Reloader or handloader??

[Lizard333]

An article in this months Handloader magazine has got me thinking. Which one are you??

If I'm doing 9mm or other semi-auto pistol loads I guess at that point I'm a Reloader. I put this loads in a plastic bag and this them in an ammo can with the caliber and weight. I guess this would be my "bulk" ammo. But for loads for my rifles and real handguns, like my revolvers, I label ever load and place them lovingly in little plastic boxes and place them on the shelf with care.

I'm just guessing that most guys here are handloaders, as casting requires a little more care than just buying some j-words and throwing them in some brass. What are you??

[deltaenterprizes]

I am both, some times I do bulk loads for teaching and other times I load ammo with getting the smallest group possible,
The bulk loads are reloads and the others are hand loads.

One old guy I knew said that there reloaders and "case stuffers".

[Texantothecore]

Analytical Handloader here.

[Rocky Raab]

The difference is not based on your care, but on the brass, believe it or not.

You HANDload when you use unfired brass. You are taking the place of factory automated loading machines and assembling virgin components by hand.

You REload when you make ammunition from previously fired brass, loading it for the second time.

In casual conversation, we often use the terms interchangeably (a bit like clip and magazine) but the above is the actual definition.

[Jim]

Maybe I don't know one from the other. I always figured a 'reloader' opens a manual, follows the instructions, uses established data and makes ammo. I think a 'handloader' can work up loads with powder not listed, bullets out of the weight window, determine the right alloy for casting toward a specific objective, engineer a lube for a given application, etc, etc...

[swheeler]

reloader/handloader, semantics me thinks

[runfiverun]

my definition is the same as rocky's.
there are some people in this world that do all that work and only use the case one time.
mostly re-forming or necking something up/down for a particular rifle that's used for hunting.

[rockrat]

Most times I am a reloader, but sometimes the handloader side of me shows up and I get real picky.

[Lizard333]

The difference is not based on your care, but on the brass, believe it or not.

You HANDload when you use unfired brass. You are taking the place of factory automated loading machines and assembling virgin components by hand.

You REload when you make ammunition from previously fired brass, loading it for the second time.

In casual conversation, we often use the terms interchangeably (a bit like clip and magazine) but the above is the actual definition.

If this is the case I have NEVER been a handloader. I can't afford new brass!! If I don't find it at the range are trade done here for it, I don't own it!! I guess I'm cheap.

[1Shirt]

Guess I am both depending on stuation, time, availability, etc.etc.etc. What's in a name anyhow?
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Bwana]

Maybe I don't know one from the other. I always figured a 'reloader' opens a manual, follows the instructions, uses established data and makes ammo. I think a 'handloader' can work up loads with powder not listed, bullets out of the weight window, determine the right alloy for casting toward a specific objective, engineer a lube for a given application, etc, etc...

I agree with Jim. Almost anyone can be a "reloader". It takes a different cat to be a "handloader". That said, there are differences even within the "handloading" community. This is based on one's experience, technical knowledge, exposure to various aspects of the field, and desire to explore the unknown. You know you are "out there" when you are attacked for doing something that everybody just knows "can't", or "shouldn't" be done. All you can do is try to explain and then leave them in the dust if that's where they want to stay. Everything is not for everybody.

[felix]

Sometimes it is difficult to separate the scientist, engineer, technician because of all the overlap sometimes. It gets plenty confusing when the theologian and philosopher gets involved with the local scientist. Engineers and technicians tend to put these two groups aside where and when the rubber meets the road. ... felix

Carrying this concept a little further, a proverbial doctor tends to be more of a scientist with strong engineer tendencies, whereas a surgeon is the ultimate technician for the other two. But a lawyer, who's that? ... felix

[Reload3006]

You say potato I say Pattio ... You say tomato I say tamato ... LOL lets call the whole thing off. I suppose we all start out being reloaders. and we turn into hand loaders. at least those of us who become addicted.

[P.K.]

IMO you need to open the scope of the quesstion to "Assembler or Re/hand loader". Bottom line, if you cast boolits for any aplication you are a "Technician" and hand loader.

[Rocky Raab]

It isn't "semantics" unless you inject connotations into a definition. I gave the definitions of the terms above. In those definitions, we can be handloaders as well as reloaders and can sequentially be both with the same piece of brass. You can handload a case only once, after which you reload it.

Neither is superior to the other, because you can devote the exact same degree of care and diligence, use the exact same load recipe and achieve the same results from brass that is new or used.

