Whatever happened to Alcan powders?

[Leadmelter]

I was rereading some old manuals from Lyman and they mentioned Alcan 8 powder. I remember using this in my youth but what happened to that line and what is a close equivalent?
Happy New Year to all!
Gerry
MI

[mpmarty]

AL-8 was a terrible powder. It was huge square flakes that wouldn't measure through any powder measure worth a darn. Most folks never bought a second can of it. It was spendy too as it came in 8 ounce cans instead of a pound. Good Riddance. AA-9 is close to what AL-8 was in burning rate but it measures like a dream.

[runfiverun]

they were trying to be a trendy upscale reloading product during a time that reloaders were neither.
their wads were a gimmicky reverse winchester affair, their powders are mentioned above i still have some al-5 here i might burn up one of these days.

[DLCTEX]

I still have a couple pounds of Alcan 7 and part of a pound of Alcan 8. I liked the Alcan 7 for shotgun and pistol loads. I bought an 8# can at an estate auction once and was sad to use it up.Oh, I gave $5 for the 8#'s, that was about 2004 Any idea who manufactured it?

[stubshaft]

IIRC - Accurate Arms was producing the old Alcan line with the AA prefix rather than the AL.

[frkelly74]

I have been using some old AL5 for reduced loads. It has white flakes in it as a tagging agent. Dirtier than unique in rifles and won't all burn in my 45 loads. If I shoot into the wind I get peppered with unburnt powder. But it was cheap and I do have some Lyman data for it.

[cajun shooter]

I worked in a gun store in the early 70's and we sold the Alcan powders. I remember one load for 38 spl that I wanted to try that called for Al-7 or Al-5. It was the Speer 148 HBWC loaded backwards and was being used by the air Marshals of the time.
The can was small and square and was as posted by mpmarty and only held 8 ounces.
This was not to the liking of reloaders of the time as the other powders were only a few dollars a pound.
I purchased Bullseye,Unique,2400 and H 110 for under $3 a can.

[jimwill48]

I grew up about 60 miles from the Alcan plant over by St Louis so Alcan products were very easy to obtain. I tried the powders but only once but I used the heck out of Alcan primers. They were very good, cheap and always available.

[Rocky Raab]

I grew up even closer, and remember driving there with my Dad to buy a pickup load of powder, wads and shot at a time. The plant was in Alton, Illinois.

Alcan began selling reloading supplies right after WWII - the first company to do so. If it were not for Alcan, the reloading world might be a lot different today. Their success prompted competition from the other possible suppliers; the demand for reloading products spurred the creation of Hodgdon, for example. Eventually, Alcan folded for several reasons, the final one of which was the destruction of the Bofors powder plant in Sweden - their supplier.

Of their four shotgun powders (Al-120, AL-5, AL-7, and AL-8) the three faster ones have the best application to handguns. AL-8 was a true magnum shotgun powder and only worked well at high-end handgun loads. It acted a lot like 4227 in handguns, requiring a full charge, a magnum primer and a heavy crimp under a heavy bullet. Not for sissies.

I've used it for dino-slayer loads in the 45 Colt. There are better choices among the other powders, though.

[1Shirt]

Shot a lot of Alcan in shotguns about 40 years ago. Times change and so do reloading products.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Reload3006]

Smith and Wesson bought Alcan in or around the late seventies or early eithties ran it for a few years and then just shut it down. It really pissed me off as I absolutely loved Alcan powder

[357maximum]

I had about 12 lbs of AL8 given to me a year or so back that a buddy of mine got with a boxlot at an auction. It had that funky ammonia smell to it and the red osier dogwoods, and ninebark shrubs out back are proably still sucking some nourishment out of it. 8-)

[shaune509]

picked up a 12# keg of al120 last year ['10] for $20.00. Smell is good and flash burn test seemed ok,not used any to load yet. Alcan did a great service to the reloading community with there extensive line of supplies that they eather made [shot wads, cards]or imported [powder, berdan primers, brass shot shells]for the era.
shaune509

[Cherokee]

I used a lot of Alcan powder - AL5, AL7 - in handgun loads. Worked for me at the time.

