a 9mm...no y'all have 41 and 44 and others. Great guns. I would assume they would have those capabilities.

I didn't mean to offend anyone. It was just a question. Stupid I know. But look at the responses and different pistols listed. Can I shoot long distance accurately? YES. Not knocking anyone for doing it, but past a certain distance I go for rifle shooting.

I hate to see everyone getting so angry at an innocent question. I'm not doubting ur abilities, don't doubt mine. I'm not bragging, but I am a very good shot. I do impress people. I have friends that impress me. Think I'd be shooting at 10 yards with a 44mag? NO I'd be shooting longer distances.

I've enjoyed reading about the different guns and distances. I knew most but some surprised me. Now if someone came in here claiming to have killed an elephant with a BB gun at 200 yards, I may be a little rude about it too lol. But I'm not doubting anyone or any gun. You can either shoot good or not. Ur shooting does not affect me as mine does not affect you. In the end you definately don't want me to be shooting at you no more than I'd want you shooting at me.

Come on y'all, this is suppose to be fun.
Oh, I don't know, a few were funnin with you! :bigsmyl2: You need to relax and join in. Some here are expert shots and fast shots, I used to be but that is long gone with age, shaking, bad eyesight, etc.
Yet I still shoot very far and shoot small groups with the aid of a rest and the times I can now hit off hand is counted on one finger! [smilie=l: The secret is my guns will always out shoot me because I make them shoot. And all expert shots are in the same situation because if you just look away from the practice some do, they will not do good with poor guns or loads.
But listen close---the best shots get away from close ranges. If you make your gun shoot far, the close stuff is nothing. See what I said? MAKE YOUR GUN SHOOT FAR even if you need all kinds of rests first. Your accuracy comes with practice but you are wasting time if the gun itself sprays shots.
Now, you are new to cast and cast can out shoot the "J" word stuff so to learn, you are in the right place. It is up to you to listen here. It is why it is called CAST BOOLITS! [smilie=s:
Now the 9mm, what can I say. the very best I ever shot was a WW II pistol, P-38 if I remember. It set me back with 50 yard accuracy. I could not miss.
I have shot many modern ones and I have to agree with one poster, I could throw it better. A 2", .38 snubby would shoot circles around most.
Accuracy is just not built into most nines. They are "in your face" guns. But you can, if you work at it, make them better. Cast is hard from most. Cast will also be a very poor choice for carry in it.
I don't like the nine with the little case that limits work with it. You are stuck with a few powders and boolits. I would own a 1911 in .45 ACP but then I go right to the .44 mag after that. The .40 and .357 are better for BG shooting then hunting but the nine doesn't seem to fit anywhere. You might do as well with a .22 or .380 at close range.

[Jkallen83]

Can't take it anymore. . . (where's that smiley face where the little guy is gritting his teeth so hard that his fillings shoot out?)



Son, you oughta be from Texas. . . you understand bragging better than just about any Texan I ever grew up with.



Don't know how old you are and really don't give a hooey.

"I don't want you shooting at me?"

Son, you don't want ME shooting at YOU. Know why? I've shot at people before. Hit 'em too. That's what happens in combat and certain law enforcement situations, and a BOAT LOAD of us here at Cast Boolits are VETERANS and past/present/former LAW ENFORCEMENT. We've heard, seen and felt lead flying by us.

Some of us have also been shot too. It sucked. Didn't like it. So you might watch your mouth about telling us "we don't want you shooting at us." We might not like that very much.

We also have amongst our ranks several WORLD-CLASS RECOGNIZED BENCH REST SHOOTERS, some local, regional and district IPSC and PPC champions. We have members here who if they can't hit an elk at 400 meters with whatever gun they're carrying, THEY DON'T EAT.

We have members here who have Purple Hearts, Navy and Air Force Crosses, Silver Stars, Bronze Stars and a whole boat load of other medals and commendations from honorable service in foreign lands where opposing PROFESSIONAL, TRAINED soldiers were trying to kill us/them.

We have members here who can step out their back door after waking up, take their first sip of coffee, set down the coffee mug, draw whatever pistol they're carrying and place a boolit within two inches of whatever they were aiming at one-hundred yards away.

