Lyman 358432 WC crimp?

[eddie56]

I just got a Lyman 358432 WC mold.It has 3 drive bands and no crimp groove.It is my understanding this mold was made for 38 auto pistols.I intend to use it in a S&W 686-3.The question i have is do i need a crimp?How would i crimp this Boolit?I intend to run these with a very light load.Any thoughts on a good powder would also be helpful.Thanks.

[eddie56]

Forgot this is a 160 gn. WC.

[lbaize3]

With a light load a very good taper crimp would work well. If your alloy is not super hard, you can crimp into the boolit with a roll crimp. I have always used a medium to heavy crimp on any cartridge I use in a revolver. Good luck...

[MT Gianni]

I had always considered that the 35863 Double ended wadcutter [DEWC] was made for the auto pistols. That boolit crimps over the front edge. I lube two grooves on the 358432 and run a light crimp in the bottom edge of the lube groove.

[eddie56]

I am going to use a crimp for sure.But an artical i read said that boolit was made to crimp over the top.And i was not sure just what they ment by that.I am not sure how that would hold the boolit in place against set back.Also with a lite load a taper crimp would be enough to keep it in place.As far as to it being made for the auto pistol goes i was just going by what they wrote.Thanks for the input.

[runfiverun]

you'll have plenty of neck tension i doubt you will need a crimp.
i actually leave some case flare on the mouth to help center the case,and only partially size the case.

[Dale53]

A number of years ago, I was shooting lots of PPC and had access to a Ransom Rest. I ran a bunch of tests with the .38 Special and .357 revolvers we were using. I determined to my satisfaction that a light taper crimp shot more accurately than a roll crimp.

I have an H&G Six Cavity mould for the #251 dbl ended w/c bullet. I use a light taper crimp. In my revolver, I seat the first band out to help line up the bullet in the cylinder throat and taper crimp on the rear of the first band. Solid lead wadcutters shoot better with a bit more powder than the old favorite of 2.7 grs of Bullseye. I use 3.2-3.5 grs of Bullseye or equivalent for best results at fifty yards.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-0190.jpg


FWIW
Dale53

[rintinglen]

The 358-432 is the mold I learned to cast with. It is a fine general purpose revolver boolit for 38's and midrange 357.
Mine is a Lachmiller 38-148 copy, but it looks the same as the shorter version Lyman put out--Lyman made it in two weights, nominally 148 and 160 grains. It has 2 lube grooves and a crimp groove and was designed to be crimped in the crimp groove. However, I have shot it extensively over 2.7 Bullseye, 3.2 grains WW-231, loaded as a flush-nose wad cutter. I also shot up four of the old 8 pound cardboard tubes Hercules used to ship powder in while using 4 grains of old style Red Dot and roll crimping in the crimping groove (do not use this load with current "improved" Red Dot--it will exceed SAAMI specs by a fair margin according to Alliant--so much for their claims of "improving but not changing").
This was my general purpose load for 38's, shooting better than SWC"s in my experience, and hitting harder than round-nose. I mangled a fair few Jacks with these out by the Salton Sea in the late 70's and used it in my guns at the old Oceanside Pistol Club Matches that Bill Hahn used to run there. I eventually drifted away from it, finding a 3 Cavity Cramer 16H at a yard sale that made more boolits per cast. Then I got an H & G 4 cavity 50 that is my mainstay for WC loads today. Regardless, if a 4 cavity Lyman were to cross my path I'd give over a couple or 3 double saw-bucks to bring it home.
ps, Dale I'm jealous--it twere guns like yours that put me out of the game--I wanted one, but couldn't afford it.

[eddie56]

Nice gun for sure Dale!I like to shoot long distance mostly but I figured I would give the WC a try.Sounds to me like it works fine a lot of different ways.Thats good I can play around with it more that way.I never tried Bullseye As I mostly run 2400 in my 686.But it sounds like I may have to give it a try.

