Reloading a fired primer

[Jim]

There have been discussions in the past about reloading fired primers. Some have suggested using roll caps made for children's cap guns and some have suggested using the white tips of 'strike anywhere' kitchen matches. I conducted my own testing on both methods and found the caps to be far superior to the match tips.

I developed a procedure for recharging fired primers. The procedure is easy and can be accomplished with innocuous materials that are easily obtained. The procedure successfully produces a primer that will ignite modern smokeless powders, especially the faster types that are typical to handgun cartridges.

TOOLS REQUIRED:

Electric drill
3" section of steel rod at least .200" diameter
Fine cut machinist's file
Ice pick or facsimile
Small anvil or facsimile
Small hammer

With an ice pick or finely pointed tool, carefully remove the anvil from the inside of the primer cup.
http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100025-e1324910658970.jpg

Keep the anvil! The primer cup is useless without it.
http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p101000310-e1324910796615.jpg

A punch must be made to very closely fit the inside of the primer cup. If you intend to recharge large and small primers, you will need two different sizes.

Chuck the steel rod in the electric drill. If you have a vise, gently clamp the drill in the vise. If not, you may need someone to hold the drill steady for you. If you are working alone with the drill in a vise, lock or tie down the trigger on the drill. With the file, carefully square off the end of the rod to flat. Then begin to turn the diameter of the rod by applying the file to the rod as it is spinning in the drill. This cut can be straight or a long taper. Be very careful to leave the end of the rod squared. A rounded end will not work.

Check the diameter of your cut as you go. It is important that the end of the rod just barely fit in the primer cup. Once your punch is done, you're ready as there are no other parts to make.

Place the primer cup, open end up, on your work anvil. Any item of thick steel can be used as a make shift anvil. I used a female threaded ball hitch on my work bench. Insert the machined end of the punch in the primer cup and strike it ONE TIME with the hammer. Usually, one strike is enough.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100068-e1324910908633.jpg

The object is to flatten the dimple caused by the firing pin in the previous firing.
http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100082-e1324910999395.jpg

Open your box of roll caps and remove one roll from the bundle. Tear off a few caps from the roll. It's much easier to work with a short section than the entire roll.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100111-e1324911392687.jpg

Place the button of the cap over the cup of the primer. It is critical that the cap button be centered over the primer cup. VERY GENTLY push down on the punch to cut the button out into the primer cup.
http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p1010013-e1324911486620.jpg

Repeat this step. It is neccessary to have two cap buttons to get enough flash to make the powder ignite.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p1010014-e1324911575808.jpg

Carefully replace the anvil back in the primer cup, concave side up, as you found it. If the anvil will not fully seat in the cup, it will when you seat the primer in the cartridge case.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p1010017-e1324911656411.jpg

When you seat the recharged primer, do so GENTLY! The compound in the caps is sensitve and can be ignited with a very light strike. If you 'bump' the primer into the case, it is very likely that the cap buttons will 'pop'.

[elk hunter]

Jim,

Boy does that bring back memories. When I was a little younger, like fifty some years ago, I used to do the same thing, using both caps and match heads, as primers were the hard thing for us kids to get as we didn't have any hard cash most of the time. I loaded and fired quite a few rounds of 32 S&W that way using shotshell powder and 00 buck taken from old shotshells.

[35remington]

Given how a cap fired toy gun would rust terribly in a few days, it might be advisable to get the barrel and chamber of a gun fired with cap gun primers the hot water and soap treatment for cleaning rather than a nitro solvent.

[geargnasher]

Good writeup and pics, Jim!

One thing I remember from a somewhat recent thread here was someone did some informal strike testing of reloaded primers using match head tips and toy caps, and drew some interesting conclusions about sensitivity. The upshot was that both types of reloaded primers are MUCH more sensitive than factory primers, and that extreme caution should be used in handling, and that multiple rounds should never be used in magazine guns or revolvers due to the possibility of chain discharge from the recoil impulse or other source of normal handling shock.

Gear

[Jim]

Good writeup and pics, Jim!

One thing I remember from a somewhat recent thread here was someone did some informal strike testing of reloaded primers using match head tips and toy caps, and drew some interesting conclusions about sensitivity. The upshot was that both types of reloaded primers are MUCH more sensitive than factory primers, and that extreme caution should be used in handling, and that multiple rounds should never be used in magazine guns or revolvers due to the possibility of chain discharge from the recoil impulse or other source of normal handling shock.

Gear

Excellent point, Gear. Thanks for bringing that up!

I have submitted the thread for 'sticky' status and hope it will be moved to that section.

[Dframe]

Thanks for the informative write up. I've never attempted to recycle old primers but that seems to be a viable plan.

[perotter]

Thanks for the thread. The only thing in reloading I find more interesting than DIY primers is DIY smokeless powder.

If they make it a "sticky" and it's ok with the "powers that be" I'll post some DIY mixes I've tested somewhat that are the same as some of the old commercial mixes. These are of the corrosive type.

Also, from time to time I could post the results of pressure testing/fps testing of DIY vs factory. And some simple non-corrosive mixes that I can't currently test. And maybe some non-corrosive mixes that I can test that aren't of a commercial value or the patent has expired.

IMO, if one is going to do much of this they should make a primer plate. Basically just a 0.1 inch thick piece of metal with a hole drilled into the that is about 0.001 larger in diameter than the cup.

[perotter]

FWIW and I got this from another forum member. When using some brands of toy caps, you may have better result by adding a little power(BP for example) to the cup when using a hard to ignite powder(etc).

[Bulltipper]

Nice to know! Good show with the pic's and instructions!!

[Jim]

Thanks for the compliments, fellas.

[uscra112]

Where the heck can you buy roll caps these days ? I haven't seen 'em in many, many years.

[crawfobj]

Where the heck can you buy roll caps these days ? I haven't seen 'em in many, many years.

That's what I was thinking...

We used to take whole boxes of them and smash them with a bowling ball size rock. They made quite a boom, and would often catch fire!

[Bwana]

Worked this out myself many years ago. A few differences are that I cut the caps out with scissors, I too use two caps. I also take the anvil and flatten it between two flat surfaces with a controlled distance between them to get a accurate and repeatable anvil leg diameter. This make the anvil a press fit when placed back into the cup, again using two set distance flat surfaces, fillthe cup,with anvil already replaced, with firecracker powder. To prevent the powder from coming out of the cup into the case I use a paper hole punch to cut out discs from bread bags. These discs are then placed in the bottom of the primer pocket and the assembled primer is seated. I have not found that reloaded primers are any more sensitive than regular primers.
They are corrosive and should be treated as such when cleaning the gun. I only fired them in my stainless 44mags after seeing what they did to my blued 357 BH.

[uscra112]

That's what I was thinking...

We used to take whole boxes of them and smash them with a bowling ball size rock. They made quite a boom, and would often catch fire!

This nagged me for a while, so late last night I did an online search for "roll caps" and found several sources. Glory be !

Now it is possible for front-loader fans to make the "everlasting percussion cap". Or maybe somebody can start building new Maynard Tape Primer locks, which is after all where we got roll caps from in the first place.

