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Lloyd Smale
01-20-2012, 05:59 AM
Ive read that the dry beans you get at the store make decent seed. Will they grow properly up north and will freezing the beans hurt them as seed?

Bane
01-20-2012, 06:35 AM
Running off the memories of my horticultural classes back in school, you can freeze them, but it has a high chance of rendering a large portion of the beans unable to grow.. basically they'll store longer than dried & packed beans, but you have a higher chance of getting duds, and you may find a large portion will just rot and decompose than actually sprout.

As for if they can grow where you are, i'll wait till someone from your neck of the woods to post to answer that!

DIRT Farmer
01-20-2012, 09:12 AM
Lloyd, a fair bit South of you, but as a kid we grew our own beans, and I have gfown them several times. If we planted them late we pulled them and stacked them to dry. I used store bought and the ones from the discount store did not sprout as well. They also are the ones that take longer to cook. I think the reason they are cheaperis older stock. I don't see why you could not grow them if you can plant fairly early.

oneokie
01-20-2012, 10:03 AM
IIRC, you are in the UP. How long is your growing season?

beagle
01-20-2012, 10:15 AM
Yeah, they'll sprout but you may have to plant heavy as the germination rate is not as high. Had a friend in Winchester, KY that planted a bunch last summer and they were up and growing well the last time I talked with him. He was going to thresh and save for the winter.

Got to watch the critters though as they'll get them.

I sowed two rows of field peas year before last and took one mess off two rows and let the quail have the remainder. There were no volunteers this year so something found and liked them./beagle

Reload3006
01-20-2012, 10:58 AM
it takes a lot of real-estate to grow very many dry beans. but if you got the ground you should have plenty of growing season to get a good harvest in most of the US. I use Henry fields and Gurneys for most of my seed. Plant it fertilize it water it and keep it weeded you should have no problems growing some nice beans. Personally I have family in Colorado and know some farmers there and just buy fifty pound sacks of them and they will last me a year or so. Good luck.

MT Gianni
01-20-2012, 11:29 AM
We grew a French flageleot bean in Missoula a season. You let the green beans mature and then seed and dry them. Your weather has to include a long dry period after maturation date which for us was September. If you could plant where they would ripen in August you would do better I am sure. For our hundred day seasons it doesn't make a lot of sense. Pre-sprout your beans and plant them as soon as they sprout and after last frost it might work.

Longwood
01-20-2012, 12:23 PM
I like beans a lot and have found the Anasazi beans to be a favorite.
There are an amazing number of varieties of wonderful heirloom beans to choose from. I prefer heirlooms over hybrids of anything I grow.
You may want to see if you can find a variety similar to Pinto which grows pole style. Much more product for the amount of space needed. I had four White Northern bean plants in a compost pile that I had to pick every third day. I would get half of a big brown paper shopping bag each picking.
The big Lima's, on a pole setup, put out the highest quantity.
One nice thing about growing beans, is you can pick and eat most of the summer, then let a new batch come on in time to let them dry. They just keep on trying to make seeds.
I got by with letting my beans dry on the plant but if you live where it is very humid or you get early rain, picking and drying works well.
When you add it all up, you get an impressive amount of food from a small number of plants.
I used to mix in my beans with my corn or at least plant them where corn grew last year. They each actually add fertilizer that the other plant needs.
The first time I harvested dry beans, I was a bit disappointed in the quantity. I forgot how big a pot pf beans a small amount of beans make.

The yard long black beans are fun to grow and kids like shelling them the most.

