Heater core leak

[btroj]

I have a bad feeling I know the answer but do any of the stop leak products work very well for a small heater core leak? My 01 Dodge pickp is steaming up my windows. Mechanic said a replacement heater core involves mucho labor to take out the dash.
I prefer not to spend huge bucks on a repair but need to get another year or 2 from the darn thing.

Gear, are you out there?

[Bullwolf]

Might not be the answer you are looking for, but you can always bypass the heater core. Of course that means you won't have a heater in the truck this time of the year if you do that, but if money is tight....

I have had poor results with stop leak products. Sometimes you get lucky for a little while with them. Other times they give up the ghost at the worst possible time, or at the most inconvenient moment for you.


- Bullwolf

[Tom-ADC]

Bars Leak Liquid Aluminum in a pinch. Old days we'd use a lot of course ground pepper.

[MtGun44]

When they make a front engined water cooled car, I think they hang a heater core on a
hook and start building outward from that.

Usually a LOT of labor to get one out and back in. New core, hoses and all associated
connections that could go bad in the future would be good to replace at the same time.

Bill

[Muddy Creek Sam]

I have a bad feeling I know the answer but do any of the stop leak products work very well for a small heater core leak? My 01 Dodge pickp is steaming up my windows. Mechanic said a replacement heater core involves mucho labor to take out the dash.
I prefer not to spend huge bucks on a repair but need to get another year or 2 from the darn thing.

Gear, are you out there?


Just had to pull the dash out of my 01 Ram, Is your dash intact or is it a normal 01. Took less than 2 hrs. Had to replace the Air controller on the bottom of the air handler. It is easy if the dash is all in pieces like mine was.:roll:

Sam :D

[stubshaft]

Bypassing it is the way to go! Like MtGun44 said replacing it is a nightmare, I wrenched for a number of years the heater and evap cores in cars seem to be where they build out from.

[Bad Water Bill]

I have been using Bars leak for OVER 50 years and it has never let me down. Worked in a garage 1/2 of that time and many many tubes went into radiator and heaters without an issue.

It used to be that a car was designed so that the common man could repair his own car. Today most of us can not even SEE a spark plug let alone replace one. :groner:

From what I hear the average GOOD mechanic must spend at least a grand each year on specialty tools to work on your car.

To many designers and not enough mechanics helping in the design of the new cars.

[starmac]

I am not a fan of patching one, but the bars leak with the pellets in it is what I have had the best luck with, except maybe waterglass, and I don't know if you can even get it anymore.

[AkMike]

The additives are just a temporary band aid.
If you want a cheap and easy down and dirty permanent fix, there isn't one. If it's just for heat and not defrost you can bypass it and put a remote heater behind the seat.

[Russell James]

Pour some egg white into the radiator.......seals good !

[bigjason6]

I had the same problem with the windows fogging up on my 2000 Camaro. The stop leak would work for a couple weeks and it would just start leaking again. You'll just be better off biting the boolit and just replacing the heater core.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Short of replacing the core, the best stop leak ever is a tablespoon of ginger from SWMBO's spice cabinet. Did you ever notice the brown stuff in the bottom of a new jug of antifreeze?
That's right, its ginger, the same stuff squished into pellets in "stop leak"
The only trouble with any "stop leaks" method is when you fix it right later, you really should flush out the entire cooling system to get rid of the sludge

[Bad Water Bill]

Some of the vehicles I used Bars leak on continued to run for well over 100K after the treatment without another leak.

It depends on what shape the radiator is in when you decide to do something about the leak and what else you have dumped in there before.

[Recluse]

It's been my (unfortunate) experience that when a heater core or evaporative core issue comes up, there is no quick or easy or cheap fix.

I always budgeted myself a weekend or a couple of days off, read and re-read my service manuals, assembled the necessary tools and bit the boolit and replaced it.

By FAR the overwhelming cost in R/R'ing a heater core is the shop labor.

And with good reason.

:coffee:

[waksupi]

Find a Haines manual, see if it is something you can do yourself. In older vehicles, it was pretty easy. In newer stuff, they have a bunch of stuff crammed under the dash.

[HeavyMetal]

dependson the vehicle as well!

my old mustang no air dropped in and out in less than a half hour.

Girl friends 89 ranger needs a heater core manual says about an hour cost about 22 bucks at Pep Boys for the core.

Pep Boys want 280 plus parts to do it for me! Think I'll do it sunday morning.

Myself!

as for stop leaks? Never had one work more than a fewdays but i have had them plug up radiators!

buy the core do the work yourself.