[Jim]

Roll caps have been on the shelves of stores that sell toys since my Daddy was buyin' 'em for me in the fifties.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jim: This is right down the Survivalist's alley... And I could see using matchheads that are probably easier to find than caps.

I have some questions?

What do the primers have in them in the first place?

Is there a formula that could be made at home with readily available chemicals?

It seems like if you are going to go to all the trouble of reloading primers that making the priming compound wouldn't be that much more work, unless the mixture is too complicated or required some super duper process to complete.

A nice new modern Black Powder Rifle like a TC Encore in Stainless would be at the top of my list. You can make black powder, and Boolits, but the caps would be more of a challenge, and there aren't any Flintlock TC Encores. So reloading the caps would be nice to be able to do.

I always look at what we would do if we were thrown into an apocalyptic situation. Weapons would always be on the top of the list as needed items, and a Black powder rifle would be the easiest to keep running over the long haul. (100+ years) or until you got the infrastructure to make new guns and ammo up and running. If you are thrown into a place where there are resources but no technology, then being able to make the components easily is key.

I have enough ammo to last me for the rest of my life unless we get into a shootin war, however if we were able to fold time back into the past like on the "Terra Nova" show on Fox and get cut off from the future then the knowledge to make something out of nothing would come in handy. MIght be a good idea to take up archery as will.

Randy

[Lee]

As a kid, used to take a sewing needle, a roll of caps, and carefully thread them back and forth, thru the needle. Then a wrap of friction tape ('member that??) around the caps. Pull the needle out slow and careful. Take a piece of string, dried after being wet with the powder dregs from the caps. place on the end, then another wrap of friction tape around the ends.
Voila! Poor kids firecracker. Of course some times the needle set off the whole roll while doing this (ouch) and of course sometimes the "fuse" burnt a little too quick. (ouch) :twisted:

[Rangefinder]

I did pretty much this same thing to shoot a cap lock pistol when I was a kid except what I found was that instead of using two or three caps in the cup I used a couple flakes of powder from a shotgun shell under the cap--it gave reliable ignition on FFg and would probably do really well on any pistol powder. Might have to revisit that experiment.

[Jim]

Jim: This is right down the Survivalist's alley... And I could see using matchheads that are probably easier to find than caps.

Actually, I think that has swapped ends. I live in Floyd, VA, a small town in the mountains. The local hardware store is the only business in the entire county that carries the old fashioned 'strike anywhere' matches. Roll caps are on the shelf in the toy section of Wally World.

I have some questions?

What do the primers have in them in the first place?

I don't know, but I do know it's classified as a high explosive.

Is there a formula that could be made at home with readily available chemicals?

Yeah, but I ain't touchin' that with a ten foot fiberglass pole.

It seems like if you are going to go to all the trouble of reloading primers that making the priming compound wouldn't be that much more work, unless the mixture is too complicated or required some super duper process to complete.

Making the compound is not difficult, it's as dangerous as playin' with nitro.

A nice new modern Black Powder Rifle like a TC Encore in Stainless would be at the top of my list. You can make black powder, and Boolits, but the caps would be more of a challenge, and there aren't any Flintlock TC Encores. So reloading the caps would be nice to be able to do.

I always look at what we would do if we were thrown into an apocalyptic situation. Weapons would always be on the top of the list as needed items, and a Black powder rifle would be the easiest to keep running over the long haul. (100+ years) or until you got the infrastructure to make new guns and ammo up and running. If you are thrown into a place where there are resources but no technology, then being able to make the components easily is key.

I have enough ammo to last me for the rest of my life unless we get into a shootin war, however if we were able to fold time back into the past like on the "Terra Nova" show on Fox and get cut off from the future then the knowledge to make something out of nothing would come in handy. MIght be a good idea to take up archery as will.

Randy

Your last two paragraphs are pretty much 'SHTF' scenario oriented. I did not write the article toward that. I wrote it simply because someone might be interested in the procedure.

[Mooseman]

Primers contain Lead styphnate which is very simple to make IF you can find the 2 main chemicals needed which are Lead oxide and Styphnic Acid and then methanol is used in the process. This is a DANGEROUS explosive and highly sensitive so it isnt for someone with no experience to work with.
Here is a link...http://www.ehow.com/how_12134344_make-boxer-primer.html

[Milsurp Junkie]

If I am not mistaken, the mixture in toy caps is Armstrong's mixture. It is a mixture of potassium chlorate and red phosphorus. Nasty stuff.

[Jim]

This is what I use. They come in a blister pak of four boxes. I found them at Wal-Mart in the toys section.

http://floydpics.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/p10100047-e1325038103452.jpg

If you can't find them, HERE (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000O5FBUU/ref=dp_olp_new/185-1860246-7676053?ie=UTF8&condition=new) is a link to a site where you can order them.

[rsrocket1]

Potassium chlorate is what they used in corrosive primers. It turns into potassium chloride which is the water attracting salt that corrodes the barrel. A nice wash down of water and a drying of your gun gets rid of it until you bring your gun home for a proper cleaning.

[perotter]

Primers contain Lead styphnate which is very simple to make IF you can find the 2 main chemicals needed which are Lead oxide and Styphnic Acid and then methanol is used in the process. This is a DANGEROUS explosive and highly sensitive so it isnt for someone with no experience to work with.
Here is a link...http://www.ehow.com/how_12134344_make-boxer-primer.html

Basically you have to make the styphnic acid. For that you need resorcinol, sulfuric acid, nitric acid & an adulterant(normally sodium nitrite).

To make the TNR into lead styphnate you need need sodium hydroxide, lead nitrate and acetic acid.

See the NRA book "Ammunition Making" by George Frost for the details. The lead styphante is normally less than 40% of the primer mix.

[perotter]

For a proven corrosive mix, FA-42 is what the US military used before FA-70 & was the original 30/06 primer. I think it was Hatcher that said if was really a great primer. It is:

Potassium chlorate 47.20%
Antimony Sulfide 30.83%
Sulfur 21.97%

There would be a binder added to this. I've loaded this as a dry mix w/o binder and it worked well. I left some exposed for 9 months in the basement & they all fire the round, but I've not done proper testing of them.

Ron Browns PC 50% - sulfur 30% - glass 20% mix seemed to work. I'd have to look at my notes to see how long it lasted. He stated a month, but I know it was longer when I tested it.

[perotter]

Toy caps are a mix of potassium chlorate, red phosphorus and antimony sulfide. Armstrong's mixture doesn't have the antimony sulfide in it. Armstrongs mixture will explode by just touching it.

For those who can get or have red phosphorus or just interested - a mix of that and barium nitrate(these 2 only) is what the US Army adapted for a short while as a non-corrosive right after WW2. These primers had a short life in storage.

FWIW, the new "green" P4 primer that the DOD is currently testing is based on plastic coated red phosphorus and potassium nitrate. Of course there is the normal additives(aluminum, TNT, etc). The last test I read said that the shelf live was good, the temp range good, a slight ignition delay & a small increase in misfires compared to current mil spec.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jim: thanks for the feed back, I knew nothing about the chemsitry of priming compound and that's why I asked.