We have people in this family who are the best in the WORLD at what they do, be it making boolit lubes that help other shooters win national and world championships, be it designing boolits, be it working on and/or modifying guns or be it shooting guns. Some of the best that there is call this place home.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR FRIENDS MAY BE EASY TO IMPRESS. WE AIN'T.



Oh trust me. I have a feeling the fun is just beginning. . .

:coffee:

I ain't trying to impress, I've been shot at and shot back. I don't doubt a word u said. The whole topic was what distance and what pistol are u shooting. I'm using 9mm pistols. I had a 22 pistol that I shot at farther distances...one of my 9mm I feel more comfortable shooting at longer distances than the other.

Impressed is that there are veterans here still around..medals, that's impressive. I'm not here to impress, I'm here to learn bout cast bullets. Maybe give advice if I can...

Reason I asked is I also have a 9mm carbine. Sweet gun. Most posts online r 25-50 yards which is what most of u shoot pistols at. To me its a rifle, 100 yards is what I shoot it at. On another forum, they said a 9mm round at 100 yards has no energy left for anything other than a paper or clay target. Mine has a punch to it at 100 yards...I read a guy who shot 200 yards with his. Everyone said it can't be done.

I don't doubt u fellers ....I can shoot, u can shoot, there is always someone better.

U want to see me not being accurate, u should see me trying to work up a load for these cast bullets lol.

I'm not against y'all. I'm with y'all.

And thanks to all the veterans on this site.

[fredj338]

see now by reading these responses, im getting REAL answers. most are shooting about a 6" grouping at 25 yards. i can do that. my problem was reading about 2-3" groupings at 25+yards. now people are talking about target pistols, hunting pistols, and long barreled pistols, thats all different to what im shooting. im shooting self defense pistols.

want me to shoot at 50 yards, ill use my hi-point C9 for that one. most people hate the guns, but it has never had a single failure in 10 years, and is accurate as can be.

i also teach people to shoot because they want to be as good as i am. am i the best? no, i know people who can shoot just as good or better. but the people i train, they shoot and "hit" the target most of the time, but i hardly ever miss. correcting mistakes? yeah i teach that too, new shooters are the WORST to position wrong.

im not doubting anyone or any gun. everything and everyone has their limits. i was just curious to see what and how people are shooting some of these distances with some of these "groupings".

ive truly enjoyed reading the replies here. learned what guns would shoot long distances. my Taurus PT 709 Slim actually shoots low and left, as most of them do for some reason, so out past 30 feet its not as great of a shot, i can hit, but not great. the hi-point C9 is accurate as can be, ill shoot whatever distance with it.

i guess i mainly have no reason to shoot long distances with pistols, they are mainly designed for closer distances so thats what i shoot for. to each their own.

sure my original post may have sounded like a newbie, but to improve, sometimes u have to think like a newbie to be to learn something new.

dont doubt my abilities or i may surprise u. :2gunsfiring_v1:

Geese, you are either trolling or just don't have a clue. Most serious shooters can keep any service pistol inside 3" @ 25yds, 5-6" @ 50yds OFFHAND. So you only doubt because you lack the ability to see it can be done. For fun we plink @ clay targets on the 100yd berm w/ our 45 service guns. We hit more than we miss. Golf balls @ 25yds are not out of the question either.:coffee:

[Jkallen83]

Fredj338,
no, i never said once in any time in this thread that i doubted anyone. i believe ALL of you. read the questions......what distance are shooting and what type pistols are you shooting??? at no time have i ever said i didnt believe anyone.

anyone who thinks i am doubting their abuilities is now WRONG, because i would NEVER do that. i am a good shot, but according to the posts i read, some of yall are WAY better than me. for me to get better, i am asking to know what yall are doing so i can see if maybe there is something i can do to improve MY shooting.

yes i am better than most of my friends. yes i do impress people who know me. mainly because i practice WAYYYYYY more than any of them. some of yall probably shoot more in a day that i do in a week.

am i a beginner to shooting and guns, NO!!!, am i a good shot YES!!!...have i ever once doubted anyone here, NEVER!!!

