1858 Remington / 45LC Conversion cylinders

[rbertalotto]

I just bought a pair of 1858 Remingtons with 45LC cartridge conversion cylinders.

A few questions:

Ball or Boolits?
Grease over the ball even in a cartridge?
What grade BP/

Anything else you can add would be greatly appreciated.

http://images38.fotki.com/v1220/photos/2/36012/10288332/Picture002-vi.jpg

[bigted]

very cool looking set...hope they shoot as well as they look.

[Lefty SRH]

50/50 mix of Murphy Oil Soap and HOT water when its time to clean after shooting black powder.

[Mk42gunner]

I've never been around any of the conversion cylinders, but I see no need for grease over the balls in a cartridge; I don't even use it anymore with loose powder and ball. I use a felt wad between the powder and ball. I would do the same in a cartridge case, if you really want to shoot roundballs.

I think I would start out with a 200 gr boolit, and see where it shot. It looks like you have a pretty tall front sight, you might need the extra recoil of a 250gr boolit to get youre elevation right.

I would use FFg, at least to start with.

[rbertalotto]

Thanks!

[freedom475]

TrailBoss works prety well, but my loads are mostly all with real BP, I don't know if it matters what grade,,,I have always just used 3ff in everything, I have not found anything that 3f wouldn't do...but if all I had/could find was 2f or 4f I would use it. I know the 4f deal freaks a lot of people out...I have tested and talked the matter over a lot with the ballistic tecs and through all there testing,(in an attempt to blow something up) there is not much diffence between 2, 3, and 4f...Until the powder column reaches 3 1/2 inches in length (bad things happen at this point with 4fff...but not possible in a 45 colt length cylinder.

I think that accuracy stays better longer when 25gr of Bp is toped with enough COW to fill the case to the boolit. When large charges are used, I think my guns just fouls out quicker so the accuracy seems to fade fast...but if you want the BOOM factor then more is better...lol

I found that the 45colt RoundBall loads in my conversions were not accurate at all. They would slice way off in an unpredictable direction when I shot them around a 100yards...But with the Cap&Ball cylinder the RB's shoot great!

And the 250gr boolits hit waaaay high... Accuracy with them is real good. The shots will all stay on a paper plate at 100yards with a 6 o'clock hold. I ended up going with the EPP-UG 155 big lube that Springfield sells http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

Now she shoots real well,,,I think I may give a couple more of his big-lubes a try..like the 195 Schofield or the 45 slim.


Have fun the Remingtons are a blast...just remember to keep your base pin lubed..and when you are trying to force out an unlubed base pin and your hand slips and the loading lever anchor takes a huge chunk of meat out of your hand...well that's all part of it and your not alone:mrgreen:

[excess650]

You now effectively have cartridge revolvers, so load the cartridges accordingly. The boolit needs to be a snug fit in the cylinder throats, lube with BP compatible lube, and I would suggest fffg. Boolits for BP should be soft.

[cajun shooter]

If you are going to shoot SASS matches then I would load with 2F powder as it will take less because of it's grain size and produce less recoil which leads to faster shooting.
Use Mobil 1 Synthetic grease that may be purchased at Auto Zone and other stores. It is so good that you may coat your base pins and shoot an entire match with out the first sign of binding.
The posting by the other member is correct in that bullets are much more accurate than ball ammo. The Big lube design holds the amount of lube needed for BP shooting. They will not foul the bore and keep the fouling that remains very soft for easy cleaning.
They will have persons who will tell you to clean with water and soap because that is what has always been used. Water will cause the gun to rust if not removed.
The better products are Ballistol which which when you mix just 2 ounces with 14 ounces of water it makes what is called Moosemilk.
You may already be aware of this but I thought I would throw it in. Another Product that works well on rifles and shotguns is Windex/Vinegar. Make sure you don't pick up the one with ammonia as that will cause all kinds of problems.Shooting Bp is about the most fun you may have. Make sure that you put all your fired cases into a bucket that contains Dawn/OXY and Lemon Juice Concentrate for at least a hour. The water will be black and stink like crazy. Rinse well before cleaning with your media. Later David

[rbertalotto]

OK, so here is the plan thus far..........

