Tuesday at the Range !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buckshot]

...........Okay, okay Carpetman pushed me into it. I haven't posted anything lately because nothing noteworthy has taken place recently. Last Tuesday we shot muzzle loaders and I won shooting a Parker-Hale repro P58, 2 band Enfield. I used the Lee target Minie' and 45.0grs of Elephant 3Fg and TC 1000 lube in the base cavity only. Shot an 86-1X. They won't let me shoot the Whitworth in the muzzle loader matches, the cretins :D

Today we shot 22RF, rifle and pistol at 50 and 25 yards respectively. I won :-). I used a BSA Martini M12/15 with Win Dynapoints to shoot a 89-2X. Had 4 in the 8 ring fergoshsakes! The pistol was a Ruger MkII 678 and again Win Dynapoints. Just after arriving at the range this AM I put up 6 bulls at 25 yards for practice with the pistol, and 5 of'em were in the 80's.

I can't seem to get out of the 80's to save my life. However I would have liked to have shot in the 80's with the peestol during the match! All I shot was a 71. Guess having that dollar riding on the outcome makes a difference!? However a 160-2X was good enough to win the pot.

Lessee whatelse? Oh yeah, I had a meat cheese and rice, with lettuce and tomato burrito and a shredded beef taco with a X-lrg diet Coke.

Guess that's about it. Beautifull day too.

................Buckshot

[44man]

Hey, Buckshot, try CCI Blue tag Mini Mag hollow points out of that Ruger Mark II. I think your scores will increase. Most accurate bullet I have found for it.

[Buckshot]

............44 Man, appreciate the info, but if they cost more then Win Dynapoints at $9.63/500 it ain't happening :-). With this bulk packed ammo the Ruger will cluster them all in an inch or a bit at 25 yards off the bags. It's not the pistol or ammo's ability that is in question :-). Besides, the other Burrito shooters would think I was putting on airs if I showed up with 'Fancy Ammo'. Heck they're shooting Federal Lightenings, or Blazers anyway!

.............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

I have been impressed with the performance of the Dynapoints From Wal-Mart in my guns too. As long as I stay seated at the bench, at least. I stand up, and things go to hell in a handbasket forthwith. Oh, well--at least the burritos are good, and the company ain't half bad either. Buckshot was kind enough to not mention the depth and degree to which he and Glen whupped my butt, so I'll not bore you with the details either.

I have four 22 LR arms--Win 290 rifle, Marlin 39A rifle, Ruger 22/45 x 5.5" pistol, and S&W 617 x 6"/6-shot revolver. Dynapoints to date have produced the most consistent groups of all varying ammos tried, and usually the smallest groups too. 4 different guns of varying make and design all doing good work with one inexpensive type of ammo borders on an epiphany.

Currently I'm trying out a number of ammo makes in the Win 290, and it is a dirt-sensitive, persnickety wench. On Tuesday, some Remington Vipers began showing signs of behaving very well--zero cycling issues and pretty good work downrange. As firing continued, the groups started expanding--dunno if it was fouling out or what. No leading was apparent, but it needs a cleaning anyway. THAT process sure makes me appreciate the Ruger 10/22 and my Marlin 39.

[Willbird]

I draw the line on 22 lr ammo when it costs more to buy than it costs to shoot a 6ppc with custom made BR bullets...waste of money in an inherently inaccurate ctg. anyway (heeled bullet and all of that.....good air rifles will shoot rings around the rings around the best 22lr rifle/ammo on earth)

Bill

[45 2.1]

OK, just HOW good will that air rifle shoot in terms of group size at 22 ranges? You can tell that I don't believe that statement, can't you.

[BruceB]

The major airgun/gasgun events are shot at 10 meters, this being for International and Olympic rifle and pistol events.

Among the Olympic and world-class shooters I knew in my competition days (I wasn't one of them, but I KNEW a few) it was an article of faith that the 10-meter guns, long or short, would group tighter than the equivalent International-quality .22 FIREarms AT THAT 10-METER RANGE. In fact, I've turned in some surprisingly-good results with a Feinwerkbau airpistol at 25 meters, but if the wind started to blow, the scores went bye-bye very quickly. This was just a stunt on my part, as there are no competitions for airguns at that distance (except maybe for silhouette??? I dunno.)

