Very Accurate 45-90 load

[omgb]

Went to the range today. it was windy as all get out but hey, I had to shoot. I worked up a great 45-90 load for the Sharps. Even in the wind I was able to hit the 400 yard gong 10 for 10 after two sighters. This load required no blow tubing or wiping:-D

LBT 530 grain flatbase bore rider sized .459 and lubed with Dan T.'s White Lightening
78 grains of GOEX 2F
6.6 grains of RL7
RP stretched 45-70 cases from Buffalo Arms
Winchester Large Rifle Primers
Case necks anneled with a candle
Cases FL sized
Bullets seated out to second lube groove
Powder compressed .2"
.030 fiber wad

Recoil was heavy but not impossible. I have no idea what these loads clocked today but similar loads have chony'd at 1375fps in the past.

After 10 rounds I rand a bore pig through it wetted with ballistol and water. I mopped the chamber dry and fired 10 more. All total I put 75 rounds down range. At cleaning, I found very light leading in the bore that came out with a couple of passes with a patch.

[kodiak1]

omgb sounds like you found something that canon of yours likes to feed on. Sure make a fella feel good when all goes well.
Ken

[Kenny Wasserburger]

RJ,

Sounds like you found a very good load for your rifle with Duplex. I know That Butch Ulsher used about the same amount of Reloader 7 in his Match winning and Record setting 45-90 loads back when They were allowed at Raton.

Kenny Wasserburger

[omgb]

BP is fun stuff for sure. I have to confess though, I really prefer to shoot duplex loads. Not having to worry about fouling is a huge plus. It's just so much less time spent dealing with blow tubing etc and a whole lot more time listening to the sound of lead smacking metal. I wish it were allowed in comp but since it's not, I'm not gonna cry about it:( Any way, when the wind stops, I'll test these on paper and report back

[Dale53]

When I first started shooting BPCR Silhouette, duplex was the norm. I had MUCH fun and excellent results with up to 10%, by weight, of RL-7. Then we got NRA knockdowns at Friendship, IN. I HAD to learn to shoot straight black powder. After a period of adjustment, and a year of fighting crappy powder from Goex (they admitted several years later that it was absolute crap but never offered any of us our money back) I learned to make black powder work (with Swiss). BUT-T-T-T-T. I NEVER learned to enjoy using a blow tube. It worked and worked well but I found it very distracting and truly a pain in the tuckus. Wiping also works well but, if anything, is even worse than blow tubing although the results are better overall.

I no longer compete because of vision problems but when I shoot for fun and grins, you can absolutely bet that I'll be using duplex and I'll have a grin on my face.:drinks:

Dale53

[omgb]

One of the most satifying things about shooting that old cannon is seeing the look on guys faces when it outshoots their new-fangled uber-sniper black rifles at the longer ranges. There were two guys out there who had some pretty trick sniper rifles in 308 and in 338 Lapua. There were down on the far left of me and they were trying real hard to hit the 400 yard gong. The wind was playing hob with their shots and they weren't getting but maybe one hit for every four rounds fired ...this is with their big target scopes, sand bag rests etc. Poor little old me handicapped as it were with Soule sights and a 19th century rifle needed just two sighters to get the range and then every shot, ten in a row, slapped that gone so hard you could easily hear it over the range noise. The delay factor kinda rubbed it in too. I would shoot, lift my head and see the bullet smack the gong. These guys would shoot and before they recovered from recoil, the shot was already in the dirt making corrections hard to do without a spotter. They seemed amazed that something so primative could shoot so well. Truth be told, I'm primative myself (almost 51) and have been shooting since I was 4 so my guess is that had I been handed one of those sniper rifles, I'd have shot the s%*t out of that gone. The rifle is a big factor but so is the skill of the man behind it. Daniel Boone I'm not but I'm no rank hack either. Give these guys a few years and lots of good coaching and no doubt 400 yards won't seem so tough any more.:drinks:

[NickSS]

omgb - I know what you mean by skill. I see it all the time. It usually is some young guy who comes out to the range with his latest super wiz bang rifle and shoots a 3 or 4 inch group from a bench rest who brags up a storm as to how well his rifle shoots until he looks at my target. Then they usually leave. Most of my bench rest 10 shot groups blow the X ring out of a 100 yard target but then I have been shooting for over 40 years so experience counts more than a bit.