[starmac]

Some of the old ones were quick and easy, and some took a half of a day and were a pain.
Some of the old lincolns, the heater core came with a template to draw your cutout and a slightly larger piece of sheetmetal to cover the hole back up, even came with four sheetmetals screws. lol

[GaryN]

I'd probably look at the manual (buy one if need be) and see how much work it was. I hate taking things to the shop. Most of the time I feel I do a better job. But there are things I don't want to tackle. My older ford's heater core came out from under the hood. It wasn't too hard. I don't have a garage and this time of year is hard to work on stuff.

[starmac]

I am looking at the heater core section of the professional chiltons. i am a pretty nice guy, but I doubt I would do this for under 500 bucks on that dodge. When you get to that heater core the only thing between you and the engine will be the firewall. It even tells you on the parts that you need an assistant to help with.
Now i need to check on a 95 and see if they are this hard as I have a friends that I think is partially stopped up.

[Bad Water Bill]

I have used Haines and Chilton for many years then I found out about Bentley. It will cost more but is worth every penny,

I had both of the others when I started restoring my 1981 VW pickup diesel. I went on line and found a used one at about 1/2 price,

The only thing the Chilton has is what time the mechanic WILL charge for each job. It does NOT matter how much time he took. 1/4-2X does not matter you pay what is in the book.

[starmac]

I have the professional guide, not the cheap chilton,but it isn't the labor guide, so no times.
It has probably a 100 page heater core section and tells you every bolt and wire that has to be removed and disconnected. There will be no steering column wires or even a hood latch or ebrake left attached when you finally remove the heater core. Why anything was designed like this is beyond me, there is a bunch of engineers laughing still.

[blackbike]

If you use bars leak, you can buy a radiator cap that holds less pressure.
Liquid glass is to be used with water only.
Stoped up heater core can be flushed in place with a water hose. disconect both hoses and flush backwards (from normal flow)

[Bad Water Bill]

Think about this. If a mechanic gets $50.00 per hour the dealer probably charges $125.00

In the old days you could fine tune your car by watching the antenna. Today the dealer probably spends $25,000.00 for a piece of equipment to set your timing and reprogram the computer chip for the fuel injector. Next year he will have to do it all over again.

These changes have been going on since the 60s and it is only going to get worse.

[PatMarlin]

Some of the old ones were quick and easy, and some took a half of a day and were a pain.
Some of the old lincolns, the heater core came with a template to draw your cutout and a slightly larger piece of sheetmetal to cover the hole back up, even came with four sheetmetals screws. lol

THat's what I did on mine. The shops wanted a fortune to replace the thing, and went on and on about what a job it was. Even the dealership.

I took an air powered thin cutoff wheel cut out the plastic kick panel so I could see what was going on. Then marked it to make a nice cut opening, big enough to get access and pulled the core. Installed a new one, then fabricated a nice aluminum sheet metal cover, screwed it in and was done.

Only took an hour or so. These are the little profit bits of engineering done as revenue generators for auto manufacturers. They could have easily solved the problem.

[Bret4207]

I suggest you check the owner repair forums for that year truck. Chances are there is a Dodge owner somewhere, or 15 of them, that have come up with low cost, faster ways to get the job done, just like Pat did in the post above. I have 2 F150 forums bookmarked for just such help.

[bobthenailer]

Im a retired auto tech , and IMO go to a GM dealer and get ther cooling system sealing tablets, theres i think 5 in a package , they are a organic sealer . crush some tabs in a container into a powder and slowley pour in the powder while the engine is running at operating temp and thermostat is open {water circulating through rad} you want to have a even mix not clumps of sealer in rad. then run engine for about 30 min with rad cap off so it doesent build pressure to blow out the sealer . then install a 7 lb rad cap to keep the pressure lower in the rad .
the normal cap usually keeps 14 to 17 lbs pressure in the cooling system when hot .

[firefly1957]

If you use temporary seal (bar leak etc) get a no pressure radiator cap so it will hold better.

Best bet is to replace it but I do not know your abilities or what tools you have and to have a shop do it is expensive.

[btroj]

I have basically no auto repair abilities or knowledge. Other than changing my own oil I just don't mess with my vehicles. I don't even do my own oil changes any more, just don't have the time or the interest. I view vehicles as noting more than transportation and a pain in the ****.
Mechanic I use, who I trust entirely, recommended a sealer. He was up front about the labor involved. Said he has done a trick like mine in the past and like someone else here said it involved removing the entire dash to get at the darn thing.
It can't be a very big leak as I get only a fine fog on the windshield after a time with the engine running. No water or droplets at all. It has left a very fine film on the inside of the windshield but I have been noticing this for a few months.