Adding a connotation that one is superior to the other is false logic; one can be a careful or sloppy handloader, as well as a careful or sloppy reloader. It doesn't matter how good or bad a driver you are, as soon as you take the new car off the lot, it is a used car - and your driving neither improves nor worsens.

[Love Life]

I load ammo. Who cares on the classification. Do I get a merit badge for being a handloader over a reloader and vice versa? Who says that the man cranking the progressive isn't producing quality ammunition?

I can be either one. It just depends what I am loading.

[Rocky Raab]

Well, if we are to indulge in bootstrap levitation, then what the heck. I'm superior to both reloaders and handloaders: I'm the world's only ammunition artisan.

[smilie=l:

[Echo]

I agree with Jim. Common usage seems to be that the reloader is an assembler, while the handloader is an experimenter. And I'll bet that most of us do both.

[blackthorn]

I accept as factual the definition as put forward by Rocky, nevertheless---Jim's (and if I am reading the 'flavor' of some of the other posts) thought process (definition) appears to have merit at times especially if we are trying to make a particular point. That said, depending on circumstances, I am both (under both 'definitions') at times. Have a great day and don't sweat the small stuff!

[quilbilly]

all of the above

[prs]

I reckon I have devloped my own way of think'n on this. All new components however assembled have me engaged in NEW LOADING. I do this alot with shot shell ammo and only on occasion were I needed new brass with metalic cartridge. I reckon muzzelloading is a varient of NEW LOADING. Hand Loading, to me, is done with one of those old Lee kits where you actually assemble the rounds with hand power; I never tried that and I think the products are no longer available. I reckon muzzel loading would qualify there too. Reloading is putting new life into old cases or hulls; no matter the care or lack there of. The great majority of my shootng is with ammo from a progressive presses set to closely replicate loads I worked-up with great care, although I know the progressive press and powder drop are not gonna give the stable result that loading each round individually would. Then again, it would take me more time than I will ever have, if I were to load each round indivdually.

prs

[williamwaco]

I agree with Jim. Common usage seems to be that the reloader is an assembler, while the handloader is an experimenter. And I'll bet that most of us do both.




Ditto.

Jim is correct.

Not only is that common usage now, it has been common usage since at least 1960.




.


Changing the language is what results in Socialists being relabeled as "Liberals".




.

[Jim]

Jeeesh! I ain't heard my name mentioned that many times since I got drunk and shot the windows outa' the courthouse.

[swheeler]

I'm going to go RELOAD some brand new RP brass with pulled down surplus powder and pulled surplus bullets.:)

[dverna]

The ONLY things that are important is the we manufacture ammunition that:

1 Is safe.
2 Is effective for the intended use.


Don

[Recluse]

I've never been one to give much of a damn about semantics--I remember when "gay" used to mean happy and carefree, as well as when it was a popular girl's name.

Reload, shmeload, handload, framload.

I take brass, once-fired or fired more than once, combine it with the proper amount and proportions of components and I make cartridges from it. For some cartridges, I sit at the bench and exercise my right arm vigorously (sounds dirty, don't it?:twisted:) and produce multitudes of cartridges in .38 Special, 9mm and .380ACP calibers.

Other times, I sit further down at the bench and meticulously assemble politically-incorrect Bambi-slaughtering harbingers of death that will put fresh venison in both my freezer and my stomach.

:coffee:

[williamwaco]

I've never been one to give much of a damn about semantics--I remember when "gay" used to mean happy and carefree, as well as when it was a popular girl's name.

Reload, shmeload, handload, framload.

I take brass, once-fired or fired more than once, combine it with the proper amount and proportions of components and I make cartridges from it. For some cartridges, I sit at the bench and exercise my right arm vigorously (sounds dirty, don't it?:twisted:) and produce multitudes of cartridges in .38 Special, 9mm and .380ACP calibers.

Other times, I sit further down at the bench and meticulously assemble politically-incorrect Bambi-slaughtering harbingers of death that will put fresh venison in both my freezer and my stomach.

:coffee:

Did you hear? the Christmas song "Deck the Halls" is being changed. We no longer "...don our gay apparel" now we must ..."don our bright apparel".

Excuse me, I can't finish this post, I have to throw up.





.

[Adam10mm]

Handload is loading ammunition by use of hand operated machines.

Reloading is loading again.

I'm a handloader that also reloads. I know some handloaders that only buy new brass, load and shoot it once, then get rid of it.