I had to hunt for strike anywhere matches as well. My local Tru-Value hardware store has them but that''s the only place I've found. Still only $1.29 a box though. Did find out these are a standard Tru-Value warehouse item, so any TV hardware store should have them.

I tried taking a spent primer apart yesterday and putting it back together. You have to smack the cup pretty good to get it to flatten out with one hit. I toonced it a few times and had to progressively hit harder, with a little practice it can be done in one shot.

Also my Anvil did not want to stay in place,,, so I flattened it out just a little, then pressed it back in to the cup where it stayed.

Looking for some caps.

Thanks for the write up,and the reply, it may come in handy someday.

Randy

[Jim]

Mr. Buchanan, see the link at the bottom of post number 22 for a source for the caps.

I'm paying $1.99 at the local hardware store for my 'strike anywhere's. The lady said they can only get them from the salesman when he drops by. The distributor charges HAZ-MAT to ship them and it makes them cost prohibitive. I still buy 'em and stay stocked up on 'em.

[Bwana]

"Also my Anvil did not want to stay in place,,, so I flattened it out just a little, then pressed it back in to the cup where it stayed"
As I stated in my post below.


Worked this out myself many years ago. A few differences are that I cut the caps out with scissors, I too use two caps. I also take the anvil and flatten it between two flat surfaces with a controlled distance between them to get a accurate and repeatable anvil leg diameter. This make the anvil a press fit when placed back into the cup, again using two set distance flat surfaces, fillthe cup,with anvil already replaced, with firecracker powder. To prevent the powder from coming out of the cup into the case I use a paper hole punch to cut out discs from bread bags. These discs are then placed in the bottom of the primer pocket and the assembled primer is seated. I have not found that reloaded primers are any more sensitive than regular primers.
They are corrosive and should be treated as such when cleaning the gun. I only fired them in my stainless 44mags after seeing what they did to my blued 357 BH.
I wanted to add I use two caps in the LP primers and one cap in the SP primers with firecracker powder added to each type and of course the plastic discs in each. I don't remember what I used to cut the SP plastic discs.

[Milsurp Junkie]

I am assuming a binder such as dextin would be used in this:
Potassium chlorate 47.20%
Antimony Sulfide 30.83%
Sulfur 21.97%

[WILCO]

I still buy 'em and stay stocked up on 'em.

Same here Jim. I see them, I buy them. Can never have too many strike anywhere matches. :razz:

[Sonnypie]

I always look at what we would do if we were thrown into an apocalyptic situation. Weapons would always be on the top of the list as needed items, and a Black powder rifle would be the easiest to keep running over the long haul. (100+ years) or until you got the infrastructure to make new guns and ammo up and running. If you are thrown into a place where there are resources but no technology, then being able to make the components easily is key.

I have enough ammo to last me for the rest of my life unless we get into a shootin war, however if we were able to fold time back into the past like on the "Terra Nova" show on Fox and get cut off from the future then the knowledge to make something out of nothing would come in handy. MIght be a good idea to take up archery as will.

Randy

Until the powers that be get an infrared read on you when you decided to take a nature call, and they send a rocket into your hovel.
Game over.
Have we not learned anything watching predator drone targeting?
It isn't black helicopters anymore, Vern.
My arms are for the hope I can die fighting. And that's why I don't have empty brass sitting around.
"Uh, could you wait while I load up some ammo to shoot at you with?" "No?"
I expect somebody will be able to use some of what I leave behind. If it isn't burned or blown up.
Are you prepared to eat your liberal unarmed neighbors? They taste like pork. :twisted:

Then again, a big meteorite might just take care of the whole mess.

I want to die peacefully in my sleep.
Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in my car. :popcorn:

[DODGEM250]

I love the thread. I don't know if the effort is worth the trouble in the long run. I pay $4.99 / 100 209 primers, so, reloading them seems a bit troublesome to me, BUT, I have a bunch of spent primers from reloading shotshells if you need me to save them for you.

[BossHoss]

Great info, and another cool "survivalist" work around.

I love this site.

The sensitivity of the homemade caps are what I will be testing. The "equ-distant anvil leg" reset device is of utmost importance in this step, I am assuming.

And I will test as such.

I am not going to reload 1000 primers....but the knowledge of HOW, and having a "kit" , method and recipe , is priceless. IMO.

Thanks again , Cast Boolits for bringing all the best people in our hobby together.

[Jim]

..... I have a bunch of spent primers from reloading shotshells if you need me to save them for you.

Shotshell (209) primers are a horse of an entirely different color. The primers I experimented with are those used in metallic cases.

Boss,
When I seated the recharged primer, I simply layed the anvil in the cup of the primer and gently seated it. The anvil kinda' 'self aligned' and centered up in the primer pocket of the case.

I tested with Hodgdon's Triple Seven, Bullseye, Unique and IMR 4895. The two caps produced enough flash to ignite all of them.

Truthfully, I did not expect the 4895 to light, but it did. I will tell you, though, I only fired one round of 4895. Irish luck? I tested the other powders two or three times each.

With the 777, I used a 100% C/D charge in a .45 Colt under a 230 gr. boolit.

With the Bullseye and Unique tests, I used a 158 gr. boolit in a .38 Spl. case. I set the charge against the flash hole with a punched piece of sheet dacron. I was afraid the cap flash might not make it into the case far enough to light the powder.

Here's something I thought of , but did not test:
How could I make a slow IMR powder light if the caps won't light it? At the moment, the only solution I can come up with is to place a small 'igniter' charge of something like 777 or Bullseye under the main charge. Not enough to spike pressures, but just enough to produce a good flash to kick off the main charge.

This would, however, require either a 100% case density or a filler of some description to keep the 'starter' charge from moving and dislocating and/or migrating into the main charge. That would, I believe, require some special planning. You can't just go crowding any ol' IMR powder. Might get a little more bang for your buck than you bargained for!:holysheep

Any suggestions? Anybody wanna do a little testing?

[perotter]

I am assuming a binder such as dextin would be used in this:
Potassium chlorate 47.20%
Antimony Sulfide 30.83%
Sulfur 21.97%

Yes. The one problem with use that one is that it takes a greater % of it than other binders and that lessens the ability of the primer to ignite the powder. Of course the advantage is you can make it yourself or buy it very cheaply.

[perotter]

FWIW, one thing to keep in mind when reloading primers is that the residue in once-fired commercial primer contains a high % of lead oxide. IMO, one should run them thru a ultra sonic cleaner, etc before doing a very large number. And take more caution than one would when casting bullets.

