9.3x57mm mauser

[Frank46]

Been thinking of getting a swedish 98 mauser in 9.3x57mm caliber. Sarco has these for sale on thier web site. This will be a cast boolit rifle only. If I remember correctly the 9.3 uses .366 dia bullets and the 9.5 uses .375 dia bullets. I had recently checked out the Mountain Molds site as I have heard good things about their molds on this site. But They have gone to a customer
designed bullet rather than one of their standard designs. The other alternative is NEI and they do list a bullet suitable for the 9.3. And where would I be able to get the proper size gaschecks?. Since this is in the planning stage (haven't ordered the rifle yet) any suggestions and or comments are welcome. Thanks, Frank

[9.3X62AL]

Frank--

I have one of the Mountain Mold designs in 9.3 mm, a 270 grain rendition of the mold suggested by "Eirik" on Accuratereloading.com. If you were to reference the design to Dan in that way, he could help you get what you need. It's best to have the rifle in hand to answer dimensional questions before ordering. All 9.3mm molds use 375 gas checks. You were correct in stating that 9.3mm = .366" and 9.5mm = .375" nominally. Don't be afraid of the customer-design software--if a computer-lame dude like me can navigate it, just about anyone ought to be able to.

Barnes' "Cartridges of the World" shows loading data and ballistic performance of the cartridge. Factory load consists of 286 grain bullets at 2065 FPS, and 43.0 grains of 3031 yields 2070 FPS.

My 9.3 is a 9.3 x 62 in a CZ-550. It is a cast boolit MACHINE, for sure.

[Frank46]

Deputy Al, I checked in the vitavouri loading manual and say that the 9.3x57 is not supported by either sammi or cip. Their loads of n140 donot go over 40000psi. 250gr bullet at approx 2200fps. Or somewhere in that range. Think that this caliber would be anatural for slinging large hunks of lead at deer or wild pigs. Franj

[9.3X62AL]

The 9.3's are GREAT for just what you describe--flinging large hunks of lead at large nasty critters. That is why I got my CZ-550. The caliber has a fine reputation against not-so-nasty large critters also.

Basically--velocity isn't everything. This concept is foreign to our sporting gun designers these days, but the velocity window of 2000-2300 FPS does a LOT of good things for a caliber. Chief among these side-effects is the ability to construct reliable controlled-expansion jacketed bullets to service such ballistics. This goes a long way to explain why the 30-30 remains so popular and effective in the deer woods. This velocity range also is near the top end of conventional cast boolit capabilities. Now having run some of the Mountain Mold 270's at 2000 FPS, I can say that accuracy does not degrade significantly from that produced at 1600-1700 FPS.

Far as I'm concerned--the .366" caliber is the best-kept game rifle secret the Europeans ever hid from us here in the States.

[Frank46]

Deputy Al, I don't know wether or not I've become bored with the standard calibers in some of the rifles I have. But decided to try something new. I have plenty of 8mm brass and figure what the heck. Worse comes to worse can always use that box of remington 06' brass thats been collecting dust. Hopefully in another week or so will have my new/old toy. Regards Frank

[BruceB]

I'll second friend Al's take on the velocity range we're talking about. 2100-2400fps projectiles have killed quite few animals for me, using heavy-for-caliber bullets. The .303 British with 215 SPs (2100 fps) is simply deadly on moose in the brush, and my .404 with 400 @ 2400 has to be seen to be believed, where Wood Bison are involved. The speed is not really a short-range restriction, either, as I've killed animals to 200 yards and beyond very cleanly with such loads, thanks.

I think that any decent-condition Mauser can safely be loaded to well above that 40,000 figure, and WHEN I get a 9.3 of my own, it will receive a normal load work-up with jacketed bullets just to find out where the actual "efficiency envelope" lies. From that point on, of course, it'll see mostly cast boolits. There are quite few reasonably-priced 9.3mm Husqvarna rifles on Gunsamerica over the course of time. Some are x57, others are x62, and for our purposes it doesn't make a whole lot of difference, I suspect. I've fired Al's CZ and I really enjoyed the feel of the combination of rifle and cartridge.