[cajun shooter]

I have loaded thousands of 38 WC rounds as a police range officer. My average was 10,000 a month on the Camdex which is a great machine.
I almost had to disagree with Dale until I did a more intense reading which reveled the words solid WC. I agree on what he said 100%.
I have yet to load any better shooting WC than the Speer 148Gr HBWC. We held PPC matches every week during the warm months and had shooters from Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas. Although we didn't have the shooters like Jackson, Mississippi we had the same shooters.
I saw some of the best shoot 1500 scores which is only a dream for most.
This is not off subject as I'm setting up my answer. Try the speer or similar bullet with the powder that was loaded with it and that was Bullseye or 230 which was changed to 231.
The light crimp just over the edge has proved with the Ransom Rest and my gun to be the best. Others will have their own and they all must be tried to find what you want.
As far as shooting with the PPC gun, you may shoot the service class which requires only a S&W 6 inch in various models. No Bomar ribs or custom parts but stock with action work OK.

[Dale53]

rintinglen;
That S&W Model 14 was won by a friend in a pistol match. He sold it to me at a VERY good price (the gun, as issued). I installed the Bomar rib and the wide, flat, combat trigger (it was a drop in), tuned the action and I was on my way. It wasn't a full fledged PPC gun but competed quite nicely with them.

cajun shooter;
I shot a good bit of PPC with the local police department. They won the National Championship one year and the Chief was a Master pistol shot. The Chief paired up with my buddy (a Homicide Detective) and they were a near unbeatable team. We hosted the matches in this area and my club provided the range personnel so that all of the local department could compete. I was the scorer.

The best ammo I ever saw was the factory Remington HBWC load. Off the Ransom Rest, it would group just over ½" at 25 yards in a good revolver. My best reloads (with solid w/c's wouldn't quite equal it but it was pretty good too at 3/4" at 25 yards). I understand the current crop of Factory Wadcutter ammo won't hold a candle to that old ammo. At least, that's what Ed Harris reports his tests show.

I no longer compete but still shoot a good bit. Because of vision problems I mostly shoot Red Dot sights and am shooting nearly as good as when I was at my peak. Life is GOOD!

Dale53

FWIW
Dale53

[35remington]

I have the 358432 in the 160 grain variant.

I think you need to look at your bullet again. It has two lube grooves. The top groove is a beveled crimp groove.

A considerable amount of the bullet is designed to be out of the case. Glen Fryxell calls this a "type III" wadcutter.

I call it a "semiwadcutter wadcutter." It is not designed to be seated nearly flush with the case mouth. The portion of the bullet above the crimp groove has a slight shoulder and is subcaliber.

Again, the top groove is the crimp groove.

Crimp there. You may use data similar to the 158 SWC, as this bullet does not, and is not, designed to seat as deeply in the case as more common wadcutter designs.

This bullet was not intended for auto pistols, nor for flush seating. It was and is intended for revolvers, while maximizing case capacity in the wadcutter type shape.

[eddie56]

Wow i figured it to be "type I" I do see the crimp groove now!I have not cast with this mold yet or i may have caught that.That puts a hole new light on this Boolit.How does it shoot for you.I am just looking for a fair amount of accuracy out of it.Not match grade.

[35remington]

It shoots just fine. You're not going to be making a 300 yard plinking load out of it, but for most shots you will actually hit it will serve well.

[williamwaco]

A number of years ago, I was shooting lots of PPC and had access to a Ransom Rest. I ran a bunch of tests with the .38 Special and .357 revolvers we were using. I determined to my satisfaction that a light taper crimp shot more accurately than a roll crimp.

I have an H&G Six Cavity mould for the #251 dbl ended w/c bullet. I use a light taper crimp. In my revolver, I seat the first band out to help line up the bullet in the cylinder throat and taper crimp on the rear of the first band. Solid lead wadcutters shoot better with a bit more powder than the old favorite of 2.7 grs of Bullseye. I use 3.2-3.5 grs of Bullseye or equivalent for best results at fifty yards.



FWIW
Dale53


Agree completely, The crimp on a .38 special target load should be barely visible.

See:

http://www.reloadingtips.com/how_to/crimping_revolvers.htm

for examples.

Scroll down to the 9th photo. The one described as a light roll crimp.
Then click on the photo to expand it. The crimp is not as deep as the lighting makes it look in the unexpanded photo.


.

[TrapperXX]

I just acquired this exact mold. Probably from the late 60'sor so. Great condition, no rust.
any recommendations for a load with clays or universal clays for 38 special?
In researching it tonight I read elsewhere that it does crimp in the front band