.22 mold decisions

[Marlin Junky]

I may get an opportunity to purchase a 788 in .223 next week. What mold(s) have you guys found to be the easiest to cast perfect little boolits? I tried an RCBS 22-055-SP years ago and found it a bit difficult to keep hot. I suppose I could turn up the heat and cast a bit faster since discovering lubes that actually may work at 500F.

Thanks,
MJ

[1Shirt]

My savages in 223 like the 225646 but they have 1-9 twist. They also shoot the Bator very well, and chances are that 788 would also, along with the 225415. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Marlin Junky]

My savages in 223 like the 225646 but they have 1-9 twist. They also shoot the Bator very well, and chances are that 788 would also, along with the 225415. Good luck!
1Shirt!:coffee:

I've gotta cast 'em before I can shoot 'em and I'm trying to decide which mold would be a good choice for a .22 greenhorn. A Greenhorn that also happens to be a perfectionist. On the plus side, I don't easily become frustrated.

I'm hoping the 788 turns out to have a 12" twist. If it's a 14-er, I won't buy it. If it is a 1:12", I may need a couple molds; i.e., one that casts boolits to be pushed at normal speeds and one that casts a short boolit for 22LR-like velocities.

MJ

[excess650]

I would suggest that you look at the upcoming group buys from NOE for the Eagan designs. I'm finding tapered boolits seem easier to obtain accuracy with. IIRC, there was a recent NOE GB for a 70gr, and that might be worth looking into as well.

Yeah, you'll have to keep the heat up, pressure cast with a ladle, and keep the cadence quick.

[rhbrink]

I have a Lyman 225415 cast great I"ve cast both soft alloys and hard as in linotype no problem just do as excess650 says keep the heat up cast fast and I do ladle pour. The NOE 70 gr does just great in a 12" twist and the Eagan 62 grain maybe a little better. I don't have the mold but someone on the forum gave me some to try out and they shoot just fine.
I personally don't see any reason for a lighter mold than the 415 just cast it softer and slow it down if needed. I have shot some in my basement using .75 grains of Bullseye and as cast 225415 rolled in mule snot load one at a time use the same case prime, drop the powder and seat a boolit by hand load and fire pretty fun shoots great sounds about like a CB cap.

Richard

[cbrick]

I've got better than 70 molds and my newest, the RCBS 22 55 FN is the easiest casting mold of all of them. When I got it I cleaned it, pre-heated it and the most perfect bullets ya ever saw just jump out it. For me RCBS has always been a good mold but they have really stepped up the quality in the past few years, at least judging by the few I've bought. It's really a joy to use.

Rick

[Marlin Junky]

I've got better than 70 molds and my newest, the RCBS 22 55 FN is the easiest casting mold of all of them. When I got it I cleaned it, pre-heated it and the most perfect bullets ya ever saw just jump out it. For me RCBS has always been a good mold but they have really stepped up the quality in the past few years, at least judging by the few I've bought. It's really a joy to use.

Rick

Rick,

Can you post a picture of what I can expect of RCBS 22-055 with your alloy spec's and casting conditions? I've already got the best ladles made for boolit casting so no need to go there.

How do you feel about the Lyman 415 and 646 designs? The 415 looks like it doesn't hold enough lube and I'm afraid of Lyman disappointing me again with undersized cavities and virtually non-existent vent lines. 646 looks like it might hold enough alloy to keep the blocks warm though.

Thank you,
MJ

[cbrick]

I've never used either of those Lyman designs so can't say.

I cast the RCBS 55 from CWW+ 2% Sn at 56.5 gr. Bullet length is .640", nose length is .300", bearing surface is .375" @ 58% of bullet length. My mold cast @ .225". I mostly ladle cast anymore and with the little bullets like this or HP's I'll run the pot temp up to about 720-730 degrees & pre-heat the mold to about 400 degrees. Bull Plate of course. I've had no problems keeping the mold hot as long as I get it hot enough in the first place.

Rick

[mdr8088]

How do cast bullets work in AR's? I'm worried about the gas system leading?

[7br]

I may get an opportunity to purchase a 788 in .223 next week. What mold(s) have you guys found to be the easiest to cast perfect little boolits? I tried an RCBS 22-055-SP years ago and found it a bit difficult to keep hot. I suppose I could turn up the heat and cast a bit faster since discovering lubes that actually may work at 500F.

Thanks,
MJ

You might go to the boolit exchange and ask. Actually, I have quite a few of the RCBS 22-055 cast up and can send you some. Drop me a pm if you get it.


How do cast bullets work in AR's? I'm worried about the gas system leading?

You might check out the threads on the ar15 in the cast boolits/military rifles forum. I play with my ar15 in 6.8spc off and on with cast boolits and have not had a problem.

[Larry Gibson]

MJ

Lyman's 225438 and 225462 are the top peformers at higher velocity and down at .22LR velocities in my 12" twist .223s and in numerous other 12" .223s I've shot them in over the years. They also are the top performers in 14" twist 222s and 223s, especially at top velocities of 2200 - 2400+ fps. The FN 225415 and the RCBS cousin do quite well at .22LR velocities up through 1800 fps or so but the long unsupported ogive of the nose is not conudcive to best consistent accuracy above that.

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

How do cast bullets work in AR's? I'm worried about the gas system leading?

