Bullet Lube Failure signs ?

[milprileb]

I am chasing down some variables and wonder if my bullet lube is failing me.

I was using BAC w/o any leading but recently, I decided to use the 2500 lube when I ran out of BAC. I have not changed loads at all but am wondering if leading
in the barrel can be caused by this lube change.

Anyone ever use 2500 for 9mm cast bullets ?

Just asking .. I am a firm believer in Carnuba Red for 45acp and BAC for 9mm and will not change on my trust of either lube.

I kind of think I might be at fault here by trying that 2500 for pistol loads though.

[geargnasher]

You don't give details of the load to indicate what sort of pressures you're pushing, but I suppose it's possible that the 2500 has too much viscosity for the application. Honestly, I'm surpised by this. Usually if you substitute one good lube for another, and their composition is fairly close as these two are and get some leading, it isn't the lube per se, but a borderline issue with something else that has been exposed by the change.

I'm a firm believer in Carnauba Red in 9mm and .40, and something akin to BAC or 50/50 in the lower-pressure .45 ACP.

Gear

[williamwaco]

I know this is not a popular opinion but I don't think you can beat Lee Liquid Alox.

I have used LLA in .38 special at 650 fps to 900fps. 9mm at 800 to 1100, and the .357 from around 1100 to over 1600 in a carbine with absolutely Zero leading.

[geargnasher]

Perhaps an unpopular, but not invalid by any means. Opinions based on solid good experience are worth more than just about anything else.

Gear

[Lefty SRH]

What is BAC?

[Oreo]

Blood alcohol content.

[Longone]

Mine is low right now, I'll be back.

Longone

[milprileb]

BAC is a bullet lube made by White Label. Its been a great pistol bullet lube.

Gear: The load is 3.9 gr of WW 231 and Lee 120 Gr TC bullet. I find it interesting you were using Carnuba Red for 9mm and BAC for the 45acp. I was doing the exact opposite. I will reverse my protocol here.

Williamwaco: I have not found LLA to do well with 9mm in RN or TC bullets as I do get leading using it. That could be other variables at play. I have had leading using it in 45 acp but one load did not lead so the jury is still out in my mind on LLA. My next use of LLA will be the Recluse JPA mixture which seems by all accounts to improve the LLA performance.

[44man]

Mine is low right now, I'll be back.

Longone
Do I have to start this early in the morning too? [smilie=s:
I don't have any BAC left to compare and I never had any 2500 so I have to wonder if 2500 is harder? I don't know.
I never had luck with LLA in my big bores, it leaded my bores but the worst thing was in accuracy comparisons it did really poor.
Felix, CR and soft blue were pretty much equal in group sizes.
I like Felix since I lube most boolits with my fingers. I tried it once with CR but raised a big blister! :veryconfu I keep that in my lube sizer now.

[GabbyM]

As touchy as 9mm and 45 acp are to load I’d be looking more at the bullet crimp. Two things I keep in a drawer in my bench while loading 9mm and 45 acp. One is the barrel for the gun the other is a kinetic bullet puller to knock out a bullet to check for over crimp and or bullet swaging. Always segregating brass by headstanp and then some.

Thus I’d knock out a bullet to check for swaged undersize.

With a 9mm I’ve run into brass variation that went from a case inside taper that allowed bullet seating to one where the cases tapered in and the expander plug was to short resulting in a swaged bullet base. Remington cases are known for being thinner in many calibers but the ones I have in 9mm get thick past where a 124gr RN will seat and the expander plugs reach. You can see the bulge on the outside of the case.

It could be that a better lube was covering up other issues in your 9mm loads.

[milprileb]

Gabby,

No contest. Other issues not yet identified could be at play. 9mm has proven to be a problematic round to cast and reload for. 45acp has not, never was and continues to be
just about fool proof for excellent results.

There are variables but my M die is setting conditions up for no swaging of bullets. I am getting accuracy now but I am getting (out of the blue) leading.

Thus my question on bullet lubes. I did change bullet lubes and thus: I am getting leading.

White Label Lubes have never failed me but 2500 is not a pistol lube so I may have porked the pooch using it for 9mm.

The use of CR for 9mm has merit. I am eying 8 sticks of CR at the moment and the Lyman lubericator heater has arrived.... may have to try CR in 9mm loads.

Merry Christmas.

[buyobuyo]

I use 2500+ for my 9mm loadings, and I don't have problems with leading. What are you using as an alloy, and how hard is it.

I'm using water dropped 50/50 which age hardens to ~20 BHN. I size as large as I can without getting hard chambering and just take out the flare until the round chambers.

[NSP64]

I like speed green on everthing lead. Pistol , rifle.

[GabbyM]

Gabby,

No contest. Other issues not yet identified could be at play. 9mm has proven to be a problematic round to cast and reload for. 45acp has not, never was and continues to be
just about fool proof for excellent results.

There are variables but my M die is setting conditions up for no swaging of bullets. I am getting accuracy now but I am getting (out of the blue) leading.

.

First off I keep hearing for the last forty years all about how the 45 acp is so great. I like them too but don't buy into all the BS. I've seen far more issues with it than any other and maybe all other guns combined.

The M die does not stop you from crushing the boolit with the seat die or crimp die.

[milprileb]

I am not seeing any bullet crushing and or crimp issues (hair like crimp). I tested the Lee, Dillon and RCBS seating dies with no difference in ammo performance. I seat and crimp in
separate steps.

[btroj]

I have had loads for my 45 ACP that leaded with one lube, not with another.

I was using CR in my 1911 45 ACP and it just wanted to lead. I changed to a softer lube and the leading seems to have gone away. Same alloy, same casting style, same size. I know it isn't a loading issue as I can shoot 200 rounds Wii one lube and have no lead yet with the other lube I get lead within 50 rounds.

[1Shirt]

:coffee:I have gone with Can Red for all rifle, and the 50-50 Alox/Beeswax for handgun, and have been well satisfied.
1Shirt!

[williamwaco]

BAC is a bullet lube made by White Label. Its been a great pistol bullet lube.

Gear: The load is 3.9 gr of WW 231 and Lee 120 Gr TC bullet. I find it interesting you were using Carnuba Red for 9mm and BAC for the 45acp. I was doing the exact opposite. I will reverse my protocol here.

Williamwaco: I have not found LLA to do well with 9mm in RN or TC bullets as I do get leading using it. That could be other variables at play. I have had leading using it in 45 acp but one load did not lead so the jury is still out in my mind on LLA. My next use of LLA will be the Recluse JPA mixture which seems by all accounts to improve the LLA performance.




I have been loading the .45 ACP since the 1960s. The only cartridge I have ever found to give LESS leading trouble than the .45ACP is the .38 Special.

I know that the 9mm is troublesome for lots of loaders. I too had trouble with it until I dumped the commercial cast bullets and cast my own. My 9mm trouble was caused by undersized hard bullets with hard lube. As soon as I started using an alloy around 14 BNH with LLA I have had no more troubles. Oh yes, Size .357. ( My current favorite for the 9mm is the Lee TL356-124-TC.)

It is a screamer in the .357 Mag. Not really usefull, too light but really fast.



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If you are having trouble with the .45 ACP