Hickory
01-20-2012, 12:30 PM
Check out this website.
http://www.gardenguides.com/67768-growing-pinto-bean-seeds.html

GLL
01-20-2012, 12:37 PM
I grow my own fresh snap peas and green beans but pinto beans are just too inexpensive to buy to make it worth my time to plant. We eat a lot of pinto beans and ham but a 25 pound bag will last two-three months... made two gallons of chili last night ! :) :)

Jerry

waksupi
01-20-2012, 12:41 PM
It does take a lot of room to grow enough beans to be worth while. We did it many years ago, but we were working large gardens on two of our farms. Beans and peas are things I think you are actually better off buying, for the return you get from your effort.
I am doing some inside growing this winter, to have some living color in the cabin. I have a pot of Swiss chard growing, and have some popcorn growing just for the heck of it. I'm doing that, just from curiosity, wondering if the seed was pure strain, or hybrid.
If you want to check your seed viability, take a paper towel, fold it up in a container, and put ten beans inside. Wet it down, keep it wet for at least 10-14 days. By that time they should have sprouted, and you will have an idea what percentage of viable seed you can count on.

Karen
01-20-2012, 01:09 PM
Ive read that the dry beans you get at the store make decent seed. Will they grow properly up north and will freezing the beans hurt them as seed?

Freezing beans before you plant them is actually good for them. Some plant seeds need to be frozen before they will sprout. The seed thinks it's gone through a hard winter and is ready to come alive when it thaws.

You have two issues with store bought beans regarding planting and harvesting.
Most seeds (beans) are irradiated by the large growers and controllers. (ADM, Monsanto, DuPont). Seeds are bombarded with radiation so they can't grow. Otherwise they would be sprouting in your house when it gets warm and humid.

Also, most seeds now are GM Hybrids. They won't produce true to form. Seeds want to grow and reproduce, it's the strongest feature of nature, so sometimes they will still grow even when radiated and genetically altered (GM) and old.

The best thing to do is order some fresh open pollinated "organic" or Heirloom seeds. They are natural and resist drouth, heat, pests, etc. GM/Hybrid seeds are altered to look all the same, taste the same and ripen at the same time.

Heirloom produce looks ugly, harvest longer, and taste better. If you like tomatoes, try growing some Brandywine variety.
My Favorite.

Just search "organic heirloom seeds beans" and you will get plenty of places to order natural seeds (beans).

Longwood
01-20-2012, 01:45 PM
Heirloom produce looks ugly, harvest longer, and taste better.

That can not be said often enough.
Plus, if you look around, there are often many more varieties. Melons and tomatoes are especially fun if you have enough space.
I wont even look at the, oh so pretty but nasty tasting veggies, at our local markets.
I have always loved most types of vegetables. How people can expect their kids to eat veggies now days is beyond me.
Luckily we have a certified organic farmers market that comes to town each week. The veggies there taste like we used to grow, and long enough ago, buy at the local markets.

Lloyd Smale
01-20-2012, 07:54 PM
thanks for all the help guys.

shotman
01-21-2012, 12:08 AM
If you want a suprize try the seedless cucumbers. like in the store in the plastic wrap
Dont plant more than 2 plants , unless you have most of the town to give them too
that would be good for you Ric. Inside and 50ft vine

waksupi
01-21-2012, 02:42 AM
If you want a suprize try the seedless cucumbers. like in the store in the plastic wrap
Dont plant more than 2 plants , unless you have most of the town to give them too
that would be good for you Ric. Inside and 50ft vine

That is exactly the type of thing I would do! :redneck:

badbobgerman
01-21-2012, 03:01 AM
Ive read that the dry beans you get at the store make decent seed. Will they grow properly up north and will freezing the beans hurt them as seed?

try this Lloyd ...
A close cousin of the pinto bean is the Anasazi bean; this seed produces
a red and white speckled bean once used by Native Americans. ..

these were found in the deserted hills and were planted hundreds of years later and they sprouted they have a slightly sweeter taste than pintos and give you mush less gas indigestion . try to grow these and the seeds will survive from year to year i believe they are also known as appalosa beans and possibly jacobs cattle beans not suer of the last one ... i dont use pintos anymore , too much gas , but the anasazi is easy on the digestion,
for more info check this link
http://www.ellenskitchen.com/recipebox/beanspeas2.html

Reload3006
01-21-2012, 11:21 AM
another option is cranberry beans less gas look and pretty much taste like a pinto

oneokie
01-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Grandma's fix for bean gas; chunk up a potato and cook in the beans. Don't eat the potato chunks.

