Pat Wray's respone to my email

[PatMarlin]

****Since this thread was posted, we have learned Pat Wray is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a proponent of the anti- gun ban crowd. He's also a supporter, and most likely works for the American Hunters and Shooters Association.

AHSA is a front organization whose real goal is to eliminate the rights of gun owners by driving a wedge into the gun rights movement.

To learn more about AHSA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Hunters_and_Shooters_Association

To read Pat Wray's posts at 24hour campfire by his handle "chukar_hunter" go here:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/1285958/page/0/fpart/1

:drinks: :drinks: :drinks:

Here's the guy that played right into the hands of the anti- gunners with his Washington Post Statement...

"This shows the zealousness of gun owners to the point of actual foolishness," said Pat Wray, a freelance outdoors writer in Corvallis, Ore., and author of "A Chukar Hunter's Companion."

Wray said that what happened to Zumbo is a case study in how the NRA has trained members to attack their perceived enemies without mercy.

"For so many years, Zumbo has been a voice for these people -- for hunting and for guns -- and they just turned on him in an instant," Wray said. "He apologized all over himself, and it didn't do any good"


****Here was my email to him:

Make no mistake Pat Wray,

We are not mindless extremist sheep that are simply led by an organization such as the NRA. WE are your fathers, grandfathers, mothers and daughters, brothers and sisters, your neighbors and fellow shooters and co-workers from all walks of life that understand the importance of the Second Amendment of our Constitution.

We understand it is the right to keep and bear arms that keeps us a free and safe nation, and will from now on speak up and not set idly by and let our god given right as Americans be taken away at any level.

Obviously your chukar hunting has effected your brain, as you sir are a sellout and a direct assault on our second amendment rights.

Sincerely,

Pat Marlin


***Here's his reply to my email I received today:

Thanks for taking the time to write. You were one of many gun owners to
write to me regarding my recent statements in the Washington Post. I
understand your concern. I was not complimentary about the actions of
people involved in the Internet destruction of Jim Zumbo's career.



My feelings about those actions will not change. Those of you who took part
in the assault on Zumbo lost an opportunity to turn him around, to educate
him and to change him into an outstanding spokesman for your beliefs. He
offered, in his initial apology, to do exactly that. Instead, you went for
the jugular and completed his fall. Your action was fast, furious and, like
so many other internet-based actions, without the benefit of deliberation or
serious discussion. It was, very simply, a high tech lynching conducted by
an enraged mob. If being described as part of a lynch mob bothers you,
perhaps you should consider the description next time you are tempted to go
on the attack.



Speaking of attack, a number of you told me in no uncertain terms to expect
treatment 'like Zumbo got.' My response is this; I'm going to do what I
think is right. You should do the same. Let the chips fall where they may.



If we're going to have a serious disagreement, you should know who I am. I
have been a member of the NRA for nearly 25 years, and believe strongly in
their 2nd Amendment mission. I need them to help me protect the
semi-automatic firearms in my safe. Several of them are 'assault rifles'
beginning with my 1873 Springfield .45-70 and going forward to World War II
weapons. I also own several other semi-automatic firearms and will fight
any attempt to outlaw them. I don't own an AR 15, not because I don't
believe in our right to own them, but because I'm not impressed with the
caliber. I use a .22-250 for varmints.



I spent 20 years in the United States Marine Corps and doubt that any one of
you is more dedicated to our country or the Constitution than I am. I
oppose gun registration because I don't want the government to be able to
take my firearms. I recognize the need for an armed citizenry and intend to
be a part of it.



In short, I don't have a problem with your firearms or your right to own
them. I own them myself. I will not be a part of a divide-and-conquer
strategy aimed at gun owners. I do have a major problem with the mob
psychology some of you exhibited over the past week. It was despicable.
Period.



If you want a more complete view of my feelings on the Zumbo situation I
invite you to visit the following website.
http://gtconnect.com/articles/2007/02/25/sports/venture/1ven01_wray.txt


It is a column that came out today in the Corvallis Gazette-Times.


