How many per pound?

[Jammer Six]

Okay, if you buy a pound, (or ten pounds, or whatever you'd buy) when everything is said and done at the end of the session, how many boolits do you have ready to load?

Now, before someone jumps up and yells "it depends on the boolit!" let's say that we're talking about .45 200 grain SWCs, to feed a 1911.

If you had a full ten pound pot, how many boolits would that be?

[bradh]

10 pounds times 7000 grains per pound divided by 200 grain bullet = 350 boolits.

[drklynoon]

7000 gr per #. with a 200 gr bullet thats about 35 bullets a pound. You have some loss due to flux material and the fact that noone drains a pot and you will have some rejects I would say about 200-250. I just poured about 8 pounds in a 255 gr mould but had a huge throw back rate. I thew back about 50 or so and was left with about 175. this was due to using a different pot and not being sure of where it needed to operate at.

[ku4hx]

Knowing how the marketing department likes to stretch the truth, do you have a pot with 10 pounds of alloy in it or an advertised ten pound pot filled with alloy? How many pounds depends on the exact alloy: a pot filled to the brim with pure lead will weigh more than that same pot filled with Linotype. So with a nod to the marketing boys let's just surmised you actually have your pot loaded with 10.0 pounds of your favorite perfectly clean alloy.

(10 pounds x 7000 grains/pound / 200 grains/boolit) = 350 boolits ... in a perfect, mathematical world.

But usually I just weight the pile of boolits on a reasonably accurate set of bathroom scales then count 'em.

[btroj]

I have a 20 pound RCBS pot. I figured get around 500 to 600 200 swc per pot full. I don't fps rain the pot completely empty. I don't add sprue back in while I am casting.

This is a question with no real answer. You need to figure in some loss for sprue, dross, spillage, etc but how much is that? If you aren't adding sprue back in then the variation in sprue size from pour to pour can be added in too.

I would figure that for a bullet like that you can eprealistically get 250 to 275 per pot if not adding sprue back in.

Best way to get a feel for this is to cast a couple pots full using your normal technique and count bullets. That's how I arrived at my "norms".

[ChuckS1]

Well, this is what happens with my setup and casting technique. I get about 120 good 200 grain SWC out of my Lee 10 lb pot when I fill it within a 1/2" of the top with molten alloy and cast until the level reaches about 1/4 of the pot. The sprues and the rejects are kept until I refill the pot. I use a 2 cavity mold and generally it takes about 10 or 15 times before I get the mold to where it casts nice boolits, depending on how long I let the moid preheat.

[Lizard333]

The other thing you need to consider is that the lee pots don't realistickly hold ten pounds. I leave a little room on the top for flux. Other wise you will make a huge mess. IF I had to guess I would say about 250, giving that you don't put the sprues back and for the the screw ups at the beginning.

Why are you asking?? What are you trying to find out?

[geargnasher]

I quit thinking in these terms long ago.

My "20" lb pot holds about 17 lbs of WW alloy with a quarter-inch to spare for flux. I run it down a bit below halfway and refill to keep the stream volume from the spout about right. I never empty a bottom-pour pot when casting because the head pressure changes too much. If you are counting your alloy by the pound and trying to squeeze every last boolit out of it, you'll be pretty frustrated. I'd say a minimum alloy on-hand for low production work would be about 30 lbs.

Doing the math on 7000 grains per pound will tell you number per pound of any boolit weight, but it's only really useful for figuring how many boolits you have, not how many you can cast.

Gear

[williamwaco]

Gear is spot on.


It depends:

As has been stated, a ten pound pot is not going to hold more than about 8 pounds. A one pound Ingot does not weigh one pound. A 200 grain mold does not drop a 200 grain bullet. There is always loss when fluxing and splashing from drips, unless your just don't flux and your pot doesn't drip.

I can't address 200 grain .45 bullets but I have cast about 999,999,999,999,999 or there abouts 158 grain .357 bullets. My HP calculator says I should get 44.3 bullets per pound. Amazingly, my Casio calculator says the exact same thing.

Perhaps I can't count right but when I judge weight by number of one pound ingots, I get about 38 bullets per pound. When I actually weigh the input I get about 40 bullets per pound.


I hear a lot about the Tinsle Fairy on this forum. I wonder if she imposes a 10% tax on my alloy? She does visit my shop occasionally.

The math says you should get 35 bullets per pound. I am pretty sure it will be less. I would love to know the actual number. I am betting it will be around 32.




.

[fredj338]

How does this simple math escape reloaders?

[williamwaco]

It is called fuzzy math.

It is the same math used by the Congress and the Congressional Budget Office.


No matter what you expect, you will always pay more, and receive less than your math indicates.



Merry Christmas.



.

[geargnasher]

Fred, it's the public eduation system. They no longer teach grain or even dram equivalent in phyical science class.

Gear

[stubshaft]

Luckily lead is not a precious metal, if it was then it would be measured and traded in Troy ounces/pounds. Therefore a precious metal like Gold weighs 10 Troy ounces to the pound or 10.96 ounces Avoirdupois weight (the one we are all used to).

[btroj]

So, how many milligrams does a gr weigh? Can you do it without searching?

[375RUGER]

So, how many milligrams does a gr weigh? Can you do it without searching?

Do you really want to know? or are you just messing around?
1 grain is 64.799 mg

[Sonnypie]

1 gram weighs 1000 milli grams.
This is one nod I will give to the metric system.
It's so simple a 3rd world country can understand it. :bigsmyl2:

[Jammer Six]

I'm doing a cost and breakeven calculation, of course.

And I have good news.

Here's the breakdown. It's based on real life, at one moment in time, that moment being the moment I ran my searches.

The lead prices came right off this website, and I searched for the commercial prices as if I were about to buy. It's a search I've made many times. This time, though, it all went into a spreadsheet.

The sellers here each got a free bump.

Lead sellers:

Jeff Holt, 686, Kendall Yates, Odinohi and Chunky Monkey.

Commercial bullet makers:

Missouri Bullet, Suter's Choice (through Midway), Moyer's, Meister and Rim Rock.

The average commercial cost per bullet is $0.09383. Almost a dime a shot.

The average cost per pound of lead is $1.2857.

At 250 boolits per pound, that's 0.00514. A little over half a cent a shot.

A MUCH larger difference than I expected.

That difference, the difference per shot between casting and buying, is $0.0869.

You save almost nine cents a shot by casting.

To finish the analysis, the break evens on investment are as follows:

If you invest $500 in equipment, the break even is 5,637.53. Cast 5,650, and your investment has paid for itself.

The other break even points are as follows.

$1,000: 11,275.
$2,000: 22,550.
$3,000: 33,825.
$4,000: 45.100.

And now you know. Carry on.

[Sonnypie]

On subject...
I just finished off my 30 calibers today. GC, Lubed, sized, cleaned, and tucked away in a coffee container.
18.8 pounds, a handful averaged ~173 grains.
760.6936416 doing the math.
Now you know, and I know, there isn't a .6936416 grain boolit in there. [smilie=6:

But I see it as a pile of FUN! :D

PS: I don't really care how many there really is. ;)

[Tonto]

I think about yield a lot but the best approach is cast until you have what you need or run out of alloy, weigh the results then count the bullets and you will have your answer. I add hot sprues back into the pot while casting and pre-warm ingots to keep the pot 3/4 full as needed. I've gotten good with gloves and needle nose pliers.

[Sonnypie]

I'm doing a cost and breakeven calculation, of course.

And I have good news.

Here's the breakdown. It's based on real life, at one moment in time, that moment being the moment I ran my searches.

The lead prices came right off this website, and I searched for the commercial prices as if I were about to buy. It's a search I've made many times. This time, though, it all went into a spreadsheet.

The sellers here each got a free bump.

Lead sellers:

Jeff Holt, 686, Kendall Yates, Odinohi and Chunky Monkey.

