First try casting = ugly bullets

[dbarnhart]

Mind you I did not expect museum-quality boolits from my first casting session. I'm doing exactly what I figured I would be doing: Asking the experienced folks here for help.

- Pot is a used Lee Production Pot 4 (bought used for $5 hee hee!)

- Lead is reclaimed range lead in 2.5 lb ingots

- I have a thermometer and the molten lead is almost exactly 750 degrees

- Mold is a Lee 2-cavity mold, 45 ACP 230gr, Lee # 90346

The first few I cast were really frosty-looking which I interpreted as the mold being too hot. After a bit though all my boolits started to look like these.

What do I need to do differently?

http://www.shootandreload.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/boolits_try1.jpg

[waco]

A little frosting is no big deal. Make sure you completely degrease the mold before you cast.
I would scrub it out good with a toothbrush and brake cleaner, or mineral spirits, then boil in water for about 10 min.
Make sure to keep that mold hot. Cold & greasy molds equal wrinkles.
Waco

[geargnasher]

Waco about covered it.

The thing about frost and aluminum moulds is that when your mould first gets hot enough for frosty boolits (assuming you started with a cooler mould and not with the mould preheated to above casting temperature) the frost usually occurs right on the edges of the base and driving bands, making ugly, crystalline rounded edges on an otherwise shiny boolit. Many casters take this as a sign the mould is too hot and slow the pace down or cool the mould with a fan to get back to the shiny boolit stage. But if you keep letting the mould get hotter by casting fast and steady, or preheat it well to begin with, the heavy frost on the edges will go away and the whole boolit will take on a light, even, satin frost and the edges will be sharp again. If you go too far, the boolits will look dull and sandblasted, like freshly broken cast iron, and probably be undersized as well.

I prefer to cast fast enough to keep the mould at the temperature that throws slightly frosty, satin boolits. I get better fillout and find that the temp range for consistency is a bit broader and more forgiving than trying to keep the mould on the cool side of frosty. There is a very fine line between rounded, poorly filled edges and perfect, non-frosty, shiny boolits.

One thing I'd do for sure is add a little tiny bit of tin, like 1% by weight or so, to that range scrap. It's fresh on my mind because of another thread where a fellow was having some issues due to not having enough tin in the alloy. If you do this, keep your alloy temperature below 750, in fact 700 is probably better, that way your tin can do it's job. Due to rate of tin's oxidation, its antioxidant properties (whicy have the effect of making the alloy cast better) ar mitigated by excessive heat. Use your casting pace to regulate mould temperature for good boolits. Changing the pot temperature, overheating it, or otherwise dinking with it won't make your boolits any better, focus on mould temperature.

......But don't forget to degrease the mould like Waco said!

Gear

[dbarnhart]

What if I preheat the mold by letting a corner of it rest in the molten lead?

[glicerin]

I preheat the mold on top of furnace while it's warming up, then dunk mold corner and sprue plate 30 sec. for 2 cav., 60 sec. for 6 cav. I don't worry about some frosting, and always add 1% tin to ww and scrap bullet alloy when available.

[hedgehorn]

They will look better next time ;)

[idahoron]

Don't get the mould too hot. It is possible to get it hot enough that when the puddle on top sets up, but the lead in the mould can still be liquid. When that happens you will open the mould and the liquid lead will dump out. It will get into the alignment pins and everything else making a HUGE mess. Don't ask how I know. Ron

[Bret4207]

I think there should just be a big bold header on the top of the page that says "CLEAN YOUR MOULD! IT"S NOT HOT ENOUGH EITHER!" I think it would help a lot of people. I know it sure would have helped me 30 years ago! I got to where I thought boolits (they were still "bullets" back then!) just had to look like prunes.

[dbarnhart]

Well I have some tin on the way. Rotometals has these tin pellets that are each about 2oz:

http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/tinhighgradepcs.htm

[geargnasher]

Don't get the mould too hot. It is possible to get it hot enough that when the puddle on top sets up, but the lead in the mould can still be liquid. When that happens you will open the mould and the liquid lead will dump out. It will get into the alignment pins and everything else making a HUGE mess. Don't ask how I know. Ron

Simple fix for that: Don't worry about overheating it too much during preheating, and if your first pour takes more than eight seconds for the sprue to set, cut the sprue and look at the bases carefully BEFORE opening the mould blocks. If the bases are still mirror shiny and smeared a little lead when you opened the plate, WAIT to open the blocks. But you know that now!:bigsmyl2:

Gear

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I just buy lead free solder at the hardware store and cut into 2" pieces. add one piece with each lead muffin ingot.
CF

[MtGun44]

Yep - wht they said - more heat, clean the mold. Add tin to the mix. Cast faster, do not
spend time admiring your work. FILL, CUT, DUMP, FILL, CUT, DUMP - NO BREAKS.