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi
I have done this with berdan rifle primers. The toy pistol cap idea is the better way to go.I have also tried the strike anywhere matches and they were very weak.Super Bang caps I found at the Dollar General 2000 for $2. You have to be selective and only use the bigger dots. I punched them out with a paper punch. Be prepaired for some surprises when seating.You will set some off. They seem to be ok after seating though. I used these in shooting some cast boolit loads in a 8mm mauser with medium fast powders. Probably a 8 out of 10 success rate ,some hangfires too. The bolt action is about the easiest to clean for this. Usually just the barrel and wipe the bolt face.
I have made caps for my muzzleloaders too. Four super bang caps per cup works the best. A rifle with a good open flame path to the powder works the best. A nipple with a larger than usual hole drilled helps . As does a Strong hammer hit.
Toy pistol caps or match heads you need to have a VERY complete cleaning routine. The rust is tough to stop when using these caps. A final soakdown with Ballistol or Hoppies will suffice. Not much else will stop it.
Have fun guys and be safe
n.h.schmidt

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jim: At one time it was standard practice to load light charges of 4831 with 2 gr of Unique under it for better ignition and no hang fires with CAst boolits.

I read that in a Venturino article on loading cast for the .30-06. Aparently he got the load from the NRA magazine back in the 60's.

So if this is what it takes to get reliable ignition with your reloaded primers then so be it. It's been done before so it should work now too.

After I saw the chemicals used to make priming compound and saw they were all corrosive, I deduced that caps are the way to go.

I think by flattening the anvils just a bit and pressing them into the cup with a small arbor press,,,very slowly,,, you would cut way down on the misfires while loading.

This is one more thing to add to our "mental toolbox" and you never know when it might come in handy.

Once again, Thanks to everyone for the knowledge.

Randy

[Jim]

Mr. Buchanan, you bring up some good points.
Jim: At one time it was standard practice to load light charges of 4831 with 2 gr of Unique under it for better ignition and no hang fires with CAst boolits.

What concerns me about this is the kicker becoming 'blended', as it were, into the main charge. Seems to me that something would have to locate the main charge to prevent it from moving around.

After I saw the chemicals used to make priming compound and saw they were all corrosive, I deduced that caps are the way to go.

I have to agree. Furthermore, I'm a bit hesitant to go mixing chemicals that might launch me through the roof of my shed.

I think by flattening the anvils just a bit and pressing them into the cup with a small arbor press,,,very slowly,,, you would cut way down on the misfires while loading.

That's a good point. Only thing I can respond to immediately is, one would have to be very careful in doing so. I'm thinking if the anvil legs were spread too far out, they might cause a problem with the anvil being fitted back into the cup.

This is one more thing to add to our "mental toolbox" and you never know when it might come in handy.

Once again, Thanks to everyone for the knowledge.

Randy

This is an interesting discussion, mostly acedemic at this stage and certainly way outside the box. I certainly don't have my thumb down on it. Like you, I appreciate all the feedback. Gran'daddy said two heads are better than one even if one IS empty!

[BossHoss]

Once the exact "crush" height of the re-adjusted anvil is determined, the crush device can be adjusted as such.

When I set out to do this, I will test in many ways...not the least of which would be how sensitive they are , with many handling tests of dummy shells .

Just for my own experience...YMMV.

[perotter]

Any suggestions? Anybody wanna do a little testing?

A toy cap has less than 1/2 of the powder needed for reliable use in small pistol/rifle boxer primers. A large rifle primer should have about 0.6 grains of powder in them. As it shows in the picture a Super Bang cap has less then 0.2 grains.

The proper way to solve this & still use a toy cap is to add a booster charge(BP if nothing else) in the primer. This has been tested many times & by some forum members. Winchester also patented a similar method years ago.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jim: Plenty of empty heads around, no need to look very far.

As far as the mixing of powder goes, I think the idea was to not shake the loaded cartridges up. I know the load was just about a full case of powder, and then they stuffed dacron in to take up the slack.

I personally don't like the idea of duplex loads for exactly the same reason, but in a pinch it's good to know how to do it, and why you'd need to.

Randy

[firefly1957]

W W Greeners book has a formula for priming mixture it is potassium chlorate, charcoal,and sulfur the potassium chlorate is wetted first then mixed and gum arabic added for a binder. this would be placed wet then dried for a primer. Many roll caps use this formula along with the other formula containing red phosphorous. There are non corrosive compounds that can be used however I am not sure on how sensitive they are one to look into would be Barium Chlorate I have heard of silver fulminate being used also but never had a reason to research it.

[firefly1957]

Scrap silver fulminate it sounds like recoil may set off unchambered rounds in a repeating firearm!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_fulminate

[NSP64]

after reading the posts I believe that a muzzleloader caplock would be a way to go to reload the hat style caps. As everyone knows ML's need a good cleaning after shooting anyhow.

[perotter]

W W Greeners book has a formula for priming mixture it is potassium chlorate, charcoal,and sulfur the potassium chlorate is wetted first then mixed and gum arabic added for a binder. this would be placed wet then dried for a primer. Many roll caps use this formula along with the other formula containing red phosphorous. There are non corrosive compounds that can be used however I am not sure on how sensitive they are one to look into would be Barium Chlorate I have heard of silver fulminate being used also but never had a reason to research it.

Loading wet is a much safer way to do it and, IMO, you get a more reliable primer.

But, you do need more equipment. When you load dry you can just fill the cup and when you compress it, you have cup that is 1/2 full(just right). When you load wet you have to use some sort of measuring device. FWIW, for wet I use a plate with a the desired thickness and the diameter hole.

If you use barium chlorate, you still have a corrosive primer. While we(the US) copied the Germans for non-corrosive primers, the French and to a certain extent the Japanese went a different way. They use lead azide.

While, lead azide is about the easiest one for someone in the US to obtain, as the need sodium azide is use in many of the air bags in our cars. It does have a couple of disadvantages. One being that it is somewhat unpredictable when it explodes & years ago when they using it in the US they would end up with blown primer & worse. I don't know how the French and Japanese solved that problem. Also, sodium azide is very poisonous and the proper method of handling it should be done. FWIW, on a different forum I'm a member of one of the members did poison himself with it & was reported to have died because of that.

DDNP, diazo-dinitrophenol, was used during WW2 by Western & Winchester for military primers(M1 carbine if memory serves) reasonably successfully. This about the easiest one for someone to make. See manual TM 31-210 for the details. Also, many of the "green" primers that have been available of the last several years use this instead of lead styphnate.

Lead-nitro- hypophosphite works well in rimfire and Berdan primers. But in a boxer primer there isn't enough room for a large enough charge that reliably ignites the powder. It is very safe to use, because it doesn't exist until the primer has dried out. It is formed only when the charge is in the primer. See "Ammunition Making" by G. Frost and Imperials patents. The "difficult" chemical needed to make it is available from Midway(the one us reloader know) for use in plating. MSDS's are ones friend.

Sulfur nitride should work, but I don't know of it ever being tried by the industry. And I haven't gotten around to trying it. The needed chemicals are available in any store and the equipment is simple. DIY if you need to.

There are also several others.

[kodiak1]

Man I remember my Dad doing this and me watching him 50 plus years ago!
He was doing it because he claimed we couldn't afford to waste money.
I remember him cutting the white part off the matches with a razor blade to do that.
His punch was a cut off nail!!!!!!!!
Crude but effective.

If one had to do it to survive one could.
Great read
Ken.

