Moly Coating Lead

[Forester]

Has anyone here tried the moly coating kits like midway has for sale with lead boolits?

Could these moly coated boolits be shot at mild velocities (700-900fps) without any lube at all in hopes of reducing smoke?

The reason I ask is I shoot an awful lot of .45ACP in IDPA type matches and in practice for those matches. In a match setting it seems the smoke can be a problem, especially when the sun is in just the wrong place. I have been thinking about going back to plated bullets just for matches but I hate to spend the $$ if I can find a better way using my cast boolits.

[kywoodwrkr]

I received this reply to a question I asked about some bullets I was shipped with a barrel, dies and etc.
Does not answer your question but does mention an additional kindred coating. This is from a sil. Shooter.

"The bullets that I sent are coated with danzac powder instead of moly. Danzac is similiar to moly but it will withstand more pressure and higher temps than moly will. I have always had great results using it as long as the bore is nice and smooth. It's a waste of money and time to use moly or danzac coated bullets in a rough barrel that collects copper. "

Also note the comment on smoothness.
FWIW.
DaveP kywoodwrkr

[garandsrus]

Forester,

I bought some Zero brand .38 cal wad cutter bullets before I started casting. They are lubed with what looks like moly. Zero calls it a "dry lube". Here's a link (http://208.178.180.182/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=ZB&Category_Code=LB-38) to the bullet on their site. You might call them to ask what the lube is.

I don't remember whether or not they produced much smoke when shot. They were a mess to handle while reloading though!

I moly coat jacketed bullets (223 and 308) and they are not messy at all when done. I tumble the moly lubed bullet in sawdust for about 10 minutes to clean/polish the coated bullet. I have thought about doing the same to the .38 bullets I bought.

If you want to try some .38 bullets, I can send you a handfull.

John

[cbrick]

Don't know if I'm passing on rubbish cause I've never tried it myself but I've read on the forums that others trying moly without lube met with badly leaded bores.

Rick

[Dale53]

You know, if we work at it we can REALLY make this sport complicated...

Dale53

[kywoodwrkr]

Dale53,
:drinks:
DaveP kywoodwrkr

[cbrick]

You know, if we work at it we can REALLY make this sport complicated... Dale53

One of the fascinations of bullet casting is the experimentation. Try this, change that, tweak this. To complicate things isn't the point. To some shooters, reloaders (not handloaders) and casters whatever the book says is it, its set in concrete and that's what they do. Exactly this much powder, COL set to exactly this length, this exact bullet weight etc. and if it goes bang they're happy. To others, experimentation and curiosity is what drives them on and this is a good thing. There are no dumb questions, only curiosity without an answer.

Let the education continue.

Rick

[leftiye]

Complicated or no (I look at it as being trying for the best ctgs. I can produce), All of my really "insane" creations were rolled in Moly Lube - .45 Colt/16 grs Blue Dot /1250 fps.; M1 carbine 115grainers @ 2500 fps(out of 30-30); .357 158s at 1400 fps. Heat treated, no leading, good accuracy (good 'nuff, end of story). Moly Lube was MDS in a kind of phenolic carrier that dried - no longer available. I even added extra MDS and solvents to it, and it still worked. Don't remember any smoke (don't remember any smoke with anything though). I use MS Moly spray lube for this now.

[The Dust Collector]

Not trying to get to far from the subject... Complicated is just a matter of perception and personal compitence. In past times I've done what ever it takes to reach a particular end as long as that end is obtainable. I have found personally that it is one of the more rewarding aspects of this science. Time consuming? Well, I think of it as a labor of love. DUST

[Forester]

Thanks for all the good comments. Yes we can make things complicated but I long ago decided that the reality was that I shoot so I can reload just as much as the reverse.

A friend of mine just picked up a Moly Coating kit from Midway, I think I will get him to tumble 20-30 200gr LSWCs to try soon. Worst case I have to clean some lead out of the barrel once and I will know never to try that again!

I don’t really want to have to do this on 20K .45ACP boolits a year, but if I could do a few hundred a month to reduce smoke for matches that would be perfect.

Another wrinkle...I suppose Moly Coating a tumble lube design might lead to more Moly being held in the small grease grooves...anyone want to volunteer a few TL .452 size boolits for an experiment?[smilie=1:

[lovedogs]

I've not tried any bullets with Moly but have friends who have. Their experience with the Moly itself doing the fouling prevented me from trying it. I've heard that Moly fouling is worse than leading. Just what I've heard.

[garandsrus]

Forester,

The moly won't build up in the TL grooves. It is a dry powder that gets embedded in the bullet surface through the banging together of the bullets in the tumbler.

I don't know why, but the moly kits say that you need to use different bowls for tumbling lead and jacketed bullets. I have only used moly with jacketed.

With .223 bullets, I moly 500 at a time. I tumble them for about 45 minutes, so it doesn't really take very long to do a bunch. 45's are quite a bit heavier though, so you will be limited by the weight your tumbler can hold.