my intent was harmless and i got attacked. i came to this site and asked for help to learn to cast my own lead bullets, bought a mold, and asked questions and now i have great bullets. i asked a simple questions of what distance yall shoot and what ur using to shoot it and yall attack me?!?!?!?!

read this entire thread, i have never once doubted anyone!!! but when i read someone is shooting 2-3" groups at 25 yards and more, i want to know what they are doing different than me...cause i shoot at 30 feet/10 yards mostly.

so why are yall attacking me when i have never once doubted or talked bad about anyone here??? just asking questions to improve my accuracy.

the only thing im a newbie to is casting lead bullets..

as i said, read the entire thread, i have never doubted or talked bad about no one here. never will.

[waksupi]

everyone i know is amazed at how good i am with a pistol\

i can shoot my initials at 30 feet

As you may have noticed, this is an old crusty group here. Most every one here is older, and have seen the elephant. When someone shows up and immediately comes off with this mall ninja stuff like you did in the original post here, you are going to raise hackles real fast. Nearly every post after that, you again told us all just how good you think you are. I imagine you are probably a teenager, and are a real whiz bang with your group of buddies. Here, you are much better off doing some research through the posts, and learn something. You will find out just how little you know.
Asking questions is fine, but starting out bragging to this bunch is not going to go well for anyone. When we start seeing your name in the winners circles at major shoots, then people may be a bit more willing to listen to it.

[Jkallen83]

everyone i know is amazed at how good i am with a pistol\

i can shoot my initials at 30 feet

As you may have noticed, this is an old crusty group here. Most every one here is older, and have seen the elephant. When someone shows up and immediately comes off with this mall ninja stuff like you did in the original post here, you are going to raise hackles real fast. Nearly every post after that, you again told us all just how good you think you are. I imagine you are probably a teenager, and are a real whiz bang with your group of buddies. Here, you are much better off doing some research through the posts, and learn something. You will find out just how little you know.
Asking questions is fine, but starting out bragging to this bunch is not going to go well for anyone. When we start seeing your name in the winners circles at major shoots, then people may be a bit more willing to listen to it.


first, i am NOT a teenager. been a long time since i been a teenage. been with my wife for 8 years and i was in my 20's when we met. i got my wife into shooting, at first she wants interested but now she loves it. she cant really shoot that great, but she can kinda hit what shes aiming at when she is under 30 feet.

as far as shooting my initials, it was a dare between me and a friend shooting matching pistols since we both were shooting to see who was the better shot...the idea was the first to shoot their initials, its really harder than it looks and no i cant do it anytime i want. it takes alot of practice and many attempts to make it happen.

maybe some of yall shoot 100+ yards for fun when out with friends, i didnt have that much of a range option here so the next best thing is close range fun.

if i knew where there were some shooting competitions around my area of alabama, i definately would love to enter. not to prove anything or show my abilities, but for the fun of it. i love to compete in anything. it gives me an idea of my skills against others and to know what and where i need to improve at.

PLEASE do not bash me. i have not bashed anyone here.

[Jammer Six]

Here in Seattle, we just had a guy killed because a Seattle police officer didn't understand the significance of 21 feet.

He made almost exactly the same mistake you are making.

I don't believe any of your claims to expertise, nor your claims of your age.

Have a nice day.

[Recluse]

first, i am NOT a teenager. been a long time since i been a teenage. been with my wife for 8 years and i was in my 20's when we met. i got my wife into shooting, at first she wants interested but now she loves it. she cant really shoot that great, but she can kinda hit what shes aiming at when she is under 30 feet.

as far as shooting my initials, it was a dare between me and a friend shooting matching pistols since we both were shooting to see who was the better shot...the idea was the first to shoot their initials, its really harder than it looks and no i cant do it anytime i want. it takes alot of practice and many attempts to make it happen.

maybe some of yall shoot 100+ yards for fun when out with friends, i didnt have that much of a range option here so the next best thing is close range fun.

if i knew where there were some shooting competitions around my area of alabama, i definately would love to enter.

:killingpc

If you can't find "some shooting competitions" in your neck of the woods in northern Alabama, you ain't looking real hard. . .

