first time lyman 4500 user, ok, is it supposed to be this messy???

[1911fan]

I just tried my first rounds through my new Lyman 4500 sizer. I am using the Moly lube stick that came with it and turned the heater on for a little bit (maybe 20 minutes). I am using a Lee molded bullet, a 230 grn. Truncated cone with one grease groove and a beveled base. when I run a bullet through the sizer I get good coverage in the groove, but I get a ****-load of lube under the bullet and on the base of it and I am really getting tired of having to wipe everything down after every bullet! I have watched plenty of videos on You tube of people setting up and using this machine and I don't remember them having this issue. Is this lube they gave me to soft? Is it the beveled base of the bullet? If this is the norm, I will get rid of this and go back to my tumble lube bullets.

[canyon-ghost]

I can help, have two of them. Super Moly lube doesn't require heat. Only the hardest pistol lubes really need it. Carnuba Red does, as does the wax lubes.

The idea is to adjust the press to place the lube only on the grooves. If you get a ton of lube on the base, the boolit isn't going deep enough in the sizing die. If you get a bunch of lube on the nose, it's going too deep. The threads on the wheel and stud under the sizing die are your adjustment point.

You should be able to size the bullet, turn the handle about 1/16th turn and lube the groove, then pop it out. I always put an old tee shirt or sweatshirt rag on my knee when doing this. It beats the heck out of lubing with your fingers but, has it's own nuances you'd need to learn.

Good Luck,
Ron

[canyon-ghost]

Come to think of it, I did use some heat on the Super Moly. I was unplugging it when it got too hot. It seems when you can smell it, it's getting too hot and will get greasy.

I also used some Frankfort Arsenal mica to keep the bullets from sticking together in the coffee can. It only takes a couple of teaspoons of mica, comes in a 1 pound tub so, it lasts a while.

[Lefty SRH]

I ran into the same problem with a home brew lube. I would give the luber screw wrench a 1/4 to 1/2 turn and then I'd get a bunch of lube under the boolit. Too much pressure?

[canyon-ghost]

Too much pressure?

That, and you need to adjust the press.

[1911fan]

I saw a video on You tube where a guy has problems with beveled base bullets and takes a piece of thin cardboard, like what a small sandwich bag box would made of and he put that in between the bullet and the die and then ran the ram down and it made a round gasket that kept the lube off of the base, I tried it and it would not tear or punch right and did not work. I don't know if the base being beveled even has anything to do with it. I will try again tomorrow without heat. I am also gonna be trying some home made lubes that are a little harder than this moly stuff. Gonna try a beeswax recipe. I started with the bottom adjustment at the highest point and progressed down until it started getting to the groove, so I know it is not going to deep.

[canyon-ghost]

The idea is too run the bullet in deep enough to put the lube grooves directly in front of the holes in the sizing die. You should be able to size the bullet to the bottom, turn the wrench just enough to pressure lube into the grooves and then, pop it right back out.

Experiment a little with depth on the adjustment of the lower rod that controls the punch inside that sizing die- you can see a difference in performance.

[462]

Man, that is some nasty, nasty stuff. I couldn't get rid of it too soon enough.

When your 4500 is filled with a less messy lube, bevel base boolits are a snap to contend with.

Lube the way you prefer, but what you experienced is not the fault of the 4500.

[canyon-ghost]

1911, if it is too deep, you'll get lube on the nose- it's opposite what you'd think.

[canyon-ghost]

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx228/3rdshooter/contenders/mica002.jpg

Here's some stuff that will keep bullets seperated, mica. It's a lube in it's own right too, it shatters when crushed, a lot like white graphite but, I think it's made from ising glass or gypsum.

[drklynoon]

I use supermoly and I have a beveled base .452 200 gr swc bullet that goes through my 4500. My equipment is indoors and at room temerature so I do not use a heater at all. Like the others said the adjustment helps. I do not turn the adjuster with a bullet in the sizer. I run the adjuster till it feels snug then size about three then hit the adjuster till it firms up again. I do get lube in the beveled area of my bullets but I do not get any on the base itself. The other method may not put lube in the bevel. I will give it a try next time. I really like the super moly and have not had any of the mess problems with it that others have had. It does stink though. Good luck.

[Steel185]

sorry to dig up an old thread but i wanted to add something and i had a relavant question to this topic. I'm in the same situation as the OP, with the same bullet (i think) I have a lyman #45 luber and almost threw away the mold because i couldn't get it to not put lube under the bullet. I tried the cardboard "gasket" trick and it worked great. I traced a bullet on some thin cardboard to get the diameter, cut it out, put it in and it worked great. The cardboard i used was more like backing to a product, very thin stuff. I thought i would have to try several times and progress in thickness but the thin stuff worked.

