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View Full Version : Cavity's on new Lee mold pitted



sig2009
01-12-2012, 08:56 PM
Just cast up some 40's with the Lee 6 cavity mold today. Interesting to see that the initial cast the bullets were spotless. Then I happen to notice about an hour later the bullets started to look speckled. I looked at the cavity's on the mold and to my suprise all of the cavity's were pitted. Is this normal? I checked my 45 acp Lee 6 cavity and sure enough all the cavity's were pitted. Again is this normal with the Lee molds?

rond
01-12-2012, 09:14 PM
None of my Lee molds are pitted. Don't know what would cause this, something reacting with the metal?

sig2009
01-13-2012, 09:26 AM
So no one with Lee molds has ever seen this before?

milprileb
01-13-2012, 09:49 AM
If you have a issue with a Lee mold, send it back. THey always
made things right with any molds I sent back for attention.

Lee is darn responsive from my experience.

45-70 Chevroner
01-13-2012, 09:49 AM
I've got 4 Lee six cavity molds in 45 cal. 38 cal. and 22 cal. and none of them have any pitting. I've also got 12 double and single cavity Lee molds and no pitting.

Lee Precision's Phone number is (1-262-673-3075) like milprileb said Lee is very good about taking care of your problems with thier equipment.

sundog
01-13-2012, 10:57 AM
sig2009, can you post picture(s)? Mould and boolits.

sig2009
01-13-2012, 12:34 PM
sig2009, can you post picture(s)? Mould and boolits.

Too late. Spoke with service dept at Lee today. Said he had never seen this before. Said the only thing that would cause that would be some kind of acid. Told me to send it back to check out. I will post some pics of the 45 acp pitted mold later.

Elkins45
01-13-2012, 12:44 PM
Are you sure they are actual pits? You may just be seeing patches of oxidization where the Al has passivated itself.

runfiverun
01-13-2012, 01:04 PM
pitting would show up on the boolits themselves.

sig2009
01-13-2012, 01:15 PM
pitting would show up on the boolits themselves.

It does. You don't even see the machineing marks anymore

williamwaco
01-13-2012, 01:40 PM
I have been casting since the 1950's I have never seen pitting in any bullet mold except old scrap molds found at gun shows. They were not caused by casting. They were caused by rust.

I am really curious to know what is happening here.




.

mstarling
01-13-2012, 02:13 PM
Aluminum is attacked by strong bases like sodium hydroxide. Makes aluminum hydroxide which is a water soluble gel like material.

Have not seen it in the Lee molds I have used.

Glad Lee is evaluating it. Hope they replace it for you.

Good to clean the heck out of a mold before you use ti.

sig2009
01-13-2012, 02:37 PM
sig2009, can you post picture(s)? Mould and boolits.

Here are pics of the bullets cast and mold. First pic is the original cast bullet on the left. On the right is the cast bullet after about 2,000 rounds cast.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/jsenuta/IMGP0920.jpg


Pic of the pitted mold cavities.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/jsenuta/IMGP0922.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/jsenuta/IMGP0924.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/jsenuta/IMGP0925.jpg

mdi
01-13-2012, 03:31 PM
Interesting. I have 3 Lee molds with no pits. Newest is about 2 years old and oldest is from the 90s. I don't put anything in any of my molds except molten lead...

sig2009
01-13-2012, 03:34 PM
Well the 40 S&W mold is in the mail back to Lee. Have the same problem with the 45 acp and 9mm molds also. Hopefully Lee will have an answer and replacement for all 3 molds.

geargnasher
01-13-2012, 03:51 PM
WOW! I've never seen that before, good pics BTW.

The rest of the mould looks to be in good shape and well taken-care of, I'm wondering if the aluminum reacted to a caustic cleanser at some point and got softened or eroded.

Lee never has used the best alloys for their moulds, and I'm sure they make purchases based mostly on cost, so there's no telling what alloy their supplier used for these particular extrusions.

Gear

sig2009
01-13-2012, 04:06 PM
WOW! I've never seen that before, good pics BTW.

The rest of the mould looks to be in good shape and well taken-care of, I'm wondering if the aluminum reacted to a caustic cleanser at some point and got softened or eroded.

Lee never has used the best alloys for their moulds, and I'm sure they make purchases based mostly on cost, so there's no telling what alloy their supplier used for these particular extrusions.

Gear

Thanks Gear. The pics were from a 40 S&W mold I just got from Natchez the other day. It was brand new. You can see the example of the first bullet I cast and it was spotless. 2,000 bullets later the one on the right looked like ****. I was so excited seeing how beautiful the first cast came out. The machining marks on the cavity have now become virtually obliterated. I cleaned and preped the mold with non chlorinated break cleaner Birchwood Casey and them smoked the mold. That was it!

Iron Mike Golf
01-13-2012, 05:39 PM
Wow! I was wondering if they had been lapped with Bar Keepers Friend and left to sit wet. It has oxalic acid and that will etch things (I left a stainless steel teaspoon in some overnight) and also remove bluing. But it sure sounds like your mold prep is blameless.