Sincerely,


Pat Wray



He doesn't get it. I don't know where to begin first.. :roll:

[MT Gianni]

Pat, The statement that Jim Zumbo has been a voice for all of us is key. It is how he views himself. It is however wrong as if he was a voice it was a self-appointed one and out of touch with those he claimed to be voice for. Mr Wray needs to understand this if he is appointing himself a voice for all of us. Gianni.

[PatMarlin]

This guy is a pompous tool, and what he said to the Washington Post was despicable.

I'm at my wits end with these Zumbo's. Either we all hang tough and fight for our second amendment rights or were screwed as a nation.

If that means swift internet action than so be it. STOP SCREWING WITH GUN OWNERS...ENOUGH ALREADY!!


.......:roll: :roll: :roll:

[PatMarlin]

Here's my respone I sent in regards to his article.... I've had enough of this BS:


Pat you just don't get it.

The gun owners that moved against Zumbo were not just AR owners for cryin' out loud, they/we are owners of all types of arms. You play right into the hands of the Brady anti gunners by saying it's only AR type owners who moved against Zumbo.

How dare you speak out against the NRA that you so proudly say you are a member of, then slam them and NRA members as being paranoid. Are you out of your mind? Have you not seen what has been happening to our second amendment rights in this country?

You are a pompous tool, and what you said to the Washington Post was despicable.

I'm at my wits end with you Zumbo elitist. Either we all hang tough and fight for our second amendment rights or were screwed as a nation.

If that means swift internet action than so be it. STOP SCREWING WITH GUN OWNERS...ENOUGH ALREADY!!

[leftiye]

Pat, What's this tool's email address? Why do you suppose he answered you in the Corvalis Press?

[Lee]

Pat Wray, another Brady Bunch sewer-hole opened up.
A "writer". Gee in Hollywonk they're called directors, actors, producers, whatever. He needs derailed also. Maybe then he'll learn when to open his sewer-hole and when to keep it covered.................Lee;-)

[PatMarlin]

Two separate deals.

He returned my email I sent about his washington post statement, and then he added a link to the article.

[only1asterisk]

Pat Wray is connected to the fake The American Hunters and Shooters Association.

Read more about them here: http://www.nraila.org/Hunting/Read/HuntingArticles.aspx?ID=200

David

[PatMarlin]

Well all be damned.

My discriptive word "Tool" is exactly what this dope is... :roll:

What an idiot.

[PatMarlin]

Very, very clever of the anti's to promote the lie about members becoming disillusioned with the NRA. It's working, cause I've seen it. I wonder how much of that was started by them.

That's one problem with the hearsay internet. A rumor starts and then becomes fact, like the PayPal anti gun BS. Pure internet bunk.

[PatMarlin]

I sent another email to Wray-


Read about yourself here you dumbass!!

http://www.nraila.org/Hunting/Read/HuntingArticles.aspx?ID=200

That explains everything.

[jdhenry]

Got to love the internet!!!!!!:)

[Old Ironsights]

Very, very clever of the anti's to promote the lie about members becoming disillusioned with the NRA. It's working, cause I've seen it. I wonder how much of that was started by them.


Actually, I became disilllusioned with the NRA back when they screwed Neal Knox and Joe Horn...

I still support them, and I;m still a Lifer, but IMO they are in a very real way TOO big and too much of a political/fundraising/PR machine and are, at the "top brass" level, every bit as much infected with Potomac Fever as the Congresscritters.

[PatMarlin]

Well yes, and as with any large organization there is going to be some problems and screw ups, but I'm still sticking with the NRA.


Here's Pat Wray's reply to my email this morning:

Oh my gosh! You're right! Chris Cox, that bastion of truth from the NRA
has sure nailed me. It must be nice to get all your news from such a
dependable source.
Pat


I think this guy is a flat out Brady Anti-gun proponent... :roll:

[9.3X62AL]

Full agreement with Ironsights, but I damn sure won't counter their pro-Constitutional thrust. I swore an oath to uphold and defend that document, and I still take that oath seriously--even though I'm not paid to do so any longer. I guess my perspective is broader than the 2nd Amendment--if one Amendment of the Bill of Rights gets attacked, it's an assault on the whole document. THAT scares me. To the extent that NRA defends the 2nd Amendment--they defend the U.S. Constitution--so I have a lot more in common with them than in opposition. Besides--who else ya gonna call? Nothing crafted by the mind or hand of man can be perfect, so I make allowances.