Bill

[Hang Fire]

I have found Lee molds given a good wash with carp cleaner spray, wiping out with a lint free cotton rag and preheating the mold on hot electric hotplate has the boolits dropping out easy and looking good on first cast.

Others mileage may vary.

[stubshaft]

What Brett said!

[Recluse]

One thing I'd do for sure is add a little tiny bit of tin, like 1% by weight or so, to that range scrap.
Gear


Yep - wht they said - more heat, clean the mold. Add tin to the mix. Cast faster, do not
spend time admiring your work. FILL, CUT, DUMP, FILL, CUT, DUMP - NO BREAKS.

Bill

In case you missed what Gear and Bill said. . .

Dirty, cold mold. Solution--clean mold thoroughly, heat mold thoroughly. Keep mold thoroughly hot. The only time I ever "dip" an aluminum mold is when I get tired of trying to scrub any residual grease or oil out of it; I just dunk it for ten/fifteen seconds and THAT pretty much evaporates it out.

But then I have to let the mold cool.

Another thing I'll add about adding tin. Those micro-band boolits? My experience has been to add extra tin to even normal Lyman #2 alloy and you'll get much better, more consistent fillout around those bands which is what you definitely want in a TL boolit--because that's where your lube will be.

I first tried this with my beloved old Lee TL358SWC boolit. I was getting pretty danged nice boolits with normal alloy, but when I added more tin than I normally ever would for any other boolits, the boolits came out looking like works of art.

Fillout was perfect. All bands and edges nice and crisp. LOTS of nice, even, perfect surfaces to hold my tumble-lube concoction. Well worth the extra tin.

So remember: Clean, Hot, Additional Tin.

:coffee:

[runfiverun]

those don't look like cold or dirty mold issues to me.
that looks like kirksite or calcium in the alloy.

[GT27]

( Cold mold syndrome) It will get better with time,you get a (feel) for it when your casting,everything clicks mind,pot,and mold! And with experience will come more success, and the occasional failures...:bigsmyl2:: Confusious say: Man with 500 degree pot,hot mold,and cold water for dip,have warm heart,big smile,and shiny boolitz!:lol:

[kweidner]

you may also be filling the mold to slowly. it only takes around a second to fill a large cavity like .434 of .454. That pot takes a little getting used to. either your pouring to slow or you lift handle too much and make a mess. put old cookie sheet under pot, wear leather gloves and go for it. You will eventually get the feel for it. Happy boolits are cast fast from pot to mould. tiny streams cause wrinkles.

[geargnasher]

those don't look like cold or dirty mold issues to me.
that looks like kirksite or calcium in the alloy.

I took a better look and I think you may be right. Notice the tiny pits in the surface indicative of contamination.

Dbarnhart, you didn't melt all that nasty range scrap right in your casting pot, did you?

Gear

[dbarnhart]

>>>you didn't melt all that nasty range scrap right in your casting pot, did you?<<<

no. bought it ingotized from another caster.

If it is contamination what can I do about it?

[geargnasher]

stir it good with a dry wooden stick, maybe add some sawdust or wood chips to it and stir that in. Let it smolder to ash and skim the crud. Scrape the bottom of the pot well with a long-handled tea spoon, try to work the grit and dross from the bottom to the sides and up to the top.

Gear

[dbarnhart]

I can't thank you guys enough for your help and advice. Without this forum I'd be lost and I would have given up. With your help I feel like I'm making progress.

The results of my second casting session look much better. Here's what I did:

1. Reduced the temp to 700 degrees

2. Added 1.5 oz of TIN to the mix

3. Fluxed using sawdust and a wooden paint paddle.

4. Kept the mold hotter

Not perfect but much better:;
http://www.shootandreload.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/DSCN0116.jpg

My casting session ended abruptly however when the pouring spout on this old Lee pot plugged up tight. (so now I'm off to read the posts about how to fix it).

[Blammer]

you added ZINC? are you sure ZINC?

Tin perhaps, but ZINC?

[Down South]

you added ZINC? are you sure ZINC?

Tin perhaps, but ZINC?

I bet/hope he used tin.

[dbarnhart]

TIN TIN YES TIN! (trying to type WAAAAAY too early in the morning!)

Yes, added 1.5oz of TIN to the mix

[geargnasher]

As for your plugged spout, either a large gob of crud migrated to it along the bottom and stopped it up, or it froze. Holding a flame from a BBQ lighter on the spout for a few seconds will get it going again during a session if it only froze, but it sounds like crud plugged it to me.

You can try reaming out the spout with a piece of bent wire, but have an old frying pan or similar catch pan handy in case you dislodge the pintle from the seat, in other words be prepared to catch the entire contents of the pot if it gets dislodged!!

