45ACP 230gr LRN Load Data

[Joe216]

I’m new to reloading and have a few questions regarding casted bullet quality and load data. I’ve been casting for about 2 weeks now and have about 1000 bullets and just received my Dillon press. Before I start calibrating the dies, I need some advice. Below is what I’m working with:

Press = Dillon RL550B

Bullet Type = LRN (personally casted from clip-on wheel weights only)
Bullet Diameter = .452 (sized/lubed with Lee sizer)
Bullet Weight = 232 – 236 grains (casted from 6 cavity Lee Mold)
Bullet Hardness = 8BHN (I’m assuming the bullets will harden to the 11-12 range after a few weeks)
Bullet seated in case OAL = 1.250 (I tested and chambers nicely)

Case = Speer brass w/small primer pocket

Primer = CCI 500 (small pistol primer)

Powder = Bullseye

I haven’t been able to find load data with the ingredients I have, I’m looking for some advice. Will the small primer Speer case be a problem? All load data I’ve found has been for large primer. I have 1000 Speer cases and hope I don’t have to replace with Large.

How critical should I be with bullet specs/imperfections with concern to safety? I just want to make sure it’s safe to load what I’ve casted. I understand accuracy will suffer with poorly made bullets.

Based on my research I plan on starting with 3.6gr Bullseye with bullet seated at 1.250 and then working the load up to 4.8gr and choosing the best load based on accuracy and NO I don’t have a Chrono just yet. Does this sound safe? And NO I won’t hold anyone liable for recommendations, I’m solely responsible for the decisions I make.

Thanks everyone,
Joe

[35remington]

You haven't specified which Lee RN. They make two; the 228-1R and the 230-2R. The second is the closer match to ball profile. Specifying which variant will help the answers I can give you. I have and have loaded both variants.

In this instance, correct OAL with the 230-2R is more like 1.265" to allow slight shoulder protrusion and a better length match to ball ammo.

If the 228-1R, 1.250" is likely too long to allow chambering as it's a one ogive radius and this length allows some amount (probably too much) of the full caliber bearing surface outside of the case mouth. This hits the leade and prevents chambering. If your gun has some amount of throat 1.220" should be correct. If you have no throat and an abrupt leade you might need to be a little bit shorter than that.

Given your description of full chambering I'm guessing you have the 230-2R. And I'd seat it closer to 1.265."

The powder charges you plan on are fine. The top end load with the 230-2R should get around 780-800 fps loaded to 1.265." I've shot just that combination. Also with the 228-1R.

The small primer will have no appreciable effect on the outcome.

FWIW......the plural of "cast" is "cast." It's the same when it's used as a verb.

"I’m new to reloading and have a few questions regarding cast bullet quality and load data."

"I just want to make sure it’s safe to load what I’ve cast."

"I cast 1000 bullets last night."

I know this isn't English school, but I thought as a new cast bullet shooter you might like to know. It's the teacher in me, so please forgive my unsolicited pedantic reply. .

[runfiverun]

4 grs...

[dnotarianni]

Everything sounds good except for the powder charge being low. 3.6 may not function a 1911 variant and definitely will not function an XDm. Go up to 4.0 for a start load. 5.0 will be the equivalent of factory hardball. I'm PMing you some loads and chrony readings
Dave

[35remington]

In a five inch 1911 with standard radius stop and 16 lb. spring, 4 grains of Bullseye will function the pistol 100 percent with a 200 grain bullet, and 3.6 grains with a 230 should work also, but then again I don't know what pistol you may have, or how it is sprung.

So I agree; you might want to start at 4 grains to be sure. I know for a fact that will work with a lighter 200 grain bullet that develops less pressure and slide impulse.

[MtGun44]

About 4.5 to 4.7 of BE works for me.

Bill

[Joe216]

Hey guys, thank you for the advice. I know I threw a lot out there so your time and advice is much appreciated.

The mold is a 230-2R.

I'll try the 1.265 and see how it goes, that sounds good.

Also, I'll bump up to 4.0gr bullseye to start, multiple people have said 3.6 might be too low and would hate to have problems starting too low.

"Cast" not casted bullets will be used in my Xdm (haha I'm getting there).