[fredj338]

I define it as this:
A reloader buys gear, goes to the book or internet & gets a middle of the road load & loads it up. It goes bang & all is good. RELOADER.
A handloader will workup loads, try diff bullets, work to find the best load for his gun/guns. This will also extend to handloading wildcat & obscure rounds where little or no data exists. HANDLOADER.
Most handloaders use a chronograph, most reloaders do not, they don't care as long as the ammo goes bang. SO I am in the handloader catagory even though I reload 1000s of rounds a year.:Fire:

[Papa smurf]

Handloader uses single cavity molds -------- A reloader uses a six cavity .
Good shooting -----------------------------Papa Smurf

[Reload3006]

Ok Ok I give I am an ammo crafter. I make it and I shoot it. :-)

[ku4hx]

Definitely both. Over the years I've bought thousand's of unfired cases and load them multiple times. Same is true for once fired brass.

The way I see it, all reloaders are hand loaders, but not all hand loaders are necessarily reloaders. I consider myself a craftsman too.

[swheeler]

I've never been one to give much of a damn about semantics--I remember when "gay" used to mean happy and carefree, as well as when it was a popular girl's name.

Reload, shmeload, handload, framload.

I take brass, once-fired or fired more than once, combine it with the proper amount and proportions of components and I make cartridges from it. For some cartridges, I sit at the bench and exercise my right arm vigorously (sounds dirty, don't it?:twisted:) and produce multitudes of cartridges in .38 Special, 9mm and .380ACP calibers.

Other times, I sit further down at the bench and meticulously assemble politically-incorrect Bambi-slaughtering harbingers of death that will put fresh venison in both my freezer and my stomach.

:coffee:

Me either, funny post though!:)

[Rocky Raab]

Honest question here swheeler -- How do you REload something that has never been loaded?

[Maven]

No issue for me as I just do what my Ouija Board tells me to!

[plainsman456]

Then there is that pesky extrapolation thingy.
I have been guilty of both and have had a ball working up some loads for cartridges that data is not available.
Yes, some times it can get a little hairy,but that is the challenge of this to me.

[mdi]

I would never disagree or argue with Rocky, but I feel a reloader is one who assembles a bunch of ammo to go bang (shooters first, reloading as a necessity) whereas a handloader researches loading data, assembles components suited for a particular firearm, for a particular use/need, ie; a maker of custom ammunition...

But, in the strictest defination, he's right. You can't re do anything until it's already been none at least once...

[Mumblypeg]

There are many definitions for many things. Rockfish comes to mind. Anywhere you go there is a fish that the locals call a rockfish although it may be a different fish depending on where you are... I'm with Fredj338 and mdi on this one...
You guys have WAY too much time on your hands...:violin:

[malpaismike]

Hello the camp! While I never gave the subject a lot of thought, my pard, Bill, and I figured we had it covered when we worked for Sportsman's Warehouse.

Bill enjoyed taking surplus military rifles and seeing how he could group. I said he made small holes far away; thus he was a handloader.

I, on the other hand, am a CAS shooter. I make copious ammo--we won't count the round ball for percussion--and expend it as fast as possible; thus I am a reloader.

That may not have been the be-all-end-all, but it sure got the both of us yanked off other projects when a customer had a reloading question. I liked to leave the technical stuff to Bill, especially when I explained you couldn't get enough Goex into a .44-40 case to hurt a good pistol; why should W-231 be any different? He sent me to my room; go figure. mm

[Maven]

Not wishing to be a smarta$$, but how many of you have actually read Mike Venturino's article in "Handloader"?

[wills]

Not wishing to be a smarta$$, but how many of you have actually read Mike Venturino's article in "Handloader"?

I did, and thought he had a deadline coming up and come column inches to fill.

[Rocky Raab]

If you mean the December issue, I did, and I just re-read it. (Because I am an accomplished and careful reader, must I say that I handread it?)

It is a discussion of reloading components and tools available in 1927 - and not once in the article does Mike use the term "handloading" much less make any distinctions of what it means or how it might differ from reloading. ("Handloading" appears in the title, but the writer seldom writes the headline.)

So I fail to understand how this tedious trickle of bicker comes to be.

[captaint]

I can tell you this - years ago, a guy at the rifle range bench looked at my plastic ammo boxes and asked "hey man, you shootin reloads??" And I replied "no man, I'm shootin handloads !!"

Any yes Rocky, I'm happy you handread the article. Now it'll sink in better. HA. enjoy Mike

[oldgeezershooter]

I handread it then reread it.

[P.K.]

If you mean the December issue, I did, and I just re-read it. (Because I am an accomplished and careful reader, must I say that I handread it?)