[JohnFM]

From the '60s up into the '80s, I think, we all used to use a lot of Alcan stuff.
At one time or another I had every powder they sold.
Most of us used paper and I remember they had real good prices on new paper hulls.
We were all sad to see them go away.
I bet if I dug through some boxes of old target loads I'd still find a few old Alcan shells.

[Rocky Raab]

Shaune, you'll really like AL-120 for target/light loads in most handgun cartridges. Begin with RedDot or Clays data and fine-tune your loads from there.

[jimwill48]

And lets not forget the Alcan loaded shotgun shells. I used these by the case if I remember right on sale they were about $2.25 a box for 12ga 1oz 3 dram loads. We used to have huge flocks of starlings that caused all kinds of problems at the coal mines and they let us on the property to thin the flocks it was nothing to shoot a case of 12ga.'s in a evening. I also used the Alcan shells for rabbit and quail and even trap.. Still have a box I keep for of times sake....

[Amy@wild]

:grin:[smilie=6::kidding::bootgive:
I was rereading some old manuals from Lyman and they mentioned Alcan 8 powder. I remember using this in my youth but what happened to that line and what is a close equivalent?
Happy New Year to all!
Gerry
MI

[Amy@wild]

Any Body know about alcan al-101 shotgun powder?
Amy@wild

[BCB]

I got a 6-pound keg of AL-8 from Bartlett some years back…

As mentioned, it really doesn’t meter very well, but I still use it from time to time…

I had pretty good luck with it in the 357 Magnum with the 358429. I was able to get 1125 fps from a 6” Security-Six…

I tried it in a 45 Colt with the 45-270-SAA and I could not get any velocity and I think I was getting high pressure at only 800+ fps—I may be wrong on this, but things just didn’t seem right so I quit using it in the 45 Colt…

I was using Blue Dot data as a starter…

A couple of months ago, I acquired and old Herters shot shell reloader and along with it come a 3-pound canister of AL-5 and part of an 8-ounce canister of AL-5 also…

I think I will try it in the 357 Magnum, but I am uncertain as to what data to use. Although, I think if I research a bit, there might be data out there for that powder…

Powder Profiles might list some starting points…

It’s always kind of “neat” to use some of the older powders—nostalgia maybe?...

BCB

[swheeler]

I still have a couple pounds of Alcan 7 and part of a pound of Alcan 8. I liked the Alcan 7 for shotgun and pistol loads. I bought an 8# can at an estate auction once and was sad to use it up.Oh, I gave $5 for the 8#'s, that was about 2004 Any idea who manufactured it?Bofors -Sweden

[zomby woof]

I bought a 3 pound can of AL-8 a few years ago. It works great for 30 Carbine.

[kenyerian]

I used a lot of the Alcan primers back when I was into trap shooting. Didn't really care for their powders or wads.

[Whitespider]

I don't remember AL-8, but I still have a quantity of AL-5 and AL-7 left over (like over a pound of each)... heck, I don't even remember what I used it for back-in-the-day.
*

[Elkins45]

I got a 6-pound keg of AL-8 from Bartlett some years back…

I was using Blue Dot data as a starter…


I have one of those jugs too. It actually has "use Blue Dot data" written on the jug with a Sharpie.

I think mine is deteriorating. It still smells fine but some of the grains are a strange translucent tan color and when using real AL-8 data from my old manuals I get rediculously low velocities and a huge amount of unburned grains. I think they are the tan ones. The stuff in the jug is clearly an Alcan powder because it's the little square sheets.

I have found that if I load a little bit over the published max that I get "normal" performance and clean burning, but no signs of excessive pressure at all. NOTE: this is not loading advice. Don't blow up your gun.