[Arnie]

If you wanted a good hot primer you could dribble 4f Black powder into the primer after replacing the caps and the anvil till it was full ,then seat it in the case with a piece of typing paper over the pocket hole .The primer will punch through the paper and make a sealed off flash hole that the primer pop would flash through . Arnie

[ReloaderEd]

Hang fires can be dangerous using the home made primers. However, obviously if one were in the position that either make them or don't have ammo I can see the reason for doing this. I keep coming up with a comment my boss said once in an email. Someone has too much time on their hands.
I rotate my stock of primers, usually 500 of each type I use so usually have fresh ones on hand . Why? I guess the old saying about keepping ones powder dry goes along with the reason. Be Safe

[41mag]

I have enjoyed reading through this and it sure brings back memories of the stories my pop used to tell me of when he was growing up through the end of the depression and the rationing during WW2. HE was from a large family of 10 kids, and his pop was killed when they were pretty young. Times were tough and they did what needed to be done to put food on the table. As such they made their own BP and used what ever was available and would fit down the muzzle of the old shotgun they had for hunting or getting pelts to sell when they had the chance. Some of his stories sure did put quite a few ideas in my head, and a few of those ideas sure resulted in a warmed up bottom end. It DID always make me wonder why it was alright that he did these things, but so wrong when I did them. His motto was as always, do as I say not as I do, or did, or might. Any one of these always seemed to fit when I got caught. LOL

Growing up we always loaded our own ammo, just a part of pop's history made this the thing to do. As such we were always brought back to the tough times when we would sit down and start on a batch of loads. As such I was interested at a young age in all things that went boom as well as the space program which was in full swing. Back in my pre and early teens, I built plenty of model rockets. As such I eventually as most inquisitive kids do, investigated how the motors worked. During this time I had also acquired both a 45 caliber BP cannon and a Hawkins rifle kit which I had built, and had both fff and ff BP on hand. (Some of pop's old stories came to to mind and that's when it got interesting.) Being that the solid propellant pills in the rocket motors looked pretty close to the BP I used it was only a matter of time before I started to look into making my own reloads for them as well.

What I ended up doing was to take a small amount of the FFF BP, and in a glass bowl I slowly wet it down with distilled water, slowly mashing it up really well until it was of a thin pasty consistency. ( In doing this, I couldn't help but remember my pop blowing up my grandma's rabbit hutch while making up a batch of powder for their shotgun.) Anyway, once here it was easily poured into a mold of which I had made from pvc pipe, where it could be tightly compressed from either end using a c-clamp with a small wooden dowels inserted in each end. This formed the muddy mix into a solid pill just the right diameter to fit back into the used motor casing, and after drying for a couple of days, was ready to load into the used motor casing. As to be expected there were a few issues with this method, but it only took a few tests to figure out that by adding in a bit of very fine sawdust, or corn starch to the mix we could somewhat effectively slow the burn rate to allow us to at least launch our rockets in a pinch. We also got tired of waiting several days for the pills to dry and started to use rubbing alcohol as the wetting agent. This we found to be much faster and only took around 24hrs of drying verses the couple of days it sometimes took for the water mix.

This all said, and to relate it to the primer thread, if one was needing to add a charge to the primers, this might be a very easily done thing using a similar method as above. If rubbing alcohol is used instead of water, to mix the BP, it evaporates very quickly. If one has access to a small syringe like used to give pets medicine with, the mix is easily squirted out in a controlled manner to what ever amount you wanted to use. It has to be noted however, that the mix will be thinner in the beginning and thicken up as it is squirted out, as the moister portion will go out first. This said it only takes one or two test to figure out at about where this occurs and could easily be regulated.

If one wanted to produce a larger quantity, they could, as described above, use a drilled plate and simply spread the mix across it. Once the mix was spread out use a second flat plate to smear it around and then clamp it to the top, which would compress the wet mix until it dried. Once dried, tap the plate to allow the pellets to drop out on a cloth. This would allow you to have the tiny pellets ready made by the batch ready to drop into the primer cups.

This would still be in the corrosive dept just as most BP is, but it would possibly allow, if needed, to have a additive that would stay in place in the cups if needed.

[DODGEM250]

Shotshell (209) primers are a horse of an entirely different color. The primers I experimented with are those used in metallic cases.


Understood. I see your direction now. I simply was not sure if you were being specific to large/small primers or primers in general.

[perotter]

If you wanted a good hot primer you could dribble 4f Black powder into the primer after replacing the caps and the anvil till it was full ,then seat it in the case with a piece of typing paper over the pocket hole .The primer will punch through the paper and make a sealed off flash hole that the primer pop would flash through . Arnie

That is a much better way then making a duplex powder load in the case.

[Jim]

If you wanted a good hot primer you could dribble 4f Black powder into the primer after replacing the caps and the anvil till it was full ,then seat it in the case with a piece of typing paper over the pocket hole .The primer will punch through the paper and make a sealed off flash hole that the primer pop would flash through . Arnie

Arnie, that's a SPLENDID idea!

Questions: How would one go about handling the open primer with the loose 'flash' powder in it without spilling it? I'm trying to visualize actually picking up the primer, set it in a priming arm and seat it without spilling the powder.

Would you charge the primer with the 'flash' powder AFTER it's placed in the priming arm?

I wonder if it would be feasible to charge the primer and place a small piece of cellophane(Scoth) tape over the primer while it's still on the bench. You suppose the hole in the shell holder would shear off the tape at the diameter of the primer?

Your idea has the ol' wheels turnin' again!

[perotter]

If one wanted to produce a larger quantity, they could, as described above, use a drilled plate and simply spread the mix across it. Once the mix was spread out use a second flat plate to smear it around and then clamp it to the top, which would compress the wet mix until it dried. Once dried, tap the plate to allow the pellets to drop out on a cloth. This would allow you to have the tiny pellets ready made by the batch ready to drop into the primer cups.



Beside safety, the problem with putting a dry pellet into the the cup is that a pellet of the size need would be crushed by the anvil. This could result there being little or no compound under the anvil.

What you do is:

Have a plate that holds the cups & a matching one for the wet compound.

Fill the compound plate much as you state.

Then immediately set the compound plate over the cup plate. And carefully push the wet pellet into the cup.

Then either replace the anvil or press the pellet. If you press the pellet it's best to have paper between the pellet and the punch. The paper is to keep any of the compound from sticking to the punch.

This is how one can do it in a safe and obtain a very repeatable result.

I like the idea of using syringe. Just one of the benefits I can see doing that way is making it safer.

The clean up afterwards is the main thing to do to stay safe.

[perotter]

I wonder if it would be feasible to charge the primer and place a small piece of cellophane(Scoth) tape over the primer while it's still on the bench. You suppose the hole in the shell holder would shear off the tape at the diameter of the primer?

Your idea has the ol' wheels turnin' again!

I bet that the tape would. I'm going to try it right now.

Edit:

It worked. The tape sheared fine. I tested the cartridge and the show a positive result. I didn't do a comparative pressure test or vel test.

For me the only down side was the extra time, but that may not apply to everyone.