I bought a couple hundred "Cowboy 45 Special" cases and a mold from Dick Dastardly for the "45SLIM" boolit.

I ordered some Ballistol for clean up and general lubing.

I'm going to use both smokeless (Green Dot and Trail Boss) and FF powder as I have good quantities of these in stock.

Should be fun!

[Hang Fire]

Just my 2 pennies, POA and POI are not going to be like C&B.

I have the gated Kirst conversion on my Remmy with adjustable sights, still can't get set low enough, even after filing rear top down and lowering the square notch much as I can.

On mine, the heavier the boolit, the higher it shoots, 255 grn, forgedabotit, 200 grn some better, but not much. The best I have found is 185 grn SWC, but even they shoot a little high, think maybe something in the range of 165 grn might be about right.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010001-17.jpg

Belt and suspenders, hey ya never know.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010004-8.jpg

[Dixie Slugs]

Those look like R&D cylinders. Try (Ken Waters) load of 10.5 grs Herco and Laser Cast 200 gr LC bullet sized .452". The chamber throats of our R&D mike at .452".
Both the Kirst and R&D can be us with any standard (not Ruger) load that develops 12,000 psi or less. This is straight from Kirst and R&D.
Regards, James

[KCSO]

I use a 230 grain rnfp bullet over 28 grains of FFG black powder and that shoots just about right on. I see some reccommend 3F but I have never found 3 F in an original load 2F seems to be what was used in the CTG guns. Now in the round ball cap and ball loads 3F might work OK but I have gotten better accuracy with 2F and a somewhat lighter load.

[rbertalotto]

I received my Cowboy 45 spl brass and the mold for the 45-SLIM, 170g Big Lube boolits.

Loaded up a bunch of cases with Blackhorn 209, Trail Boss and Green Dot....Wanted to try them out today but the rain came and washed that idea away!

The Blackhorn 209 is an interesting powder. Lots of smoke and great sparks and fireball, just like BP, but cleanup like smokeless. Since I'm only using 12 grains in the CB45 Spl brass, the $30 for 10oz is reasonable.

http://images110.fotki.com/v615/photos/2/36012/10295030/DSC_4063-vi.jpg

Cowboy 45 Special with a 45LC along side for comparison.
45_SLIM bullet in front with a 200 and 255 grain in the rear.

Range report to follow.......

[Grapeshot]

As with any conversion of a C&B revolver to cartridge, the heavier boolit will hit high. On my Remington '58, POI was 13 inches higher than POA with a 250 grain .452 boolit. I then decided that I needed to shoot lighter boolits. Trying some 230 grain hollow based boolits resulted in a drop of 2 inches from POA, making the POI 11 inches high. I then decided to use the 185 grain .452 WC designed for the .45 ACP. I felt that the .45 Colt Cartridge was to long for this boolit if I wanted to reduce my powder charge. So I took 100 nickled .45 Colt cases and trimed them back to .45 Schofield length and tried out the 185 grain WC. Now I was only 4 inches higher than POA.

I found some 165 grain LSWC's at Kittery Trading Post and bought them. A quick trip through my Swaging Dies and I transformed them into a hollow based conical boolit. Now they were hitting about an inch high at 30 feet. Almost as good as my percussion cylinder and .454 roundballs.

I might sugest the EPP-UG boolit for your Remington to go along with the .45CS brass. You will have very good results.

[emptythemag]

I also just completed a .45LC Kirst gated Konversion on my 1858. I haven't had the chance to take it to the range yet, to see how it shoots.

For an initial trial run I was thinking about picking up some Ultramax 200 or 250 grain RNFP or similar boolits, just to see how it shoots and hits silhouette shaped paper targets.

From what I'm reading here, I'm suspecting that I'll see it shooting quite high. I'm planning on eventually loading up all my own BP loads with Starline brass, so I guess there will be lots of future trial and error with bullet weight and BP powder, till I get point of aim to match point of impact.