700 degrees is probably about 150 degrees over full-liquidus of the alloy since you added the tin (it lowers the melt point some), so believe me it's not too cold, although the spouts can still freeze if the ambient temperature is low or you cast outside in the wind.

It might be time to empty the pot and clean it.

Gear

[dbarnhart]

>>>It might be time to empty the pot and clean it.<<<

I got it unplugged and my next step is to do just that. The pot was about 3/4 full. Fortunately I have an old RCBS ingot mold (I think I paid $2 for it at the same time I bought the pot for $5) and I emptied the pot into it.

[geargnasher]

Now that you have the pot emptied, try this: Turn it back on for a few minutes and let the liner get hot enough to melt lead. Don't laugh, but taking a wooden stick like a paint stir stick and scraping the entire inside of the pot with it is just about the best thing in the world for removing dross scum. Unless there is rust, the stick will do the trick. Let it char as you work it across the hot metal, you'll see little shiny drops of reduced alloy form out of the dross as you do this. Clean out the spout with what ever will fit in there while the pot is still hot, then let it cool. Wipe the inside out with a rag dampened with WD-40 or any kind of light oil, this will control the toxic lead dust. Throw the rag away when done. You might need to use a little abrasive compound to lap the valve pintle in the seat while you're at it, otherwise put it back together and be conscious not to let dirty ingots or the tip of your stick touch the bottom while stirring the melt, once trash gets caught under the surface tension and weight of the lead on the bottom of the pot it's tough to get it to float up and out where you can skim it.

Gear

[HangFireW8]

dbarnhart,

I have that mold, actually the third of its type, the first had warping issues (cast bullets with fins), the second was misaligned by .005" because of an improperly staked alignment pin. I cast over 380 really good looking but offset boolits with mold #2 before figuring that out- a whole casting session wasted. Lee replaced both without complaint and now I have a good one.

Anyway, that mold is a bit challenging as far as molds go, particularly for beginners. It requires Tin and somewhat hot and consistent melt heat to get the tiny little Tumble Lube grooves to fill out properly. Being .45" wide doesn't help either as it is hard to fill the cavity fast enough with a decent temp melt and not get wrinkles. By decent, I mean not so hot you're burning off all the good elements in the alloy melt.

On top of all that, if you have the 6-gang mold, they are a bit more challenging to run. But, it can be done. If you can adjust the flow rate, get it up high enough that it goes into the sprue hole quickly, but doesn't flood the hole and require all the air to vent through the mold. Follow the other good advice here, keep trying, and take notes immediately after (or during) each session about what works and what doesn't. Every mold has a preferred mold temp, melt temp, alloy type, fill rate, fill angle, etc., but some are very particular about all of these things and others have a very broad range for each of these. This is one of those "particular" molds, but it can be mastered.

[dbarnhart]

Thank you, HangFireW8. I agree. The mold is a little two 'fiddly' for my tastes. When I close it the two halves seldom align properly without some coaxing. I'll live with it a while longer but I have my eye on an Accurate 45-230B or 45-230M in brass.

[fishnbob]

Thank you, HangFireW8. I agree. The mold is a little two 'fiddly' for my tastes. When I close it the two halves seldom align properly without some coaxing. I'll live with it a while longer but I have my eye on an Accurate 45-230B or 45-230M in brass.

Set a short piece of 2x4 where you are casting, right beside the pot and when you get ready to close the mold, set the bottom of the mold flat on the 2x4 and then close it. The flat planed area of the board will guide your mold halves back together.

[geargnasher]

Watch that setting the blocks on a flat surface to close them, none of my Lee two-bangers have even bottoms and doing so will cause more misalignment issues than it fixes. I've filed a few of them flat and even so I can rest them on the bottom to close the blocks, but in the end the alignment fix was to use a slight film of Bullplate on the alignment points so they slide together perfectly. It makes a world of difference in how the moulds close up.

Gear

[HangFireW8]

Watch that setting the blocks on a flat surface to close them, none of my Lee two-bangers have even bottoms and doing so will cause more misalignment issues than it fixes. I've filed a few of them flat and even so I can rest them on the bottom to close the blocks, but in the end the alignment fix was to use a slight film of Bullplate on the alignment points so they slide together perfectly. It makes a world of difference in how the moulds close up.

Gear

Gear,

You and I must be buying Lee molds from the same place. :)

Bullplate is good, but it won't cure massive misaligment.

On one mold, a couple of minutes of the bottom of the mold on the belt sander took care of the problem for me. On another I had to bend the built-on pliers several times before alignment was even a word I could use in relation to that mold.

I have to laugh when I think all the work I've done getting Lee molds working. I don't blame anyone for swearing them off, but after all, they're cheap, and I've gotten really good at fixing them!

-HF