[Bwana]

Hang fires can be dangerous using the home made primers. However, obviously if one were in the position that either make them or don't have ammo I can see the reason for doing this. I keep coming up with a comment my boss said once in an email. Someone has too much time on their hands.
I rotate my stock of primers, usually 500 of each type I use so usually have fresh ones on hand . Why? I guess the old saying about keepping ones powder dry goes along with the reason. Be Safe

I had to chuckle a little on that one. Five hundred of each on hand, and so they "stay fresh". I'm feeling a little "poorly" because my stash has dropped a little below 20,000. Some of the primers I'm using came from my mother-inlaw's third husband's estate. They were purchased, according to the date written on the boxes, as far back as 1974. They work just fine. There were right at 29,000 of them when I got them and they account for about 10,000 of my current inventory.

[perotter]

They were purchased, according to the date written on the boxes, as far back as 1974. They work just fine. There were right at 29,000 of them when I got them and they account for about 10,000 of my current inventory.

And if you haven't used them up by then, they should be good in 2074 or beyond.

The more I've done making them & working on new compounds, the more respect I've gained for the people who make the one's we buy.

Whether it's the chemist that invented in, the techs that tested & perfected the mix or the person who works on the production line. The do make a great product at,IMO, a reasonable price.

[Arnie]

Jim ,looks like the tape idea would work ,or just be real steady and careful setting the primer in the seater . Arnie

[Jim]

Arnie, thanks for doing the research on that.

[Arnie]

I see these plastic caps that look like percussion caps for muzzle loaders .There for the more modern cap guns .They come in rings like for a revolver and also in rows you break them off one by one .I wonder if the material in them could be removed with out crumbling .They look like there about primer size. Arnie

[burntpowder]

Do any here remember spoke guns with 71/2 shot being the boolit and match heads being the propellant? That was where my life long enjoyable passion of launching boolits began. If anyone is going to work with any explosive make sure you are well grounded! No pun intended. Cesar Chavez lost over half the people he sent to make things that go boom. I also used sissors to trim the rool caps but I think the way shown would definitely be better if mass producing. I've used strike anywhere matches as both primer and propellant.

[gandydancer]

Why could you not do this with once fired rimfire brass? I read somewhere that they found 44 rimfire brass on the field after the little big horn battle that had been hit 3 & 4 times and some reloaded 44 rimfire ammo with match heads powder & round balls in them for the 44 henry's?

[SSGOldfart]

deleted

[ReloaderEd]

I had to chuckle a little on that one. Five hundred of each on hand, and so they "stay fresh". I'm feeling a little "poorly" because my stash has dropped a little below 20,000. Some of the primers I'm using came from my mother-inlaw's third husband's estate. They were purchased, according to the date written on the boxes, as far back as 1974. They work just fine. There were right at 29,000 of them when I got them and they account for about 10,000 of my current inventory.

I realize 500 primers and "keeping them fresh" rotating stock sounds silly. However, a stock of 29000 primers in case you need them including 10,000 inheired primers almost could be concluded as hoarding stuff. I don't know about you guys but if the chips were down and your life depended upon the primers, which would you use. The newer ones for me. I am sure someone will inherit most of those 29000 primers before they are used up. Be Safe[smilie=s:

[KYCaster]

I realize 500 primers and "keeping them fresh" rotating stock sounds silly. However, a stock of 29000 primers in case you need them including 10,000 inheired primers almost could be concluded as hoarding stuff. I don't know about you guys but if the chips were down and your life depended upon the primers, which would you use. The newer ones for me. I am sure someone will inherit most of those 29000 primers before they are used up. Be Safe[smilie=s:



I'm not Bwana, but I have about 25,000 primers on the shelf right now and that won't get me through the end of this year. I'm completely out of SP Mag and very low on SP.

None of them were "inherited", I had to pay for every one of them, and except for a small amount of very old CCI I picked up at a yard sale, the oldest of them are less than three years old.

When I get below 5000 of a particular style I start getting a little antsy.

Jerry

[Bwana]

Inherited. Do you realize how silly your post is? You imply that they didn't cost me anything. Perhaps you missed the part about the MIL third husband. She likes me; but, not that much. Hoarding stuff; and your problem with people having more than you rears it's ugly head. There are people who are gun owners and shoot those guns a little bit and then there are people who are shooters that own guns and shoot them a lot. I happen to be one of the latter. I burn through at least 15,000 a year. So, let's see, that would be around two years worth if they were mostly small pistol primers, which they are not. Now that I have taken the time to educate you, please take the time to think before commenting on my posts in the future. Thank you.

[Jim]

Knock it off.

I'm just a grunt here like everybody else and I have no authority to go given' out orders. But there ain't no need or call for a 'urination competition'. If you ain't got nothin' nice to say, don't post.

[sundog]

If you shoot a lot, and a lot of different cartridges, then a working stock of, oh, let's pick a number out of the air,... hmmmm,... say 29,000,... is not very many. I buy primers by the case.
SP, SP mag, SR, SR mag, LP, LP mag, LR, LR mag, CCI #34 and #41, Benchrest LR, and a few others. So, excluding shotgun, that can easily be over 100K, and it's ONLY a working stock. No hoarding about it. Like I said, if you shoot a lot, and a lot of different stuff, it's nothing more than a working stock. Besides, when I find a primer at a really good sale price, I get a case.

[CollinLeon]

Back when we had the primer shortage a couple of years ago, I looked into what it would take to reload a primer. The chemicals seem to be available rather cheaply from the fireworks chemical supply companies. I would have to be really desperate before I would attempt working on something that small though. My old eyes are such that I even hate loading something as small as a 9mm. To compensate, the last rifle that I bought was a .45-70...

Due to the HAZMAT shipping charge, many people buy a lot larger quantities of primers and powder than they might reasonably need in the foreseeable future. My local gun shop quit handling reloading components, so I ordered some online a couple of years ago during the primer shortage. Ended up with around 40K, IIRC -- SPM and LPM. Probably should have ordered some rifle primers also. I'm currently using the pistol primers in the rifle calibers that I'm reloading. So far, so good...

[Bwana]

Jim,
Your wish is my command:

Re: A day late?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bwana
Jim,
Your post: "Knock it off.

I'm just a grunt here like everybody else and I have no authority to go given' out orders. But there ain't no need or call for a 'urination competition'. If you ain't got nothin' nice to say, don't post."
Just curious, that was posted about 24 hours late by my reckoning. In case you haven't figured out by my posts, I won't put up with people disparaging me for no good reason. If there is a good reason I'll be the first to make things right. There are far too many people who want to talk out their rearends. That is fine as long as they don't bring me into it. So, if your post was intended for me, I have given it its due and I am driving on.
Best Regards,
Bwana.

You should post that publicly.
__________________

[perotter]

The cost of chems starts at about $0.80 for 1,000 primers. If someone is going to reload primers beyond playing a little, tooling is needed.

Chinese made caps aren't very evenly spaced between the powder and can only be use with simple tooling to do one at a time or very complex tooling. But, German made caps are very evenly spaced and one can easily make tooling that matches the powder position.

The German brand is "Legends of the Wild West".

