Shiny Boolits

[skeeter2]

Is it harder to get nice shiny Boolits from a Lee TL mold. I have been casting up a storm the past couple days. I cast Ranch Dog 44 265 gr GC, Lee 158 gr 357 RN and Lee 45 230 gr SWC. I couldn't get any of them to come out shiny and I was really watching the temp. I cast Ranch Dog 380 Boolits, Lee 125 gr 357, Lee 98 gr 32 cal, Lee 158 gr SWC, Lee 44cal 200gr. All the rest came out shiny. The smaller Boolits come out nicer. It must be something with the heat. I used the same alloy for all. It's reclaimed range lead and I air cooled them all.

[jdgabbard]

Skeeter, I usually go for a boolit that is slightly frosted. Shiny usually doesn't mean much to me other than the mold is slightly under temp. The shiny ones are usually due to a lower heat in mold temp. Problems could arise from molds that are not properly heated, including: fillout and undersized boolits. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about shiny, but rather fillout and correct size.

[Chicken Thief]

Who's gonna notice shiny at 1100fps?

[Cherokee]

I like shiney boolits too but go for fill out and quality first. Adding some tin to the alloy mix could get you shiney boolits but that does not improve their performance and you have increased your cost with the tin.

[Recluse]

Skeeter, I usually go for a boolit that is slightly frosted. Shiny usually doesn't mean much to me other than the mold is slightly under temp. The shiny ones are usually due to a lower heat in mold temp. Problems could arise from molds that are not properly heated, including: fillout and undersized boolits. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about shiny, but rather fillout and correct size.

+1

A slightly frosty boolit will hold the (tumble) lube a bit better, in my opinion. I throw in a pinch extra of tin when casting TL boolits to help with the fillout.

Also agree with "who's going to see a shiny boolit at 1100fps?"

:coffee:

[ButterNutZ]

skeeter I get the shiny boolits man, let me know when you get it figured out.

[mooman76]

It's hard to get shiny bullets with Lee moulds. Very narrow margin between hot enough and too hot. I agree with the other and gave up trying a long time ago.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you take a paper towel and rub on them just a little they will come out very shiney. The fosting just rubs off.

If you get the moulds hot enough to fillout well, most all of them will make frosted boolits, some moulds will work well at lower temps but the longer and skinnier a boolit is the hotter you will have to run the mould to get complete fillout. Especially true of aluminum moulds for long skinny boolits, which do not have as much mass to hold heat as a brass or steel mould.

Randy

[jabilli]

I've noticed with my Lee molds that if I just plop them on a dry towel they are shiny, yet when I drop em in a bucket o water they're at least dull. Shrug. Be sure to put a towel or something soft at the bottom if you quench, I've noticed the bullets can warp from the impact I assume before they totally cool.

[cajun shooter]

lt has to do with mould temperature. I disagree with the answer given that a shiny bullet is dropped too cold and at an incorrect temperature. In fact they are dead on and everything is working in the sweet spot.
I've never been able to achieve that goal while using the aluminum moulds from Lee as they are a either too cold or too hot.
The frosty bullet is fine for shooting and much better than those that were dropped too cold as they will have voids and wrinkles all over the bullet.
So if you have too it's better to have the frosty ones.
A custom built mould from some one like Tom at Accurate or Dave Farmer at Hoch Moulds will build a mould that produces that bullet that you are after. It will how ever lead to a higher cost which like everything else in life works almost the same way.
If you buy a tool from Harbour Freight and one from Snap on you will have one that is good for ever and one that will work but may quit at any time. Later David

[Boerrancher]

I have been casting for over almost 35 years now and have always tried for frosted boolits. I was taught by an old timer back in the mid to late 70's about casting, and he liked the frosted boolits. His rational was that frosted boolits are more consistent in size and weight than ones that were shiny. I have noticed over the years that his advice seems to hold up. I know that frosted isn't as pretty as shiny, but a 3/4 inch 5 shot group at 100 yards is prettier than a 3 or 4 inch group at the same distance, but the choice is yours, you are the one that has to live with the final results.