The one thing we don't try to do around here is impress each other with our pinache or skills with a shootin' iron. . . As Waksupi stated, we're older, we've been around, we've seen it, we've done it, we're still alive and we still enjoy our shooting experiences that includes handloading and especially casting boolits.

Nobody here needs to brag about anything and we don't much care for braggarts of any substance.

We've got some shooters here that I'm in absolute awe of. We've got handloaders here that make me look and feel like a romper room brat who just got his first reloading die and don't know which end to screw in the press. We've got boolit casters here that I'm almost afraid to even reply to their posts or PM for advice.

And I've got forty years of shooting, reloading and handloading.

It don't mean nothing.

I also happen to be a pilot and the old retired Air Force and Navy pilots I hang around with. . . we all have something in common.

We're still student pilots, even after all these years. But man oh man do the young, low-hours pilots tell us everything we do wrong up in the air, why we own the wrong kinds of airplanes, how our preferred brands are not the cool thing anymore and in general just how much more we could learn from them if only we would just listen.

Of course, none of them bother to actually find out how many hours we all have in the logbooks, or what we did before we settled into the Cessnas and Pipers and Beechcrafts, etc. Or that two of our crowd have this pale blue ribbon with little white stars on it that cause four-star generals to salute them first. Or that one of our crowd walks with a limp because his leg got blown off flying a dust-off mission in Vietnam in his Huey, and rather than have the corpsmen try to fix him up, he got back in his Huey and flew two more missions. Let got infected and got amputated. His got his Purple Heart right before he got his CMH.

But the youngsters. . . they already know it all and are convinced they're God's gift to aviation. We tolerate some of them, some of them we just tell to go to hell and get out of our hangars. They walk away shaking their heads, not understanding why we're not just overawed with their whopping 250 hours in their log book and their newly minted commercial rating.

Kinda that way here. I've already explained and given you just the tip of the iceberg as to the talent level, experience and accomplishments that reside at Cast Boolits. We get new folks in every once in a while just absolutely convinced that we don't know the base of a boolit from the balls of a bull. And of course, they're all expert shots as well. They end up leaving, muttering on other forums and sites about how "we just don't get it" and why we weren't "impressed with their abilities."

I'm still a student shooter, handloader and boolit caster. I'll wager just about everyone here who's been an active member here for six months or better would classify themselves as students, too.

Probably always wil.

Think about that.

:coffee:

[Mooseman]

I can write my name in the snow....In Longhand !
Does that count ?

[Jkallen83]

this will be my final post on this topic... i dont have to take bashing from anyone here. i never have and never will put down anyone here.....

i have done nothing to anyone here. just asked questions. stated what i can do...i can shoot great at 10 yards which is what i normally shoot, i can hit the target at 25 yards. is that so wrong to say? am i wrong to say, yes i can hit what i aim at? the original question was what distance and what pistol are you using.. is that wrong?

you want facts.....here is some facts....

- i am a good shot. pistols, rifles, shotguns, dont matter.
- i have been shooting ALL my life.
- i am a better shot than most everyone i know. (notice is said most, not all)
- i can shoot my initials with my pistol
- i am 29 years old.
- been with my wife for 8 years.
- strive for perfection in EVERYTHING i do.
- i am college educated.
- i live in north alabama.
- i am a member of many firearms sites.
- i watch videos and read articles VERY frequently learning new things about guns.
- i do my own gunsmithing due to no one around able to do it. i learned most on forums that are friendlier than this one so far that are willing to answer people's questions.
- i am and always have been above and beyond in everything i do because i learns it, practice it, and live everything i do.

there, you now know most everything about me. dont doubt me, because i sure dont doubt none of you. those are all FACTS!!! i sure hope yall are better than me so i can learn something from yall.

so if anyone here has a problem, thats just too bad. like i said, this will be my last reply to this post.

[MikeS]

Hey, don't let the old grumpy members make you go away. Also, some here may be better shots than you, but I bet if you were shooting a more target friendly gun, and slowing down and taking time between shots, that you too can shoot at 25yds or 50yds too. As I said originally, it's all about using the right tool for the job. I don't think anyone would carry an Anchutz target .22 for self defense, nor do I think anyone would use a .38 snub nose revolver for 50yd target shooting. Sure, both CAN be done, but it's a lot easier to use the correct tool for the job.