[fredj338]

Not a BE fan, & I agree, 3.6gr is a bit light for 100% reliable ammo in most guns. Start @ 4gr & work up in 0.1gr increments, no more than 10rds each. The SP primer will lower the pressure of the load a bit & you will have a vel loss. With some powders, as much as 30fps. I hate the idea, can't figure out why after 100yrs, they need to change the frickin primer. Then when you are tired of all the crud that BE leaves behond, get a can of WST & give that a go. The best powder for 45acp IMO, all bullet wts or styles for std pressure loads..

[Joe216]

Hey Fred, good advice, I wasn't sure how much to increment either so working up with 0.1gr sounds good.

I know I really goofed up with the small primer brass, not too common, hopefully I can reclaim and use what I have for now. I bought a bunch from oncefiredbrass.com since they were out of the winchester brass.

[runfiverun]

you'll be seing more of the small primered stuff in the future might as well get a load worked up now.
the one gun i truly like unique in is the 45 acp with 200-250 gr boolits.
it's recoil impulse is noticably softer than with the faster powders and isn't dirty.
with 160's i like titegroup.

[ku4hx]

FWIW......the plural of "cast" is "cast." It's the same when it's used as a verb.

"I’m new to reloading and have a few questions regarding cast bullet quality and load data."

"I just want to make sure it’s safe to load what I’ve cast."

"I cast 1000 bullets last night."

I know this isn't English school, but I thought as a new cast bullet shooter you might like to know. It's the teacher in me, so please forgive my unsolicited pedantic reply. .

+1 I'm retired now, but I taught high school for a number of years ... Chemistry, Physics. Biology, math and English. The teacher in me salutes you.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I've had good results using 4.1 grains of Red Dot with 230 grain RN's like the H&G #34, and the RCBS 225 grainer. Not especially hot, but feeds well with no leading, clean burning and reasonably accurate. LLS

[milprileb]

BE does fine for 45 acp but it does not meter well for me. I finally had to go back to WW231 (aka HP 38) and load 5.1 grains of it to push 230 gr RNL bullets.

BE is cheaper of course and does well, I just don't like inconsistent flow of it in my progressive reloading press powder measures.

[Blammer]

make about 10 of them and then test them in your firearm, make sure they function before you load up 1,000 of them. :)

Pulling boolits sucks!

[Char-Gar]

For Pete's sake, no data for a 225-230 cast bullet with BE in the 45 ACP? Talk about majoring on the minor and worrying about things not worth worrying about!

Countless millions of round of 45 ACP ammo was loaded for the US Govt, with a 230 FMJ bullet and 5/BE. More countless of millions of rounds of ammo has been loaded by handloaders over the past 100 years with 230 cast bullets and 4.7 or 4.8 BE.

Use the barrel as a bullet seating gage. Seat the bullets until the case head is flush with the back end of the barrel hood. Then make certain the rounds are not too long for the magazine. When that is done taper crimp the loaded round and go shooting. If the pistol has not been screwed up it will feed and fire the rounds with good accuracy. That is all their is too it.

The 45 ACP round holds no undiscovered secrets and I don't understand why folks seem to fret around about loading this almost ancient round.

I have personally loaded and fired (in 1911 pistols) 1/4 million rounds of 45 ACP ammo with cast bullets in the 200 - 240 range and 99% of them with Bullseye powder. The charge weight has varied from 4.5 to 4.9 grains of BE depending on the bullet weight. These are not powder puff target loads. I just laid in another 8 pounds

[MikeS]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using small primer brass. I just loaded 1500 rounds of 45ACP using small primer brass, and the few that I've already shot work exactly the same as large primer brass does. In reality there's no need for a large primer, as the case doesn't hold that much powder. The only hassle with using small primer brass is when using a progressive press, and getting small primer brass mixed in with large primer brass.

