Best bullets/mould for 45/70

[dlbarr]

New guy here....

I have a NEF/H&R handi rifle in 45/70 and want to reload w/BP. My main interest in hunting and recreational shooting but not necessarily competition. WOuld appreciate input on the "best" bullets & moulds along with the accompanying loads for my application(s). Thanks in advance for any & all help.

[raingauge]

This will open a can of worms, good thing we're not opinionated. I shot a High Wall, had a Badger barrel, 1 in 20 twist, 45-100. The lyman 457125, about 525 grains, shot OK. The shorter Lyman, and I don't remember the number, was about 415 or so grains, it shot pretty well. I had Dave Farmer, at Hoch molds cut me a PP mold, weighed 415 grains, it shot pretty good. I do subscribe to the Greenhill formula, the PP mold was cut with that in mind.
2f was my powder of choice, I've never shot any of the substitutes. I tried 3f once, with the 525 grain bullets, 90+ grains Goex black, looking for "express" bullets, but found the smaller granuals did roughly as much damage to my shoulder as the bullet did to the backstop. Shoulder was a pretty purple and yellow ofter 6 shots, so I got other people to finish that box.
Good luck, it's a great hunting cartridge.

[dlbarr]

Raingauge, appreciate the feedback. Need some clarification: I don't know what a PP mould is, nor do I know what is the Greenhill formula. Thanks

[mpmarty]

Having three 45/70s to feed I've settled on the 350gr Ranch Dog mold and don't use black powder so no help there. The Ranch Dog boolit is accurate and has a nose as flat as a barn door so a good game stopper.

[longbow]

Well, I may not be a lot of help but I have had two .45-70's in the past ~ a Siamese Mauser converted from 8 x 57 rimmed to .45-70 and an 1895 Marlin.

I shot mostly Lyman 457125 500 gr. boolits in the Mauser but smokeless loads there.

I found the Marlin liked the Lyman 457124 at 385 grs. over BP or smokeless and I shot lots of both with that boolit. It seemed to shoot better than the 405 gr. flatpoint. I do not recall loads for smokeless with this one but with BP it was as much as the case would hold so 70 grs. +/- FFFg.

Also, don't forget that the Gould 330 gr. (Lyman 457122) was a popular boolit for hunting with BP and BP equivalent loads.

I tend to like heavy for caliber boolits but that 457124 shot very well for me and it is more like a mid weight boolit.

FWIW

Longbow

[Gelandangan]

I use NOE 500gn boolits and I could headshot rabbits all day with my Buff Classic H&R.

[littlejack]

dlbarr:
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
I shoot a Uberti Hiwall in 45-70. Glad to hear you are going to shoot the charcoal.
The first thing SOME folks say, is that bp is hard to clean up and leade people to think that it
will rust the bore quickly. Hog wash. Just clean your bore after each shooting session with
soapy water, or a 10-1 ratio of water and soluble oil. Dry the bore, then run an oily patch
through it and your rifle will be fine. Thee is NO advantage to shooting the substitutes.
I shoot the 457125 boolit also, cast of 20-1 alloy and lubed with the Emmerts revised recipe
with 10* lanolin.
The boolits drops at 522 grains, and weighs 522 grains.
I use 70 grains of Goex 2F dropped and compressed with one .040 wad over the powder
and one newsprint paper between the wad and boolit base to keep the wad from sticking to
the base of the boolit. Do not crimp, just take out the mouth bell.
This load shoots very well in my Uberti, but will back you up some in your Handi rifle.
You may want to shoot a lighter boolit. Have fun and enjoy.
Jack

[NickSS]

I have been shooting 45-70s for something like 45+ years and have tried innumerable cast bullets in them Right now I own 14 45-70s of different styles and makes including trap doors, Sharps 1874s and 1875 models and a Ballard Pacific rifle. I have owned at least a half dozen other makes as well so I think I know what works for me in them. For hunting and lever actions I use two bullets one is a RCBS 45-325-FP and the other is the 405 gr Lyman. They work just fine in my Marlin 1895 and Winchester 1886 Rifles as well as my single shots. My favorite bullet of all time for short range target shooting is the Lyman 457124 385 gr bullet. It carries enough lube and is exceedingly accurate in just about every rifle I have owned. For long range target and metallic silhouette I have used several bullets including the Lyman 457125 500 gr, Postel 535 gr, and Sacco 535 gr. I liked the Postel the best so bought a Brooks mold and thats what I use now. As for black powder loads that is hard to define as each of my rifles seams to like a slightly different load with the same bullet. The best advice I can give you is to start with a load that fills the case leaving just enough room to seat the bullet with maybe 1/16 inch of compression with a card wad between the bullet and the powder. Make sure to use a BP lube or you will have nothing but problems. If that load shoots good all well and fine if not add a bit more powder and compress it a bit more until you find a sweet spot for load and bullet. Different brands of BP require different compression rates. I use mostly GOEX FFG for most of my shooting and I load my Silhouette loads with my postel bullet with anything from 61 gr up to 67 gr for different rifles that I shoot with and mostly seat the bullet with all the lube grooves in the case. Compression varies from .03 to .34 inch depending upon which rifle I am shooting so experiment with what your rifle likes.

