Boolits for1:28 twist

[subsonic]

Which conicals shoot best out of a 1:28 twist with 80gr or higher hunting type loads?

[swheeler]

I can only speak for 50 cal, the TC 370 gr maxiball, never had much luck with the minie in 1-28

[Larry Gibson]

I can only speak for 50 cal, the TC 370 gr maxiball, never had much luck with the minie in 1-28

+1. I cast mine with 16-1 alloy, lube the bottom groove with my own lube (beeswax/olive oil) and load over 90(V) of ffg Tripp 7. Runs 1550 fps with excellent accuracy out of my TC Blk Mtn Magnum .50 cal.

Photo is 6 shots w/o cleaning or wiping between shots (1 down the tube and 5 from the speed loaders) at 100 yards.

Larry Gibson

[Underclocked]

UC Shorts pictured in my avatar. ;)

[subsonic]

What ratio of wax to lube?

Where do you get that mould?

[Chill Wills]

Subsonic, 28 twist yes, but what caliber? It will make a difference.

Larry Gibson, Words cannot express how good it is to see blue steel and walnut (or maple) on a ML. You probably shoot that old type gun powder too…![smilie=1:

[excess650]

nope, Larry's shooting 777

[swheeler]

+1. I cast mine with 16-1 alloy, lube the bottom groove with my own lube (beeswax/olive oil) and load over 90(V) of ffg Tripp 7. Runs 1550 fps with excellent accuracy out of my TC Blk Mtn Magnum .50 cal.

Photo is 6 shots w/o cleaning or wiping between shots (1 down the tube and 5 from the speed loaders) at 100 yards.

Larry Gibson

Nice! I'd hunt anything that walks here with that.

[Chill Wills]

nope, Larry's shooting 777

You did not have to tell me that. And I was so happy too.[smilie=s:

[idahoron]

I like a Paper patched 500 S&W bullet with 80 gr of Pyrodex P. Sub 2" groups at 100 yards with a peep sight. I have seen several deer and antelope killed with this bullet they put the smack down. Ron

[swheeler]

I like a Paper patched 500 S&W bullet with 80 gr of Pyrodex P. Sub 2" groups at 100 yards with a peep sight. I have seen several deer and antelope killed with this bullet they put the smack down. Ron

Ron I knew you were going to recommend that bullet PP! I still have'nt tried it, sooomeday

[subsonic]

How do you paper patch for a front stuffer?

[subsonic]

Fiddy cal!

[idahoron]

How do you paper patch for a front stuffer?

Check out the sticky above called paper patching for a ML. Ron

[mncowboy]

I use the same bullet as Ron but I don't papers patch over 80 grains of 777 ffg , also can say is awesome!! Killed2 deer this year and DRT the one was 90 yards out and hit her where I aimed. Going to more long range testing this coming year.best loading bullet I have ever put down the barrel

[Underclocked]

That mold was a special order from Lee (the UC Short mold). I think we only had 25 made so they are impossible to find now. The bullet does perform very well both in 1:24 and 1:28 twists - which is what I had in mind when I drew it up. Bullshop Dan has one of the molds so he could supply you with them.

[skullmount]

That mold was a special order from Lee (the UC Short mold). I think we only had 25 made so they are impossible to find now. The bullet does perform very well both in 1:24 and 1:28 twists - which is what I had in mind when I drew it up. Bullshop Dan has one of the molds so he could supply you with them.


:bigsmyl2:

I have 1 also & can say the bullets they drop are shooters

[tacklebury]

385 gr. Great Plains bullet w/ 85 grains FFFg Goex is my bullet. ;)

[jdmudcat]

I have had good results in my American Knight using a Lee 320 grain R.E.A.L. boolit and 80 - 90 grains of pyrodex RS

JD

[saz]

Look into No Excuses Bullets. I have used his 495gr bolits to down the moose in my avatar.

[excess650]

That mold was a special order from Lee (the UC Short mold). I think we only had 25 made so they are impossible to find now. The bullet does perform very well both in 1:24 and 1:28 twists - which is what I had in mind when I drew it up. Bullshop Dan has one of the molds so he could supply you with them.

Do you have a drawing so that it can be duplicated?

[Underclocked]

http://oi43.tinypic.com/slk9wj.jpg

The intention was to have a bullet that could be used in the Whites - a .504 land-land measurement - so there would be minimal sizing. At the time, it was said Lee was making molds a bit undersized so I asked for .507 diameter thinking they would produce something less. They did, some come out at .505 and some a bit less, making sizing more a matter of lubing for the Whites.

I wanted a good percentage of bore riding surface and this design provides that while still allowing adequate lube.

How you would dimension that would depend upon your own rifle's land-land measurement. If you go with someone that produces the exact diameter called for, you might wish to specify a few thousandths less diameter. What you want to wind up with is a bullet that is no more than .001" greater than your land-land measurement. The result is easy to load yet will still hold position in the barrel. These are easy enough to size down to .500 if needed - in near pure lead.

ps: Tom Lodge of Sunrise Archery did the group buy. I just provided the design drawing. One of the DWBs by the handle of "Batchief" was able to produce and test the bullets made from his mold first. Fired in a White, they produced one ragged hole for 5 shots at 50 yards. There have been many excellent groups shot with this bullet since - sub MOA is not at all uncommon.