Rick N Bama
01-21-2012, 03:24 PM
I can vouch for the Anasazi beans, they're great, I just wish we could find them in the stores here. Another bean we like isa the Bonita Beans, they're good in Chili.

Rick

Longwood
01-21-2012, 09:38 PM
I can vouch for the Anasazi beans, they're great, I just wish we could find them in the stores here. Another bean we like isa the Bonita Beans, they're good in Chili.

Rick

In my opinion, they are worth buying online and paying the shipping.
I buy several pounds at a time and divvy them up into small vacuumed bags.
Beans and corn bread or rice is a complete meal that has all of the essential amino acids.
Toss in a hog hock/shank, or some sow belly, and you have a tasty meal indeed. Especially if you have some Okra, rolled in corn meal and fried, to go with it.
Very cheap and very good for you.

C A Plater
01-24-2012, 03:41 PM
If you got around 90-100 days of growing weather pintos will make it. I've grown them in LP Michigan and N. Illinois with some success. Don't know how they'd do in the UP but if navy beans will grow I'd guess you had a good chance of getting some. Freezing doesn't hurt the dry bean.

Rick N Bama
01-25-2012, 04:06 PM
I've grown Pinto Beans here but they were only used as fresh shelled beans, as I remember they were mighty tasty that way. I have also grown "October" Beans as fresh shelled beans. They're quite tasty as well.

I now lack the space to grow a large garden or I would try growing a variety of beans again.

Rick

scrapcan
01-25-2012, 04:52 PM
if you are interested in the topic introduced above about inducing germination by freezing ( or other methods) it is called scarification. in the case of freezing it will be called cold scarification. You should be able to find information related to this topic easily for most crops and garden plants.

If you are really interested you can try to find the USDA seed starters manual, it has all kinds of plants in it. thanks for the trip back to my college botany classes!

DLCTEX
01-25-2012, 07:25 PM
We have planted pinto beans and blackeye (Cow peas to some) from store packages and had no problems. In our part of the country we have to get them in early or plant in the fall before the temps get too hot as 95+ temps kill the pollen. We used to pick them in the immature stage and cook as green beans, but the strings were a little bit of a pain to remove. I don't know how they'd do in your climate. The Anasazi beans are about the same climate needs or maybe tolerate a little more hot and dry. The original seeds were found in the storage bins of the pueblos built in the high cliffs of the southwest. A few of the seeds found grew and were kept isolated and the genetics preserved. As a kid I was tasked with thrashing the dry beans and did most of them by rolling the dry pods between gloved hands. I then winnowed them by pouring from one container to the other in a slight wind. Blackeyes, cream peas, silver queens, and purple hulls were hulled while a mature green and the canned with pressure cooker. Now we prefer blackeyes frozen in the green stage and then boiled with a little bacon and salt. We really don't care for blackeyes that are cooked after drying, but they beat none at all if you season with a little tobasco sauce.

Dark Helmet
01-26-2012, 12:05 AM
I think these were the field peas I tried a few years back- the snaps were not any good for fresh, but as peas- they were prolific. I think there may still be a pound or so around here somewhere.

Longwood
01-26-2012, 12:19 AM
Now we prefer blackeyes frozen in the green stage and then boiled with a little bacon and salt. We really don't care for blackeyes that are cooked after drying, but they beat none at all if you season with a little tobasco sauce.

My parents were from the mid south and we grew blackeyed peas for many years.
I like them best with a few young snapped pods and maybe a few pods of Okra thrown in.
At first, we had tons of trouble with deer eating the blossoms and little pods as soon as they came on. Some how, we discovered that deer hate Bell Peppers plants so we intermixed them in with the Blackeyed Peas.
My mom sold the excess peppers so they did not go to waste.