[PatMarlin]

I'm tired of this subject right now.

I wish they would just inforce the laws on the books and leave us alone. It would be nice for a change. Enough.

[Old Ironsights]

Full agreement with Ironsights, but I damn sure won't counter their pro-Constitutional thrust. I swore an oath to uphold and defend that document, and I still take that oath seriously--even though I'm not paid to do so any longer. I guess my perspective is broader than the 2nd Amendment--if one Amendment of the Bill of Rights gets attacked, it's an assault on the whole document. THAT scares me. To the extent that NRA defends the 2nd Amendment--they defend the U.S. Constitution--so I have a lot more in common with them than in opposition. Besides--who else ya gonna call? Nothing crafted by the mind or hand of man can be perfect, so I make allowances.

EXACTLY my sentiments. I swore the same Oath - and have never been released of that Oath.

I just wish our "800lb Gorilla" would be more pro gun and less pro Potomac Compromise.

[lovedogs]

I'm like Deputy and Ironsights. In fact I've suggested many times that we enforce that oath. If we kicked out all the members of Congress who were violating that oath by working to do away with our Constitution and it's Amendments we wouldn't have the problems we are having now. The reason we are having these problems is because we didn't do this. If we'd nipped it in the bud we would still be a free nation. Look what happens when we stand up and vote. All the anti's run and change their tunes. If you investigate the real reasons for their ideologies it all boils down to cowardice. If Col. Cooper were still here he could put it more eloquently, but you get the idea. As we all know, if you stand up to a cowardly bully he'll back down. But we let them get into our legislatures. How do we get rid of them? Well, I've got my own ideas on that but will keep quiet and let you guess what I'd do about them. A hint... there are plenty of countries who welcome cowards and anarcists.

[drinks]

Pat and anyone else who would like to help in keeping criminal alien invaders out, just search "numbersusa.com".
I sent 2 faxes to my senators in the last 5 minutes.

[Lee]

This gets more interesting by the day. It seems the more that you poke the Beast, the more he reveals his true colors. A deafening silence coming from all the other "writers" out there. The last I looked this was a free forum. Doesn't cost anything to post here. So why do WE have to chase the writers down, much Like Frankensteins monster? Probably because they're closet-antis, not willing to be "outed" yet.....................Just my $0.02..................Lee;)


P.S. Chris Cox isn't trying to dismantle the 2nd amendment, sounds like Pat Wray is.

[PatMarlin]

This gets more interesting by the day. It seems the more that you poke the Beast, the more he reveals his true colors. A deafening silence coming from all the other "writers" out there. The last I looked this was a free forum. Doesn't cost anything to post here. So why do WE have to chase the writers down, much Like Frankensteins monster? Probably because they're closet-antis, not willing to be "outed" yet.....................Just my $0.02..................Lee;)


P.S. Chris Cox isn't trying to dismantle the 2nd amendment, sounds like Pat Wray is.

I have second that.

[tom barthel]

Don't know or CARE who the pat wray clown is. He doesn't speak for me and NEVER will. ANY person who opens themselves for public scrutiny may be scrutinized. I will NOT spend ANY of my money supporting someone to help them destroy MY rights.

[Bigjohn]

Most Esteemed Gentlemen of the Silver Stream;

Please don't shoot the messenger! [smilie=1:

I have sat here over the past few days and read the various posts in this and other threads on the ZUMBO/WRAY issue and passed some comments on certain aspects of it. What follows is MY thoughts on the present situation.

While the situation here in Australia is stable at the moment, there is always simmering just below the surface, the forces of those who for their own reason oppose the private ownership/use of firearms for any reason. They again reared their heads last year on the tenth anniversary of the 'Port Arthur Massacre'.
We each for our own reasons believe we have the right to "Bear Arms" no matter what type they be.

Some Writers, (ZUMBO/WRAY/Others) for their own reasons appear to be ignorant and or misinformed about the various shooting disciplines, which as a whole form the shooting sports.
IMHO; I would have attempted to inform these writers of their errors and have them print and article to counter the damage they have done. Failing that; then mount the campgain to have them removed from their positions.