And another thing, from what you've said, sounds like you're in your 30's, well for several folks here, that's not even half their age, so to them you're still a kid. I'm not quite twice your age, but I'm close, and being disabled, I FEEL 3x your age! (my doc says I'm the youngest 90 year old that he treats! :) )

[Recluse]

My ignore list is getting as big as Michelle Obama's backside.

Where's Backwater Bill at these days? He gave me some job in the COB club and I can't remember what it is.

:coffee:

[fredj338]

but i see people saying they are shooting at 25 YARDS with pistols. thats 75 feet. REALLY?!?!?! are yall really shooting at 25 yards? i hear people saying they are shooting 2-3" groups at 25 yards...maybe yall have longer barreled pistols but my 3" barrels just wont group 2" at 25 yards, id be lucky to hit a sheet of paper that distance with MY pistols.

so just wondering if yall actually mean FEET or are truly shooting 25 yards.. if you are shooting at that distance, why type pistols are you shooting???

so what distance are you TRULY shooting at? what is your TRUE groupings? .
Well, right from the beginning you imply those that claim 2"-3" groups @ 25yds are somehow not really shooting 75ft. Then:
see now by reading these responses, im getting REAL answers. most are shooting about a 6" grouping at 25 yards. i can do that. my problem was reading about 2-3" groupings at 25+yards. now people are talking about target pistols, hunting pistols, and long barreled pistols, thats all different to what im shooting. im shooting self defense pistols.
You are still doubting. So it's the attitude that has gotten guys that can to respond that it's not only possible but readily done. Try a better pistol than a Hipoint, that will improve your shooting about 100%. A HiPoint is barely a useable gun @ 21ft.[smilie=1:

[mpmarty]

Bye bye Jkallen. You have at least been entertaining.

[Dave C.]

Jkallen83 ,

If you ever get up to my neck of the woods please shoot a Bullseye match with
us as I could use the pointers.

Dave C.

[Hang Fire]

Had a Hi Standard Super-Matic Trophy that from a rest could shoot 4" groups at 100 yards. Gave it to the son-in-law who is an excellent shot and it is the only gun he uses on picket pins in WY.

[Longwood]

Had a Hi Standard Super-Matic Trophy that from a rest could shoot 4" groups at 100 yards. Gave it to the son-in-law who is an excellent shot and it is the only gun he uses on picket pins in WY.

I used to own a 5 1/2" barrelled and a 7 1/4" barrelled Smith and Wesson model 41 that were amazingly accurate.
My buddy bought a Hi Standard Super Citation, then a Hi Standard Victor, then a Hi Standard Victor X10.
Other friends had a Smith and Wesson model 46 which was a Airforce model of the 41 and Ruger target models.
A bottle at 100 yards did not stand there long. All of us could easily hit 5 out of ten "Off-hand" and on a good day do even better.
I had a Thompson contender and at 100 yards, the two 22 barrels I had would put target ammo into a 1" red dot all day long from a rest. I made many 1/2" groups with it.
I amazed a lot of people with some very expensive varmint rifles with that Thompson.

[Floydster]

I can shoot 1" groups with my Hi Point c9 at 25 yards all day long, with my cap on backwards standing on one leg---off hand.

[Jammer Six]

I've always wondered why folks wear their cap backwards.

[Bret4207]

this will be my final post on this topic... i dont have to take bashing from anyone here. i never have and never will put down anyone here.....

i have done nothing to anyone here. just asked questions. stated what i can do...i can shoot great at 10 yards which is what i normally shoot, i can hit the target at 25 yards. is that so wrong to say? am i wrong to say, yes i can hit what i aim at? the original question was what distance and what pistol are you using.. is that wrong?

you want facts.....here is some facts....