Oops! Now my mouth is watering.
Farmers Market is in town tomorrow. I think I will see if I can find some fresh peas and Okra.

Wayne Smith
01-26-2012, 01:53 PM
My dad was involved in the research and development of the Maine Yelloweye bean many years ago. It was developed for short season planting, drying in the field. I have no idea if it is still available buy may be worth a look.

Greg
01-26-2012, 10:24 PM
Lloyd-

You might want to look at these two seed dealers…

www.nativeseeds.org

www.abundantlifeseeds.com/

bruce drake
01-26-2012, 11:07 PM
THis thread got me to start planning for a late garden for Kansas this summer.

darn you www.burpee.com!!!! I'm already thinking of what to plant out there on the prairie.

Bruce

Longwood
01-27-2012, 12:40 AM
THis thread got me to start planning for a late garden for Kansas this summer.

darn you www.burpee.com!!!! I'm already thinking of what to plant out there on the prairie.

Bruce

I may plant way early this year. It was in the mid seventies today so I worked in the yard without a shirt. It has been great all month.

10 ga
01-28-2012, 09:03 PM
It is worth it to buy some and see which will work up there. Most but not all beans will have "true" seed and be same from year to year. Only a few will cross polinate. Check out these, try some and save seed! I like the "Turkey Craw" and "Lazy Wife". Best, 10 ga

http://www.seedsavers.org/

http://www.southernexposure.com/

http://www.heirlooms.org/beans.html

Bullwolf
01-28-2012, 10:08 PM
I have only dabbled a little bit growing beans. For me they are hit or miss after germination. I did manage to keep some of my original seed pinto beans from last year, but this was a really weird growing season.

I found myself in need of some rhubarb, for a strawberry rhubarb pie, and for the life of me I couldn't find it anyplace locally. I remembered a plant that had been growing at my great grandmothers farm, and had been transplanted to my grandparents house. Low and behold it was still going strong at my grandparents place. Apparently deer don't seem to like rhubarb very much. I transplanted some and it seems to be going strong still. I tried canning a bit of rhubarb, will have to see how well it keeps that way.

I had pretty decent luck letting my carrot plants go to seed, and using the seed to start carrots again next year with.

I hope this isn't too far off topic for the thread, but it's sort of on the topic of seeds.

I also tried growing a bit of tobacco for my own personal use. This was mostly in the interest of being self reliant, and because I wanted to give it a try and see if it would grow in my area.

The tobacco grew like gangbusters, and then quickly went to seed.

I managed to keep the strains separate, and I kept the seeds from a few of my favorite varieties. My tobacco seed germinated really well the next growing season.

It was quite a novelty for me as you don't hear a lot about tobacco growing in the Western states. It is much more common as you get farther East though. While I am not a big smoker, I still found the tobacco quite a lot of fun to grow, and cure.


- Bullwolf

Longwood
01-28-2012, 10:35 PM
[QUOTE=Bullwolf;1566158]

Low and behold it was still going strong at my grandparents place. Apparently deer don't seem to like rhubarb very much.


They know the green part is poisonous.

Our Rhubarb would come back every year in the mountains of Washington state where it would snow eight feet deep every year.

Deer love cured tobacco,,,, I wonder if they like it green. Green, it can be like poison oak to some people.

Old Goat Keeper
02-01-2012, 11:17 PM
Just saw 2# bags of pinto beans at Aldi's today for $1.99 per bag. Don't pay to grow em for that price.

T-o--m

Longwood
02-02-2012, 06:14 AM
Just saw 2# bags of pinto beans at Aldi's today for $1.99 per bag. Don't pay to grow em for that price.

T-o--m

Growing your own of just about any thing can be very satisfying.
Lots of people have plenty of space and a well so a garden cost them very little if they don't raise Hi-brids so they can save seed for next year.