I have found over the years of corresponding with people on the subject, that a firm non-abusive or threatening langauge should be used, as these people are very adept at turning it around to use it against you.

Comments about the NRA not fully representing it's members as it should (if that is a correct understanding of the situation) should be fixed with the Association.
As to the AHSA; if what is being printed about it is true; why not ask WRAY to investigate it rather than accusing him of being a 'Turncoat'.

I also believe that some writers can become rather parochial about THEIR chosen shooting dicipline. No matter how parochial they are; I still believe their opinions can be changed or educated. If not, mount a campgain to remove them.

At one community meeting in 1996, as we were 'fighting' to keep our semi-auto rifles and shotguns, plus our pump-action shotguns; (a fight we lost), I educated a couple of members of another shooting discipline who stated during the meeting that there was no sporting target use for them. They left that meeting aware of the damage their comments had done.

We as shooters will always be countering the misinformation put out there in the public by such misinformed and malicious persons. We must always be ready to educate and inform the misguided, rather than initially forming the 'lynch mob' and baying for blood.

John.

[leftiye]

So let's back 'em down!

[drinks]

Bigjohn;
Is there a possibility the present firearms situation in OZ is due to the willingness of the shooters and hunters in OZ to let the authorities get by with whatever the unwashed masses of blissninnies wanted?
I really do not see the virtue of bending over and applying KY, your self.

[dakotashooter2]

What happened to Zumbo was a long time a coming. Not neccessarily to him personally but to those appointed or self proclaimed "representatives" of the hunters and shooters. Especially the ones who have lost touch or have become politicaly correct. It was destined to happen and unfortunatly for Zumbo he was the one caught in the middle. Gun owners and hunters fed up with being betrayed and misrepresented by those in a position to positively represent us in the media, finally lashed out. Nugent would be prowd of us. Yes it was a lynching.....one that was far overdue. Sometimes it takes drastic measures to make people listen and you can bet the impact has caught the attention of each and every high profile person in the sporting industry right now. You can bet it has also caught the attention of and supprised the anti gun crowd. Maybe it will also awaken the ranks of the hunters and shooters to realize that they are a force beyond that of the NRA and it is time to use that power. I hope our congressional delegates are watching and listening. They get their power from those who shout the loudest and it may be our time to shout.

:castmine:

[Bigjohn]

No one ever likes to apply the KY jelly when it comes to losing our hard won firearms. Here in OZ, we are blessed with two political parties; both as bad as each other on the private ownership of firearms.

We are continually vigilant in regards to what they are up to.

In 1996, despite the massed rallies which clogged the streets of several cities, the mail assault on the members of parliment and other tatics; we still got sh@$ted! This Pollie believes religiously that he has a mandate and is allegedly willing to use financial blackmail against the states to get what he wants. It is his personal crusade and as each year goes past he displays more arrogance towards the Australian Public.

Despite promises, even if the current opposition was elected they rarely reverse any Act passed by the previous government. This will not change until WE the people can take back OUR government from the forces of evil who control it at present; the vocal minorities.
We have effectively a two party system which go to the elections on an almost equal footing of around 40% of the voters each; the approaches/promises made to the groups representing the other 20%, is what can get them over the line.

Their ultimate plan is to whittle us down discipline by discipline, hence the need as I see it to educate these members and writers who support other disciplines. If they are not prepared to listen and learn then............ZUMBO them.

Forever vigilant,
John.

[drinks]

Bigjohn;
We have some cities and even a couple of states where the vocal minorities are actually in the majority.
Our Constitution is in much jeopardy due to people who have no honor or honesty and some very rich people who want to be part of a world dictatorship, under the UN.
George Soros is one of the worst.

[Bigjohn]

drinks;
It is a bad thing when those that lust after the power (IMO), fear most, the armed private citizen who could stand in their way.

I firmly believe what someone else has posted in one of these threads on this subject, Quote "An armed person is a citizen, an unarmed one is a subject."

I also value one of TZU's statements, "If you want peace, then prepare for war."

And I firmly believe WE must be prepared to fight them with everything we have, before resorting to .....
Pen and Paper or the internet are a good start.

We do not have a Constitution such as the US and they continually deny that ours has any link back to the Magna Carta. There are some schools of thought which says it does!

:coffee:
John.