- i am a good shot. pistols, rifles, shotguns, dont matter.
- i have been shooting ALL my life.
- i am a better shot than most everyone i know. (notice is said most, not all)
- i can shoot my initials with my pistol
- i am 29 years old.
- been with my wife for 8 years.
- strive for perfection in EVERYTHING i do.
- i am college educated.
- i live in north alabama.
- i am a member of many firearms sites.
- i watch videos and read articles VERY frequently learning new things about guns.
- i do my own gunsmithing due to no one around able to do it. i learned most on forums that are friendlier than this one so far that are willing to answer people's questions.
- i am and always have been above and beyond in everything i do because i learns it, practice it, and live everything i do.

there, you now know most everything about me. dont doubt me, because i sure dont doubt none of you. those are all FACTS!!! i sure hope yall are better than me so i can learn something from yall.

so if anyone here has a problem, thats just too bad. like i said, this will be my last reply to this post.

Look, if you are still reading this then take my advice please. You would be more than welcome here, but only if you can drop the ego and stop telling everyone how freakin' GOOD you are. Just stop it, because first off it doesn't matter, secondly it makes you look like a 17 year old mall ninja gangsta wannabe and 3rdly because no one cares and no one is going to believe you are any better than anyone else until we get to know you, trust you and until we see groups, preferably witnessed groups, that are something above the average.

I hope you stay on here, but attitudes of "I am just sooooo good" aren't considered good form here or most anywhere else. Plus, we have professional gunsmiths, college professors, lawyers, ministers, engineers, actual rocket scientists, businessmen, ranchers, cowboys, farmers, airplane pilots, loggers, machinists, physiologists, MD's, dentists, pharmacists, people who have been in numerous shoot outs, auto technicians, teachers and a whole heck of lot of retired guys who have more miles under their belt on the krapper than you and your buds have breathing. So college, initials, being a member at some websites means so very little as to be completely irrelevant. Just back off, slow down, sit back and listen a little and try and fit in. This is a group of some of the finest people I've ever dealt with, so reach down inside yourself, find your humility and start over. I'm sure you'll be welcomed once you figure out we don't care what you say, but rather how you say it.

[Jammer Six]

Carpenters. You left out carpenters.

[onceabull]

What about our ShortSellers & Commodity traders ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? Onceabull

[Recluse]

Carpenters. You left out carpenters.

Bret, you also left out Loob Groove re-sellers.

Boy, is Ric gonna be whizzed. . .

:coffee:

[Jammer Six]

Bret, you also left out Loob Groove re-sellers.

I assumed the OP had that covered. He can write his initials in lube grooves.

[TNFrank]

The regional Bullseye matches held in June here in Indiana are shot at 25 and 50 yards.

I've watched a shooter put 5 rounds in the x ring at 50 yards one handed, bulleye fashion. Remember the x ring is under 2 inches.

Ditto, guys use to come into Caswell's Shooting Range in Mesa,AZ. when I worked there and do just that on our Bullseye Night. You'd be surprised at just how accurate a tricked out 1911a1 is at 25 yards with the right ammo and a dead steady hold.

[Bret4207]

Bret, you also left out Loob Groove re-sellers.

Boy, is Ric gonna be whizzed. . .

:coffee:

You guys are such little Suzies. (Sigh...) Okay, Loob Groove sellers, Love Gods from the cellar, carpenters, carpenter ants, shortsellers and shot sellers, commodity traders and Constitutional traitors. We also have sheep farmers, beekeepers, dog lovers and cat haters. Catholics, Jews, Baptists, Methodists, Mormons, Agnostics, Gnostics, a couple of gnomes, believers, deniers, disco kings and at least one dancehall floozy (sorry Al). We have Paulites, Romneyites, Santoriums, a sanitorium, a grinch, some Gingrichesssss, sailors, soldiers, airmen (okay, they aren't really MEN, but I'll give them a break this time), Coasties and Marines. Republicrats, Democans, Libertarians, and libertards, Conservatives and conservatives, a whole mess'a Tea Party types that won't drink tea at all unless you spike it and at least one, poor, misguided Occupier. We got riflemen, handgunners, shotgunners, hunters, trappers, fisher-persons, firemen, emt's, cops, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers. But ya doesn't haff ta call me JOHNSON!

Who did I miss?

Oh yeah, and we gots a few ladies.

[Jammer Six]

I want to find out more about becoming a Love God.

[BruceB]

....AND a gold miner (NOT a "gold-digger"; that's a different career path...)