It is a discussion of reloading components and tools available in 1927 - and not once in the article does Mike use the term "handloading" much less make any distinctions of what it means or how it might differ from reloading. ("Handloading" appears in the title, but the writer seldom writes the headline.)

So I fail to understand how this tedious trickle of bicker comes to be.

LOL!

Then I am in error, I thought it odd that the OP would refer to an article that was in the Oct. issue named "Reloader or Handloader." That is where I based my reply from, not the current issue. Seeing your post made me check the "library" ( magazine rack near the throne) and low and behold there it was in the Oct. issue. Since it is bi-monthly and I haven't read the December issue myself I can see the mistake of the OP in stating "new issue" of the magazine.

[Cadillo]

The difference is not based on your care, but on the brass, believe it or not.

You HANDload when you use unfired brass. You are taking the place of factory automated loading machines and assembling virgin components by hand.

You REload when you make ammunition from previously fired brass, loading it for the second time.

In casual conversation, we often use the terms interchangeably (a bit like clip and magazine) but the above is the actual definition.

Thank You!

Someone Who Actually Gets It!

Well Done!

[williamwaco]

"Handloader Magazine"

I was a charter subscriber to that publication. I subscribed to it before they bought the paper. Sight unseen. Bought a pig in a poke.


I subscribed to it because in their ads, they described it exactly like Jim's distinction. It was for handloaders. They were defined as those who took great pains to craft the most accurate, best performance ammunition, possible. They were defined as those who paid individual attention to every step of every round loaded.

Yes I know their title states "Ammunition Reloading Journal" but in the beginning they made the same distinction I do.




.

[swheeler]

I've bought hundreds of rounds of 06 match brass, which had not been fired but instead pulled down from loaded match ammo. Now the brass, powder and bullets had all been previously loaded. I took these components and RELOADED them to make ammo. According to RR this would be HANDLOADING, BUT ALL THESE COMPONENTS WERE LOADED BEFORE making the reassembly RELOADING. Semantics for people with nothing better to do, now go LOAD some ammo and shoot something!

[P.K.]

Hold all.


I really belive the OP was refering to the article I refrenced #45. Refer to Handloader OCT 2011 to reply.

Some stuff really gets out of hand....

[Recluse]

Honest question here swheeler -- How do you REload something that has never been loaded?

Easy, my AF brethren.

The brass was LOADED into a bag or box and then "shot" over to me by way of a postal or freight propulsion system.

Once it "landed" at my domicile, I simply RE-loaded it, by hand, into more useful devices.

:)


Not wishing to be a smarta$$, but how many of you have actually read Mike Venturino's article in "Handloader"?

Not only read it, but printed it out (I get the electronic subscriptions) and put it one of my binders in the shop.

Agree with Mike's observations and opinion on the matter--and also believe a handloader can also be a reloader, but a straight reloader is not a handloader. [smilie=b::veryconfu

:coffee:

[Bwana]

Not wishing to be a smarta$$, but how many of you have actually read Mike Venturino's article in "Handloader"?

I haven't read any of Venturino's stuff in a long time. I didn't think much of it back then. He seemed like someone who, like alot of them, did mostly fluff articles.

I liked most of the articles written by Rick Jamison. Of course they tended to be more technical minded and cutting edge.

I think some of the difference may be because the editors, etc., are concerned about some idiot getting hurt or destroying a gun and then blaming the gun magazine rather than their own stupidity. That is the world we live now, unfortunately. Much like the answer to the "letter to the experts" in the latest issue of Shooting Times (a shadow of its former self) in which the fellow is told to NEVER use small rifle primers in a 9mm round; of any stripe. It is the "safe" answer; but, not the correct one. Oh well.

[Rocky Raab]

Thanks, Cadillo.

Recluse, my brethren, I see you can type with your tongue in your cheek. Good!

I enjoy Mike Venturino's stuff even though we share very few interests since he drifted away from revolvers. I find most of his reloading advice sound, but I don't agree with some of his opinions on peripheral matters. This last is one example.

I'd rather say that there are careful and conscientious reloaders as well as a few buffoons who reload. I'm certainly one of the former, but I don't feel the need to vainly puff myself up with some self-appointed title.

[BruceB]

Been watching the thread while sitting on my hands to prevent a reply. However, my best intentions have just vanished.

Gents:

No matter HOW MANY times a case has been used, when it enters my loading process leading to a finished cartridge, I can assure one and all that IT HAS BEEN HANDLOADED.

There are numerous stages that each case must pass through, all of which receive care and attention. The age (or lack of it) of each cartridge case makes no difference whatever to the degree of HAND PROCESSING that it receives, although the routine may vary somewhat. For my part, I am a handloader, plain and simple, new brass or used.

This IS a semantic debate, and semantics can be very important.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

So are we saying that reloading would be... say taking factory WW 125gr JHP .357 magnum at 1200fps and then after shooting it off, reloading the used brass it to the same spec?

Where as Handloading might be taking that once fired brass and changing something in the load to suit your needs? like reduced load for youths, wad cutters for a paper shoot, Heavy WFP for that hog hunt, or some long range gong load...

But then I'm guessing that if you then take that Handloaded brass and load it again to your new spec. then at that point it becomes a reload.. :rolleyes:

So to be a handloader would mean.. I should only load a batch (of 20 or 10,000) one way, one time. Then I'll hafta load that batch another way next time or I'm just a reloader who plays at being a handloader?:???:

Grrrrrrr!

:veryconfu

[Bullwolf]

I used to work for a small company that sold reloads to the public. Even though I worked a variety of loads up myself, my job description was a reloader.

I sort of figured I was hand loading, while using the old Lee classic loading kits as I was doing it by hand, and not using a press.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/GA6304.JPGhttp://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_210526_999_02?rgn=0,0,634,658&scl=1.731578947368421&fmt=jpeg&id=2TJ5Vcc99sY1OzfYAa5UVf

I guess a lot of us start off just reloading, and then some move on a bit. Perhaps a few never bother to get past just making reloads.

While I have loaded many lifetimes worth of ammunition on the larger scale (commercial) Dillon progressive presses for other people to use, I personally prefer slower methodical single stage reloading for 99% of my personal loading needs.

In general I load once fired brass, the first time around, but I have crafted a few loads using brand spanking new Starline brass as well.

Quantify me as you will, but in my mind I tend to think of myself as a handloader.


- Bullwolf

[swheeler]

I will post this partial quote by Joyce Hornady;
"Handloading your own ammunition-ammunition of excellent quality, custom tailored to your own rifle, and your own shooting needs- could hardly be easier or safer. It requires only four different components(empty once fired cases, primers, powder, and bullets"

Now I've been doing it just like Joyce for nearly 50 years, handloading precision ammunition with empty once fired cases, but by the time I get done with them they are loaded many more times than once. Joyce and I can handload with fired brass, but we're good!:)

[prs]

I will post this partial quote by Joyce Hornady;
"Handloading your own ammunition-ammunition of excellent quality, custom tailored to your own rifle, and your own shooting needs- could hardly be easier or safer. It requires only four different components(empty once fired cases, primers, powder, and bullets"

Now I've been doing it just like Joyce for nearly 50 years, handloading precision ammunition with empty once fired cases, but by the time I get done with them they are loaded many more times than once. Joyce and I can handload with fired brass, but we're good!:)


My only semmantic gripe with that is why would anyone limit themselves to just once fired cases? I don't cull them until way more shooting than that in most types of loadings. I've got some cases I use for black powder cowboy rounds that may have gone through hundreds of firings with little to no wear. Steps to reduce work hardening and occasional annealing are certainly parts of meticulas handloading.

prs

[onesonek]

I certainly can see RR's definitions as being correct. Then too, I can see it as this,,,

"Sometimes it is difficult to separate the scientist, engineer, technician because of all the overlap sometimes. It gets plenty confusing when the theologian and philosopher gets involved with the local scientist. Engineers and technicians tend to put these two groups aside where and when the rubber meets the road. ... felix"

But then when it comes down to it, what I think really only matters to me.
Beyond that, it's each to their own. Spending hrs contemplating otherwise, would be as futile as arguing which is better,,, the .270 Win. and .280 Rem..

[fredj338]

But then when it comes down to it, what I think really only matters to me.
Beyond that, it's each to their own. Spending hrs contemplating otherwise, would be as futile as arguing which is better,,, the .270 Win. and .280 Rem..
No need, everyone knows the 280 is better.:mrgreen:

[Rocky Raab]

As I think I said in my first post way up yonder, we tend to use the terms "reloader" and "handloader" a bit interchangeably. Some of us use a little bit less discrimination to differentiate them, and some of us don't differentiate between them at all. Still others use a totally subjective approach.

I'll stick with mine: If you are producing the equivalent of factory ammo (all new components) by hand, then you are a handloader. When reusing any component, you are a reloader.