This just proves my feeling that vehicles are a money pit- just a hole in the ground to shovel money into. I also think the manufacturers may design stuff to increase the labor rates for the dealerships. That certainly wouldn't amaze me a bit. The car company makes a car, once you own it they no longer care.

[cajun shooter]

I worked in a raditor shop after breturing home from the Army and R&R many heater cores. If your leak is small them one of the good raditor sealers will work if you follow the directions.
The above answers are full of correct information. Depending on your ability to handle the project it can be done fairly fast.
You will have to use a tool like the Roto-Zip to cut away a panel to gain easy access and then fabricate a piece of aluminum panel to replace it.
The bad thing about any stop leak product is that they may also stop up any small water jacket casting but if using a lower pressure cap you will be fine.
Heater cores are just small radiators in your dash and have both inlet and outlet lines. These lines are accessible from under the hood and to stop your leak you just cut into the inlet line and install a turn off valve. This will stop the leak until you decide the next move. This may be done in 30 minutes or less.
You may also purchase the cores for less than retail at many on line automotive sites. The price of the repair is over 50% labor.
Depending on how long you expect to keep the vehicle you may want to consider a used one from a salvage yard.
To the person who spoke of the Black pepper, I did that on a 1951 Chevrolet. Every time I drove it the strong smell of the pepper would fill the car. It did however stop the leak.

[DLCTEX]

The recommendations of using a less poundage radiator cap can lead to loss of coolant in most cars today as they are designed to run at higher temps. My truck runs at 210* normal operating temp. Put a 7 lb. cap on it and you'll lose fluid.

[bearcove]

Cars are made to be disposable not fixed. They want to sell you a new one.

[btroj]

Cars are made to be disposable not fixed. They want to sell you a new one.

Ain't that the truth!

[starmac]

I just bought a new complete radiator for a dodge pickup. 138 total out the door. There is no way I would even consider using a salvage heater core when you have to remove the complete dash, steering column and wiring harness to install a new one.

[geargnasher]

Sheesh! Thirty posts in a day!

The most important question is what year exactly is your truck? The half-ton trucks from 2001 back to 1994 and 2002 3/4-ton and 1-ton back to 1994 are essentially the same as far as dash design goes. Does your truck have air conditioning? If it does, you will have to evacuate it and disconnect the hoses at the evaporator core (firewall side) in order to remove the HVAC box so you can get to the screws on the bottom side, split the box, and remove the heater core. That means you have to use a refrigerant recycle machine to recover the R-134a and relieve the static pressure (around 70-120 psi depending on temperature) so you can safely disconnect the hoses, and then suction the system back down and recharge it with the exact proper amount when you're done.

The newer trucks are the same, but much worse to pull the dash out of. The plastic that the older style dashes are made out of plastic that has, by now, become exactly the consistency and strength of peanut brittle, and the entire top shell of the dash will shatter to pieces if you disturb it. The knee bolsters and entire steering column must be removed, all electrical and vacuum connections (and the antenna plug way up inside the passenger kick panel) unplugged, the bolts along the bottom of the windshield by the defrost vents removed, the bolts on the ends of the dash loosened, the ABS module cover and module must be removed to expose and remove the dash support bracket on the transmission tunnel, then the dash can be removed as a unit. Once the dash is out, remove the nuts from the studs on the HVAC case on the engine side of the firewall, remove the heater hoses (slit them and get new ones), the evaporator connections, the defrost and floor ducting, and remove the HVAC case. Flip it over and take out the thirty bazillion screws, separate the halves, remove the old heater core, and then spend the rest of the day trying to make the aftermarket core fit the case and seal properly. I can do the whole job in about six to seven hours with AC, for a "shadetree" level mechanic, about a day and a half, for an inexperienced person I'd say don't even try. If you don't have or have access to an AC recycling machine with a GOOD vaccum pump and the truck has AC, forget it.

The dash cover on the older trucks is about $600-800 depending on the source, and takes an additional hour or so to swap out from the dash frame. If it hasn't broken already, it WILL break when it's removed, I guarantee it.

If you have a newer than 2002 truck, i.e. the "DR" body style, take it to a pro. A GOOD pro that you can trust, because most "mechanics" will have a handfull of leftover screws when the job is done, and might not take very good care of electrical plugs and correct routing of things, so you will be left with a host of rattles and future electrical problems, not to mention broken trim panels and scratches/dings on everything.

Gear

[Finster101]

Gear, as a professional tech I thank you for your post. Unless you are darn handy this is not a home job.

[btroj]

And that Gear is about what the guy I go to said. He said the dash wouldn't go back in very well, I mentioned it is already cracked. He said he has done them before and it is a 7 plus hour job. He said his willing to do the job but he recommended I try Alumaseal first.
I know better than to take on a job like this, I leave that to guys who actually know what they are doing.

Thisis an 01 Ram 1500. Like I said, the dash is already cracked. Can't imagine it would take kindly to being removed.

I just don't need a car payment right now, I already have two!

As long as I can keep the leak under control so it doesn't slowly fog my windshield I can love. The heat isn't that important but being able to see sure is.

Thanks for a concise and precise answer Gear. Somehow I figured you would know........

[Fredx10sen]

Bars Leak Liquid Aluminum in a pinch. Old days we'd use a lot of course ground pepper.

+1 yep!

[Blammer]

I'd use bars leak, good stuff.

the no pressure radiator cap, may not be suitable. Most vehicles now days require that the cooling system be under some sort of pressure.

Many many fixes for overheating cooling systems is, a NEW radiator cap. Yep, a new one that will keep pressure like it's suppose to and that fixes the problem.

[scrapcan]

Also good to mention that it may be other than a leak of antifreeze, are you absolutely sure it is loosing coolant?

You could have a/c issues like lost/leaking seal in pump. Make sure it is antifreeze and not something else. your a/c also operates when you use the defroster.

[geargnasher]

Brad, I dislike any sort of cooling system sealer because it gets where you don't want it (like in the inlets to the cooling tubes in the radiator) and seldom gets where you DO want it. That being said, there is one more thing you can try. Essentially it involves isolating the core from the rest of the cooling system, flushing it out with a garden hose, then flushing with a citric acid solution, filling the core with a head-gasket sealer (not the powdered aluminum junk, but the liquid-type sealers for cracked heads/blown head gaskets that require heat and pressure to set) and HOT water, and pressurizing it to about 15 PSI for an hour or so, rinsing out the sealer, and re-connecting the core back into the system. The concept is to clean out the junk and prep the pitted metal for the sealer and treat it with a concentrated sealer under pressure without getting much of the sealer in the rest of your cooling system. Installing long hoses to the core with a valve in the end of each and a way to hook regulated compressed air and a gauge to one end is essential to the process. A funnel and rubber gloves is also essential to prevent scalding yourself when filling the core with hot water/sealer.

Even doing that, you'll have some coolant residue in the bottom of your HVAC box that might haze the windshield for some time to come. I'd recommend a really good cleaning of the inside of your windshield with ammonia solution (or REAL Windex, if you can find any) and treat it with RAIN-X just like you would on the outside to help with this, since there's no way to flush that part of the HVAC housing without knowing exactly where to drill a hole in it and flush with a small tube.

Gear

[geargnasher]

One more thing about sealers. In the "good ol' days", cooling systems were simple, designed by engineers familiar with the laws of thermodynamics and gravity, and usually had very low or zero-pressure caps. Radiators were larger and had bigger cooling tubes, therefore were more difficult to stop up. The old systems didn't have a variety of bypasses, crossovers, throttle-body coolers, de-gas bottles, recovery tanks, or complex cooling passages and steam vents. Nowdays, it's damn near impossible to get a sealer to the leak without it getting caught somewhere else in the maze and causing even more problems.

To top it all off, we're talking (on a 01 Ram 1500 with a gas engine, probably a 5.2L) a 16 PSI system with aluminum radiator and heater core. 16 PSI is a lot of pressure. It's also a lot harder to seal aluminum than copper or brass because aluminum has a much higher coefficient of thermal expansion. That means when it gets hot it grows more, and this additional movement makes it tough to keep granular sealers in place.

I think "Liquid Glass" (IIRC) is a brand of head sealer I've used before with success in my own vehicles for heater core leaks, and it does work if you do it right, but the only way I found to make sure it actually gets to the core in any concentration is to isolate and pressurize the core, and the acid cleaning helps a lot. Most commercial cooling system cleaners are citric acid-based, it's the only thing that will remove lime deposits and not eat up the aluminum components of the cooling system.

If all else fails, just cut the hoses off the core and hook them together with a $2 barb splice and a couple of 5/8" hose clamps. You won't have heated defrost, or any other cabin heat, but it will stop the leak. DO NOT install a valve in-line with the heater hoses to shut off the heater, doing so in a modern, high-pressure system can cause excessive heat buildup in the heads before the thermostat gets hot due to the impaired cold-circuit circulation. If you must bypass the core, do it with a splice so the cooland can flow through the heater circuit and get heat to the thermostat so it will open when it's supposed to, instead of after you've overheated and warped your cylinder heads.

Gear

[starmac]

I had great luck with liquid glass, on vehicles and farm tractors, but like you sat the older stuff was run a lot cooler and way less pressure. We did use it on cracked heads and bad head gaskets, which would have been pressureized, and it stays liquid until it hits air when it comes out. these older motors were slower turning to for the most part. You get it at the drugstore, instead of a partshouse, if it is still available. It will come in a quart canning jar.

[geargnasher]

Starmac, you mean "water glass"? I was referring to the commercially available stuff for sealing (particularly) import 4-cylinders with cracked heads or blown gaskets. Is water glass (sodium silicate) the same thing? I always wondered what was in the liquid sealers, maybe that's it.

Gear

[Recluse]

I did the heater-core only sealant on the kid's *** Ford Escape a few years ago.

Going in an removing and replacing the heater core was simply not an option. Anyone who's ever (tried to) work on a Ford Escape knows why. (Just to GET TO the back three plugs on the six-cylinder engine, you have to remove the throttle body assembly and the entire intake manifold. . . JUST TO REPLACE THREE LOUSY, STINKING SPARK PLUGS! And all of that is EASY compared to what you have to do to get to the heater core on this ***.)

It's a doable job for someone who has limited mechanical abilities, but again, I'd suggest budgeting an entire day for it. Worst thing you can do is rush or get frustrated, and that usually happens when you don't give yourself enough time (or have the right tools for the job).

Did it work?

Worked well enough for me to get rid of the damned vehicle a few months later.

Oh, and the Ford shop wanted almost $3000 to R&R the heater core. Of course, they also quoted me $1400 for a tune-up (plugs and coils and O2 sensors).

I'll get drunk, smear my nekkid body with Obama bumper stickers and have a week-long orgy with Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton before I'll ever even CONSIDER buying or owning another Ford Escape.

:coffee:

[starmac]

So Recluse what did you think of your ford escape. lol

[Muddy Creek Sam]

I get water glass from the local Ceramic supply shop, use it to seal brass Shot shells.

Sam :D

[Recluse]

So Recluse what did you think of your ford escape. lol

It was the kid's first vehicle. She picked it out. She thought it was cute. She liked it. . . until I made her start working on it with me.

The tune-up was bad enough. She had gotten her first job and volunteered to pay for the parts if I'd do the work and show her how to do other things like the change the oil, brakes, etc.

She'd helped me do the same stuff on my Chevy truck and thought it would be the same on that *** Escape.

That was the first eye opener. Then came the heater core, the shop estimate, and then I made her read the shop manual and see everything we'd have to do. That's when she asked me if we could just fix it enough to sell it.

I'm not real keen on Ford products anyhow, with a few exceptions. Their engineering just flat sucks from the late 70's to the present when it comes to working on the vehicles.

I've always believed engineers should have to work on the vehicles they design.

:coffee:

[Iowa Fox]

Some of the vehicles I used Bars leak on continued to run for well over 100K after the treatment without another leak.

It depends on what shape the radiator is in when you decide to do something about the leak and what else you have dumped in there before.

Bar leak does a good job and will not clog. It depends on the leak but if it is small it should seal it. Like Bill, I have seen a lot of vehicles and equip go for a long time without another leak. Again Bill is correct about the condition of the coolant and what has been dumped in before.

They make two versions, the pellets in the molasses juice and solid pellets. The solids pellets are usually too big to go thru the necks on newer radiators.

Over the years I saw dealerships that had sevice letters that instructed them to install a couple bars leak pellets before failure. Some mfg's were adding the pellets on the assembly line before adding coolant on new vehicles to prevent any possible leaks on start up.

You have only a few bucks to loose trying it but remember what Bill said about coolant condition and what has been added before!! I prefer the pellets in the sticky molasses juice and follow the instructions on the container. It will turn to coolant black but will not hurt a thingo

The steering column has to be dropped on some vehicles just to get a heat core out.

Retired Service Manager

[geargnasher]

I used to make my living working on nothing but Fords at the dealership, and in the independent repair world I STILL made my living working on Fords. It's only a half-joke among techs that if it weren't for Ford, we'd all have starved to death a long time ago. You can always count on one to break down and get towed to the shop when times are tough and the bays are empty. Ford hit some home runs from time to time, but their engineers really fall short when it comes to details such as neat and orderly pathways for wiring, hoses, tubing, fastener placement, etc. I can't count the times I've run into a situation where, if the engineers had moved just ONE bolt over 1/8", it would have saved several hours of teardown and removal of other parts to get a part off. But they don't work on them, so they don't care. In truth, just about all the makes are becoming that way. The Lincoln MKZ and Ford Fusion are notable exceptions, those cars are generally designed really well from a mechanic's perspective, but most repairs for an average Joe would still be like me trying to work on the space shuttle.

The Escape is entirely a Mazda creation, not Ford's. In some ways that's even worse. If you want to have some REAL fun, replace the spark plugs on a double-overhead cam 5.4L Lincoln Navigator with rear heat. You have to spend half a day removing the power distribution center, PCM, TCM, wiring harnesses, PCV hose, drain the cooling system and remove the wad of heater hoses/control valves just so you can physically get the back two passenger side coils out of the heads, then build your spark plug socket up with three, two-inch extensions one at a time to get to the plug down in the bottom of the hole. It takes 7" of extensions to reach the plug, but there is only 3" of room between the valve cover and the cowl sheet metal. When you're done with that (minimum 4 hours for a seasoned tech using air tools, the flat rate is 3.6 hours, still haven't figured out how the labor guides came up with that), go try to pull the plugs out of a 2004 or newer Triton 3-valve Ford engine. They have some stupid newfangled design of a plug that sticks the electode in the head, and when you unscrew it, the tip pulls out and breaks off in the head. After you break all eight of them, you can either pull the heads or use the specially-made, $700 kit that extracts the broken tips. It takes two full days to extract and replace all eight, and about the same time to cycle the heads, so it's a coin-flip. If you haven't offed yourself by then, you're ready to put a set of plugs and coil boots in a Lincoln LX, but wait, you have to pull the valve covers and replace the gaskets and spark plug tube seals first, since oil leaking into the tubes and shorting the coil leads is the reason it came in for a tuneup to begin with. Pulling the valve covers is akin to lacing a boot with one hand while your arm is through a 2' length of 5" sewer pipe, while standing on your head. And everyone loves to gripe about how expensive vehicle repairs have become. Trust me, for what automotive technicians have to do just to replace parts (much less give an honest, thorough, and accurate diagnosis) it would still be cheap at twice the labor rate most shops charge.

Gear

[btroj]

YEs Gear, it is a 16 lb system, at least that is what the radiator cap says.

Water glass is the same as sodium silicate. A pharmacy I worked in as an intern sold lots of it for sealing radiators! That was back in 90-91 so cars have changed some since then. Fixture the older cars at the point were late 70s to early 80s models.

A new vehicle is just not an option right now. Kid getting ready to go to college, 2 car payments. I jut don't have the funds. If it keeps leaking I will jut have my mechanic do a bypass like Gear recommended and live with no heat or defrost abilities. Souls make driving in our Nebraska winters "iteresting". Maybe I haut won't let people breath in the vehicle.

[geargnasher]

You can bypass it yourself with a pocketknife, screwdriver, and $5 worth of parts in less than five minutes. Not trying to cut a mechanic brother out of a job, but it's really very simple to do and will save you some bucks. If I remember right the inlet hose is 3/4" i.d. and the outlet is 5/8", so you'll need either a 3/4-5/8 barbed splice, or just get a 5/8-5/8 and put two clamps on the 3/4" hose, it will cinch down.

Trust me on RAIN-X on the inside of the glass.

Gear

[Bullwolf]

A heater core bypass can be a pretty simple thing to do yourself.

When its all done your defroster fan will still blow, but it will only be cool air that comes out of it.

Here are a couple images to give you an idea of what it is we are talking about.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa85/vwaldon/heater_bypass_lweb.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_e-Zrs***6OI/TQZunIAPIuI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/rbmYdBFxRd8/s1600/IMG_20101213_115828.jpg

The main idea here is you are just circulating the water from the heater hoses and skipping (bypassing) the inlet and outlet of the heater core.

It can be as simple as buying a plastic splice and a couple of worm style hose clamps, or as complicated as you feel like making it.

You can even redneck fabricate a bypass with some fittings that you may have already have laying around, if you don't want to buy a pre-made bypass kit from your local automotive parts store..

http://stuph.org/mustang/images/mustang%20-%20heater%20core%20bypass.jpg


I hope the pictures helped put it into perspective for you somewhat.