[waksupi]

Bret, you also left out Loob Groove re-sellers.

Boy, is Ric gonna be whizzed. . .

:coffee:


I beg your pardon, I only sell factory fresh loob grooves!

[starreloader]

Bret, you are on a roll this evening.... did you forget anyone?

[oneokie]

Bret, you are on a roll this evening.... did you forget anyone?

Yeah, he forgot Farmers, Ranchers, Windmill mechanics, wild bull riders, farriers, and blacksmiths.

[Jammer Six]

And buggy whip weavers. Don't forget the buggy whip weavers.

[mpmarty]

Bret, you are on a roll this evening.... did you forget anyone?

ME! I'm a reseller too. My brother-in-law runs a well drilling outfit and once in a while he comes up with a dry hole. I sell those dry holes in sections for instant post holes.:kidding:

[MikeS]

I've always wondered why folks wear their cap backwards.

I don't know if there's ANY truth to it, but one story I heard a long time ago about wearing caps backwards goes like this:

At some point the NYC police dept. went from wearing the classic 'police cap' with it's little bill to wearing baseball style caps with a full length bill on it. Up in the Bronx which is/was/probably always will be a BAD neighborhood a cop was chasing a perp down a back alley when a second perp who was waiting on a fire escape shot the cop in the head right thru the cap. It was said that the reason the cop didn't see the second bad guy was because of the hats bill, and so that precinct got a special dispensation to being able to wear their hats backwards. Supposedly the badguys also started to wear their hats that way, either to mock the police, or who knows why. and of course like everything else, the 'bad guys' or 'punks' went from wearing them backwards to sideways, etc.

Again, I don't know the truth to it, but I was told that the urban 'style' of wearing their pants below their butts with their underwear exposed also started in a similar way. Cops were chasing somebody in the 'hood', cop had shot the guy in the arm, and so he couldn't pull up his pants that had fallen down during the chase, and when it was overheard on the radio that his pants were flying at half mast that all the 'thugs' in the hood pulled down their pants to match the perps, just to make identification of the guy that much harder.

Those stories might be true, but I don't know for sure, and they do sound kind of on the tall side.

[stubshaft]

I beg your pardon, I only sell factory fresh loob grooves!


Which are always on backorder!:bigsmyl2:

[waksupi]

Which are always on backorder!:bigsmyl2:


What's your point? [smilie=s:

[Bret4207]

Yeah, he forgot Farmers, Ranchers, Windmill mechanics, wild bull riders, farriers, and blacksmiths.

Got farmers and ranchers in post 97. I plea guilty on the rest!:killingpc

[44man]

What's your point? [smilie=s:
Very good point! :drinks: I was planning an order so would you mind letting me know when you have a new supply? 8-)
I also like them to be pre-lubed!

[Boerrancher]

Ric,

Since the subject of lube groves came up, I was wondering if you had any in stock that would fit a 50 cal round ball? I just don't think my patches are carrying enough lube, and if I soak them too much they will contaminate the powder. If I had a lube grove to put on the round ball, I could get away with less lube on the patch. If you don't happen to have any available at this time that will fit my 495 round ball, just shoot me a PM when you do.

Thank you in advance and look forward to your PM.

Best wishes,

Joe

[waksupi]

Ric,

Since the subject of lube groves came up, I was wondering if you had any in stock that would fit a 50 cal round ball? I just don't think my patches are carrying enough lube, and if I soak them too much they will contaminate the powder. If I had a lube grove to put on the round ball, I could get away with less lube on the patch. If you don't happen to have any available at this time that will fit my 495 round ball, just shoot me a PM when you do.

Thank you in advance and look forward to your PM.

Best wishes,

Joe

Joe, after extensive testing, it has been shown that a loob groove installed on a round ball, invariably causes key holing.
You are welcome to do further investigation on this. Let me know if you would like to be put on the back order list.

44man, you are in luck I DO have lube in stock. Unfortunately, you must use the proper LOOB wit this product.

[Jammer Six]

I've never understood folks who carry .50 cal Desert Eagle Lube Grooves.

For the weight, wouldn't they be better off with a rifle lube groove under virtually all circumstances?