Just lately I've beeen paying a lot of attention to hunting-bullet performance reports, and have been impressed with what I see about the new Barnes TSX all-copper bullet....sufficiently impressed that I will be carrying them in my .338 this fall for elk. Barnes has just announced the availability of the the TSX in 9.3mm, in 286-grain form and another weight as well. Obviously, SOMEONE is paying attention to the 9.3, and that's nice to see.

[NVcurmudgeon]

This is just a wild guess, because the answers are buried in the mists of time. But I wouldn't be at all surprised that Charles Newton patterned his .35 Newton after German 9.3 mm cartridges. There was much German-American
firearms trade in the pre-WWI days. Similarly, I'll bet Col. Whelen's .35 and G&H's .35 Magnum benefitted from Teutonic influences in the twenties and thirties. The Americans had to use .35 cal. bulllets meant for .35 Rem. and .35 Win. ammo because .366 bullets were scarce west of the Rhine.

[9.3X62AL]

Frank--

I think you'll enjoy that 9.3 x 57. The Nosler 250 grain Ballistic Tip is showing some good results in the CZ, and its weight class might be a better match for the 57mm boiler room than the 270 grain Speer or 286 grain Nosler Partition. This Ballistic Tip is not the light-jacketed example seen in 6mm or 22 caliber, either--it is designed for big game applications.

While varmint shooting isn't the first thing that comes to mind with a .366" caliber rifle, I have used Hornady .365" hollowpoints designed for the 9mm Makarov to form cases, and these did fine work on jackrabbits. Don't expect to use anything hit with such rounds for table fare, though.

Both RWS and Norma make a 232 grain bullet--although these might be a little harder to find.

[Frank46]

Deputy Al, Hopefully by this time next week will have the 9.3x57. But this will be for cast bullets only. Here in louisiana my buddy has a tree stand with walls, windows, office chair and other amenities. Deer for some reason have been seen as close as 15 yards. No way could I get my rem 700 varminter in 308 on the critter. Big dummy me. And what really hurts is that I brought my marlin 444 but left it in the trailer. Ah well live and learn. But with cast. Frank

[9.3X62AL]

Frank--

The MM 9.3mm boolit has a .285" meplat, and I have a hunting load cobbled up that runs the 270 grain boolit at 1700 FPS.......a pretty good bolt action 38-55 imitator, for sure. Recoil is moderate, and it groups at close to 1" at 50 yards, maybe a hair bigger with 5 shots. If the rifle gets used for the dinky muleys and blacktails hereabouts, this will be its load. You should have no trouble getting a 270 grain boolit to that velocity in the 9.3 x 57 safely using any one of a number of powders--23.0 grains of 2400 does the trick in the 9.3 x 62.

[Frank46]

Deputy Al, thanks for the info, can't wait to get my grubby hands on it. Will most likely
get a set of redding dies (3 die set) and of course a bullet mould. Frank

[Frank46]

Al, i receivced the rifle omn monday last week. Ran home a pushed a few patches with hoppe's to start work. Since I only has some new 375 brushes that is what I used. The bore brush made all sorts of wierd noise going through the bbl. After I patched out the solvent and dirt I found severe pitting in the throat area and extendintg well into the bbl. The muzzle showed pitting on yhe tops of the lands, I spent the better part of an hour scrubbing the bbl. The bbl looked much cleaner but the corrosion bothered me. I called sarco in new jersey and they have agreed to my returning tyhe one I have now and getting another, So at this point I'm keeping my fingers crossed until yjr next one comes in. Had 24"bbl marked vapenfabrik husqvarna Kal 9.3mm.
Stock was nice ni bad dings or sents but was set up for a 15" length of pull. I normally like that at around 13" tops. Will let you all know whatI end up with this time. They also has swedish 98 mausers with sporting stocks. Think the price was 299.99 plus 15 bucks for the shipping. The were other swedish mausers in both the 96 action and 98 action. Some of the calibers were, 8mm, 9.3mm,30-06, 9.3x62 and possibly a few that I don't remember right now. They have some of them on display on their web site. Frank

[Buckshot]

..............Wow, that's too bad. It's enough strain just having to wait for it, but to get it and have to send it back ...............! That'd about give me a seizure!