Best wishes,

Joe

[skeeter2]

Well I was really in the sweet spot with my Lee molds. By air cooling you can keep an eye on temp. If they get a little frosty I waited a bit and turned he temp down. I got really shiny bullets in 380, two different 32 mag, two different 357 and a 44 mag. Only one of the 32 was tumble lube. I added some lead free solder and I got good fill out with nice sharp lube grooves. I have yet to size any yet. I thought my alloy was dirty. I fluxed several times with no avail. Thanks for all the replies.

[joken]

If you want shiney wipe them with a damp rag and mineral spirits after the load is complete.

[mdi]

It's hard to get shiny bullets with Lee moulds. Very narrow margin between hot enough and too hot. I agree with the other and gave up trying a long time ago.
Yep, it can take a bit of fiddling with the temp to get shiny bullets out of an aluminum mold, just a few degrees wil make the difference. My Ranch Dog mold will drop boolits with a shiny nose section, but the body and base will be slightly frosted. Don't matter much to me though.

The reason shiny boolits are wanted is you can see the sun reflecting off the shiny boolit as it flys down range...[smilie=1:

[MtGun44]

Shiny is much over rated. Most of mine are moderately to very frosty.

Bill

[montana_charlie]

skeeter I get the shiny boolits man, let me know when you get it figured out.
Me too, skeeter.

When using heat to manipulate a metal, there is an optimum temperature for everything you want the metal to do.
It's true with lead, too, and shiny bullets are the indicators that you have found the optimum ratio of mould and alloy temperatures.

CM

[geargnasher]

Well I was really in the sweet spot with my Lee molds. By air cooling you can keep an eye on temp. If they get a little frosty I waited a bit and turned he temp down. I got really shiny bullets in 380, two different 32 mag, two different 357 and a 44 mag. Only one of the 32 was tumble lube. I added some lead free solder and I got good fill out with nice sharp lube grooves. I have yet to size any yet. I thought my alloy was dirty. I fluxed several times with no avail. Thanks for all the replies.

No, that's not it about pot temperature, common misconception. Truth is, whether a boolit is shiny or frosty is entirely a function of the antimony content of the alloy combined with the temperature of the mould, not the temperature of the alloy you pour into it.

Take an alloy of clip-on wheel weights, maybe with a pinch of tin added. Heat the alloy to 800 degrees, and start casting with a 200 degree mould of any material. You will get shiny, wrinkled boolits with rounded edges and general poor fillout. They will probably be underrized. Now cool the alloy to 650 degrees and heat your mould to 420 and start casting. The boolits will be nicely frosted, and a twist of a rag will leave them shiny. Let the mould get to 480 and the boolits will be so heavily frosted, pitted, undersized, and sandblasted-looking that they won't be shootable, and with an alloy that's only about 75 degrees hotter than full-liquidus. It's all about controlling the mould temperature.

If you're getting frosty boolits and want them to be shiny, slow your casting rhythm until the mould cools down enough to make shiny ones, and when you get there, level out the pace to keep the mould at that temperature.

Personally, I prefer a light, satin frost on my WW-ish alloy boolits because it's easier and faster for me to make them than it is to make perfect, shiny boolits. I investigated this phenom several times with different alloys and mould materials and came to this conclusion (for me): There is about a 10-15 degree mould temperature window for fully-filled, shiny boolits with most moulds, I'm not sure the Lee alloy is capable of this unless you use Lyman #2 alloy or proper Linotype. In any case, I really need to add at least 1% tin and use a ladle to get them just right, and it's slow because the mould wants to get hotter and the edges start frosting and rounding. Now, if I go for the light satin frost, the mould temperature window for consistent boolits is about 25-30 degrees, and about 50-100 degrees higher. MUCH easier to maintain, and it actually makes me hustle to keep most moulds hot enough, especially when keeping the alloy about 100 degrees above full-liquidus temp (cooler than most people seem to be running). That's just the way I do it, over time I've learned how to do it all different ways, but like most people, have settled on what works best for me.

If you can make consistent, shiny boolits, by all means do so!

Gear

[skeeter2]

Gear,

Your post is very helpful. I think by turning down the pot temp you are able to keep your mold from heating up too much. Thus turning your temp down does indirectly help with frosty bullets. Your observations helped me form my thoughts. Smaller bullets are easier to cast shiny as there is more mass to the mold and less really hot molten metal. Thus it is easier to keep your mold at a constant temp. The six cavity heat up quicker with larger bullet calibers. They also don't cool as quickly. I would say I have a harder time making shiny bullets with a six cavity mold.