These guns are amazingly precise, and the match ammo has each pellet packed individually so they can't ding each other in shipping. Even at that, many competitors run all the pellets through a sizing die to ensure total uniformity. CO2 guns have pretty much taken over the International scene these days, offering better pressure uniformity and less operator fatigue...very important when competing at this level.

It's not difficult to spend a couple of thousand bucks if one is buying top-quality competition-capable air or CO2 guns nowadays.

[9.3X62AL]

My 25 caliber RWS M-52 side-lever will equal or surpass the accuracy at 25 yards of every centerfire with cast that I have. Once the breeze picks up, though, FORGET IT. 27 grain pellets at 780 FPS will DO IN crows decisively at backyard ranges, for sure.

[45 2.1]

10 meters is a VERY short distance. While they are portrayed as more accurate (how much more is problematical), they don't do anything that a 22 won't do better, noise and cost considerations aside. They also fall apart in anything close to being called a wind. I guess they are a good idea when your situation doesn't allow a normal FIREARM to be used. You can achieve extreme accuracy from 22 with either premium ammo or the use of swaging dies specifically built to bump up 22 rimfires. Anybody else do this?

[jethrow strait]

Didn't realize airguns were one of your varied talents. I could sure use a little help in that area right now. Just bought my first decent one, probably the wrong caliber, etc, but the price was right(a third of retail)and some consignment money was burnin a hole in my pocket. Would appreciate your thoughts on it as both a target practice and 5-10yd cottontail gun.

It's a Beeman/Weihrauch HW45 in .22 caliber. Dang thing even takes 1911 grips. Was thinking it would make a fine "garage gun" for times when I couldn't get to the range or drive a mile or two out into the desert---like yesterday when it hit 107 or when I get the urge in the middle of the night(funny how middle of the night urges have changed as the years roll on). Up to this point my only air pistol has been awful plastic Crossman c02 gun.

By the way, ever hear of an airgun pellet boolit mould????????

jethrow

[jethrow strait]

I for one am profoundly grateful to you for not posting when you don't have anything to say; I thought you had completely lost that art since becoming a 'Super Moderator'. Keep them wonerful "burrito blasts" and clinical reports comin, and jus leave the bs to the specialists. Regards, jethrow

[kenjuudo]

An on going 20 year competition between my son and daughter has given me the opinion that Winchester Power Points work very well for the money. Not to say that some of the match ammo wouldn't group better in a particular rifle, but on the average it works well in most guns, from tricked out 10-22s, cheap bolt actions to serious bench guns.

It is very humbleing to see what young eyes and ten to twelve hours of practice weekly can do.

jim

[carpetman]

Jethrow Strait---My experience with air gun pistols close to zero. Been known to shoot air rifles a bit. You ask is .22 wrong cal. I prefer the .177 over .22,but the 5mm 20 cal to me is the best of both worlds between those two. You ask about a pellet mold. There was a group buy for a .177 that would be heavy. The project got rushed somehow and the bullet tumbled. Someone in Mexico reported good results by shooting them backwards. I tried a couple of shots that way and found penetration to be lacking big time. One of the desired things from this heavy pellet was counter to my wants. It was suppossed to carry further. I use air guns for mostly sparrow control in my backyard and if I had a pellet with a parachute at 25 yards would suit my needs better. I don't do much paper shooting with them except when setting up my scope,but minute of sparrow is pretty good. I have an RWS with a Leupold scope and a couple of Sheridans with peep sight. I do about as well with the peeps as I do the scope. There are some dyed in wool air gun fans that shoot groups ALMOST good enough to mention in same paragraph as Starmetal. Well ok ALMOST ALMOST. They are plenty ample for rattlesnakes and fairly easy to hit one in the head at that range.

[BruceB]

Now, .45-2.1, pard;

Saying that the accurate airguns are useless compared to a .22 is like saying that a .222 is useless because it's not a .30-06.