[Bwana]

On a thread related note, I was digging around in a shelf unit in the garage last week and found a primer box that contained 36 LP primers that had been "recharged" with two caps each. These have been, according to my records, sitting around since Aug 1994. At least that is the last time I did any work with them. I took one apart to ascertain how many caps it had. I then took five of them and primed 44 Mag cases and checked to see how many would fire. They all fired. So, that leaves me with 30 to play with. I'll make up some loads in the coming days and post the results here when I get them.

[Bwana]

The cost of chems starts at about $0.80 for 1,000 primers. If someone is going to reload primers beyond playing a little, tooling is needed.

Chinese made caps aren't very evenly spaced between the powder and can only be use with simple tooling to do one at a time or very complex tooling. But, German made caps are very evenly spaced and one can easily make tooling that matches the powder position.

The German brand is "Legends of the Wild West".

So where do you find this brand of caps? I bought, back in 1994, nine packages of eight boxes each (250 per box so 18,000 caps) of "American West" brand that were made in Canada. I also have a sealed bag containing a 2000 pack of Black Cat firecrackers.

[perotter]

I would have bought the "Legends of the Wild West" caps at some chain store. Kmart, Walmart, Shopko or Fleet Farm. But it could have been at the grocery store.


Edit:

I hope nobody took this as being smart *** answer. Although I didn't buy them there, I see that Walgreens sells them.

[Bwana]

Well I loaded up those two cap primers using firecracker powder to fill them before seating. I got about 4 primers per BlackCat firecracker. As I described earlier, I used .250" bread bag discs to prevent powder leakage into the case. I made two different types of loads for my 44 Mag. One used some of my 238gr Hybrid bullets and 24grs of H-110 powder(bullet length .690" seating depth .320"). In addition I loaded up three additonal cases (all were FC) with WLP primers as a control. All of these rounds fired with no delay in ignition. Velocity averaged 1200fps for the cap primers and 1265fps for the WLP loads. The other load was PMC cases and the Lee 248gr RN cast boolit. Boolit length .740" and seating depth .340" using 7.0 gr of Unique. Again a control load using WLP was also loaded. The cap primer loads this time had a slight delay in four out of ten rounds. No delay with WLP control load. Velocity was 835fps with cap loads and 870fps with WLP rounds. I suspect the delay with the Unique rounds was due to powder position. Five of each load, along with the control rounds, were ran over the cronograph and the rest fired at 25yds and resulted in three inch groups. Not too bad considering how cold it was and that there was a 20mph wind. That concludes the report.

[perotter]

Bwana,

Something you may want to try with the Unique load is to mix some smokeless power with the firecracker powder. This would give you more hot gasses and increase the pressure that the primer creates. Firecracker powder has a lot of hot particles, but is low in hot gas.

I believe the pressure you had was to low to ignite the Unique correctly. And what was happening was primer was igniting a small quantity of the Unique and when the pressure for that burning got to the proper level the rest of the Unique started igniting.

The smokeless powder in the primer should be as fine a possible.

[Bwana]

My test was primarily to see if the primers, which had been the garage, all year long for ten plus years in an unsealed primer box, would still work. Also to see the velocity differential between them and regular primers with the same load. I deliberately chose a lower pressure load for each powder in case someone tried to duplicate the test. There are some who doubt the long term viability of cap primers. I think the test put that concern to rest.

[otonel]

In the past I made primer cups and load with a mix from safety matches heads , glass powder , chalk, firecracker powder and red phosphorus from matches box strip.
That mix was reliable cheaper and good for long time storage but corrosive for the barrel.
I use safety matches because I don`t find strikeanywhere matches and using acetone and a knife,I take down the strip with red phosphorus
Most of my priming mix is 50% match head , 25% red phosphorus, 15% firecracker powder for better ignition and a little chalk for safety storage ,glass powder for rise the sensitivity
All the best

[perotter]

otonel,

Didn't you post on a different forum that you used lead peroxide for oxidizer in the mix once? On one of the science forum I think.

[otonel]

Yes I post and test some priming mixture , lead peroxide was mixed with sulfur,aluminum powder and phosphorus was reliable but not so good as matchhead priming

[perotter]

otonel,

Are you working with boxer or berdan primers?

[otonel]

Perotter,
I am working with boxer primer but in my country exist a lot of cartridge with berdan primer , from berdan primer I make boxer primer using a drill and a guide because boxer is easy to reload.
I reload some shotgun primer with my priming mix formula and work for "shortage" situation

[ray ott]

While you're collectively on primers,what's the difference chemically between modern flat top primers & the convex rounded type that fit the primer punch in my 'Ideal # 4" pliers type loading tool ?

[.22-10-45]

Gandy Dancer..that is exactly what I did when I was a kid! Read somewhere that the U.S. army forbade selling ammunition to hostiles..so they soaked match heads in water & re-primed their .44 Henry flats, .56 Spencers, etc., recharged with powder & probably just crammed a round ball in case mouth..as these were heeled bullets. This intriqued me no end..I just had to try for myself. I had to anneal case head to allow pin from older Marlin bolt gun to dent rim. Soaked strike-anywhere match heads in warm water & scraped tip off. Made up rim scraper from bent nail, filed to shape. Later, I added powder from those little plastic caps..for more reliable ignition. Made bullet mould in shop class..patterened after Lyman 224415..complete with heeled base. I first used black, as that was all I had, then later..as I wasn't old enough, my sister bought a can of Unique..these things worked! Though I made sure bore was patched with Hoppes black powder solvent after use.

[Molly]

[QUOTE=Jim;1523008]Shotshell (209) primers are a horse of an entirely different color. The primers I experimented with are those used in metallic cases.

Umm, for the record, shotshell primers can be reloaded with the same basic techniques. At least, the ones I did as a kid in the 50's seemed to work well, but I wasn't in a position to do any real scientific testing with them. I did use some slightly different techniques, but only slightly. After I got the primer cup flattened out and charged with cap gun pellets, I would make a tiny ball of tissue paper (rolling it between my hands) and drop it into the primer body before assembling the primer again. Thiis was to keep a pinch of FFFFg from dribbling out. Never had a misfire or a hang fire either.

I did a lot of otherwise crazy things along this line too: Like dampening the contents of .22 blanks so I could dig them out with a bobby pin. I used these a few times with some success, but those things are mercuric, and didn't take well to mistreatment, so I quit after a few singed fingertips. .22 Short priming is uncomfortably unpredictable too. Nice thread though. I didn't know there were so many idiots around like myself. Makes me feel right at home here. (VBG)

[shotman]

Molly must be cause you is a hillbilly

[Molly]

Molly must be cause you is a hillbilly

I've been called that. I've been called other things too on occasion, but we don't need to go into that. All in all, I prefer the term "Mountaineer". It gives pause to those who think of us as ignorant hillbillies and makes them wonder what the diference is. While they're speechless, it gives me time to mention a few of my patents, discoveries and inventions, and ask them how much further I have to go to catch up to their record.

For some reason, convesation seems to lapse a bit when it reaches that point.

[bakrzdzn]

Wow, why did it take me so long to find this thread? I have been saving all my spent primers, tho not seperatly, since I started reloading. I might be able to reuse them instead of putting them in the recycling stack.