[Larry Gibson]

"I used the same alloy for all. It's reclaimed range lead "

The problem is too high an antimonal content with not enough tin.

+1 on; "Truth is, whether a boolit is shiny or frosty is entirely a function of the antimony content of the alloy combined with the temperature of the mould, not the temperature of the alloy you pour into it."

As mentioned the necessity for shiney bullets is over rated.

Larry Gibson

[Wayne Smith]

As mentioned the necessity for shiney bullets is over rated.

Larry Gibson

Oh, I don't know, Larry. I use a sticky, soft lube so I clean every cartridge with a wipe or two of a paper shop cloth, all my boolits end up shiny! At least the part above the brass. Overrated, yeah, but easy to accomplish, just in a different way.

[prs]

I know Gear is correct about the importance of mould temp beyond that of alloy in the pot temp, but in practice is sure is easier to keep your mold temp up enough to get good frosty hot boolits if your alloy is up around 700F or plus a tad. I also know its a sin to oxidize your SN, but running a couple of 6 cavity moulds out of a little 20# pot is not really gonna leave the alloy much time to oxidize the tin. I like the looks of frosty boolits, I lke how the tumble lube clings to that surface, I like how the boolits come out at such consistent size and weight when frosted.

prs

[Rocky Raab]

I don't care if it's shiny or dull,
As long as "et" begins with bull...

:kidding:

[MikeS]

I found when I was casting with WW lead that the boolits were either shiny, or frosted, with nothing in between. Since I've gone to casting Lyman #2 I find that there's an area between shiny & frosty, and I guess it could be called a satin finish. That's where I like my boolits to be. Not shiny, or frosty, but a nice satin finish, and I find that using Lyman #2 alloy it's easy to get that satin finish by casting with the pot at 650F degrees, or right around there. When you start casting much higher than that it makes the satin stage get much smaller, just like it is with wheel weights. I have only one mould that due to it's design is hard to release from the mould, that I have trouble keeping the mould hot enough, as it's an aluminum mould, and it cools off too much while trying to get the boolits to drop. Other than that one mould (and it's NOT a Lee mould), I don't have any problem getting satiny boolits from any of the other 30 moulds I own.

[geargnasher]

Indeed, MikeS, Lyman #2 is some good casting stuff. It had better be considering the expense!

I get what I call satin boolits with WW metal and just about any mould, the key is to use as cool an alloy as possible and a hot mould. Really, I cast on the ragged edge of going shiny in places, or the bottom of the "frosty" spectrum of mould temp.

What gets me is the aluminum moulds. It seems that there is a really bad spot in between shiny and frosty where the boolits are shiny in places, but all the sharp edges are heavily frosted, pitted, and poorly filled. Once the heat increases some and evens out, the whole boolit is uniformly satin.

Gear

[MikeS]

Well, while Lyman #2 might be considered expensive compared to other lead alloys (such as wheel weights), it's still a whole lot cheaper than buying bullets at the store! Considering how hard it is to get wheel weights around here (not even counting the expense of burning gasoline while trying to find them), it's actually easier to get pure lead, and linotype, and tin, and mix up the Lyman #2 like alloy I use. I still have a few of the bricks of pure lead I was selling here a while back, along with what I originally thought was stereotype, but turned out to be closer to linotype, as well as some 50/50 tin/lead (or is it lead/tin?) that I use.

What I really miss is having my own shooting range. When I lived in upstate NY years ago my family had some land that had an old house way back in the woods (the driveway was about 1/2 mile long), we made it into a hunting lodge, and we built a shooting range next to it. If I still had that, I could mine it, and keep reusing the same lead over and over!

Back on topic, I find that even with pre-heating the moulds it takes a couple of pours before the mould gets to the right temp. If I heat it more initially the first pours are way to frosty, or if not enough, then I get shiny boolits to start, then they go to being satiny. I don't know if it's my eyes going bad on me, or what, but I find that sometimes I'll start casting, and the boolits look about right, but after a few more pours I'll notice the boolits just sort of suddenly start looking right. Normally when that happens I'll just throw the first few back in the pot and redo them. That's one thing I really like about casting my own boolits, if I find bad ones they can just go back in the pot, and the only thing lost is the few seconds it took to cast them!