[BCB]

I have one of those jugs too. It actually has "use Blue Dot data" written on the jug with a Sharpie.

I think mine is deteriorating. It still smells fine but some of the grains are a strange translucent tan color and when using real AL-8 data from my old manuals I get rediculously low velocities and a huge amount of unburned grains. I think they are the tan ones. The stuff in the jug is clearly an Alcan powder because it's the little square sheets.

I have found that if I load a little bit over the published max that I get "normal" performance and clean burning, but no signs of excessive pressure at all. NOTE: this is not loading advice. Don't blow up your gun.

The grains in my AL-8 are sort of a yellow-green and gray color. The color of that grains are not uniform. Maybe that is what you mean by translucent tan color?...

I was shooting 12 grains of it in my Security Six with the 358429 (~173 grains) and was getting 1154 fps. I don't know how that compares to the same charge of Blue Dot--I never compared...

Eleven grains in the 45 Colt with the 45-270-SAA produced 963 fps. Again, I never compared it to Blue Dot...

Really I mostly used the only canister of Blue Dot that I purchased, probably over 20 years ago, for shotgun reloading...

At the price I paid for the AL-8, it is still O.K. to use but a bit difficult to meter. I still just meter loads for the most part as I am shooting below maximum. Or at least I think I am. The cases almost drop from the Rugers and some actually do...

Good-luck...BCB

[Echo]

Back in the day I tried some in my Ruger .357 BH with Lee SWCGC boolits, No chrony, but shot fine - but:
Flashed horribly. When shooting near dusk, the flash out the side of the cylinder was disconcerting, to say the least. Saucer-size on both sides...

[dragonrider]

I have one can each of Al-7and Al-5, perhaps half full. Got them and a bunch of others from an old guy who had to give up the hobby because he was going blind. If anyone wants them they are yours free but must be a face to face pickup. I have other powders that I would give a way also. Some that I will never use.

[jonp]

I have been using some old AL5 for reduced loads. It has white flakes in it as a tagging agent. Dirtier than unique in rifles and won't all burn in my 45 loads. If I shoot into the wind I get peppered with unburnt powder. But it was cheap and I do have some Lyman data for it.
Are you sure it's al5 you have with white flakes

[BCB]

Are you sure it's al5 you have with white flakes

Yep, my recently acquired AL-5 has the white flakes in it...

Just shot a box of 357's and the 358429's yesterday and today...

BCB

[OverMax]

IMHO: I used Alcan products years ago. I always thought there products were First Class. AL-5 and AL-7 were decent powders. #5 was a great upland bird powder for the 12 ga 2-3/4 as was #7 for heavy 3" loadings. Never found a purpose for using #8. I know Alcan sold very reliable 209 primers verses what was available from the US manufactures. I kind'a think Alcan was bought out by Norma. But that may be a bold statement on my part as I don't really don't know for sure. The only American powder at that time that was as near as useful as Alcan's was Dupont's IMR. Hercules and Hodgdon let me say were second shelf powders back in those days when compared to either Dupont or Alcan. It truly was a disappointing day for the American shooting community when Alcan decided to discontinued their exporting to the US.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm waking up this old thread.

Today, I was loading some 45 ACP (for revolver, S&W 625). One load I was researching, was a heavy 258gr Lee SWC ...and in the Lyman CBHB#3, they list a load for 45 Auto Rim with a 225gr boolit and AL-7. I've been looking for AL-7 data as I have about 4 or 5 lbs, I'd like to burn up. So this is good news :)
I'll report back with load data and results after I get to the range. I gotta remember to bring the chrony :)

[Goatwhiskers]

Good ol' Alcan. Was digging thru some old stored stuff and found a couple dozen new Alcan 12ga. brass hulls. Got 'em for some project that never materialized. Found out that you have to use an Alcan primer, forget the number, nothing else fits the pocket. Oh well. GW

[bgokk]

Back in the '80s I was loading the .41 Mag. with 17 grains of AL8, CCI300, and Sierra JHC 210. Never chronoed the 17 grain load, but 16.6 was going 1258 FPS. The 17 grain load was very accurate. That load killed several deer over the years.