You didn't have anything uncommon in your alloy, did you?

mpmarty
01-13-2012, 07:22 PM
Did you by chance use acid core solder to add tin to your melt?

leadman
01-13-2012, 08:13 PM
You may want to see what the ingredients are in the brake cleaner. It could be a chemical that changes when heated. And mpmarty may have something there. I added acid core solder to a pot of smelting WW. Took quite awhile to burn off the acid and alot of fluxing. The acid tended to stay on the top and smoke and stink. The cover to my pot also rusted overnight which is unusual here in Az.

A little story as what can happen when aluminum meets a strong alkali cleaner like Purple Power Walmart sells in the auto section.

I was still a mechanic working on City of Phx garbage trucks. Had an old truck the a/c was not blowing cold so the boss said check it out. Found the evaporator core in the cab of the truck was plugged solid with dirt (not unusual) but we had no new cores 'cuz they weren't made anymore. So boss said to try to clean it. I grabbed a 5 gal bucket, filled it with purple soap, put the core in it and then went to lunch. When we came back there was foam coming out of the bucket so dumped it out. What was left of the fins were really clean! LOL. Put it back in and it cooled, but I don't recommend this cleaning method.

DLCTEX
01-13-2012, 08:21 PM
Alloy have any reclaimed battery lead in it? With a number of moulds with different manufacturing dates it makes me think it is something external working here.

sig2009
01-13-2012, 09:28 PM
Did you by chance use acid core solder to add tin to your melt?

Range lead from indoor range and some linotype.

sig2009
01-13-2012, 09:36 PM
Alloy have any reclaimed battery lead in it? With a number of moulds with different manufacturing dates it makes me think it is something external working here.

No way of knowing if there is any battery lead in there. If that is the case then I will not be using range lead anymore to cast with and I'll just have to throw it out. Guess this should be a no no for anyone buying range lead from anyone here in the forum that sells it.

Recluse
01-13-2012, 11:36 PM
So no one with Lee molds has ever seen this before?

Nope. That's a first for me as well.

I do know that a LOT of cleaners are not friendly to aluminum--cleaners like Simple Green, 409, that purple stuff, Scrubbing Bubbles, etc.

Many years ago, we used to use Scrubbing Bubbles to clean the underbelly of our airplane. Then we found out it was corrosive as hell to aluminum.

I've got a number of Lee molds of varying vintage. I cleaned them out, initially, with hot boiling soapy water (Dawn dish detergeant), Lee-mented them, then cleaned out with isopropyl alcohol (91%), then dipped the mold into the hot alloy to cook off any remaining solvents in the mold.

Hmmmm.

That pitting, especially with it happening some several thousand boolit casting later looks a bit like galvanic corrosion. How is your sprue plate--any pitting or rust or corrosion on it/them? Has the mold come into contact with any other fluids or water? And finally, where do you live and how has the relative humidity been?

:coffee:

prs
01-14-2012, 12:28 AM
I have bunches of Lee 6 cavity moulds and I just looked at all of them. They all show no wear or change in cavities and even the really heavily used ones still have the cnc tool marks visible. If it was the billet blanks Lee uses, many of us would see the flaw; but one guy seeing it in more than one mould?? I would agree that exposure to some chemicle is at hand here and brake cleaner could be it or a base or acid cleaning agent. Lee may replace it, but beware; it will happen again if the cause is not eliminated.

prs

dromia
01-14-2012, 04:47 AM
I look forward to seeing what Lee say.

Does seem to be something external to the mould.

Interesting your comment on Simple Green Recluse, I've been using it diluted for cleaning moulds with great effect and haven't noticed a problem yet. In saying that my moulds usually only get cleaned the once when bought and are then kept oil free.

mroliver77
01-14-2012, 07:02 AM
New one on me also. A couple of my Lee moulds have a lot of use and are still in fine shape. I find it very curious that moulds of accumulated at different times all have the same symptoms.

You said Birchwood Casey after the Brakeclean. What was that?

Before I found out that batteries should not be used I smelted and cast a few lbs of it. No harm to my Lee moulds. Lee is all I had to start out with. I have used acid core solder, flux core solder, babbit, pewter, range scrap, WW, roof flashing with tar on it, lead water pipe, reclaimed solder from radiator repair, lead phone cable sheathing and lots of unknown alloy from the scrap yard without harming a mould.

I want answers also!!!
Jay

sig2009
01-14-2012, 10:33 AM
I look forward to seeing what Lee say.

Does seem to be something external to the mould.

Interesting your comment on Simple Green Recluse, I've been using it diluted for cleaning moulds with great effect and haven't noticed a problem yet. In saying that my moulds usually only get cleaned the once when bought and are then kept oil free.

Simple Green is not supposed to be used on aluminum. I think it even says on the instructions.

sig2009
01-14-2012, 10:34 AM
New one on me also. A couple of my Lee moulds have a lot of use and are still in fine shape. I find it very curious that moulds of accumulated at different times all have the same symptoms.