I see that you're new to reloading as well as casting, and you have a Dillon press. May I suggest that you put the Dillon on the back burner, and go out and buy a Lee Reloader press (that's their C press, their least expensive model) to start out with. When first learning reloading it's easy to make a mistake, and doing so in a progressive press means that you might make more flawed rounds before catching the error. I would use the Lee single stage press to learn with. When learning it's better to concentrate on making quality ammo, not quantity, and that's easier to do with a single stage press. Once you've gotten good at making ammo with the Lee press, then you can consider moving on to the progressive press. And even when you're competent at making ammo with the progressive press, it never hurts having a single stage press around. You mentioned that you sized the boolits with a Lee sizer, that right there is a perfect application to use a single stage press, you can keep it setup with the sizing die in it once you've started using the progressive press for your loading. Another use is for making small runs of test ammo, say you want to try a new powder, or even just a different loading of a current powder, or a different boolit style, etc.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with progressive presses, I'm just saying that they're NOT the press to start learning how to reload with. The Lee single stage press is fairly inexpensive, yet a perfectly usable press, so it makes sense to use one as the press you learn to reload with. I use a turret press to do most of my reloading with, I've never used a progressive press, but then I have lots of time on my hands, so if it takes a bit longer to reload 500 rounds, it doesn't matter. I must admit that I've been looking at the Dillon Square Deal B press for a while, but have yet to go beyond the looking phase. I also wouldn't mind finding a good deal on a used Dillon 450Jr press, it's sort of an odd duck using the frame of the 450, but the die setup of the Square Deal.

[Larry Gibson]

5.0 will be the equivalent of factory hardball.

That's the ticket with the 225 - 230 RN cast regardless of the mould make. I have shot thousands of them. The load is very consistent running 810 - 820 fps in just about every 5" M1911 I've chronographed them out of.

Larry Gibson

[Jammer Six]

Countless millions of round of 45 ACP ammo was loaded for the US Govt...
I've never read about what the U.S. government loaded, and I'd like to.

Do you have a citation for this?

[35remington]

milprileb, Bullseye "not metering accurately" is such an anomaly that I'd get that measure of yours looked at.

It is fine granuled, of uniform granule size, and has such a reputation for metering well from everyone that uses it that I'd opine that it's you, not the powder. Since W231 has more irregular grains and is actually coarser, there is no reason why W231 should be superior in "measurability" to it.

[HangFireW8]

I've never read about what the U.S. government loaded, and I'd like to.

Do you have a citation for this?

Philip B Sharpe, Complete Guide to Handloading

for one, but I'm not going to dig through 1,000+ pages right now to find it.

Sharpe was a Major in Army Intelligence, comparing enemy ordnance to our own, and even before that had visited all the major factories and arsenals. He had his own ballistics lab and was an expert witness in ballistics. He spoke from authority on everything he wrote.

-HF

[Larry Gibson]

I've never read about what the U.S. government loaded, and I'd like to.

Do you have a citation for this?

In addition to Phil Sharpe's book already mentioned any edition of Cartridges of the World or Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers also has the same data but specifically TM 9-1305-200, Small Arms Ammunition, dtd June 1961. Numerous other publications also list that data. Lyman's Castbullet Handbook #4 lists 5 gr Bullseye as max for the 225 gr 452374 and 5.1 gr Bullseye as max for the Lee TL452-230-TC.

My own pressure testing (Oehler M43) of several lots of 45 ACP US Ball gives psi(M43)s of 15,900 - 16,800, well under the SAAMI MAP of 21,000 psi.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

Thanks Larry... I just didn't care enough to hunt up book and page for the fellow. I guess I am getting lazy in my old age.

[Larry Gibson]

I guess I am getting lazy in my old age.

How well I resemble that:-D

Larry Gibson

[felix]

Me too! ... felix

[cbrick]

I agree completely with MikeS about learning to reload on a progessive. Is far better to learn reloading ONE STEP at a time and learn why & what for of each step.

Rick

[Char-Gar]

For what it is worth, count me amoung those who think a progressive press is the very worse choice a beginning handloader can make. Heck, I have been at this 50 plus years and I am afraid of the darn things!

[Joe216]

Yeah I agree, it didn't take me long to realize that running 7 operations at once isn't a good idea. So for now I'm just running 1 case at a time through the progressive and checking really well after each stage.

[geargnasher]

Yeah I agree, it didn't take me long to realize that running 7 operations at once isn't a good idea. So for now I'm just running 1 case at a time through the progressive and checking really well after each stage.

Smart idea, Joe, keep doing that One-at-a-time for a while, and get in the habit of checking the powder level in each and every case before seating a boolit. If you do that powder check from now on it will greatly reduce the odds of you ever having a problem. Lots of guns get blown up from no powder (stuck boolit in bore, shooter didn't clear before firing another), or from double-charges of light powders.