I still have some of the 17 grain loads that I saved for hunting. I will have to run some over the chrono.

I miss AL8.

Here is one for .357 Mag.


Reming SJHP

158 Gr.

Alcan 8

12.0 Gr.

CCI 500


Heavy

24000

1310 FPS

602 FP

This load was very accurate in M-19. Took doe in Ark.





Still have 3 pounds of AL5. These were a couple that worked well in 38 Spl.

Speer SJHP

146 Gr.

Alcan 5

7.5 Gr.

CCI 500

To Frt. of Jac.

Heavy

15000

1025 FPS

341 FP

Burns clean in 4"






Speer JSP

125 Gr.

Alcan 5

9.0 Gr.

CCI 500

Crimp groove

Heavy


1350 FPS

505 FP

Good load




This data was from manuals of the period. You can see it was before I discovered casting.[smilie=w:

[gwpercle]

I still have some! Pulled out the 8 ounce can, AL-5, made in Sweden for S & W Ammunition co., manufactured by Aktiebolaget Bofors. Says " White Flakes have been added to AL-5 for positive identification. " and " write for free reloading data" . Price was $2.00. I bought it because it was two bucks and Speer #8 and Lyman #3 books had a little data for it. I haven't used very much of it, can is nearly full, like the pack-rat I am saving it for the day powder supply gets short....wait that's NOW! Might as well start using it.
I guess when S&W got out of the ammo and reloading components business Alcan went away.
I remember using a lot of Alcan primers and still have a few boxes in my " stash " .
Gary

[bedbugbilly]

This isn't in regards to Alcan powder but I can remember using quite a few Alcan Musket Caps back in the early 60s. They were about the only musket caps I could get. Somewhere, I still have a partial can of them kicking around - 100 count tins. If I remember correctly (I read it somewhere), when Alcan started to make the musket caps, Dixie Gun Works (Turner Kirkland) put an initial order in for something like a million of them (don't quote me on that though) :-). The caps worked O.K. but you could expect a few misfires out of every tin - not as good as the German caps which you could sometimes get. I don't' remember the price of the Alccan caps - I believe around 40 cents a tin possibly? I do know that at the same time I started shooting rifled musket (NSSA) that I was paying 25 cents a tine of 100 for Remington #11 caps and seventy five cents a pound for DuPont 2F and 3F black powder. But . . . I was mowing lawns for 50 cents an hour and I paid for the gas and furnished the push mower too!

[Alstep]

Anybody have any loading data for Alcan #7 in 38 Special & 45 ACP? That is, if it's suitable for those cartridges. None of my manuals mention Alcan powder. What else might it be useful for? I've got a 3 pounder laying around waiting to burn.

[Iowa Fox]

I killed a lot of pheasants using AL5 with 1 1/4 oz of #5s

[BCB]

Anybody have any loading data for Alcan #7 in 38 Special & 45 ACP? That is, if it's suitable for those cartridges. None of my manuals mention Alcan powder. What else might it be useful for? I've got a 3 pounder laying around waiting to burn.

What boolit/bullet weight for each of them...

Speer #9 has data...

Good-luck...BCB

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm waking up this old thread.

Today, I was loading some 45 ACP (for revolver, S&W 625). One load I was researching, was a heavy 258gr Lee SWC ...and in the Lyman CBHB#3, they list a load for 45 Auto Rim with a 225gr boolit and AL-7. I've been looking for AL-7 data as I have about 4 or 5 lbs, I'd like to burn up. So this is good news :)
I'll report back with load data and results after I get to the range. I gotta remember to bring the chrony :)


Anybody have any loading data for Alcan #7 in 38 Special & 45 ACP? That is, if it's suitable for those cartridges. None of my manuals mention Alcan powder. What else might it be useful for? I've got a 3 pounder laying around waiting to burn.