You said Birchwood Casey after the Brakeclean. What was that?

Before I found out that batteries should not be used I smelted and cast a few lbs of it. No harm to my Lee moulds. Lee is all I had to start out with. I have used acid core solder, flux core solder, babbit, pewter, range scrap, WW, roof flashing with tar on it, lead water pipe, reclaimed solder from radiator repair, lead phone cable sheathing and lots of unknown alloy from the scrap yard without harming a mould.

I want answers also!!!
Jay

Birchwood Casey is a gun cleaner that is non chlorinated, plastic safe to use for cleaning barrels and frames.

HangFireW8
01-14-2012, 10:42 AM
I've seen what looks like pitting on a new Lee mold recently. What it really was is galling from their cutting tool. Of course boolits did not want to release so back it went and they sent me a good one.

Good luck trying to get Lee to admit anything was ever wrong. If you ask them all problems are due to users, usually lack of lube. They have never heard of bullplate.

dromia
01-14-2012, 01:34 PM
Simple Green is not supposed to be used on aluminum. I think it even says on the instructions.

Well I've never noticed that, I'll need to dig them out and give them a re-read. Thanks for the pointer.

Reload3006
01-14-2012, 01:57 PM
It has never happened to me on molds but Lee uses Steel and Al .. I have Lee molds and like them but dissimilar metals depending on the environment will corrode ... Bimetallic corrosion the Aluminum will pit badly.

Maven
01-14-2012, 04:21 PM
I've seen what looks like pitting on a new Lee mold recently. What it really was is galling from their cutting tool. Of course boolits did not want to release so back it went and they sent me a good one..

My thoughts exactly Hang-Fire!

All, I often use Simple Green to degrease things, meehanite (iron) and aluminum molds included. In fact, I used it on a Lee mold not 20 mins. ago*. Do I leave it in the cavity for more than a minute? No. Has it resulted in any discernable damage? Not one bit.


* I dip an old toothbrush in Simple Green, full strength, scrub the cavity/cavities, and rinse and dry the mold.

sig2009
01-23-2012, 04:59 PM
Well I just got a brand new Lee replacement 6 cavity mold after sending the other one back to Lee. Here are the results of the service department as they stated.

"We have never seen this before. It's likely that some lead had stuck to the inside of the cavities which would have produced pits in your bullets. We also cannot tell what caused your original problem. This mold is ready to use."

So there you go. Funny though I looked at the cavities and hit them with a torch to see if it was lead sticking to the inside of the cavities and nothing came off. Lee replaced the mold for free and also smoked the cavities for me.

HangFireW8
01-23-2012, 05:11 PM
All, I often use Simple Green to degrease things, meehanite (iron) and aluminum molds included. In fact, I used it on a Lee mold not 20 mins. ago*. Do I leave it in the cavity for more than a minute? No. Has it resulted in any discernable damage? Not one bit.

I just found this:

http://www.simplegreen.com/solutions_faqs.php?search_query=aluminum

scroll to bottom: "The aqueous-base and alkalinity of Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner can accelerate the corrosion process. Therefore, contact times for unprotected or unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will allow - never for more than 10 minutes. "

Short answer- not for more than 10 minutes, can accelerate oxidation. Interesting. I've used it before as well. Now I'm reconsidering.

Maven, at 1 minute, you should be fine, especially with a good rinse, as you said.


-HF

dromia
01-24-2012, 02:17 AM
That explains why I've never had a problem with it then, I just soak a bit, scrub and wash off, the whole thing takes less than 5 minutes.

Will continue using it as it works well.

HangFireW8
01-24-2012, 08:28 PM
Well I just got a brand new Lee replacement 6 cavity mold after sending the other one back to Lee. Here are the results of the service department as they stated.

"We have never seen this before. It's likely that some lead had stuck to the inside of the cavities which would have produced pits in your bullets. We also cannot tell what caused your original problem. This mold is ready to use."

So there you go. Funny though I looked at the cavities and hit them with a torch to see if it was lead sticking to the inside of the cavities and nothing came off. Lee replaced the mold for free and also smoked the cavities for me.

Selective memory. They've seen it before- just 1/2 a year ago, when I sent mine back.

Yes, they replaced mine for free, smoked and lubed the mold for me as well, and chided me for not doing so- I had, but I used BullPlate and it's hard to tell that it's lubed when its cold.

-Ken

arjacobson
01-24-2012, 08:32 PM
Did you by chance use acid core solder to add tin to your melt?

Thats exactly what i was thinking...

Floydster
01-24-2012, 09:14 PM
I have been using acid core solder for years to add tin to my melt using Lee molds, never a problem.

Elkins45
02-13-2012, 09:08 PM
I used to store my Lee molds outside in a shed and some kind of insect (mud dauber?) used the cavities to make nests and lay eggs in the cavities. They looked a little bit like that when i scrubbed them out.