Loverins: I have 2 problems

[jonk]

First: Am I correct in assuming that a Loverlin style mold has a LOT of grease grooves and narrow bands in between? The Lyman .323470 as an example.

I have 2 group buy molds bothin 8mm (1 200 gr, 1 140 gr) of this type. They are both NOEs. When I got them, I cleaned and degreased the mold, heated on my hot plate, ran the Lee furnace at 10 as I do with most multi cavity molds, and used a cleaned, fluxed wheelwheight/tin mix that works just dandy in my other molds.

But in BOTH Loverlin designs, those tiny fin like projections that form the sides of the bullet around all those little grease grooves stubbornly fail to fill out. Even when the bullet is frosty I'd say 8 out of 10 don't fill out.

Second comes lubing. I'm using Lars' BAC lube and it flows just fine into my regular bullet designs, but with the Loverlins it either doesn't fill the grooves, or seems to ride right over the sides of the bullet if I apply too much pressure.

The latter issue I can play around with and solve, perhaps with some gentle heat on the sizer; but what do you think about the mold fill out problem?

[williamwaco]

Sounds like it is not a heat problem,

First guess is - add 1% tin to the mix.


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[jonk]

I am adding monotype to be specific, 1/2 pound to 9 pounds of wheelweights. Again, this normally gives good fill out in my other molds; I can certainly add MORE tin from some 95/5 solder if need be.

[462]

Jonk, I have a six-cavity Fattest 30 group buy that, like yours, makes for a very frustrating casting session. It has defied Leementing and other casting tricks, thus I've come to live with it. Lubing the boolits has never been problematic. Sorry I can't be any help, but it may be comforting to know that you're not alone. Hopefully, someone will come along with a definite fix.

I have two other Loverin designs -- an Ideal and a Lyman -- that are casting jewels.

[mroliver77]

Some moulds like to be filled with the mould close to the spout of the bottom pour pot. Others prefer to be farther away. Some seem to need pressure filling with the sprue plate touching the spout or using a Lyman type ladle with the spout inserted into the sprue hole. Some moulds want the mould tipped a bit and/or letting the flow hit the edge of the sprue hole causing turbulence or swirling in the alloy flow.

Sometimes the venting needs some help.

WW has plenty of antimony for my needs so I would add the Tin only and try that. You catch heck for wasting tin but an alloy with the tin percentage the same as antimony percentage like Lyman #2 alloy is very tough and casts well.

Read up on gearnashers posts about alloy and mould temps!

[williamwaco]

I am adding monotype to be specific, 1/2 pound to 9 pounds of wheelweights. Again, this normally gives good fill out in my other molds; I can certainly add MORE tin from some 95/5 solder if need be.


Nope. that should be plenty of tin. Adding more than necessary doesn't make it better.

You might try some straight monotype though. If it fills out, you will know that the alloy is the problem.


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[Echo]

Nope. that should be plenty of tin. Adding more than necessary doesn't make it better.

You might try some straight monotype though. If it fills out, you will know that the alloy is the problem.

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Hmmm - 1/2 lb mono just puts in about 3/4 oz of Sn. Mono is 9% Sn, and 8 oz mono = .72 oz Sn, which amounts to only 1/2% additional Sn, and I don't think that's enough. I mix mono 1/7 w/WW's, and am happy.

[Bret4207]

Listen to mr oliver 77. Loverins can be tricky, but once you fiddle around and find what they want they should fill out fine.

[FirstBrit]

First: Am I correct in assuming that a Loverlin style mold has a LOT of grease grooves and narrow bands in between? The Lyman .323470 as an example.

I have 2 group buy molds bothin 8mm (1 200 gr, 1 140 gr) of this type. They are both NOEs. When I got them, I cleaned and degreased the mold, heated on my hot plate, ran the Lee furnace at 10 as I do with most multi cavity molds, and used a cleaned, fluxed wheelwheight/tin mix that works just dandy in my other molds.

But in BOTH Loverlin designs, those tiny fin like projections that form the sides of the bullet around all those little grease grooves stubbornly fail to fill out. Even when the bullet is frosty I'd say 8 out of 10 don't fill out.

Second comes lubing. I'm using Lars' BAC lube and it flows just fine into my regular bullet designs, but with the Loverlins it either doesn't fill the grooves, or seems to ride right over the sides of the bullet if I apply too much pressure.

The latter issue I can play around with and solve, perhaps with some gentle heat on the sizer; but what do you think about the mold fill out problem?

Hi, Some of the moulds for Loverin style bullets with those narrow driving bands and lube grooves have a significant radius on them. Probably to aid bullet release from the cavities after casting. Take a look at the mould cavity using a strong magnifying glass to see whether the bands are round or square cut. Also on the older styles it was quite common that the front driving bands were purposely cut to smaller diameters than the bands at the base end of the bullet. Makes the bullet a little more versatile for various chamber dimensions and eases the self centering of the bullet when round is chambered. Bye the way, some earlier tests in Col. Harrison's "Cast Bullets" showed that it wasn't necessary to lube all of those grooves for good accuracy results!