Well, I forgot the tripod for the chrony :(
But I brought some 45's in my 'pet' loads for comparison.

My fav load is 5.0gr of Red Dot with the Lee 452-228-1R.
it's a stout load, but I've found that Red dot burns much cleaner when the pressure is higher.

I also brought some 240gr RF loaded with 4.3gr of titegroup. it's a pretty light load.

with those now mentioned, I loaded the Lee 452-255 SWC with two different charges of AL-7
#1 was 8.6gr (.82cc lee disc)
#2 was 9.2gr (.88cc Lee disc)

#1 had felt recoil (in a 4" JM 625-8 S&W) about the same as the Red dot loads, and shot cleaner and less smoke. No high pressure signs to speak of and was more accurate than load #2.

#2 Had more felt recoil than the red dot. Some of the Primers were starting to flatten. I would not shoot this load in a auto and I won't be loading any more of this load for revolver use either, load #1 is more than adequite.

[Alstep]

What boolit/bullet weight for each of them...

Speer #9 has data...

Good-luck...BCB


148 & 158 grain in 38 Special & 357 Mag revolver.
200 grain in 45 ACP for a 1911.
All cast boolits.

[BCB]

148 & 158 grain in 38 Special & 357 Mag revolver.
200 grain in 45 ACP for a 1911.
All cast boolits.

I'll try to attach a couple of pdf files I scanned...

No data for the 45 acp--probably too slow for it...

You'll probably need Adobe to open the fills...

Good-luck...

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

AL-7 is very similar to Blue dot in burn rate.

I wouldn't use either powder for light weight for caliber boolits.

158gr in 357M should be a good match, IMHO.

[Echo]

Dupe, you dope!

[RayinNH]

AL-7 is very similar to Blue dot in burn rate.

I wouldn't use either powder for light weight for caliber boolits.

158gr in 357M should be a good match, IMHO.

I bought some Al-8 from Jeff Bartlett in 2000. He suggested using Bluedot data for starting loads. I loved it in the .45 Colt cartridge. It always left some unburned powder, easily spotted when shooting over snow. It also has a sweet smell to it when burned unlike Trail Boss which smells like stale urine.

I'm using up a brick of Alcan Maxfire primers I purchased at a gunshow about six years ago for $9.00. These are the large rifle size.

[Alstep]

I'll try to attach a couple of pdf files I scanned...

No data for the 45 acp--probably too slow for it...

You'll probably need Adobe to open the fills...

Good-luck...



Thank you BCB. Appreciate the info.

[Elkins45]

My old Sierra loading manual purchased back in 1980 has quite a bit of data for the Alcan powders. I will be happy to look something up for anybody who asks.

i have discovered that 7.5 grains of AL-8 is a good load for subsonic 300 BLK with 200 grain cast bullets. It reliably cycles a suppressed 10" AR with a pistol gas system. When I use up my jug of AL-8 I think the next experiment will be with 800X.

[gcouger]

If I remember right its a compressed load in 357 and it may be fill it full it almost full and compress the load. That was 30 or more years ago from memory. I liked the load because it couldn't be overloaded enough to hurt.

GC

[BaconStrips]

Here is an Alcan load manual from 1966 if anyone is interested. It is 23 pages. The last page has a few loads for 38sp and 357.
Half the page is gone with what was the 45acp data if I remember correctly.

www.castpics.net/LoadData/OM/Alcan.pdf

[44man]

I used a lot af Alcan powders in shotshells, also a lot of Herter's stuff, old original Jack Pine Savage stuff from George. His catalogs were nothing but fun with decent stuff at good prices.
I still have some of the long range uncut shotshell one piece plastic wads. Still using the forged knife and have butchered every deer with it.

[rogn]

Just doing some research on Alcan and stumbled on this. My experience w AL7 has been very good. Ive used it in the past for 20a and 12 ga duck loads-alas no more. Now Ive been slowly going thru a 3#r using it in 357, 45 Colt, 40S&W, 7mm WSM, 300WSM, and yes 375 Ruger. Runs clean in all of them and accuracy is very good. The 375 is the best, an unsized 255r 38/55 Lee bulet soaked in Lee lox stuff will approximate the old cartridge and tends to stay <MOA at 100 for 3 shots. I can't decide whether to burn it up, or just meter it out slowly. With cast bullet loads it has been very satisfactory.

[MW3840]

Many mule deer, whitetail and even 1 antelope, fell in Montana during the 70's and 80's, when hit with a 240 gr. Speer HP in front of 22.5 grs. of AL-8 out of my Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Mag. That AL-8 gave a recorded 1512 fps. I absolutely loved that powder and will rue the day when I finally run out.

[Newtire]

I've heard that it's close to Blue Dot but don't think I'd put 22.5 grains of Blue Dot into a .44 mag. I'm using 20.5 Blue Dot and a 260 gr.(by wt.) cast boolit for 1700fps + in a .444 Marlin. Don't think I'd try that in a .44 magnum even if it would fit.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The Wilmar gunshow last weekend, there was a guy with several 8 oz (sealed) cans of Alcan...some were AL-5, and AL-7, and a couple AL-8. all priced at $20 each. I offered him less, and I appeared to offend him...Oh well:|

[Newtire]

I picked up some AL-8 & loaded it into some 20 gauge shells. Wound up plugging up my 1100 trigger group real bad. Shot up the rest in .44 peestola loads.

[Tedbytes]

I was rereading some old manuals from Lyman and they mentioned Alcan 8 powder. I remember using this in my youth but what happened to that line and what is a close equivalent?
Happy New Year to all!
Gerry
MII was privileged as a dealer to have accumulated quite a large stockpile of both AL 5 and AL 8 powder from a distressed supplier forty years ago. I still own about 13 pounds total of these fine Swedish manufactured powders as distributed by Smith and Wesson thru their Alton,Illinois facility. I still use both in 38,357 and many pistol applications. They are what are called " square lamuel" shaped powders and are extremely clean burning. Standard primers are used in all my loads from 9mm through 44 Magnum with Al-8 being the preferred magnum powder. There is no known shelf life for these powders to my knowledge. Six grains of AL-5 with a 158 LHP police defense load works well in J frame thru K and L frame SW and Colt revolvers. Metering is not as bad as 800X or other large flake powders. There were other Alcan powders as well to include their AL 120 and AL 7 which I never had the honor to use. Don't knock these oldies,there were and are still "goodies". Ted

[RG1911]

AL-7 was my powder of choice for 9mm with a 124-gr cast truncated cone. I wish it were still available. I haven't reloaded 9mm for some years, but am thinking about starting again. (Now where is that mold?)

Richard

[Frank V]

I have a partial 8lb canister of AL7, I found data for it in the Speer #8 (Stagecoach) manual. I reduced the starting loads the old Speer manual was pretty aggresive with loads & am happy with it in the .45 Colt.

It also had data for AL5,7, & 8, for the .38 Special. I really like the old Speer #8 for reference, I think everyone should have one. Now & then they can be found at gun shows.

[10 ga]

In early 60s I got my 1st reloading "kit". Lee loader for 12 ga shotgun. Only used those Alcan powders for a long time. Used AL 7 and AL 8. Loaded everything from 1 oz dove shells to 1.5 oz baby mags. I remember in 65 when I gave some baby mags to my cousin, When the 1st flight of black ducks came in looked like those shells burned them ducks out of the sky, LOL, we killed a bunch that day. those Al powders dippered out just fine. Now know they were kinda dirty but compared to the old Canuk shells us kids could buy they were better than "Blue Peters". Yeah, I miss the old days but like the new powders. wish I could find some Blue Dot, my #10 guns are getting kinda hungry for big shells. 10