[northerndog]

could any one give me the mechanics of a duplex load? I shoot a 45-90 I built up on a ruger no.1 action shoots really good 5744 light loads and it shoots a really heavy 350 grn barnes bullit really well. I have never shoot at gongs but I know the heavy loads will knock a grizzly on his keester.

[omgb]

could any one give me the mechanics of a duplex load? I shoot a 45-90 I built up on a ruger no.1 action shoots really good 5744 light loads and it shoots a really heavy 350 grn barnes bullit really well. I have never shoot at gongs but I know the heavy loads will knock a grizzly on his keester.

Pretty simple really. The smokeless should be 10% max of the BP. So, you take 90 grains of BP, reduce it by 10% to 81 grains. Now dial in up to 9grains by weight of a recommended duplex ing powder such as RL7. The smokeless will make the BP burn cleaner, leaving almost no fouling.

[montana_charlie]

could any one give me the mechanics of a duplex load? I shoot a 45-90 ... on a ruger no.1 action ... it shoots a really heavy 350 grn barnes bullit really well.
I wouldn't describe a 350 grain 45/90 bullet as 'really heavy'.
What is the rate of twist in the rifling of your barrel?

CM

[omgb]

Nor would I. Really heavy in my book is north of 500 grains. There are lots of powders out there suitable for duplexing but RL7 has worked for me so I use it. The smokeless lights off the BP more completely and helps to burn it more thoroughly leaving a great deal less fouling in the bore from shot to shot. To really do it right, you have to begin with a good BP load for your gun. Forget jacketed bullets though, this is a cast bullet with BP lube only proposition. When you find out how much BP you can load in the case with your bullet and wad, it's time to weigh it and find out what you have got. That becomes the base charge from which you subtract your 10%. So let say you can squeeze 81 grains by weight of GOEX 2F in that case.( I doubt it but lets use it as a starting point) Subtract 10% and you get 73 grains rounded up. to this, you add 8.1 grains of RL7. A typical load would go like this: Starline 45-90 brass FL sized and expanded at the mouth to .457. Prime with Fed LR primer. Load 8.1 grains of RL7 into the case. Using a drop tube, slowly add 73 grains of 2F BP. Top with a .030 fiber wad and compress about .125" using a compression die. Seat a 520 grain bullet sized .459 over the charge, inserting the bullet until it touches the powder. You'll have to fiddle with this and the compression based on your rifle's throat. If the bullet is butted up against the rifling there's no need to crimp. That should do it.

[45bpcr]

I surprised a couple of guys shooting a TRG-42 at Ridgway last year. They were hammering away at the buffalo ( homer for those who know him ) out at 980 yds with less than stellar luck. The wife and I were sitting back at the trailer, just watching until curiosity got the best of me. So I ambled down with my 45-90 in the case and asked them what they were shooting at. They told me they were shooting long and trying with out much luck to hit the buff.

So, being the wise @ss I can be at times, I told them they were using the wrong kinda rifle. I could see the confusion in their eyes as they were shooting a 338. My mat and sticks were still set up so we ambled over and I dug out my rifle and ammo. At that point I could see the confusion get real serious. I still had sight settings for that range from earlier in the day and as my wife was knitting, made one of them spot for me.
My 1st shot with a cold, clean barrel usually goes a bit high, so I shaded him low an connected on his hump. Confusion turned to surprise upon hearing the clang. I connected 4 more times in 5 shots, wiping between shots.
As the day was fading I asked them if they wanted to have a go at it. They both did and the 1st one hit him a few times. the second guy couldn't see him well enough to confidently make a shot a didn't try.
So I got one hooked :-)
We wandered back up to the trailer to imbibe in a few cold Yuengling's and talk rifles. They were amazed at the accuracy using straight black and cast bullets. My load at that time was a BACO 535 grain Postell, 82.5 grains Swiss 3f, .060 poly wad and a BR-2 primer.

