Herco - any downsides?

[shooting on a shoestring]

I saw an 8# jug of Herco for $78 and I'm thinking of buying it this weekend. I'm just wondering why its cheaper than 2400 8# $109, Bullseye 8# $99, or Unique 8# $110. I had a pound floating around in my misc. inventory, so this afternoon I loaded some .38s, .357 and some 30/30. I think I'll go shoot tomorrow morning and see how Herco does in these calibers. I have loaded it for .45 Colt and have been pleased with it. Does anyone have see any downsides to shooting Herco?

[felix]

Herco, in general, prefers more pressure to burn clean. The only proof you need is in how the target looks. They could have reformulated the batch you have, so this so-called problem I've had in years gone by just might be a bunch of bunk today. ... felix

[dubber123]

Minimal experience with Herco, but it's all been good. I have recently used it in a 32-20 Marlin, and got exceptional groups. It did seem a little sooty, but I definately wasn't pushing the pressures. I have some loaded warmer, and I bet it will cure the dirtiness.

[gasboffer]

I've used it in .357 with RCBS 200 gr. 9.0 gr. Herco. In a TC the bullet was seated way out in the case, still not reaching the lands. Accuracy was so-so, not sure if it was the load or the long throat on the TC. In a Ruger Blackhawk, I trimmed the case till I could crimp on the front band so it would fit in the cylinder. Accuracy was also so-so, but that may be all the Ruger is capable of.
Clyde

[sundog]

Herco works good in bottle neck rifle cases like a slow Unique. I've used it in 30-30/.32Spl, 30-06, 6.5x55, others. If it was all I had I could figure a way to make it work in alot of stuff. Like I said, a slow Unique (and that works in almost everything). At $10/lb, well, if I had handy cash, I would jump on it. But then again, I'm not payin' your bills. At worst, you could use it for fire forming cases. sundog

[9.3X62AL]

I use Herco A LOT in 12 gauge 1-1/4 oz high velocity shotshells, and in medium loads in magnum revolvers. 9.0 grain of Herco with 210 grain SWC's in the 41 Magnum does very well for a buddy and I in our 41's--a pretty good duplicator of the lead bullet/police 41 Mag load, about 950 FPS in his 4" M-57. The same powder weight in 44 Magnum with Lyman #429421 gives about 875 FPS, which is an all-day load in the Redhawk.

[MT Gianni]

I have used it for midrange pistol loads. I seem to remember someone saying it was position sensitive but never experimenteted further as my loads were not target quality more minute of paperplate. Gianni.

[BruceB]

Back in the '70s, when manuals were a little bolder than the current ones, Speer quoted a Herco load for 9mm Parabellum with their then-new 125 RNSP.

7.0 grains drove the 125 at 1330 fps from a 4" model 39 S&W! Compare that to the much-touted .357/125 loads, and you'll see that a 14-shot Browning had the SAME energy content as TWO 4" .357 revolvers, plus a couple spare rounds. I tried this load and bullet in my Browning Hi-Power, and with its 4.625" barrel, the load chronographed almost 1400 fps. Primer pockets stayed tight and brass was at least good for one more loading, if not more. Seven grains of Herco filled my 9mm brass right to the brim! You might say that the load was "compressed"...

What I really like about Herco is that it doesn't have the tendency toward leading that Unique displays on occasion. That same Browning 9mm leaded BADLY with Unique, but equivalent-speed loads with Herco left the barrel free of lead. Perhaps later batches of Unique don't have that tendency, but it sure was apparent in those old glory days. I don't use much of either powder these days, but I have been thinking about doing some exploratory rifle work with Herco and cast bullets to see what happens.

Downsides? None, except the limited data available for our main interest.

[leftiye]

I once made a load for a .38 Super using Herco. I can't remember what bullet or charge was in it. Too long ago. What I do remember is that It was WAY above the maximums in any of the books. You're saying " Any idiot can do that." Not quite.

I miked brass from a bunch of various full house loads to see what expansion that particular brass got at those pressures. Then I'd fire a cartridge, and mike it to confirm that it wasn't stretching things too much. If one seemed safe, I'd load a few more and mike them. I worked up one tenth of a grain at a time. What was interesting is that there came a point (charge) when pressure signs started decreasing! Damn hot load. I stopped using it because it would have beat h*!! out of a fine gun in no time. Threw cases over my shoulder 20 feet! That was when I was young and foolish.

[birdhunters]

Years ago I used Herco to load 12ga 1 1/4 oz . Dirtiest dadgum stuff I ever stuck into a firearm. Haven't used it in years so the formula may have changed some, but from the looks of the other posts it doesn't appear so.










i

[S.R.Custom]

Herco is a much misunderstood (and maligned) powder that few people know works best as a heavy --but not magnum-- powder in the magnum caliber revolvers. Nine grains of Herco under a 240 gr bullet in the .44M offers about the same performance as 14-15 grs of 2400 with much better accuracy. And 8.5 grs with the same bullet in the .44 special is just phenomenally accurate yet still giving 1,000 fps.