After I tumble them with moly, I also tumble them with sawdust for about 10 minutes. This removes the excess moly so the bullets aren't messy to handle.

John

[shooter93]

Some very interesting reading on Moly coating can be had if you get back issues of precision Shooting. Merrill Martin was one of the developers of the process and he wrote quite a bit about the process...advantages and dis-advantages.

[The Dust Collector]

I've never tumbled my cast bullets because of my fear of distorting my efforts in trying to cast perfect bullets in the first place.....What I have had really good results with is prepping the bores of my handguns before shooting.
I do this by making sure that my bores are very clean, (no leading or oil remaing) and dry. I take a tight fitting patch that is completly blackened with the moly and the polish the bore briskly. After doing so the bore shines from such a treatment.
Done so, I have loaded and fired some very stout rounds in my 44Mag. and 357Mag. with out any problem of leading.
Of course I still lubricate my cast bullets as I size them. The lubricant that I use is the old Alox/Beeswax 50/50 mixture.
I've gotten good results....
At this point, I see no reason to change anything! DUST:Fire: :Fire:
:castmine:

[Sundogg1911]

Forester,
Have you tried different lubes? I've used some really smokey lubes, and some not too smokey lubes. That may get'cha less leading than no lube, moly coated.

[The Dust Collector]

Rethinking what I wrote previously, I don't shoot indoors. I failed to suggest that by polishing your bore with the moly and at the lowered velosities that you mentioned, I would strongly suspect that lubing only one band of your bullet may give you the results that you are looking for reguardless of the lube that you finnally decide on using.
Give a try........:bigsmyl2:

[Blammer]

the reason you need different bowls for lead bullets and jacketed is that the lead bullets will leave a bit of "lead" behind, and if you run jacketed bullets in them afterwards, you will get moly and a bit of lead embedded in the jacketed bullets. Not the thing you want.

[Forester]

Forester,
Have you tried different lubes? I've used some really smokey lubes, and some not too smokey lubes. That may get'cha less leading than no lube, moly coated.

Yes, I have tried a few different lubes and some are certainly better than others.

What lead me to this line of thinking was finding several of my boolits with lots of lube still in the bands in the backstop at the range. This was with the least smoky lube (also the hardest) I have used so far and I had no leading problems in the barrel.

Thought process was..Hmm less smoke, no leading, lube still in grooves...What if I don't lube them at all--no smoke then? Maybe slick them up with Moly instead...

If no one has first hand experience with this one I think I will have to give it a go myself. I will report back how it works. I should be able to try it sometime next week...I am shooting 3 matches this weekend to start the IDPA season off so right now I'm focusing on loading up lots of ammo.

[Boomer Mikey]

I've shoot 1-2K Bear Creek moly coated 44 cal cast bullets and 1-2K Speer moly coated 35 cal swaged bullets a year in CAS matches @ 900 fps with little to no problems, and rarely clean the guns, maybe 4 times a year (stainless). If the bores are smooth they will work fine. I also shoot Bear Creek 375's and 459's with zero problems up to 1500 fps. The bore's condition is the main factor. My rougher bores will have lead in them right at the barrel/thread constriction but it doesn't seem to build up and the moly/lead wipes out with 3-4 patches of Shooters's Choice after a wet patch of KROIL. No smoke...

Boomer :Fire:

[Forester]

I've shoot 1-2K Bear Creek moly coated 44 cal cast bullets and 1-2K Speer moly coated 35 cal swaged bullets a year in CAS matches @ 900 fps with little to no problems, and rarely clean the guns, maybe 4 times a year (stainless). If the bores are smooth they will work fine. I also shoot Bear Creek 375's and 459's with zero problems up to 1500 fps. The bore's condition is the main factor. My rougher bores will have lead in them right at the barrel/thread constriction but it doesn't seem to build up and the moly/lead wipes out with 3-4 patches of Shooters's Choice after a wet patch of KROIL. No smoke...

Boomer :Fire:

Are those boolits lubed and moly coated? Or just Moly?

[Boomer Mikey]

The Bear Creek bullets are moly coated and another coating on top of that. It feels like a wax or maybe a teflon coating. If you melt them, the shell of the coating remains. The Speer swaged bullets are just a moly film. No lube on either brand, bullets are dry. Bear Creek bullets are BHN-12 and the Speer bullets are BHN-8.

"Bear Creek moly coated bullets are manufactured to the highest
standards possible. The proprietary coating allows for a more
"forgiving" bullet proving useful in a wide range of velocities.
No leading is also a benefit with proper powder & bullet diameter
selection. These bullets are sized & ready to load with no additional
lube required for most applications. For those who prefer black
powder, we provide selected styles with grooves so lube of your choice
may be added. "

They have 5 bullets designed for 45ACP and if you buy $70 or more of their bullets they pay the freight.

http://www.bearcreeksupply.com/

Boomer :Fire: