I Don't have a boolit problem!

[looseprojectile]

I have a rifle problem.
I have a Uberti Cimarron 40 65 single shot 1885 repro.
Been trying to get it to shoot 300 grain RCBS CAS boolits. No joy. After some head scratching I have come to the conclusion that the problem is, there is no bullet seat. That is, the rifling starts at the end of the case mouth with just a little chamfer.
Now, What to do? I have read a comment about this rifle to the effect that it was a big mistake to ever expect it to shoot well.
Because it is a single shot it might not be a big problem to alter the chamber or to chamber it to something longer to achieve a bullet seat. I have to seat the boolit with only about ten to twenty thousands of the front driving band out of the case to chamber it without effort.
Groove is .408., twist is 1 in 18. Are there any longer .40 caliber cartriges based on the 45 70 or 45 90 case. Maybe I could have a bullet seat cut and seat the boolits out a quarter inch or so? I size to .410.
Thanks for any input.

[L Ross]

I shoot a 40-70 Sharps Straight with the same barrel dimensions you've listed as far as diameter and twist. Being of a frugal nature myself, I'd try different bullet weights before I jumped to a rechambering or rethroating. If I remember my history correctly the original iteration of my rifle came from the factory with a 1 in 20" twist which was adequate for the 330 to 370 gr PP bullets used then. I have always shot 410 gr Saeco and Lymans with my 1 in 18" twist with satisfactory accuracy. Of course now I've gone and thrown all my original work out the window by have the rifle rechambered so I can make 40-70's out of Hornady .405 brass and I have to start my load work all over again.
With your 1 in 18" twist I'd try a heavier bullet first.

L Ross

[Ricochet]

Having the rifling start right off the end of the case mouth doesn't mean you can't make it shoot. That's the way the Swiss rifled their K-31s, which are notably good shooters. Take one of the boolits you're using, push it in from the breech till it stops against the rifling, ease a rod down the bore till it just touches the nose of the boolit, mark it with a piece of electrical tape right at the muzzle crown. Push the boolit back out, run the rod down till it hits the closed breech face and mark it again with tape at the crown. The distance between marks is the overall cartridge length for the boolit to touch the rifling. Good point to begin with cast boolit loading.

[Scrounger]

I've done something similar with jacketed bullets. Only I used an older case that had a split neck. You can seat the bullet (too long) by hand. Close the bolt slowly on it and the rifling forces the bullet back into the case as much as it wants. Then open slowly, carefully take the round out and measure the OAL.

[Hayfield]

I did two things to my 40-65 Shiloh Sharps to get it to shoot. Like yours, my leade was all but non existant. I rented a Winchester 40-65 reamer and redid / cleaned up the chamber which was too tight and this reamer also lengthened the leade a tad. (how do you spell that anyway?) I was amazed at how much metal I removed. My bore is 409 and I'm casting a 412.5 gr Snover @ 25:1 which casts at 410.5 and not sizing at all. This over 62 grs of Swiss FFFg compressed .250. I never resize the brass and I use the resize die to give the bullet a lil hug after seating. Should work for smokeless but I'd use a harder boolit.

[Ricochet]

lengthened the leade a tad. (how do you spell that anyway?)

The way you spelled it. :-D

[montana_charlie]

(how do you spell that anyway?)
Leade is spelled l-e-a-d-e, and tad is spelled t-a-d, as you already demonstrated.
But, since you asked, that is spelled t-h-a-t.

Hope this is sufficient reinforcement to encourage you to continue to spell korekly.
CM

[montana_charlie]

I've done something similar with jacketed bullets. Only I used an older case that had a split neck.
I did something similar, but...

I made a cylindrical 'platform' mounted on a threaded rod. The rod screws in and out in threads tapped into the primer pocket of the case.

With a bullet in the case mouth and the dummy round chambered, I screw the platform up snug against the base of the bullet and continue until the bullet stops against the lands.
Then, remove the assembly from the rifle, and record the depth of the 'platform' below the case mouth.

Later, I can mount that case in a shellholder, screw the platform down to the recorded depth, then mount it in my press to use as a solid stop for adjusting my powder compression plug.

Makes it easy to change the plug for different bullets...if you have their seating depths recorded.
CM

[Ricochet]

Sure is quick and easy to just gently shove boolits into the leade, measure the distance from the breech face like I outlined above, and write down (or type in) the O.A.L. for each boolit you plan to use. No fabrication necessary. But I suppose I'm missing out on having another cool gadget for each caliber I shoot.
:-D

[leftiye]

With J-word bullets (heh), A technique that I learned way back. Seat a boolit long. Try to chamber it. If it don't fit put it back in the die, and shorten it a little, until it does. If j-word, smoke the projectile, and test to be sure that it marks from the rifling. If not, lengthen a bit until it does mark from the rifling. With Jword bullets shorten the die from that length by 1/32 inch (.032). For lead, or cast boolits set the die to the length where the boolit marks in the rifling (and walk away). Keep the dummies to set dies with later on.

I don't have much faith in a bullet entering the rifling straight on without something making that happen. Either the chamber is tight enough (.008 clearance between case,and chamber doesn't get it) that the case neck just barely releases the boolit without causing high pressures, and thus guides the boolit. Or your leade is so gentle (2 degrees maybe) that it holds the boolit somewhat straight. OR you need some freebore!

In a single shot where there is no length restriction to feed through the action a throating reamer with cast boolit leade (2-5 degrees) can cut any amount of freebore you want. The only downside is like in the 45-70 where you might not want more case capacity, and you can have problems with reduced low pressure loads which problems get worse if you enlarge the cartridge by seating the boolit out. As long as you want to put some poop behind them, only good comes from having a throat (and seating against the rifling).

[cbrick]

Hayfield,

Where did you rent the reamer? I have a 26" octogon barrel Winchester 94 in 30-30 that has zero throat (did a cerrosafe chamber cast) and there are two things that it will not do: 1> shoot groups 2> not lead the bore badly. Other than that this is a gorgeous rifle and I would really like to save it. I checked Brownells and a reamer is $100.00 (that's a lot for what is in all probability a 1 time use). I checked with some local smith's and haven't yet found one that I will even let look at it much less apply cutting tools too.

Rick

[Hayfield]

cbrick. I rented from a local rifle builder. It was a Clymer. He builds fusils and single shots. I was the second to use the 40-65 after he used it. I'll ask him if he has a 30-30 and if he does I'll post back here. He charged me 25 or 30 $. Been a while.

[hiram]

1--If closing the action is uncomfortably snug, seat the bullet deeper.
2--Take a chamber cast, the chamber might be short, and you might be squeezing the case mouth closed a little as the chmber touches the chamfer.