[Lloyd Smale]

its one of my favorite powders especially in the .44s and 45colt. Its more often then not the most accurate powder in those calibers if a guy wants 1000 fps loading with 250 grain bullets. That price is a steal!!!! If it was within a 100 miles of me id be racing you to get it. Like was said its slightly dirtier then unique but ive never worried about a powder being a little dirty. Its surely no big deal to clean a gun. Herco is an old powder that has about been forgotten and absolultly shouldnt be and will as long as its made have a place on my shelf.

[Bass Ackward]

What makes any powder good or bad, clean or dirty depends more on what you want to burn it in and under what pressure you want to burn it. Herco isn't a magnum pistol powder.

When you look at powder burn rate chart you will see very little difference between Unique and Herco. But I find Herco to be clearly superior to Unique for PB applications. Especially if you think you might ever want to use a rapid fire mode for any purpose. Simple, it is using some of the carbon residue as lube.

If I have a GC design, then I use the cleaner burning Unique.

[trk]

What about using Hero in rifles? ( 268gr and 310gr bullets in .375 win and H&H)

Would it be better or worse than 2400 or Unique?

[felix]

Personally, if the powder is cheap and within the burn range I am looking for, I will buy it. I have always found a use for every power on the shelf, sooner or later. The only regret is not buying enough of one is when the getting was good. Like N120 as the latest example. Corky and I got three jugs of it when it was 80 bucks per jug. Should have been 10 jugs. ... felix

[Lloyd Smale]

same with pr200 felix. IVe got 5 jugs squirelled away but should have 15!

[Shiloh]

A friend used it in the .45 Colt. It was a little dirty, didn't meter all that great, but gave good accurate results.

Shiloh

[drinks]

I have been using it in 20ga and .44-40 since the 60's, lately in .445 SM and .45-70 for light target loads, even tried it in .223 with cast 52gr bullets.
I believe I could use it in most cases, one way or another, just bought 5# jug.

[9.3X62AL]

I for one--am stymied and confused by the frequent allegations of "dirty powder" that get heaped on the shoulders of Unique--Herco--WC 860--even Bullseye. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Hoppe's #9 and Break-Free CLP were designed as counter-measures for such occurrences. I admit freely to being accused of retrograde thinking and obsolescence with some frequency--my daughters and their husbands and boyfriends DO shoot and hunt--but, DAMN--you CAN clean the gun. Once in a while, at least.

[woody1]

I for one--am stymied and confused by the frequent allegations of "dirty powder" that get heaped on the shoulders of Unique--Herco--WC 860--even Bullseye. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought Hoppe's #9 and Break-Free CLP were designed as counter-measures for such occurrences. I admit freely to being accused of retrograde thinking and obsolescence with some frequency--my daughters and their husbands and boyfriends DO shoot and hunt--but, DAMN--you CAN clean the gun. Once in a while, at least.

AMEN! I'd like to have some of that $10 dirty old Herco. Good for real light loads in .410 shotgun on up thru anything I shoot....shotgun, rifle,handgun.....almost. In the right loads. Regards, Woody

[grumpy one]

Hmm. When you've been shooting say Varget, then use a bunch of H4831, it certainly changes the character of the bore-cleaning process. Sure, Ed's Red will cut through either one, but what was a relaxed few swipes to get rid of the Varget turns into an unpleasant job with H4831. A wet nylon brush will barely go through the bore, then the patches come out looking like they've been in a tar pit for a few years. After a few minutes things settle down of course, but the early stage is a bit of a struggle.

I use H4831 where it gives superior accuracy, which it sometimes does, but I'm thinking about the cleaning chore when I'm shooting the stuff.

[shooting on a shoestring]

I got to do some chronographing today, I couldn't do any bench resting, but the chrono results are appealing. My test method was to fire 5 shot strings, level muzzle, 5 shots muzzle up before firing, 5 shots muzzle down before firing. I was most interested in the SDEV for the level muzzle, and the difference in mean between muzzle up and down. I used 358156, no gas checks for all .357 loads, and fired all through an SP101 2.25". Here's a smattering of the data.

.357 loads, velocities level (SDEV), muzzle up, muzzle down, difference up-dn

Bullseye 6.0 gr, 1023(7),1054,1007,52
Herco 7.3 gr, 1050(17), 1043,998,45
Power Pistol 7.5 gr 1084(7), 1109, 1052,57
Blue Dot 9.5 gr (1036(16), 1099, 991, 108
AA#7 10.5 gr (1091(14), 1138, 994, 144
Lil'Gun 17.0 gr 1032(34)1005, 1057, -52
Yep Lil'Gun was slower w/powder next to primer

.38 loads, fired in .357 SP101
Lee TL158 SWC LLA
Red Dot 4.0 gr 786(22), 796, 746, 50
Herco 5.0 gr 805(23), 832, 783, 49

Lee 140 SWC
Red Dot 4.0 gr 804(19), 863, 731, 132
Herco 5.0 gr 804(13), 854, 747, 107

Also fired 10.0 gr Herco in M94 30/30 Lee 150 RF no gas check, not sized
10 shots 1483, sdev 17, 100 yds 7 shots in 4.5", the other 3 made it a 7" group.
compared to last week:
10.0 gr Unique, 10 shots 1474, sdev 16, 100 yds 6" group.

Looks good enough for me to go buy a bigger jug tomorrow.

I did notice it did leave more soot than the other powders, but I don't care b/c I clean my guns after every shooting session.