The myth continues........:sad:

Larry Gibson

[cbrick]

+1 for the 438, shoots very well in my Hornet but I've never tried to push it to max velocities so can't speak to that, I seldom aim for top velocity in any of the calibers I load for. My goals are normally acceptable velocity with good accuracy and in that the 438 does shoot well.

Rick

[Marlin Junky]

Rick,

Have you had the 225438 mold for a while? How does it cast?

MJ

[brotherdarrell]

In the last year I have purchased both the lyman 225415 and the -438, and the rcbs 22-055. The lyman -415 and the rcbs both drop .225 x .224 and the -438 drops .225 x .227. My rem 788 in .222 slugs at .2245. Of the three above molds the -438 is the only one that will start to group with my best to date being in the 1 1/4" @ 100 yds area. My 788 .222 has a very short throat. I can seat the 225438 with both lube grooves covered and still touch the rifling. My 788 in 22-250 is exactly the opposite, the barrel slugs at .2235 and the throat is long enough that I can seat a "bad bator" mold bullet with the top lube groove exposed after sizing to .225".

Just a few things to think about regarding the 788

brotherdarrell

[Marlin Junky]

Lyman's 225438 and 225462 are the top peformers at higher velocity and down at .22LR velocities in my 12" twist .223s...

Larry Gibson

Larry,

How far into the .223 case do you seat 225438? Do you just cover the trailing LG and leave the forward LG outside the case unlubed? (Thanks for the pic of 438 Rick).

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

My 788 .222 has a very short throat. I can seat the 225438 with both lube grooves covered and still touch the rifling...

brotherdarrell

I've never owned a .223, in any rifle. What experience makes you think both the .222 and .223 788's have short throats?

MJ

[cbrick]

Rick, Have you had the 225438 mold for a while? How does it cast? MJ

Not only have I had it for several years but I got it used, really have no idea how old it but it's hardly a new mold. But it is a fine caster, wish it was 4 cav but I also wish my RCBS 22 55 FN was a 4 cav.

Rick

[brotherdarrell]

MJ

No reason to think that the .223 would have a short throat, but it is a factor that could come into play as far as OAL. I can seat the bator boolit out of my .223(ar) and 22-250 due to 'long' throats. The same boolit in my .222 gets pushed back into the case to the point that the base of the boolit is below the neck. Being able to change the oal is a useful 'tool' is finding accuracy.

Point being all guns are different. My ar prefers the rcbs 22-055, and will not group the 225415.

brotherdarrell

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

How far into the .223 case do you seat 225438? Do you just cover the trailing LG and leave the forward LG outside the case unlubed? (Thanks for the pic of 438 Rick).

MJ

One photo of the 438 shows seating for my 2 shortest chambers; M70 XTR and Contender 21", both with 12" twists and .223 chambers. The 462 is seated for my M700V and AR, both with 12" twists and milspec chambers. Both very slightly will be engraved by the leade on chambering. The 438s are sized .225 and the 642s are "as cast" at .227 (GC seated and lubed in a .228 H die).

BTW; My opinion is the .222 Rem is the better .22CF cast bullet cartridge because of it's longer neck (can seat LGs inside w/o GC going below the case neck and because they usually have the 14" twist. One of the worst gun trades I made was letting a "friend" talk me out of a M788 in .222 Rem.

Larry Gibson

[beagle]

The M788, I expect, will be a 1-12 twist and should handle either the 225415 or the 22-55-SP as far as stabilization and accuracy.

I believe I'd go with the 225415 as it seems like I recall the mag on the 788s being a bit short. You might post here and see if a member who has one can tell you the OAL the mag will accept./beagle

[Marlin Junky]

You might post here and see if a member who has one can tell you the OAL the mag will accept./beagle

Beagle,

According to Frank De Haas in Bolt Action Rifles, a .222 Magazine has an inside length of 2.315 and will handle both the .223 and .222mag. I doubt the magazine is going to be the limiting factor. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the only difference between a .222 magazine and a .223 magazine was the chamber designation stamped on it.

MJ

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks for the pics Larry. Does one really need to lube both grooves of 438 to achieve 1MOA at rimfire velocities?

MJ

[brotherdarrell]

I don't have the .223 mag, but a .223 will fit the mag from my .222 and it will feed into the chamber(obviously i can't close the bolt). in addition the inside length is 2.315. The mag is stamped '222 rem'.

brotherdarrell

[mroliver77]

Read up on .223 cast on castpics.
http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ByCaliber/default.html

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks for the pics Larry. Does one really need to lube both grooves of 438 to achieve 1MOA at rimfire velocities?

MJ

No, even a light coat of LLA does fine for those .22LR level loads. But when you push them to higher velocities in the 2400+ range, yes you do need to lube all the lube grooves.

Larry Gibson

[Marlin Junky]

The 788 in .223 I was interested in turned out to have a 14" twist so I'm still looking for a lead boolit varmint rifle.

MJ

[Larry Gibson]

MJ

Hmmmm...seems like I was correct. If I was you I would get that M788. The 14" twist is perfect for what you want. It will handle all cast bullets very well up through the Lyman 225462 from .22LR velocities upwards of 2400 - 2500+ fps. I understand why you don't want to get it but you are really passing up on a very good cast bullet 22 CF rifle.

Larry Gibson