I was single with a good paying job when I lived in the big city.
I grew a garden in my back yard so I would not have to mow it. I enjoyed it emensely and gave away most of what I grew. I found it to be very relaxing and it kept me from watching too much TV.
Some of the stuff I grew was very relaxing also. :bigsmyl2:

In time, I learned that raised beds are so nice to grow in and so much easier than growing in dirt. It took me a while to build up enough compost etc. to do it butI did the beds one at a time. It sure did pay off over time.

41 mag fan
02-06-2012, 07:43 PM
One way to get more out of a small area is to square foot garden. I can take a space that most people get a small amount out of and by the time I'm done, I've fed the neighbors and my parents all summer from it, to the point they are burned out, not including what we eat and can.
I'm not bragging in the least, but my love of growing a garden far exceeds anything for me. It put me into the top master gardeners in our county for over a decade.
Plus all my garden produce was totally organic.

When you square foot garden, you're accomplishing several things. You get more out of a square foot area, you create the perfect environment where your soil stays moist longer, and your production doubles to triples.

One thing about growing and harvesting your own seeds.
If it's not an heirloom variety, the 2nd yr when you've harvested and stored, theres a high possibility the plants will either revert to the parent crosses or it'll possibly be basically sterile. All plant and no produce.
Freezing seeds is the best way to store for next yrs produce. It places the seeds into a dormancy it needs for the next seasons producing. One thing about this though...always expect 10% loss of seeds when collecting

Longwood
02-06-2012, 08:08 PM
One way to get more out of a small area is to square foot garden. I can take a space that most people get a small amount out of and by the time I'm done, I've fed the neighbors and my parents all summer from it, to the point they are burned out, not including what we eat and can.
I'm not bragging in the least, but my love of growing a garden far exceeds anything for me. It put me into the top master gardeners in our county for over a decade.
Plus all my garden produce was totally organic.

When you square foot garden, you're accomplishing several things. You get more out of a square foot area, you create the perfect environment where your soil stays moist longer, and your production doubles to triples.

One thing about growing and harvesting your own seeds.
If it's not an heirloom variety, the 2nd yr when you've harvested and stored, theres a high possibility the plants will either revert to the parent crosses or it'll possibly be basically sterile. All plant and no produce.
Freezing seeds is the best way to store for next yrs produce. It places the seeds into a dormancy it needs for the next seasons producing. One thing about this though...always expect 10% loss of seeds when collecting

You are talking like Mel Bartholomew now.
That is the method I use. Practically no work. Better yield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Lu-7FIj_g


Here is a youtube link.
I used to watch his shows faithfully and bought his book when he died.
He told his friends he wanted his ashes spread on his compost pile.:-)

waksupi
02-06-2012, 09:10 PM
I have his book on Square Foot Gardening. I planted my garlic this fall according to his diagrams, and did most of my planting last summer using the method.
I enlarged my garden this fall, and will see if I can grow a year's worth of veggies to can and dry this next year.
Yesterday I planted some lettuce to go along with my Swiss chard that is already growing, and will be starting Roma tomatoes tomorrow. All being grown in the south window of the bathroom.
I get my heirloom seed from Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds, and from friends.

Longwood
02-06-2012, 11:38 PM
I use to think Redwood compost was good for a garden or raised bed.
I got a gardening book about gardening in the desert and the author pointed out that Redwood makes good fence posts because it has an oil that kills the tiny bacteria, organizms and enzymes plants need.

Lloyd Smale
02-07-2012, 07:16 AM
you guys that are planting allready make me jealous. Were still dead in the middle of winter. A mild winter so far but youd still need a snow plow to clear off your garden!

L Ross
02-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Lloyd, we grow an heirloom bean here in SW Wisconsin. We just gave some seeds to Seed Savers in Decorah, Iowa. We eat them as big, wide, green beans, and especially as pickled dilly beans, plus we save some to dry one year and I made soup. Last year we planted 8 seeds under a willow pole teepee like frame and had all the beans we needed and then some. We can spare a few seeds and you will have a supply for ever after this year. Send me a PM if interested. I don't have a lot of extras after the donation to Seed Savers but they germinate almost 100% and grow like crazy. You'll have to give them something to climb on and don't stand still too close or they'll climb you. The dried beans look like the Dutch Brown in Seed Savers catalog.