I, for one, fully recognize the added risks to using a progressive as your attention is split in as many ways as you have stations, but if you learn it well single-loading, get everything adjusted right, and get in the habit of making full handle strokes EVERY time, it's as safe as you make it. I have four progressives and wouldn't take for them, but I use them more to save hand movements than I do for speed.

Gear

[cbrick]

I agree Gear, I didn't mean to imply there's anything wrong with progessives, they are a great tool for those with experience and a need for one. It sends shivers down my back thinking of someone learning reloading on a progressive and his only thought is . . . How many an hour can I do? :roll:

Rick

[Jammer Six]

I learned carpentry with a skilsaw. I learned heavy equipment with hydraulics.

I learned reloading with a Square Deal B.

I can do all three the "old" way. Wouldn't have it any other way, in any of those cases.

[45pro]

I load 230g LRN with 5.1g of w231 at a OAL of 1.256. This is a very accurate load for me.

[prs]

I actually learned the foundations with muzzle loading flinters and cap'n ball revolvers, then shot shells on a semi-single stage type press, then metallic cartridge on turret and then progressive. When setting-up for a new cartridge or new variation of same round on progressive, I always begin running the press dry, then turret style (only one cartridge at a time) and then once all is clear, proressively. I visually check each cartridge for powder charge, but only weigh charges at the beginning and then every 100 there after (every box of primers). I don't worry about getting 1,000 rounds per hour and I have a routine that works for me. I STOP if a distraction occurs. I am human and I can make mistakes so I must be ever vigilant and must assume some risk in shooting my produce.

prs

[Lizard333]

As much as I gawked when I read not to use the progressive I have to agree. I learned to reload on a Rockchucker and then went to the Dillon 550 only after I learned with a single stage. If you don't have the funds to get another press you could always do one round at a time. More time consuming, but you are able to get familiar with the Dillon and learn the parts you need to watch. Place close attention to the automatic primer feed. New, the bar tends to stick so you don't get a primer to drop. Mess, mess, mess.

Using a powder that will cause the case to overflow with a double charge is a big help. Better to make a mess than kill your gun.

If you know someone that reloads, spend some time with them. Most reloaded are happy to help.

[Jammer Six]

If you know someone that reloads, spend some time with them. Most reloaded are happy to help.
The only time I made a mistake reloading was when I was talking to another reloader during the process.

Now I reload alone, and I don't answer the phone or the door.

[Alley Cat]

I've learned to look in every single case for the right amount of powder before seating a bullet. As long as you don't have either too much powder or not enough, you can avoid most serious reloading mistakes.

[ColColt]

I started out on an old Pacific C-type press and graduated to the RCBS Jr. I still have it and bought it back in the early 70's. I never could get into progressive reloading. For me there's too many avenues for potential and deadly mistakes and I don't take chances these days. Sure, single press reloading is slow but I'm from the South and we do things slow.

I never have squibs or double charges and don't use Bullseye for any reason. For those who love the progressive set up, that's the way to go if you like quantity but I had rather "know my limitations" and do it the old fashioned way. I'm never in a hurry to load quantity so the RCBS is fine for me. I can't say I wouldn't like a Dillon 550 but just a little "skeered" of it and the possible ramifications of a screw up.

[Lizard333]

I have probly loaded 50,000 rounds through my Dillon and have never had a double charge. Sure, primers have gotten missed and I have had a squib load a couple times, but the ease and speed far our weigh the few rounds that I goofed up.

Dillon sells a LOT of these presses and wouldn't sell them if they flowered ****. For bulk, high volume Plinker rounds you can't come close to it with a single stage.

I love reloading and the time I spend behind the press is definitely therapy. The time I spend with a 1911 is pure joy, and if I can save some time and spend more on the range, I will take the range time every time.

After all, if spend all of our time gathering lead, smelting it, casting, lubing, sizing, reloading, and we don't get to shoot, what's the point??

[jsizemore]

If you have a Dillon 550 you can use it as a single stage press, or as a turret press of sorts, or as a progressive. No need to own a dedicated single stage press unless you want to like me.