Cast Boolit Tight Chambering.

[fishnbob]

I bought a #36 175R mold in .35 Rem from Accurate Molds and when I loaded it in a .35 Rem case trimmed to "Trim to Length" of 1.910" the front driving band cuts into the rifling to make it hard to close the lever on my Marlin 336. Someone here suggested I trim the brass short enough to keep the boolit from touching the rifling. I had to trim it .032" to make it chamber smoothly w/o hitting the rifling. When I went to crimp it with the Lee FCD, it wouldn't crimp. I contacted Lee and they advised me that I had trimmed the case below SAAMI specs. They said that 0.20"was the most trim length you could make on a case and meet SAMMI Specs. This brings the case length to 1.900" and I am trimming mine .032" off the trim to length of 1.910" to make it 1.878" long. Lee advised me to contact the Powder company and see if my load is safe. I don't think the powder company will sign off on anything that is not in the book. What suggestions do you have? Is lengthening the chamber a viable alternative? Then I could trim all brass to 1.910" and set the dies and seat & crimp both jacketed and cast boolits. The cast boolits would finish out shorter than factories or jacketed reloads due to differences in crimp ring location. All I would have to change would be the seating stem. The other alternative would be to trim brass shorter for cast. I don't favor the idea of having to keep the brass separate. What's yore opinion?

[mpmarty]

Get a crimp die for a shorter cartridge in 35 cal with a large enough body to accept the 35 Remington.

[btroj]

This is why we work up loads for each gun individually. You can start a few grains below max for that bullet weight and work up. The slightly shorter OAL may means you cant use the max charge listed. I also like to use a chronograph for this type of work up if getting close to max charges. If you get to max velocity listed in the manual but are below max charge I say stop. In your gun with that load you are at about max pressure.

For cast if you are staying with low velocity loads it doesn't matter one bit. I have trimmed many 30-30 cases short for the same reason and I use them just fine.

Stay below max charges and you will be fine. Be smart and you will stay safe.

[geargnasher]

Keep in mind for next time that you can make a chamber cast before ordering the mould and discuss those measurements with Tom via E-mail so you could have had a design perfectly fitted to your gun for the same money.

I'm wondering, do you HAVE to crimp these in the crimp groove? Maybe single-load them or rolll-crimp somewhere in the middle of the first driving band?

Gear

[Larry Gibson]

See if the regular seating die will put a roll crimp on the shortened cases. Remove the seating stem and turn the die in to crimp on an unloaded case. It may crimp the shortened cases before the case shoulder bumps into the die shoulder. If the shoulders bump before crimping this won't work. The shell holder may also hit the bottom of the die before crimping the short cases or before shoulder contact. Set a flat piece of steel over the shell holder and push the case in until it crimps of bumps into the shoulder. If the case sticks in the die pu**** out with a rod. If it crimps you can remove .032" from the bottom of the seating die and you are set to go.

Larry Gibson

[fishnbob]

Keep in mind for next time that you can make a chamber cast before ordering the mould and discuss those measurements with Tom via E-mail so you could have had a design perfectly fitted to your gun for the same money.

I'm wondering, do you HAVE to crimp these in the crimp groove? Maybe single-load them or rolll-crimp somewhere in the middle of the first driving band?

Gear

This was my 1st attempt at casting for a rifle and I did not think of this. I have tried crimping in front of the band and the band thickness plus the case neck thickness wouldn't begin to chamber and using a shortened case, I couldn't hit the backstop, muchless the target.
Marty, btroj, gear & Larry, thanks for your comments. All offer a solution and I appreciate it. I do plan on staying on the low side of powder as I think that is where the accuracy will come from. And Larry, I did get the die to crimp on a shortened case. Since I have 2 die sets, I'll set one up for cast & short brass and the other for jacketed reloads. Again, thanks, you boys amaze me.:drinks:

[fishnbob]

BTW, is there a thread on making a cast on a chamber, especially the Marlin? How 'bout a thread on HAND LAPPING A RIFLE BARREL? I've got info on Fire Lapping Pistols and I've accomplished that. I need info on Hand Lapping.

[leadman]

btroj, did you mean a couple grains below STARTING or MAX loads? I would think it would be starting loads.

[felix]

Being a 35 Remington, I would not worry about SAMMI specs. The specs are very low for any modern gun. If the boolit did not go below the neck any more than a fraction, I would not even worry in the least about using book loads. Just be careful with old guns, though. ... felix

[geargnasher]

BTW, is there a thread on making a cast on a chamber, especially the Marlin? How 'bout a thread on HAND LAPPING A RIFLE BARREL? I've got info on Fire Lapping Pistols and I've accomplished that. I need info on Hand Lapping.