Commercial bullet makers:

Missouri Bullet, Suter's Choice (through Midway), Moyer's, Meister and Rim Rock.

The average commercial cost per bullet is $0.09383. Almost a dime a shot.

The average cost per pound of lead is $1.2857.

At 250 boolits per pound, that's 0.00514. A little over half a cent a shot.

A MUCH larger difference than I expected.

That difference, the difference per shot between casting and buying, is $0.00869.

You save almost nine cents a shot by casting.

To finish the analysis, the break evens on investment are as follows:

If you invest $500 in equipment, the break even is 5,637.53. Cast 5,650, and your investment has paid for itself.

The other break even points are as follows.

$1,000: 11,275.
$2,000: 22,550.
$3,000: 33,825.
$4,000: 45.100.

And now you know. Carry on.

Dear Lord,
If I ever have this much time on my hands, or ever get this bored....
PLEASE strike my butt with lightening and take me home.
Amen!

[btroj]

Do you really want to know? or are you just messing around?
1 grain is 64.799 mg

I already knew. Job hazard of being a pharmacist. Just a random quesrion

[Sonnypie]

I already knew. Job hazard of being a pharmacist. Just a random quesrion

quesrion?

What the heck is a quesrion? :shock:

[para45lda]

Thanks for the breakdown. SWMBO saw it and said I had saved enough money. It was her turn!!

Wes

[AndyC]

quesrion?

What the heck is a quesrion? :shock:
It's somewhere between a quest and a querion - unrelated to a boson, boron, moron, quasar or pulsar.

Now ya know 8-)

[Sonnypie]

It's somewhere between a quest and a querion - unrelated to a boson, boron, moron, quasar or pulsar.

Now ya know 8-)

Moron?....
Hey! I resemble that remark! :lol:;)

[WilNsc]

The biggest difference between store bought and home brewed is the overhead and labor costs involved. For a true comparison you would have to factor in your time, electricity, housing costs while you cast, ect..

[jblee10]

I consider casting as a hobby or a relaxing past time. The savings and the ability to have something others can't buy is a bonus. When I start looking at casting only as money and figure time, electricity, rent, etc. Or look at it as work, I'll hire someone to do my casting for me.

[Jammer Six]

The biggest difference between store bought and home brewed is the overhead and labor costs involved. For a true comparison you would have to factor in your time, electricity, housing costs while you cast, ect..

Maybe to you.

I ran a contracting firm for 20 years and learned (many times the hard way) what costs matter to me.

I'm isolating the only break even costs that matter to me. Looking at buying casting or swaging equipment may generate costs that are not only different, but matter in a way to you that don't matter to me-- if, for instance, you had to go out and rent space to cast or swage in.

If you're going to factor in EVERYTHING, (a thing I learned not to do before 1985, because you end up trying to count nails, and that's just not a good way to go, believe me.) you'd have to find a way to quantify the difference in accuracy between store bought and hand-crafted, fit specifically for a certain weapon.

I learned not to look at everything, and to identify, isolate and count the things that mattered.

But you can count the electricity if you want to. But mine is paid for, because I'm not going to turn the lights out when I finish casting, and Mrs. Jammer is going to use her computer while I cast.

:-D

Carry on.

[btroj]

A quesrion is a sign of poor typing ability. I have that nailed down!

If you view casting as work it isn't likely that you will continue doing it for too long. I bet most of us here view casting as a hobby, it is a part of our past time.

[MikeS]

Luckily lead is not a precious metal, if it was then it would be measured and traded in Troy ounces/pounds. Therefore a precious metal like Gold weighs 10 Troy ounces to the pound or 10.96 ounces Avoirdupois weight (the one we are all used to).

I always thought there were 12 Troy ounces to the pound, but you're saying 10, is there such a thing as a Troy pound? If so, and 10 Troy ounces make a Troy pound, would 12 make a Avoirdupois pound? Or is the number 12 just totally wrong?

[WilNsc]

Maybe to you.

I ran a contracting firm for 20 years and learned (many times the hard way) what costs matter to me.