That's my story and I'm sticken to it.

45bpcr

[oldred]

How would a slower powder such as Varget or H4895 work as a kicker in a duplex 45-90 load? I have been thinking about trying it but have been a bit afraid of the unknown, I shoot straight Varget sometimes with a Lee 459-500-3R but in recent months I have been using Black more than the "other stuff", still the duplex loading as a fouling control is quite interesting.

[johnson1942]

thanks for your post, again it varifies a duplex load and ive use one almost identical to yours. clean, accurate and safe. we were just talking about a duplex load up on the 50/90 post. they did that years ago and some still do.

[bigted]

old red,

i have used IMR 3031, RL-7, IMR 4227, and 5744 for the smokeless priming powder under the BP. my favorite as of now seems to be the IMR 4227 as it seems like the most accurate. the IMR 3031 came in a close second but i like the IMR 4227 best. it meters well and the cleanliness is super. allowing up to 30 shots without any fouling control and accuracy staying the same from the first to the last.

i never use anything more then the 10% of smokeless tho and i never duplex in one of my originals just becouse i dont know nor can tell what the metallurgy of these fine old rifles consists of nor the abuse that may be hidden. so i restrict my duplexing to modern built firearms and smile with every shot.

i also love the straight BP loads ...but... when i want to just blow off some steam and dont really want the "whole experience" ... i run the duplex loads.

[johnson1942]

i like to read every ones experience in out shooting the modern guys. its a thrill that lasts a life time. mine is with a .50 cal round ball muzzle loader i built my self and later gave to one of my sons. i was at a range with it by bismark n,dak in the fall. a a local man that was well heeled with money came out and was sighting in his .300 mag. weathery with a 9 power scope. we both were shooting at one hundred yards off of a bench rest. i was keeping a very tight 1 inch group and he had a group that was 4 or 5 inches. it must have been him. he kept looking at my group and his jaws got tighter and tighter. he couldnt believe that i could do my groups with my gun. he said i will get my deer with my gun, and he will. he will most likely shoot one at 100 yards on a paid hunt set up for him in a cornfield. that gun would even do good at 200 yards as i, my son and his brother inlaw used it on coyotes at that range and it did real well.

[smokeywolf]

Most of what I've heard and read says that IMR 4759 is 1st choice for duplexing under black. Have to do some more research on using RL7.

smokeywolf

[oldred]

I finally decided to try duplexing after running into problems chambering after about the third shot on humid days, don't know for sure if the humid conditions caused the problems but it sure seems that way. I don't have any of the above mentioned powders that are being used but I looked at a burn rate chart and found that H4198 is very close to those so with that on hand I decided to try it, 45-90, Lee 459-500-3R with SPG lube, 8 grs H4198 , Goex 2F compressed about 1/8" with a .040 disc cut from fiber gasket material. WOW, what a difference! It still looks, shoots and smells like BP but even after 10 shots there was no more chambering problems and the bore seemed cleaner than it did after just the first shot with straight BP. This was just off-hand shooting at various targets on my make-shift range so today I plan to load up another 40 rds or so and try for some decent groups to see how the accuracy is affected, straight BP groups really well so we will see!

[bigted]

other then the fouling control ... i have found nothing detrimental with the duplex loads except for this ... i can and have fired 20 shots without any cleaning nor blow tube and the accuracy never wobbled. it is the same kick and smoke and the same in the smell dept. but without any of the fouling to gum up the works. this IS something else to watch out for tho ... that barrel WILL get so hot in winter that you will get a deep sunburn by just barely a lite touch and then the cool down that takes so many life times ... AND ... ya got to allow the rifle to cool down also! [smilie=1:

please do report your findings with the duplexing.