- Bullwolf

[Rockydog]

Bypass it as suggested above and buy one or two of these for the windshield and/or side windows. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ATT0FU/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001KZZRDE&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=197C4ZB4T7KG2C9PSKDQ RD

[Bad Water Bill]

One thing I will never say is those guys do not EARN their money. Try working on an exhaust system when the car has just driven thru a snow storm or work on a car that has run 20-40 miles on a 100 + degree day. There is a reason most garages are called BARNS. Most of them I worked in had poor heating if any and 0 had any air conditioning. Some guys owned a fan for when it got hot.

You have to grow EYEBALLS on your finger tips and u joints about every 6 inches down your arm.

Then you can get a nice cushey job replacing something under the dash. Lay on your back on the seat, shoulders on the floor boards flash lite in one hand and tools in the other.

Am I glad I am retired? What do you think?:bigsmyl2:

[starmac]

I was at the coffee shop one morning, bullsh#$%^&, and one guy said he should have been a mechanic. That we were getting rich, with the rates we charged. Shop rates were 35 an hour then. lol
I told I thought we were the dumbest suckers I could think of, That any fool could invest 1000 bucks in chainsaws, and make more money cutting firewood, and not have that 400 a week snapon bill. lol

[PatMarlin]

Fords and Dodges scare me.. :mrgreen:

You Mechanics sho nuff do earn your money. That's some work and it ain't for the faint at heart. I keep my old Chevy's running and thankfully, they don't break down much,.

I also run distilled water and Ballistol in the cooling system and put a chunk of zink on top of the radiator core dropped through the cap. Less Nobel metals and anti corrosion fluids are a good thing.

[CLAYPOOL]

YOU MIGHT call the local JR. Collage and see if there is some one in class that doesn't have a shop project and the Instructor will let them do it for you...worth a shot..Can't make a guess as the quality of work...????

[lylejb]

If you want to have some REAL fun, replace the spark plugs on a double-overhead cam 5.4L Lincoln Navigator with rear heat. You have to spend half a day removing the power distribution center, PCM, TCM, wiring harnesses, PCV hose, drain the cooling system and remove the wad of heater hoses/control valves just so you can physically get the back two passenger side coils out of the heads, then build your spark plug socket up with three, two-inch extensions one at a time to get to the plug down in the bottom of the hole. It takes 7" of extensions to reach the plug, but there is only 3" of room between the valve cover and the cowl sheet metal. When you're done with that (minimum 4 hours for a seasoned tech using air tools, the flat rate is 3.6 hours, still haven't figured out how the labor guides came up with that), go try to pull the plugs out of a 2004 or newer Triton 3-valve Ford engine. They have some stupid newfangled design of a plug that sticks the electode in the head, and when you unscrew it, the tip pulls out and breaks off in the head. After you break all eight of them, you can either pull the heads or use the specially-made, $700 kit that extracts the broken tips. It takes two full days to extract and replace all eight, and about the same time to cycle the heads, so it's a coin-flip. If you haven't offed yourself by then, you're ready to put a set of plugs and coil boots in a Lincoln LX, but wait, you have to pull the valve covers and replace the gaskets and spark plug tube seals first, since oil leaking into the tubes and shorting the coil leads is the reason it came in for a tuneup to begin with. Pulling the valve covers is akin to lacing a boot with one hand while your arm is through a 2' length of 5" sewer pipe, while standing on your head. And everyone loves to gripe about how expensive vehicle repairs have become. Trust me, for what automotive technicians have to do just to replace parts (much less give an honest, thorough, and accurate diagnosis) it would still be cheap at twice the labor rate most shops charge.

Thank you gear,


Just one thing, you forgot about the V10 vans. Those were LOVELY too.

[geargnasher]

Proof that automotive engineers smoke crack in the breakrooms at work: The location of the two powertrain control module grounds on '88-'95 Chevy anything with 4.3L, 5.0L, 5.7L, or 7.4L engines. For some reason, they thought it would be a good idea to use stud-bolts (steel) on the thermostat housing (aluminum) and driver's side front intake manifold (aluminum) bolt going into the driver's side cylinder head (cast iron) to attach the grounds via large, tin-plated brass ring eyelets crimped onto copper wire. Here's the Quiz: What happens when Joe Owner fills his cooling system with hard water from his front yard hose, to keep it topped off because the water pump leaks out the weep hole (like it's done since GM first started making that style in 1955)? Think about a hot, conductive, moving liquid passing through dissimilar metals in contact with each other (don't forget the stainless-steel thermostat with copper components). Guess what, the cooling system without distilled water and proper coolant now becomes a BATTERY. I've actually checked the ground studs on one of these with a volt meter and got over three volts. NOT the best place to attach a ground, much less a COMPUTER ground! No wonder the thermostat housings dissolve and the manifold bolts corrode in two. I can't tell you how many drivability issues I've solved with these engines by simply relocating the grounds straight to the battery, and how many radiators, thermostat housings, water pumps, heater cores, intake manifold gaskets, and heater hose quick-connect fittings I've replaced due to electrolysis damage from worn-out or improper coolant.