Duke

Silver Eagle
02-07-2012, 11:53 PM
My Dad has grown lots of vegetables in his back yard garden. One of his "tricks" to get seeds started a bit quicker is to soak the seeds in water for a day or two before planting. They then germinate in the ground a lot faster.
For green beans (pole and bush) he has on the vine dried a portion each year for the next year's planting. He has noticed over the years of doing this that he has been getting a few less or smaller beans. Guess he needs to buy a pack of seeds to freshen the stock.
As for tomatoes and peppers, he buys them from the nurseries to get a head start on the season. He does get a healthy crop of "volunteer" tomatoes from last years drops and kitchen scraps tossed in the garden during the winter. I have noticed that the "volunteer" tomatoes have been reverting back to the tiny cherry tomatoes.

Silver Eagle

canebreaker
02-08-2012, 01:05 AM
I to buy the pinto and great northern beans at Aldi's, can't beat the price.
White/baby limas come out with black specks on the beans. So I don't grow them anymore. Speckled limas do great. I pick them fresh not dried. The pods that do dry on the plants, I save for seeds. I save only the ones with 4 beans in the shell. I saved a bunch a few years ago that had 1 and 2 beans per shell and that seemed all I picked. I had to buy new for next years garden.
I save a lot of different seeds. Shell them, place them in jars, no lid, label them, let them dry about a month, place lids on and freeze them.
Stepdad picks their tomatoes, the bad ones he picks and throws on the ground. I have to follow him when I pick mine, pick his up and get them out of the garden. I don't want a bunch of cherry and grape tomatoes. I made juice with some once, didn't like the taste.
Deer in the garden. They wiped my peas out. It didn't mater if the were pinkeye purple hull or top crop. I planted bell peppers and other peppers with them. Marygolds didn't help either. They striped the okra too. I lost a bunch of peas, peppers, okra and flowers. Now they are sampling the greens. The only thing that I've found to keep them out is 80# clear mono fishing line. I bought a large spool years ago when I was catting. I made a fence, using all the saplings near the garden and stakes where trees weren't.
Now I have lots of greens that I can't get anyone to come and pick all they want. They are seeding, so it's a field of yellow now. I found a cotton gin, 55 miles round trip. I'm adding about 3 inches of gin trash (cotton hulls) to the garden where I can.
This year, after I till the middles the 3rd time in the tomatoes, okra and peppers. I'll lay down soaker hose, then a layer of paper and cardboard, covered with a good layer of composted leaves.

Lloyd Smale
02-08-2012, 07:00 AM
thanks a ton duke. I sent you a pm
Lloyd, we grow an heirloom bean here in SW Wisconsin. We just gave some seeds to Seed Savers in Decorah, Iowa. We eat them as big, wide, green beans, and especially as pickled dilly beans, plus we save some to dry one year and I made soup. Last year we planted 8 seeds under a willow pole teepee like frame and had all the beans we needed and then some. We can spare a few seeds and you will have a supply for ever after this year. Send me a PM if interested. I don't have a lot of extras after the donation to Seed Savers but they germinate almost 100% and grow like crazy. You'll have to give them something to climb on and don't stand still too close or they'll climb you. The dried beans look like the Dutch Brown in Seed Savers catalog.

Duke

waksupi
02-08-2012, 12:54 PM
If you save your heirlooms seeds, always collect your seeds from your healthiest, most robust plants. Do this each year, and you will actually be developing a plant that is tailored specifically to your area and soil. After 3-4 years, you will see a marked improvement on the variety you are growing, due to it adapting itself to the trace elements in your particular soil. Some people collect seeds from plants that they see aren't doing well, since they don't want to loose the produce from their healthiest plants. Just the opposite of what you want.