...............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

Frank--

Sorry to hear about that bore condition. Unfortunately, corrosive priming was a fact of life for a lot years that span the lifetimes of these rifles.

I am not likely to get many more rifles, handguns, or shotguns--and this was planned several years ago. Most of my acquisitions happened when I got overtime money, and prior to retirement the "toys and goodies" I wanted were purchased with this largesse. I am blessed to have accumulated about everything I wanted, and am in a position to swap or sell for something I develop an interest in.

Point of fact--the 9.3 x 62 is so useful, it eliminates the need for a number of medium or large calibers. I suspect the 9.3 x 57 would no less flexible. I learned that the new series Winchester 94's x 38-55 in 20" barrel lengths have 1-26" twist rates, so that makes me wonder how useable that rifle would be in the field. I think that one will be a "no-go" for that reason.

[JDL]

Frank,
I'm intrested these 9.3s. Have the bolts been altered for scope use? I see that some are drilled and tapped for mounts and was wondering. I really don't know why I'm even considering them, as I already have a model 70 in .358, but a 9.3X57 Husqvarna sounds much more poetic, don'tchathink?:-):-) -JDL

[9.3X62AL]

Poetic--that must be why I got the 9.3 x 62 instead of a 35 Whelen or 375 H&H. Poetic. Yeah!

[Frank46]

The husky that I had came with weaver bases, BUT the bolt handle was not altered. Seems some of the pictures sarco had showed real high weaver type rings. The exterior of the rifle had no rust or pitting and the stock aside from a few scratches was
really nice with a schnabble on the front of the stock. Bummed me out something bad,
lets hope I get a better one next time. Oh yeah, the rifle came equipped with a sporting bead front sight and a standing rear which is only adjustable for windage.
I had hoped to put the old steel lyman 57 with target knobs on this rifle and leave it that way just for cast boolits. Will go to the dealer monday and send it back, Frank

[Frank46]

Deputy Al, Well the husky went back monday. Sent an e-mail to T.J. at Sarco. They had their ad in the august 1 issue of shotgun news. They had a special selection charge of $35 bucks. I told them that it was ok for them to go ahead and I'll forward the check. T.J. sent me an e-mail that he'd make sure I got a nice one and that it was on him and not to send the $35. That speaks well for him and sarco. So hopefully early next week I should have my new/old rifle in hand. Not many companies would go that distance. I had purchased a steyr professional hunter in 30-06 some years back. Three rounds later and every round had what our club president termed wedding band one each case. The dealer fired it also with different factory rounds and the result was the same. I ended up with a sako 75 hunter. The distributor had told the dealer that both steyr and they had test fired each rifle and nothing unusual was noted. Guess they have different ideas of what is unusual. Was a shame as it had a trigger to die for. But the sako has porven to be very accurate and I have no regrets. Frank

[9.3X62AL]

Frank--

My original idea was to get the 9.3 x 62 in the Steyr-Mannlicher Professional variant, but I waited around too long--and they are no longer imported. Since you mention the Sako, and those are really fine rifles......Tikka imports a bolter or two in 9.3 x 62, as does CZ. Dunno if the Sako rifles are available so chambered or not in the USA, but I suspect they are made in Finland for sure.

That TJ at Sarco sounds like his heart is in the right place. Good luck on the next rifle.

[JohnH]

In terms of velocity and bullet weights, how similar are the 358 and the 9.3 (or 9.5) x 57?