Gear

[PatMarlin]

Now days I just don't like working on trucks anymore. Used to enjoy it.

[PatMarlin]

Gear-

How bout' a GM 1995 6.5L? Same grounding?

One thing my truck is doing is when I pull out and get down the road- bout 35 mph, the electronic throttle (gas pedal) dies out, or cuts out and the "serivce throttle" light comes on the dash,. I pull over, shut the engine off and restart it, and it's gone. Good for the day? That throttle is gonna get me stuck.

[geargnasher]

Thank you gear,


Just one thing, you forgot about the V10 vans. Those were LOVELY too.

I did. How about when Joe Owner replaces his own plugs in his 6.8L van (or at least the ones he can get to himself!), doesn't torque them correctly, and after a few hundred miles blows, oh, say #3 plug/coil/boot clear out of the head, along with the threads, then faints when you tell him that the $300 in labor he saved by doing it himself is going to cost him $3,000 to fix?

Gear

[geargnasher]

Gear-

How bout' a GM 1995 6.5L? Same grounding?

One thing my truck is doing is when I pull out and get down the road- bout 35 mph, the electronic throttle (gas pedal) dies out, or cuts out and the "serivce throttle" light comes on the dash,. I pull over, shut the engine off and restart it, and it's gone. Good for the day? That throttle is gonna get me stuck.

Basically the same, but IIRC the grounds are on the intake manifold studs. The PMD (the module that controls the injector pump) uses them too and is mounted right on the side of the pump under the intake manifold where it cooks to death, especially at idle where the low fuel flow doesn't sink the heat away from the module very well.

Sudden dying and restarting is a dead giveaway for a toasted PMD, although you may have a computer ground issue or bad connection to the APP sensor pair on the throttle pedal if the "service throttle" light is on. I've also replaced several pedal sensors, and they can be intermittent, but usually they won't shut the engine down, just bring it to an idle. Several companies sell relocation kits for the PMD to address the random stalling problem and include a new PMD, custom heat-sink mounting bracket and extension harness (some relocate it to the intake snorkel studs, one puts it in the air filter box, and the best one locates it on the back side of the front skid plate). What happens is the two high-voltage transformers inside the PMD overheat and break loose from the circuit board. Stay away from aftermarket "rebuilt" PMDs, they "rebuild" them by putting them in a vise and squeezing them in a certain way that makes them connect again. You can do the same to yours for free except the labor to yank the intake manifold so you can get to it. The relocation kits come with a NEW PMD for the most part, make certain that it is NEW, or ask them how they "rebuild" them if they say they do. Finding and fixing computer grounds is never a bad idea, either.

Gear

[PatMarlin]

That's the first thing I did when I bought the truck- relocate the PMD. Well it's all together another PMD. The stock one is still cooking... :mrgreen: Mines under the radiator on the skid plate, with a big stainless plate bolted to protect it, and mucho airflow. The service light doesn't come on, just the service throttle light. It doesn't kill the engine, just acts it's running out of fuel. I kill the engine, then restart.

Sounds like a ground. I've got to check the grounding like you mention. Thanks.

[geargnasher]

IIRC you should be able to pull codes out of it by jumping pins "A" and "B" in the ALDL connector under the dash and watching the check engine light flash. Never tried that on a Diesel, always used a GM scanner for that sort of thing, but it should be the same procedure as a gas engine code retrieval. Follow the diagnostics for the code and see if it leads you to the APP sensor in the foot feed, it might have a dead spot in the resistor for both sensor circuits. I'm going to check my Diesel books in a minute and see if there's anything on this, they're "over-the-counter" books you can get at a parts house. If there's some decent diagnostic routines in them I'll refer you to the brand of book so you can get one.

Gear

[DCM]

I have a bad feeling I know the answer but do any of the stop leak products work very well for a small heater core leak? My 01 Dodge pickp is steaming up my windows. Mechanic said a replacement heater core involves mucho labor to take out the dash.
I prefer not to spend huge bucks on a repair but need to get another year or 2 from the darn thing.

Gear, are you out there?

IME most "stop leaks" will plug up the heater core rendering it useless. Your best bets are either to replace it or bypass it.