[nicholst55]

Raingauge, appreciate the feedback. Need some clarification: I don't know what a PP mould is, nor do I know what is the Greenhill formula. Thanks

PP = Paper Patch

Greenhill Formula (http://www.google.nr/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=greenhill+formula+calculator&pbx=1&oq=greenhill+formula&aq=1&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=0l0l1l396l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=ec032bd6eb9f2f9a&biw=1280&bih=675) In a nutshell, this indicates that with a 1:20" twist barrel you're going to need a bullet somewhere between 400-500 grains to stabilize it. A lot of folks shoot lighter bullets with acceptable accuracy. Much over 500 grains and you'll probably need a faster twist.

I've got the same rifle, and I was shooting a 405 grain RN with 70 grains of Goex 2F. Do yourself a favor, and do some research before you jump in. BPCR (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) is a whole different animal than shooting lead with smokeless.

[StrawHat]

...New guy here...

Welcome to the forum and casting.



...and want to reload w/BP. My main interest in hunting and recreational shooting but not necessarily competition...

I have used a variety of 45-70s over the years and for what you are wanting, hunting and recreation, I would recommend a sopy of the Gould bullet mold but with a second spud so you can cast solids and hollow points. The hollow points for hunting and the solids for practice and recreation. The Lyman numbers for the Gould are 457122 and there are clones of it by other companies. A two cavity would be nice but two separate molds would also work.

[Duckdog]

I like the Lee 340 and 405 gr bullets, which are both a FN design. IN my NEF, I use 30 gr of XMP5744 and 32 gr of the same for the 340. These are very accurate. The 405 is at 1325 fps chronographed and the 340 is at 1525 fps chronographed.

[adrians]

in the past i have used my lyman 457124 and my 457125 both do pretty good in the trapdoor ,my trap likes the former mould (405 grns).
i'm toying with the idea of getting the Lee hollow base mold to give that a try ,iv'e heard it does good things in an old tired barrel.
that ofcourse is not a problem for you as your rifleing is prolly very well defined, but it's worth looking into..

:twisted::coffee::evil:

[cajun shooter]

I had a great answer for you and then I read the post by NickSS. I will give his post a huge +1+1. Best to you David

[44man]

Something to make life easier! [smilie=s:
Carry a jug of soapy water to the range. We usually de-prime brass with a hand tool and toss the fired brass into the jug. Makes cleanup at home much easier.

[Wayne Smith]

How well do you handle recoil? This becomes a real issue with this cartridge in a light rifle. Yours is not heavy! The bigger the boolit the more recoil.

I would recommend that you start with one of the 300+ gr molds, and I would endorse the Gould simply because it is the original light 45-70 boolit designed for the Eastern deer hunter. I would then try one or two of the 405 range boolits, maybe, if you can find some, the 460420 that was a group buy here a while ago. I would recommend you beg, borrow, or steal some 500+ gr boolits and shoot them before you decide to buy the mold. Unless you really like recoil I don't think you will want to spring for the mold!

For brass cleaning get either some ceramic media or some of the ss media and wet clean with one of those. It cleans the brass well and quickly.

[stubert]

I have a Marlin GG, It loves the RCBS 45-405 that I had hollow pointed by Buckshot. It weighs 390 gr. now, and it shines in the Marlin with a load of 3031. Plenty of weight left for hunting, and a hollow point for knocking them down.

[dlbarr]

Wayne, to answer your question about how I handle recoil: it depends. And you are correct, the HR is light. Out of the box, the recoil nearly killed me. That gun was no fun to shoot any modern load I could find. I installed a limb-saver pad and that helped some but it eventually deteriorated. A gunsmith suggested that there was no better recoil pad than the Kick-eez brand so I had him install that one, which was a considerable improvement. So now I tolerate recoil so-so to OK.

Now, admittedly, I am the one who asked for input here....but I have read some stuff that indicates a need for a heavier bullet (when propelled by BP) in the HR. Which I guess goes along with this Greenhill formula(??) I recognize there are many schools of thought in any endeavor but am questioning the <400gr bullet recommendations here. But I'm certainly open to listening to the rationale if people are having success shooting a combination of BP and lighter bullets from the HR. Thanks

[raingauge]

http://stevespages.com/twist_451_to_700.html If you google Greenhill formula, it will tell you more than you want to know. The formula has helped me with BPC.