[longbow]

Tom at Accurate Molds should be able to make this is whatever diameter you want to suit your bore.

Hah! I just went to add a link to Accurate Molds site and see he has a similar design in his catalogue:

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-440B-D.png

Link to site:

http://accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=8

Nice looking boolit by the way Underclocked!

Got to ask. Is there any reason the nose band isn't larger to maybe groove diameter? Just curious.

Longbow

[Underclocked]

I can't recall for certain why I chose that nose band config. It may have had more to do with the drawing program I was using than anything. In any case, it worked out. ;)

I believe this mold design is also one I had input in developing. If I'm correct, this is the mold that Ed Mehlig ordered from Accurate - he's very happy with the bullets it produces. Primarily intended for a White .451 but should also work well in most .45 inlines. http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-465M-D.png

and.... this one matches my design so closely that I think someone must have submitted my drawing to him. http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-460M-D.png Looks like he is set to go so far as making the UC Short mold. :) The way Lee produced them, the mold drops a bullet more in the range of 445 grains than the 460 associated with the picture at Accurate. Notice he doesn't specify the full diameter in that picture.

If you can read this post, you'll see when I first discovered that Tom had found my drawing somewhere http://thedwbs.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=510&p=9928&hilit=UC+Short#p9928 if not, you probably aren't a DWB. ;)

Tom also has a mold design there that is remarkably similar to a design created by Bob Bowers of Virginia. The mold is the 51-495M. I won't say it is identical as I don't recall the exact specs as originally designed, but it has to be nearly identical. Bob called the bullet design the N.E.W. - and when Batchief began making them as well, they became more widely known as the Batchief Trashcans. I don't think any of us cares so long as the bullet designs work well for folks. He might owe me and Bob a mold though. ;)

I have to ammend this, the 51-495M is NOT the same as the NEW. I failed to notice Tom is using a tapered design for that bullet.

[Larry Gibson]

Subsonic, 28 twist yes, but what caliber? It will make a difference.

Larry Gibson, Words cannot express how good it is to see blue steel and walnut (or maple) on a ML. You probably shoot that old type gun powder too…![smilie=1:

Yup, sure do, also in my .45 cal MLer....I'm down to about 4 lbs of old original DuPont FFFG left.........:-(

Larry Gibson

[longbow]

Underclocked:

I hope you didn't take my comment about the nose band as criticism, it is just curiosity on my part. The boolit undoubtedly slugs up to fill the grooves anyway.

Do you use an over powder wad or just boolit over powder?

Like I said, just curious about what others are doing and why. This is a great place to share and learn.

Nope, I am not a DWB (or not a registered one anyway).

Longbow

[Underclocked]

Yes, I almost always use a dry over powder wad when shooting conicals. I'm not tight enough to punch them out myself (or not energetic enough) so I just use the ones available from Track of the Wolf. They're very cheap anyway. I use the somewhat thicker ones so I can actually get some powder compression with just the wad and then lightly seat the conical. Works great for me ... I think the resultant load is more consistent.

No, I didn't read it as criticism. Just saw it as curiosity and I wish I could give you a better answer.

[saz]

All of my conical shooting has been with No excuses conicals- they are cheap and very accurate. They really are a beautiful boolit. Someday I will have a mold made loosely patterned after that boolit. I use them in two 50 cal muzzleloaders- remington genesis with 1:28 twist and a White Super 91 with a 1:24. Both of them are VERY accurate on top of 85grs FFG 777. I tried lubed felt wads to see if accuracy improved, but it was nominal at 100 yards so I discarded them as it adds another step in loading. Not my cup of tea of you need a follow up shot while hunting. Now the super 91 will shoot very well all the way up to 105grs with the same powder and wads, but to keep things simple I load them with the same. I have a scribe line on both ramrods that I figured out the compression with a bathroom scale so I am as consistent as possible.

Another "someday" is a Lyman GPR kit with the 1:32 twist barrel.

[Underclocked]

Here are some other examples of conicals that work beautifully in muzzleloaders. Besides, I like to post this composite pic. :) 3 of the groups were shot by me - the two mid left side and the cardboard one. One group was shot using a lead bullet produced from a Lee .457-405 mold, then sized through a .451 Lee sizer die using a hammer and dowel. That thing shot great but I've since refined my sizing technique ... but only a little. ;) The upper mid left group was the first 3 shots fired in testing Mose's new gas checked bullets as he did not have a .45 to test them in. I got the honor and I think he was pleased with the results. I know I was.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2zsbpy8.jpg

[longbow]

Nice targets! Very impressive.

I have read that for some at least the over powder wad helps accuracy. I have to think it would help seal and prevent early blow by as pressure builds and the slug is obturating (just my thought and maybe not true).

I have to ask about the gas checks. Are they used to protect the base of the boolit or are they used just because the boolit has a gas check shank? I don't think I have ever seen gas checks used over BP before. Regardless, they obviously work. Again, curiosity on my part.