I'm isolating the only break even costs that matter to me. Looking at buying casting or swaging equipment may generate costs that are not only different, but matter in a way to you that don't matter to me-- if, for instance, you had to go out and rent space to cast or swage in.

If you're going to factor in EVERYTHING, (a thing I learned not to do before 1985, because you end up trying to count nails, and that's just not a good way to go, believe me.) you'd have to find a way to quantify the difference in accuracy between store bought and hand-crafted, fit specifically for a certain weapon.

I learned not to look at everything, and to identify, isolate and count the things that mattered.

But you can count the electricity if you want to. But mine is paid for, because I'm not going to turn the lights out when I finish casting, and Mrs. Jammer is going to use her computer while I cast.

:-D

Carry on.

I wasn't disagreeing in the least, I usually count my labor as free with my hobbies, espically reloading since it's fun in itself. I was just justifying the 9 cent or so difference between buying and casting.

The real wow factor is when you compare things like 55gr .223 bullets. 50 lbs of lead is around 6300 projectiles. Compared to commercial costs of jacketed around $120 per 1000 it's a huge savings.

[deltaenterprizes]

When I sold boolits I put 15 lbs of 45-200 SWCs in a box and called it close enough for 500 count. There was usually 15 or 20 over the 500 count.

[MikeS]

The biggest difference between store bought and home brewed is the overhead and labor costs involved. For a true comparison you would have to factor in your time, electricity, housing costs while you cast, ect..

While that is technically correct, it's also wrong. Lets look at it slightly differently. Say it takes 3 hours to cast then lube/size 250 boolits. If you buy them, you have to add the cost of shipping them as well. You also have to add in the cost of a movie rental to take up the 3 hours you now have on your hands that you wouldn't have if you were making them yourself.

By casting them yourself you not only have more control over them (size, hardness, lube selection, etc.) but you also have a hobby that lets you do something productive while doing something relaxing at the same time. Most people that cast their own either consider the whole boolit production as something enjoyable to do in it's own right, and the fact that there's a savings in cost is secondary. If you go into casting to save money, and don't start considering it as a hobby, you won't be casting long before you decide it's not worth it, and just buy your bullets by the box.

[geargnasher]

While that is technically correct, it's also wrong. Lets look at it slightly differently. Say it takes 3 hours to cast then lube/size 250 boolits. If you buy them, you have to add the cost of shipping them as well. You also have to add in the cost of a movie rental to take up the 3 hours you now have on your hands that you wouldn't have if you were making them yourself.

By casting them yourself you not only have more control over them (size, hardness, lube selection, etc.) but you also have a hobby that lets you do something productive while doing something relaxing at the same time. Most people that cast their own either consider the whole boolit production as something enjoyable to do in it's own right, and the fact that there's a savings in cost is secondary. If you go into casting to save money, and don't start considering it as a hobby, you won't be casting long before you decide it's not worth it, and just buy your bullets by the box.

Well said, Mike, you get an "Amen" from me on that!

Gear

[blackthorn]

Sony pie said: "Dear Lord,
If I ever have this much time on my hands, or ever get this bored....
PLEASE strike my butt with lightening and take me home.
Amen!"

Sonny---By the look of the picture you posted in the "Newbe looking to start casting" thread ---- She tried --and missed!! LOL

[Sonnypie]

It's only the first boolit that costs thousands of dollars....
Then all the rest are paid for. [smilie=w:

(Who the heck thinks they are going to save money by casting and reloading? :veryconfu )

I do! I do! [smilie=s:

It keeps me out of mischief. :cry:

[Jammer Six]

Will you guys line up and get on board, please?

I'm trying to work an appropriations bill through the Executive Branch here, and I have charts, spreadsheets and graphs to back me up! What's wrong with you guys? I thought the International Coalition of Men has rules about this stuff!

But if you guys give Ms. Jammer any more ammunition, (pun, laugh now) she's going to veto!

[bushboy]

I'm doing a cost and breakeven calculation, of course.

And I have good news.