At present I am working with an NEF Handi I had fitted with their 38-55 barrel. Rifle shoots very nice, and pushes the Lyman 379449 to circa 1900 fps. I've no doubt this will be a great deer slayer, but I did take a strong liking to the 9.3 or 9.5 x 57 or 62.

I used a 45-70 for some years (couple different models) as a deer rifle, but overall found it to be more gun than one needs and too much recoil to deal with. I guess age is tenderizing me. But I love the effect that heavy, moderate speed bullets have on game. I can only think that folks who are using magnums on deer (seen lots arond these parts) have never seen the effects of a circa 300 grian bullet at circa 2000 fps.

I became enarmored with the 358-380 caliber as it has good bullet weight, yet offers very good BC's as well, so that a 270-300 grain bullet flies quite like a 200 grainer from a 30-06 but has umph the '06 only dreams of.

I'm convinced that this caliber, bullet weight and speed range is the true one size fits all for a meat gathering hunting rifle and the case sizes load down well enough to allow for easy on the shoulder and pocketbook plinking as well.

Wel, enough of my rambling. I'd sure like to know where you guys think the 358 falls in with these. I have an NEF in 357 Maximum that I'm just about disgusted with and am thinking it is in need of a rechamber to solve a throating issue. The twist is 1-18, it stabilizes 250's even at the low speeds the Maximum can push 'em, but I doubt it will work with heavier bullets.

Thanks for lettin' me drop in,

JohnH

[NVcurmudgeon]

JohnH, Cartridges of the World has these factory loads:
.358 Win. 200 gr. 2490 fps
.358 Win. 250 gr. 2250 fps
9.3 X 57 232 gr. 2330 fps (handload)
9.3 X 57 286 gr. 2065 fps.
Looks like the .358, compared to the 9.3 X 57, traded off 30 gr. bullet weight to gain 200 fps.

[Frank46]

JDL, Its funny, I have 30-06's, 308's, 303, 30-30 and 45-70 and more than I care to name. But after looking at sarco's web site I decided I gotta have one of these. So what if you have to make 9.3's out of 8mm brass?. I have about 200 rem 8mm cases and if I really get desparate I have about 180 Israeli 8mm cases dated 1954-55 to play with.Sometimes you get in a rut or you want to try something new. As far as the husky in 9.3x57 is concerned I can either have the bolt altered and scope mounted or
install a steel lyman 57 sme (springfield, mauser, enfield) sight and just use iron sights.
Or could have the bolt alterem with a mannlicher type bolt handle. Either way would be way cool as my oldest daughter would say. When I get the new/old rifle will post about it here for all to read about. I could do no less. Thanks, Frank

[JDL]

John,
I'm going to try this one more time as the computer locks up whenever I try to submit a responce.

NVcurmudgeon gave you the printed specs on the cartridges. I can't give addition information on the 9.3s, but both my .358s will propel the 180 grain Barnes X 2700 fps or slightly over; 225 Sierra over 2500 fps; 250 Speer 2300-2350 fps (which is most excellent on elk!). Although the model 70 produces the most velocity, the BLR is more accurate, especially with cast boolits.-JDL

[drinks]

I am using a Handirifle in .35 Whelen, with a Lyman 358315, wws, 1% Tin, 1oz chilled shot per 7-8 lb alloy, water dropped , BHN 18-19, LBT blue lube, with 40gr IMR 4198, I am getting 2380fps with no leading and good accuracy, for me that is 2" or less at 100yds with a scope, I am not a very good target shooter.
The .358 should get very close to this and the 9.3x57 has more case capacity.

[Frank46]

JohnH, the vitavouri loading manual lists approx 50grs N140 with the 250gr bullet at about 2250 fps. They also said that this cartridge is not supported by either CIP or SAMMI. In a 98 action you could probably get more velocity. But be aware that the 96 action the swedes used for their model 96 and model 38 rifles are also chambered for this cartridge. Saw a 96 so barrelled at a gun show a few weeks ago. So if you decide
to get one get a 98 action. Frank