Best regards,

Adrian - Germany.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

+1 to Bret, Oliver and First Brit's advice. It sometimes takes some searching to get the Loverin style molds to fill out properly in the bands and grooves. Some tin usually helps. With the modern lubes it is often not necessary to fill all of the lube grooves as this sometimes causes a loss in accuracy and a lot more smoke; also can crud up the gun. Back to the molds; tipping the blocks, venting tricks, changing pouring heights and the size diameter of the stream, size of sprue puddle and even gently dropping the blocks to "softly jolt" the pour can all contribute to success in getting the casts to be of good quality. Clean metal and consistent temps are a must. Guy Loverin once said," watch the quality and not the clock". I believe that he was a ladle caster as bottom pouts were not around at that time. LLS

[wiljen]

I have one that requires smoking heavily to fill properly.

[longbow]

Just a suggestion, I find that ladle pouring has solved many fill out issues for me. In fact I only ladle pour now.

Not sure if it is the speed of pour or the fact that I pour to the tangent of the sprue hole that helps, but help it does.

Another observation with my two NOE moulds (not Loverin style though) is that they like to be run hot so I cast fast and keep mould temperature up. You might try raising lead temperature some and cast fast and steady to keep the mould really hot.

Just a couple of thoughts.

Longbow

[STP22]

I suggest you use a ladel instead of bottom pouring. Smoke the top of the sprue plate to start...if you don`t get good casts after a spell, smoke the cavities and see if that helps.

Regards,

Scott

[rintinglen]

I have a 311-466 NOE 4 cavity and had similar problems at first. After a couple of sessions, though it has become more user friendly. Several observations come to mind.

First, preheat like crazy. I actually place the mold on top the melt when I plug in the pot. The first pour will take a while to freeze, but the boolits are more likely to be good.

Second, run the melt hot. My Lee pot normally gives yeoman service down around 6 0r 7 when casting with steel molds. I have to run it at the top to get good boolits from the NOE mold. Don't throw the cut sprues back in the pot, you need hot metal to get good fill out in all those nooks and crannys.

Third, cast fast. I use my gloved hand to open the sprue plate to help cut down on excess motion and time loss. Time loss is heat loss and those Aluminum molds cool quickly. Don't inspect as you go, just keep filling, cutting and dumping

Finally, do not center the stream on the sprue hole, but aim it so it hits one side or the other and imparts a swirling motion to the liquid lead. I found this technique years ago to be a help with my Lyman molds (I have 5 louverin molds, all three 30 cals, an 8mm and a 257-463) and it is even more essential with the NOE mold.

Good luck--when properly made, it is darned hard to find a more accurate boolit.

[adrians]

hello , i have a few loverin designed molds,(Ideal/Lyman,) one being the NOE 323471 and have found that using plenty of heat on the mold (as mentioned abve) is a beneifit.
i think iirc NOE molds come with pre-heating instructions.
mine go in a small toaster oven to heat up then let cool and do it again, and again.
the Leementing sticky will give you plenty of good solid info.
i ladle pour only anymore( drip,drip ,drove me crazy,,anyway.)
also i don't run loverins through a lube-sizer they get sized (if needed) in a LEE push through die and then tumble lubed with LLA.
don't give up ,they can be tricky but well woth the extra effort, love NOE molds.
hope this helps.
have a great day .
adrians...:evil::coffee::twisted:

[44man]

I would ladle pour and hold the ladle tight until the boolit takes the lead it needs before tipping it off, leaving a good sprue.
I cast every and any boolit that way and have no rejects. Even little boolits benefit from drawing molten lead from the ladle instead of a hardening sprue.
When you turn the mold and ladle up, look inside the ladle once. You will see the level go down, stop for a moment and then go down more. That is when the boolit has what it needs.

[jonk]

I'd hate to ladle pour but certainly will if I have to. I might try that first, along with smoking, then a little more tin.

[44man]

I'd hate to ladle pour but certainly will if I have to. I might try that first, along with smoking, then a little more tin.
You will learn to love a ladle. You can empty a pot of lead with no rejects. Much better then tossing a bunch back in the pot. You will lose no time at all.
I would just love to have everyone come to cast and see how easy it is. Quality sure beats quantity every tick of the clock.
I never have to sort or weigh a single boolit.
Casting perfect boolits is so easy and boring, I want the guys to send pole dancing girls for my bench! [smilie=w:

[jonk]

You will learn to love a ladle. You can empty a pot of lead with no rejects. Much better then tossing a bunch back in the pot. You will lose no time at all.
I would just love to have everyone come to cast and see how easy it is. Quality sure beats quantity every tick of the clock.
I never have to sort or weigh a single boolit.
Casting perfect boolits is so easy and boring, I want the guys to send pole dancing girls for my bench! [smilie=w:

I started with a ladle and only ladled for the first 5 years. Then I got a bottom pour and haven't used the ladle since except for pure lead, which I still ladle cast for my muzzleloader; also with fillout problems on the skirt despite the ladle. I didn't learn to love it, I hate bothering with it.

[Bret4207]

I'd hate to ladle pour but certainly will if I have to. I might try that first, along with smoking, then a little more tin.

If it's not heating up or venting right then the smoke will just add to your problems.

[10x]

Pour as large a spruce as possible, I have found that cures a lot of problems.

[Blammer]

clean the mould, pour a large sprue that's what I'd try first.

[10x]

clean the mould, pour a large sprue that's what I'd try first.

A clean mold and a large sprue have solved many fill out problems...