Here's the breakdown. It's based on real life, at one moment in time, that moment being the moment I ran my searches.

The lead prices came right off this website, and I searched for the commercial prices as if I were about to buy. It's a search I've made many times. This time, though, it all went into a spreadsheet.

The sellers here each got a free bump.

Lead sellers:

Jeff Holt, 686, Kendall Yates, Odinohi and Chunky Monkey.

Commercial bullet makers:

Missouri Bullet, Suter's Choice (through Midway), Moyer's, Meister and Rim Rock.

The average commercial cost per bullet is $0.09383. Almost a dime a shot.

The average cost per pound of lead is $1.2857.

At 250 boolits per pound, that's 0.00514. A little over half a cent a shot.

A MUCH larger difference than I expected.

That difference, the difference per shot between casting and buying, is $0.0869.

You save almost nine cents a shot by casting.

To finish the analysis, the break evens on investment are as follows:

If you invest $500 in equipment, the break even is 5,637.53. Cast 5,650, and your investment has paid for itself.

The other break even points are as follows.

$1,000: 11,275.
$2,000: 22,550.
$3,000: 33,825.
$4,000: 45.100.

And now you know. Carry on.


As no one else has commented on this, maybe I missed something. In your OP you stated a boolit weight of 200 grs for a basis of comparison. In the above pricing breakdown you use 250 boolits per pound and a cost of "A little over half a cent a shot". 250 boolits per pound would be a 28 gr boolit in a perfect world and much smaller in a real casting situation if you could even cast a boolit that small. I'm thinking a revision in your spreadsheet will result in some major changes.

[Jammer Six]

Yup, you're right.

There goes my appropriations...

It should have been 25 boolits per pound, not 250.

That's going to make them a nickel apiece...

[sigh...]

[Sonnypie]

It's OK, we won't tell Mrs. Jammer.
You actually had thousandths and 10 thousandths of cents there. But hey, who's counting.

Put Mrs. Jammer on the phone, Please.
"Hello?"
"Listen Mrs. Jammer, a Man's got to do what a man's got to do! You like that nice home you get to nest in? You like them appliances you chose? Good! Now Mr. Jammer needs a few dispensations as well. Because, well, a Man's got to do what a Man's got to do!"
Click, buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

Humm. Ya know what? That didn't work here either. :-(
So I just went ahead a bought what I felt I needed. They are my tools after all.
YMMV

But a Man's gotta do what a Man's gotta do!
Fortunately for me this wife understands that. I don't drink, I don't gamble, and I don't carouse around. But by God, I have a shop, and I have an office (man cave).
Good luck to Ya, Jammer.

[Jammer Six]

I only had to change one number in the spreadsheet, but it broke my heart to do it.

I debated going back and editing the original post, then realized I should just let it be, and give Bushboy all the credit.

Here's the new, revised, correct breakdown:

I'm doing a cost and breakeven calculation, of course.

And I have good news.

Here's the breakdown. It's based on real life, at one moment in time, that moment being the moment I ran my searches.

The lead prices came right off this website, and I searched for the commercial prices as if I were about to buy. It's a search I've made many times. This time, though, it all went into a spreadsheet.

The sellers here each got a free bump.

Lead sellers:

Jeff Holt, 686, Kendall Yates, Odinohi and Chunky Monkey.

Commercial bullet makers:

Missouri Bullet, Suter's Choice (through Midway), Moyer's, Meister and Rim Rock.

The average commercial cost per bullet is $0.09383. Almost a dime a shot.

The average cost per pound of lead is $1.2857.

At 25 boolits per pound, that's 0.0514. A little over a nickel a shot.

A MUCH larger difference than I expected. (Well, that's still true, but I liked it better at half a cent...)

That difference, the difference per shot between casting and buying, is $0.04241.

You save a little over four cents a shot by casting.

To finish the analysis, the break evens on investment are as follows:

If you invest $500 in equipment, the break even is 11,790. Cast 12,000, and your investment has paid for itself.

The break even point at a thousand dollars is:

$1,000: 23,585.