There are several, the one that comes immediately to mind is somewhere in the smokeless paper-patch forum, I think it was involving a .35 Remington and the thread wandered to the chamber casting subject.

I prefer to make impact slugs of the chamber and throat, especially in leverguns.

To make one, take a case that was fired in your rifle and fill it to at least halfway up the neck with wheel weight metal. The easiest way to do this is with needle-nose pliers and your casting pot, just dunk it in there for about five seconds to get it hot, let lead run inside, and pour out a tiny bit to leave room to seat a boolit. Next, cast some pure lead boolits in your heaviest-for-caliber mould, preferably a "bore rider" design. They don't have to be pretty, just mostly filled out. Rather than changing alloy in the pot I use a spoon and propane torch to melt a small amount of pure lead to make a few castings from a cold mould. Clean and lightly oil your chamber and oil or wax the cartridge case and pure lead boolit. Stick the boolit in the case, chamber the whole mess (a plastic mallet will help close the breech bolt on leverguns). Take a steel or brass rod with blunt ends that will go in the barrel, wrap it in electrical tape, slip it in the muzzle end of the barrel, and pound it with a hammer using light but firm taps. This will forge the lead boolit into the exact shape of the leade. To get the slug out, gently open the breech just a hair while tapping GENTLY on the rod to help extract the slug without dislodging the boolit from the case or swelling the end of the slug.

Gear

[runfiverun]

just use the shell holder to close the crimper and hold the case in from the top.

[geargnasher]

just use the shell holder to close the crimper and hold the case in from the top.

Yous a clever sunuvagun, you know that?

Gear

[fishnbob]

just use the shell holder to close the crimper and hold the case in from the top.

I was on top of everything until I read the above statement, now I'm lost as Hogan's Goat. :oops::veryconfu

[jblee10]

just use the shell holder to close the crimper and hold the case in from the top.

Yeah, I'm lost too. Can you explain this?

[mpmarty]

Must be talking about a collet type crimper

[rond]

Lee factory crimp die has 4 fingers that come together to crimp the case, activated by the shell holder. You can place the round into the fingers from the top of the die, bullet down, and crimp the case that way.

[fishnbob]

WELL, DUH! Thanks rond, I got 'er now!

[jblee10]

Yes, thank you rond! I have some Lee handgun crimp dies, but no rifle crimp dies. I just could figure it out, ha.

[DonH]

Right up front I will admit that I have never used a Lee factory crimp die. The reason(s)?
If this is such a necesary thing why did none of the other esteemed die makers ever figure this out? Easy now, don't shoot yet! In my years of reloading the only times I have not been able attain a suitable crimp were the occasions when I was better served by using taper crimp die.
Were I not able to properly crimp due to a too-long seating die I would simply shorten the die. The idea of carefully casting a bullet, sizing it correctly to my barrel/throat then using the Lee die to crush the case into the bullet thus deforming it. This has always sounded like a solution to a non-existent problem.
Proper bullet fit to throat/groove dia., proper neck tension and just enough crimp when needed, huh? Worth a try!

[happyret65]

I've never had good results crimping and stopped doing after a few attempts. I don't use gas checks, never resize and always stay under 1600. Lyman's reloading book doesn't recommend to crimp cast bullets either.

[HeavyMetal]

my thought is to do one of two things Take .020 off the top off the shell holder with a surface grider or take .020 off the sliding 'actuator" ( I have no idea what lee calls it) that triggers the finger to squeeze the collet and crimp the case.

Because you may want to use the same die for both cast and jacketed I would then grind a spare shell holder and call it a day.

[fishnbob]

I've never had good results crimping and stopped doing after a few attempts. I don't use gas checks, never resize and always stay under 1600. Lyman's reloading book doesn't recommend to crimp cast bullets either.

The mold I am using has a crimp groove and that is what I am crimping in to. There is a driving band in front of it and the thickness of it is what is creating the chambering problem. So I shortened it up (OAL) by trimming the brass and I had to trim shorter than the SAAMI specs which stopped the FCD from crimping. I need to crimp 'cause the ol' 35 rem recoils the boolits in the tube back in the case. If I don't trim too far, like keep the trim to length to 1.878", I can taper crimp the case using the TC Die. Problem solved.;)