The competition airguns are specifically built to fulfill a very narrow purpose, and they do it admirably. Specialization is the enemy of wide utility, but within the tight confines of the specific use, the specialized devices are wonderful. Hydroplane boats, slingshot dragsters, racing airplanes.... the dedicated designs will WHIP any "all-round" contender every time. The top-notch match airguns are every bit as specialized, and are truly wonderful shooting devices. They're also MORE difficult to shoot than a .22 firearm, because of the lower velocity which absolutely requires greater concentration on shot execution. Fail to follow-through with an airgun, and there will be VERY poor results on paper. For this reason, many very-accomplished target shooters who do not compete in airgun matches will do a lot of practice with the airgun because of the difficulties they impose.l

Jethrow, I'm not really "up" on all the airguns out there, having shot my last airgun match about 15 years back. I tried a number of truly world-class guns, including such famous marques as Hammerli, Walther, and others, including our own Feinwerkbaus. The Weirauch guns are one make I never did encounter. For non-match use, like backyard plinking and "hunting", I'd sure give some of those pointed pellets a good try-out due to their increased ranging ability and higher ballistic co-efficients. I think most of the guns up in the price range of, say, $200 or more, should give pretty decent service. The Beeman company has specialized in mrketing imported airguns of many makes for years, and apparently do just fine at the game.

[Scrounger]

I thought Beeman sold RWS guns with "Beeman" stamped on them instead of "RWS". Goes to show you how much I know about it... I also thought "Weirauch" was same as RWS, too. I have an RWS Model 48 but never use it.

[45 2.1]

Bruce-
I see your point. That extremely small window of usefulness is what stops me from really trying one. As you said: It's not difficult to spend a couple of thousand bucks if one is buying top-quality competition-capable air or CO2 guns nowadays.
For that money I could build a VERY NICE single shot cast bullet target/varmint/hunting rifle that I could breech seat bullets in or use fixed ammo. I believe you see the utility in that also. These rifles using breech seated bullets are more accurate than most things are. Go to a cast bullet match and watch the single shot guys just play and shoot under 1/2" groups with breech seated bullets. That in my opinion is allot more fun than an air rifle.

[BruceB]

45-2.1, sir;

I agree entirely. When the trigger breaks, I want fire, smoke and noise! The one reason we got into high-grade airguns was because we were campaigning heavily in NRA Bullseye and International Pistol events, competing (more or less!) on the national level in Canada. The air pistols allowed very useful at-home practice, and also we fired the formal Air Pistol event at our Nationals, since we were already on the scene of the championships for at least a week, and thousands of miles from home.

We had a surplus of very fast and sneaky roosters here at Ragged Ass Ranch, and no hope of ever catching them. With neighbors within 100 yards, I bought some CCI CB Caps, and tried them in a 24"-barreled Anschutz sporter. I swear, I could hear the firing pin strike the case, and at 25 yards my first trial shot centered the tiny black diamond in the middle of a 2" fluorescent Targ-Dot. It also made reliable headshots on roosters at that range. Now, THAT was a practical "reduced load" for my .22, and more fun than any airgun in creation.

BTW, Jethro, on a couple of occasions we fired the Air Pistol match in such hot conditions that the pistols became unreliable, giving very irregular velocities. At the Canada Summer Games in Regina SK one summer, it got to the point that the organizers provided each shooter with a BIG bowl of ice to rest the gun on between shots! Between the sweat and the ice water, it was a regular 'beech' trying to get a good shooting grip, believe me. It was likely up around 120 degrees or more, firing inside a clear-plastic-sheathed quonset sort of structure due to the problems which wind creates for the airgun pellets. This was in mid-summer under a hot Saskatchewan prairie sun. I wasn't alone in keeping a wet towel in that ice bowl for cooling ME.

[45 2.1]

Bruce-
Yep, for quite a few things, 22's are the cats meowwww! I'm sure that Carpetman could tell us about some cat-astrophes there. I like 22's allot, but seldom shoot them much. To much fun shooting long range with slow cast bullets.