And now you know. Carry on.

[Sonnypie]

Did you figure in primers, powder, gas checks, shipping, gas for acquiring lead, range trips, and range fees?
I think my investment right now is... drumroll.... about $5 a boolit. :kidding:

[whisler]

When compared to the cost of a psychiatrist, it is really insignificant.

[MBTcustom]

Whats wrong with 28 grain boolits? Apparently none of you fellers is casting for the .17 remington?
That spreadsheet must be a government copy. You know, the one they use to figure out tax savings.

[Roundnoser]

Okay, if you buy a pound, (or ten pounds, or whatever you'd buy) when everything is said and done at the end of the session, how many boolits do you have ready to load

ALL OF THEM!:lol:

[Ole]

If you're looking to cast to save money, it will never happen.

I got into casting to "save money". I haven't saved a nickel, but I sure get to shoot a lot more. :Fire:

Another big plus is you get to insulate yourself against future component costs. Lead is a lot cheaper to hoard/stockpile than ready-to-shoot bullets are.

[carolina shooter]

if you use a Lee bottom pour, you should leave the pot at least 1/2 full. The temp of the alloy will climb,a lot, after about 1/2 of pot is used. And yes I always want to pour more, but temps are to high and I don't want to change my settings all the time...HAPPY CASTING.

[geargnasher]

I saved money casting my own many years ago, when large amounts of WW were free for the taking and I cast on my propane stove with Lee moulds and some thrift store pots and spoons. I also cast for ONE pistol and lubed with a tumble lube concoction of cooked-down Turtle Wax and Liquid Alox. Pretty much been expensive since then, but not nearly as expensive as hanging out in bars buying drinks for loose women or pouring money into my hotrods and 4X4s. I have an order of magnitude more money invested in my metalworking and woodworking tools than in my entire reloading and casting outfit.

Gear

[Jammer Six]

Huh. I've gotten my best loads (for reloading! Stop that!) from loose women in bars.

If it weren't for loose women in bars, some of us would never...

...well, never mind.

[Echo]

Luckily lead is not a precious metal, if it was then it would be measured and traded in Troy ounces/pounds. Therefore a precious metal like Gold weighs 10 Troy ounces to the pound or 10.96 ounces Avoirdupois weight (the one we are all used to).

I believe not. I believe a pound is a pound is a pound - it's only ounces that are different.Ten troy ounces equals 16 avoirdupois ounces.

I theeenk...

[mroliver77]

You can get lead for $1.00 lb delivered at times. I was selling some scrap at the yard and asked the owner about brass and lead. He had bought a bunch from the widow of a caster. Nice smelted WW ingots for $.65 lb. I didn't need any but bought 100 lbs anyhow.
He had a Gaylord box with a couple feet deep of brass casings for $1.50 lb. I would say 80-90% 9mm though and it was not worth the hassle for me to buy, sort and rescrap the 9mm.

I put the word out that I am interested in buying lead. I have friends and acquaintances drop off 5lbs here, 10 lbs there etc. Most want nothing for it as I try to help everybody and most feel they "owe" me one. I have bought lead flashing from roofers. I pay what the scrap yard pays if they deliver it. You can save a lot if patient.

Like has been said it is much cheaper than bars, hot rods, Harleys etc. Heck a lot of people have 4 wheelers , golf carts, Gators or such that cost more than all my loading casting tools put together!

I never had to ask my wife about such things. She understood that most of the $$ in the marriage went for her benefit like house,nice cars, furniture, kids, curtains, appliances, clothes etc, etc. Me I am happy in the shop with a microwave, hotplate, coffee pot and a recliner. My goal is to get set up with a shower, clothes washer/dryer and efficiency type living quarters in my barn. I will rent out my farm house.
J

[Jammer Six]

I never had to ask my wife about such things. She understood that most of the $$ in the marriage went for her benefit...
Yes.

I imagine that, like most men who would make that claim, you view that state of affairs as a good thing and are completely satisfied with it, imagining nothing better, so I congratulate you on a job well done.