[MikeS]

Saying that adding a loob groove to a round ball will make it keyhole, does that apply to round balls seated into pistol brass, and shot with smokeless powder, or is that only for front stuffers? Will they still keyhole if you bought an extra loob groove, and put 2 of them on? Maybe if you put 2 on, but in an X orientation, rather than one behind the other would stop the keyholing? :)

[Jammer Six]

What about hollow point lube grooves?

And, once and for all, would you carry a .45 lube groove or a 9 at a higher velocity?

[44man]

Are the grooves caliber specific or can they be wrapped and cut to fit? :bigsmyl2:
I have seen keyholes with RB's too so maybe a proper fit groove would correct it. :veryconfu
Now that I have spit out my coffee again and laughed to tears, why doesn't someone publish a joke book from all the posts? [smilie=w:

[Boerrancher]

Thanks for the info on the Keyholeing round ball Ric. I think I will wait on the grooves especially since there is a back order. I am getting by with what I am doing. When you get caught up though, if I haven't given up on the idea completely or come up with something that I think may work. I will contact you. It is a shame that the RB's Keyhole with the groove installed. Oh well thanks for the info Rick.

Best wishes,

Joe

[nanuk]

on another forum, some has taken Waksupi's idea of selling lube grooves to a new level.

they made a neat little tool that holds 100 lube grooves ( 30 Caliber ) that fits neatly into your pocket.

A little Pricey at $100 USD each, but I bought two anyways.... figured I'd sell one here if anyone wants to try it.

Cause it is such a good idea, I'll offer one to Waksupi for half price so he can perhaps produce them enmasse to sell with his lube grooves.

[Jammer Six]

I'm only interested if they are truly original milspec grooves. Complete with groove bite.

[Harter66]

For the op I've a very old 4" S&W 38 that was carried by a Kern Co Ca constable in the 50s(qualifier),I have shot many 4" off hand 25 yard groups w/it . I also have an LE trade in High Power clone 3" 9mm that has often shot 6" and less w/125gr TCs,150 grSWC,147JHP,125JHP,115FMJ all at 32 yd off hand,2 hand,even weak side although those open to 8-10".

[KYCaster]

Are the grooves caliber specific or can they be wrapped and cut to fit? :bigsmyl2:
I have seen keyholes with RB's too so maybe a proper fit groove would correct it. :veryconfu
Now that I have spit out my coffee again and laughed to tears, why doesn't someone publish a joke book from all the posts? [smilie=w:


The book has already been done. (it may be available on Castpix???)

The "Loob Groove" joke is #9............or maybe #6..........please cut me some slack cause I have a severe case of Lesdixia. It causes me no end of embarrassment and ridicule, especially when I confuse the signs on the doors....you know, MEN/WOMEN.

To keep this on topic..........To the OP.......keep up the good work!!

#8 [smilie=l:


Jerry

[Joe216]

lmao, looks like im a bit late to the party. That was quite entertainig what happened to Falken?

I know now Im in the right place and humbled to be apart of such a good group.

-Joe

[44man]

The book has already been done. (it may be available on Castpix???)

The "Loob Groove" joke is #9............or maybe #6..........please cut me some slack cause I have a severe case of Lesdixia. It causes me no end of embarrassment and ridicule, especially when I confuse the signs on the doors....you know, MEN/WOMEN.

To keep this on topic..........To the OP.......keep up the good work!!

#8 [smilie=l:

Jerry
You can't fool me, you mix up men and woman hoping to sneak a peek! :bigsmyl2: [smilie=w:
Two old women were discussing sex and one asked how she could keep her husband from pestering her. The other says, "take your clothes off!"

[Jammer Six]

I'm having trouble with my lube groove following.

[44man]

I'm having trouble with my lube groove following.
Pay attention---my wife has loob grooves all over her body! :drinks:

[waksupi]

Pay attention---my wife has loob grooves all over her body! :drinks:

Ewwwwwww.......

[44man]

Ewwwwwww.......
Oh nuts, I cracked up!

[Jammer Six]

I don't really need to follow the manual with my lube grooves, do I?

And how old were you guys when you noticed you had developed your first lube groove?