On the part about the Mica, I've heard of this before but how do you apply it? Do you mix it in your lube? Can you do this? Do you toss in a tablespoon in the can of bullets and shake? sorry i know it probibly a simple matter I'm making complicated, but there isn't anyone in my area i know that casts, so i have to learn it all myself. thats why i love this message board.

Thanks again everyone

[NHGrumpyGramps]

The mica coats the boolits and makes them a little less stickey when using some of the soft lubes. It does not take a lot of mica to coat the boolits. A teaspoon of mica will do hundreds of boolits. I use a tupperware round bottom bowl and put in just a little mica and then swirl the bowl with lid on to coat the boolits. This is to get them to roll around and pickup the mica. A little goes a long way- try a few until you get the right amount to get a good coating on the boolits.

[pt4u2nv]

I cut little circles out of the thin sterofoam trays that meat comes on with a 45 case and they fit under the boolit to prevent the lube from getting on the bevel base . Works great. They sort of form to the bottom of the boolit and seals it from the lube.

[RoGrrr]

What I learned was that not all the grooves in the boolit are lube grooves. I was filling them all until someone suggested I might be filling the CRIMP groove !
I adjusted the depth and only filled the bottom groove. Immediately my operation became cleaner.
I still get some lube under the base but I'm not all that worried about that.

[Cadillo]

I used to use that lube. It does not need heat unless it is winter and you are in a northern environment. Since I got a Star sizer, I rarely use my Lyman 4500, but when I did, the only way to keep lube off the base of a bevel base bullet was to use cardboard seals between the sizing die piston and bullet base.

Lose the heater and you will probably get by with wiping just a litlle lube off each bullet base. Use a properly cut cardboard seal and your bullets and press will be clean. Also, back off the pressure any time you walk away from the press even for a few moments.

[gray wolf]

B B bullet is going to = lube ring around the base of the bullet.
The base of the bullet is lower than the grease groove, It has to go past the holes in the die. Get rid of the BB or do the best you can with what you have.
You may make it a little better, but you ain't going to make it right.

[trixter]

I found that it almost impossible to not get some lube on the bevel base boolits. I have not tried the 'gasket' yet but I might. I use Carnuba Red and found that the heated base was too hot, I am in the process of lowering the temp to around 80 to 85 degrees and trying that. I am also resurrecting a 'Rube Goldberg'd' Star and will see how it works when I am done.

[Cadillo]

I found that it almost impossible to not get some lube on the bevel base boolits. I have not tried the 'gasket' yet but I might. I use Carnuba Red and found that the heated base was too hot, I am in the process of lowering the temp to around 80 to 85 degrees and trying that. I am also resurrecting a 'Rube Goldberg'd' Star and will see how it works when I am done.

What has worked well for me is to take an unsized, but decapped case and sharpen the mouth using a campher tool. I then cut the gaskets from thin cardboard from the boxes that Zip-Loc bags come in. I've tried other materials including the styrofoam that others have used, but had bad luck with them.

I place the cardboard shiney side up on a piece of wood, 2x4 or other, and then place the case mouth on the cardboard and give it a whack with a mallet. While I'm at it I cut quite a few in each caliber I intend to size with the Lyman.

Place a cardboard gasket, shiney side up on the die plunger, and then size your bullets as usual. If I have bullets sticking to and pulling out the gaskets, I lightly lube a Q-Tip with Baby Oil, and lightly paint the top of the gasket, then wipe away as much of the oil as possible, which prevents the gasket from sticking to the bullets. I get about sixty bullets sized per gasket before they go south.

When I use this method, I never have to wipe bullet bases. It works so well that I even use it with my flat base bullets.

Regarding the heater, it does get too hot as you have found out. I got on the internet and found a router speed control, which acts as a Rheostat and allows me to dial in as much or little heat as I need. I run about 60% with the Carnuba Red, which is now the only lube I use.

[n.h.schmidt]

If you have access to a lathe this can be fixed easily. What you do is to remove the die ejector rod. Once out it is set up in the lathe and drilled out all the way through. A 3/16" dia drill will do ,its not critical. The top of the ejector rod can also be countersunk so as to leave only a small lip around the top. The modified rod is now done and can be installed back into the die. Use as before but now the BB bullet will not have the lube problem. This was taken from a NRA book on cast Boolits by Harrison
n.h.schmidt