[Savvy Jack]

I have a Pietta 58 with the conversion cylinder. I loaded up some 200gr BigLube bullets with 40gr Swiss FF and got these one handed shots at 25 feet. POA/bullseye. The problem, I am sure, is the shooter.....
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/0702121930.jpg?t=1341271973
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f36/CurtissHawk/Dscf2201.jpg

[rbertalotto]

"Wicked Fun.......Huh!"

I love shooting my converted 1858 sheriff models so much that I just bought two 8" versions from Cabelas........!!

[emptythemag]

Here are two photos of my 1858 conversion project. I still have a little work to go before its complete.
I realize my Richards Mason style ejector is not historically accurate... but I wanted to do something that reminded one of something cobbled up by a gun shop back in the late 1800's.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_177874ff275704b4d5.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5740)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_177874ff275926b7f9.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5741)

[Ramar]

Mine came yesterday from Cabelas. I've never had a 1858 in my hand before; if I had I may not have bought one. I never thought I had big hands. I can only get 2 fingers on the grip with the little finger under the butt to be comfortable. If I take a conventional grip there's a big rub on the finger by the trigger guard and I anticipate problems with extended shooting. The trigger guard is brass and you couldn't ask for a better metal to work with in the modifying it to a better contour.

That said, I wish I bought 2!!! Can't wait to KIRST it and tune it.
Ramar

[emptythemag]

I think most shooter will end up as you said, only getting 2 fingers on the grip with the little finger under the butt to be comfortable. Its not like holding a newer made revolver at all. To me, the feel is just so different in my hand....but in a good way.
The 1858's are aesthetically pretty but the grip itself doesn't give you a whole lot to hang onto.

I also thought about doing a second one, but my conversion is build on a CVA from the 1970's. If I had the money, I'd love to build a matching pair with a set of Ubertis or Piettas.

[bigted]

the grip thing is exactly why i like the 1860 model colt pistolas . the grip frame is larger for my larger hands. i have a brass frame 1858 remington and it bumps my finger to bleeding from full loads in cap-n-ball style.

getting the urge to order another '60' and resume the pistoleering fun n games. gotta love the smell and thunder of bp thru a revolver huh???

[rbertalotto]

Well my 1858 /8" came in from Cabelas......I already have one from 20 years ago. The difference in quality of machining and fit and finish is amazing. The new Pietta is 100 times better than the 20 year old one.

Anyways, The Kirst cylinders from my Sheriff models fit right in and needed zero work to function beautifully.

Using a Dremel and a 1/2" grinding wheel I had the loading slots cut in a jiffy.

Took them to the range...The older Pietta has adjustable sights and the new one doesn't.

At 25 feet, standing, two hand grip, both revolvers were shooting into many one hole groups! each bullet hole simply cutting the previous one! Amazing!

This was with Cowboy 45 brass and 170g Big Lube bullets over both 3.5g Trail Boss and 16g FF Black Powder.

Next I moved to the 50 yard gong we have at the range. This is an 8" disc hung by chains. The adjustable site revolver hit the plate 6 out of ten shots. And I never adjusted the sites from the last time I shot it as a Cap and Ball revolver which was over 5 years ago!

The "none sighted" revolver was a bit more of a challenge. But I hit the plate a few times.

So now my collection is a p[air of Brasser 1851, a pair of Kirst converted 1860 5.5" barrels. a pair of 1858 Sheriff 95.5" barrels) and these two "Buffalo" pistols.......Gotta love these C&B revolvers!

Pictures later....Sorry

[Ramar]

bigted,
You might want to try what worked for me with the 1858 grip bite. When I used the 2 finger grip, the top finger would ride up and contact the trigger guard and generally not be a firm grip to start anyway. I put a rubber wedge that gave my top finger a stop area and cushion for recoil/rebound. Now when I grab or draw quickly there is no problem where the little finger goes because there's no choice it only fits in one place and the contact with the trigger guard has been eliminated. Hope the pictures help.

Ramar

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_215404ff5763986c3e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5784)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_215404ff57639a6bec.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5786)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_215404ff576fe456c7.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5787)http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_215404ff576fe51244.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5788)

[bigted]

thats a dandy idea...will try it, thanks.