[Jamezius Maximus]

Hello,

So is it possible to use tannerite and use acetone/mineral spirits to make a primer paste? I ask this because primers are in shortage and tannerite is made to go off when something hits it, so wouldn't it seem like a good candidate for primer compound? Please advise.

[perotter]

Hello,

So is it possible to use tannerite and use acetone/mineral spirits to make a primer paste? I ask this because primers are in shortage and tannerite is made to go off when something hits it, so wouldn't it seem like a good candidate for primer compound? Please advise.

No it won't work. The ammonium nitrate has to be made into copper tetramine nitrate. Copper tetramine nitrate was one of the first things that non-corrsive primers were made with, but to the best of my knowledge only in labs. While very simple to make, the problem is getting dry. And then keeping dry. I've never gotten around to trying as a primer compound. There are other compounds that work better.

Also, acetone/mineral spirits aren't the best thing to use in primers. Water or alcohol work and are cheaper.

[RoyEllis]

[QUOTE=Jim;1523008]Shotshell (209) primers are a horse of an entirely different color. The primers I experimented with are those used in metallic cases.

Umm, for the record, shotshell primers can be reloaded with the same basic techniques. At least, the ones I did as a kid in the 50's seemed to work well, but I wasn't in a position to do any real scientific testing with them. I did use some slightly different techniques, but only slightly. After I got the primer cup flattened out and charged with cap gun pellets, I would make a tiny ball of tissue paper (rolling it between my hands) and drop it into the primer body before assembling the primer again. Thiis was to keep a pinch of FFFFg from dribbling out. Never had a misfire or a hang fire either.

Yepper, 209 primers are definately "reloadable". Only difference on mine was I didn't have any 4f to use but I did have some "magician's flash powder" that seems to work very well for a booster charge. I'd like to figure something to use for #11 percussion caps, my BP guns all split the caps 75% of the time so they're "unrecyclable" lol

[Lead Waster]

This is interesting, I was just wondering about ball and cap bp guns and whether you can recharge the caps. Or will the percussion caps get totally mangled during firing?

I have a Pietta 1858 Remmington but have yet to fire it. I might keep the caps if this works.

[perotter]

Yes caps for CB guns can be reloaded. Easiest thing is with a toy caps. Toy caps don't use as much mix as they used to. You might have to use a toy cap and then add black powder to the cap for it to work.

[destrux]

Hang fires can be dangerous using the home made primers. However, obviously if one were in the position that either make them or don't have ammo I can see the reason for doing this. I keep coming up with a comment my boss said once in an email. Someone has too much time on their hands.
I rotate my stock of primers, usually 500 of each type I use so usually have fresh ones on hand . Why? I guess the old saying about keepping ones powder dry goes along with the reason. Be Safe


Primers seem to handle age and water better than most people think. I got a bucket full of primed .380 cases and about 1000 LP and SP primers that were stored out in a horse barn for 30 years. The primers had visual corrosion and the paper boxes had mud stuck to them and it's pretty obvious they were soaking wet for a while. I let them dry near my dehumidifier for a few days and none of them were bad or had hangfires. They were dated 1971. I was very surprised they worked.

[Skirmisher]

This is interesting, I was just wondering about ball and cap bp guns and whether you can recharge the caps. Or will the percussion caps get totally mangled during firing?

I have a Pietta 1858 Remmington but have yet to fire it. I might keep the caps if this works.

Don't waste your time. It's not worth the effort. Fired caps will split and expand if not go to pieces.

[perotter]

For a mix that should work with the Olin duplex idea. This is a non-corrosive mix.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...rtridges/page2

[destrux]

For those looking for replacement caps to use for percussion guns maybe something can be formed from old 22 cases? A punch and forming die would be simple to make.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, everyone..interesting posts! I too used to reload fired primers with toy caps..but never tried in a real gun..just with punch and hammer to see if they would work. The I got into reloading .22 rimfires using strike-anywhere match heads..sometimes adding toy cap powder to mix..these worked..but clean-up had to be done with black-powder solvents to prevent rust! I know there have been posts of non-corrosive mixes..but I still wouldn't try them..and frankly, I am a bit surprised I haven't seen it before..safety! a fired cap has a pretty fair sized punch indent..by flatening, you are workhardening..and probably setting up additional stress in something that wasn't intended to be re-used. Considering pressures around 60K are being held in check by the thin metal of the once punched primer cup. It could be like playing Russian roulette.

[offshore44]

I now this has been covered in earlier posts...but what the hey...

I messed about with "reloading" spent primers a couple of weeks ago. Did the usual dis-assembly, flattening & etc. I reloaded a series with different iterations of "Legends" roll caps and ring caps. Labeled Made in Germany. They both worked, but it must be emphasized that they create a corrosive primer, and appropriate cleaning techniques MUST be followed. I had no issues igniting my usual powder charges for a selection of my usual loads in .308. The ambient temps were in the upper 30's to lower 40's. The ammunition was very usable. No instrumentation and no objective data other than they worked 100% and nothing seemed to be amiss with point of aim etc.

The roll caps contained less than 0.023 grains of "powder" and the ring caps contained less than 0.041 grains of "powder" according to the packaging. I used two of each to recharge the primers. The ring caps were a little more energetic. Didn't see a difference in powder ignition. The fastest powder I tried was Red Dot and the slowest was H4895.

If I was hungry enough, or was faced with an unpleasant social situation without recourse, I'd use this technique. Otherwise not so much. Still keeping up on the thread for a non-corrosive alternative that uses reasonably available components though. It's nice to have proven alternatives.

[handyman77]

WOW that would normally seem like a whole lot of work for minimal economic return BUT here in 2013 when primers are an endangered species it might be an excellent alternative---

[Azshooter2013]

just thought id share

yea, primers are almost nonexistent here in phoenix, and the ones you can find are expensive. iv beed reloading my spent primers with one roll cap trimmed to fit in the cup, and filled it the rest of the way with match powder from strike anywhere matches from ace hardware. it get a good ignition and feels almost as good as new primers.

[Blue2]

A story about salvaged primers. An acquaintance of mine had a flood from a river fill his basement. He had a metal safe with his reloading primers inside and it was under water for about ten days. He passed them to me to dispose of. I did not want to throw them out without trying them out first to see if they would still function. Some of the priming compound had even bleed out of the primers. I set them on a concrete pad outside my garage to dry in the sun. At one point in the process my dog ran through the pile and knocked some off the concrete out into the gravel driveway. They disappeared into the gravel. A couple of weeks later after I had put the primers aside I was cutting up a piece of steel pipe with a chop saw and the sparks were landing into the previously seeded gravel. There was a bunch of snaping sounds as the primers fired. Primers are more durable than most people think! I would not want to use them for match loads but they are fine for cast bullets and close range hunting and target shooting.

[nicholst55]

I think we're there. You know, TEOTWAWKI, the zombie apocalypse, whatever you want to call it. You sure can't buy new primers anywhere that I know of, at any rate. Me? I'm ordering roll caps and strike-anywhere matches.