I like traditional muzzleloaders but would like to have one with two barrels ~ one with fast twist for conicals and one with RB twist.

Been thinking on it a while and this is getting me rev'd up.

Longbow

[skullmount]

Nice targets! Very impressive.

I have read that for some at least the over powder wad helps accuracy. I have to think it would help seal and prevent early blow by as pressure builds and the slug is obturating (just my thought and maybe not true).

I have to ask about the gas checks. Are they used to protect the base of the boolit or are they used just because the boolit has a gas check shank? I don't think I have ever seen gas checks used over BP before. Regardless, they obviously work. Again, curiosity on my part.


Longbow

Longbow,

......not to interupt tween you and UC......I can give a thumbs up to the gas checked bullets also. The ones I have are also from Mose but for the .410 White, just over 400 grains if I remember right. Took a deer years back, 70 to 80 yards, again if memory serves me right.....in 1 side and out the other.

I use both lubed and dry wads, nothing tested, just what I could get.

[Underclocked]

I have not made any bullets using gas checks myself and the process is a little tedious as the checks have to be annealed before using. The guys that do make them set about that effort with a purpose and oftentimes had custom molds made to fit their needs. It was not a matter of the bullet requiring a check, it's what they set out to do. The idea was to make a conical of the proper size that incorporates the sealing capability of the checks to augment the obturation by the lead. Mose actually put a little tin in his boolits to better fill out the mold cavities. It turns out the check does a couple of additional positive things to one degree or another. It adds a touch of cleaning to the bore as the check expands and races over any previous lead deposits (slight effect) and it also allows the bullets to be pushed a little harder without fear of leading.

I have to say those bullets Mose created are some of the prettiest dern things I've ever seen go into a barrel. Works of art and they shoot beautifully. Mose (John Moseley) has had a very tough battle going with cancer for a few years now. I hope he is winning.

An overpowder wad also adds a bit of protection to the base of the lead conical so far as exposure to the violent and intense burn of powder.

[Underclocked]

I'll ramble a bit but this is what I've gone through more than once now. ;)

Thinking the land to land measure of my Apex .45 muzzleloader was dead on at .454", I ordered a .454 sizing die made by Lee. It sizes to exactly .454 by my micrometer measurement. I was disappointed to find this was a bit oversized for the bore of my Apex .45 and a bit harder to start than I like. Rifling engagement was substantial.

I had an extra .451 sizer die so I set about trying to enlarge it a bit. Let me tell you that is a slow and tedious process with a hand drill. I suppose I put about 3 hours into that effort using an undersized bit with emery paper wrapped around it. I would drill for awhile, then check the produced size by running a slug through the sizer. I used the same slug each time by peening it back out on both ends. I finally got to .453 and the slug would just touch the rifling of the barrel while it pushed through entirely too easily. It left no rifling marks on the slug although it was not a loose fit.

This morning, I realized I had been checking that sizer while it was still hot from the honing process. So I went out, peened the slug again (the middle of the slug is a bit undersized as a result) then ran the slug through the sizer.

Wallah!! A bit over .453, perhaps as much as .4535. I ran it through the bore of the Apex and this is the result.

http://oi43.tinypic.com/14b87lt.jpg

Again, realize the slug is smaller in the center but otherwise the rifling engagement is exactly what I was looking for. The bullet can be started with thumb pressure, takes only a small amount of force on the rod to seat, yet grips the rifling enough that it will hold position once seated in the bore.

The proof will be in the shooting of the conicals I make for this rifle and I'm not sure when the first tests will be, but at least I am now capable of making a correctly fitting conical.

[longbow]

There you go, I learned something again.

I have not heard of checks used on muzzleloader boolits (I guess I live a sheltered life) but of course no reason they would not provide similar benefits to what they do with smokeless in protecting the base of the boolit, possibly some scraping/cleaning action and providing a consistent surface to the boolit base.

Just not something I would have thought of doing due to lower pressures and velocities of BP.

Longbow

[subsonic]

So the consensus, if I'm reading this right, is that for a .50 with 1:28 twist, the boolit needs to be about 400gr or a little more? And it should be a sized for a snug press-fit on top of the lands for easy loading, but still be snug enough to stay against the powder.

Is that right?

[Underclocked]

I think that's a fair summary. I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of something in the 350 grain range also shooting very well though.

And I would add "if depending totally on the lead for obturation, then cast of the purest lead you can locate".

[samcolt87]

I've had pretty good luck shooting 320 grain REALS out of my cabelas sporterized hawken which has a 1:24 twist lubed w/ Bore butter under 80 grains of Pyrodex P. I haven't shot any game with it yet, but it looks good on paper, about 3" groups at 100 yards.

[subsonic]

I've had pretty good luck shooting 320 grain REALS out of my cabelas sporterized hawken which has a 1:24 twist lubed w/ Bore butter under 80 grains of Pyrodex P. I haven't shot any game with it yet, but it looks good on paper, about 3" groups at 100 yards.

I'm surprised they shoot that well loaded under the powder!:bigsmyl2:

[mncowboy]

What type of lube you guys use to lube them up with?got a recipe