Q about buying cast bullets...hope it's OK!!!

[joe i]

Hey All,

This is my first post here and I hope I'm not violating any rules because........

I'm not asking about my very own cast bullets, I'm asking about buying cast bullets. The reason is that I'm new to reloading, and I want to start with cast bullets since I will be casting in the future (already have 400 lbs of WW stored).

I will be starting with the 9mm, since I'm shooting IDPA. I need to get about 1050 fps or so out of a 124 gr bullet to meet power factor. My Beretta's bore slugs at .3575, so standard .355 or .356 cast bullets are out, and I think I need to move up to .358 dia. if I understand how all this works.

I'd like to keep bullet weight around 124 grs if possible - more bullets/pound that way once I start casting my own, and I should already have some pretty close load data.

I have about 1800 cases of mixed 9mm to start out with, and have not bought powder or primers yet.

I was looking on Powder Valley's site and I see a 125 gr TCFP with a BHN of 12, that costs about $29/500. Is this going to cause bad leading at the velocity I'm needing? Is the velocity I need even going to be possible with a lead bullet? One online manual I saw topped out its lead chart at 980 fps with this weight bullet.

Assuming I can get the speed I need, does anybody have other suggestions for a good online supplier who stocks something like what I'm looking for at the same or cheaper prices?

If 12 BHN isn't enough, recommendations on the hardness I need for these velocities would also be welcome.

The easiest way to learn might be to load up some 125-gr .357 JHP's, but I do want to start out with lead if possible due to cost. Any advice you have is welcome, and thank you.

[Love Life]

Wow. You really asked all the hard questions on your first post. Welcome aboard and let me try to answer them. Your questions are in red.

1. I will be starting with the 9mm, since I'm shooting IDPA. I need to get about 1050 fps or so out of a 124 gr bullet to meet power factor. My Beretta's bore slugs at .3575, so standard .355 or .356 cast bullets are out, and I think I need to move up to .358 dia. if I understand how all this works.

That is correct. You will need to have a boolit that is at least bore diameter or .001 over to even have a chance.


2. I was looking on Powder Valley's site and I see a 125 gr TCFP with a BHN of 12, that costs about $29/500. Is this going to cause bad leading at the velocity I'm needing? Is the velocity I need even going to be possible with a lead bullet? One online manual I saw topped out its lead chart at 980 fps with this weight bullet.

It will not cause bad leading if it is sized right, but unfortunately the 9mm is very finicky when it comes to shooting cast. Also they are probably too small so more than likely will cause bad leading. The velocity you need is entirely possible with a lead bullet. As a matter of fact my cast 9mm reloads are a bit hotter than your power factor.

3. If 12 BHN isn't enough, recommendations on the hardness I need for these velocities would also be welcome.

12 BHN is a good starting point, but all my 9mm like 15 or above.

4. The easiest way to learn might be to load up some 125-gr .357 JHP's, but I do want to start out with lead if possible due to cost.

STOP!!!!!! DO NOT LOAD .357 JACKETED PROJECTILES IN YOUR 9MM!!!

I suggest you read through the stickies and hang around here a while to get the answers you seek. Also read your reloading manuals front to back, twice, and do not stray from what they instruct you to do. We are all here and able to answer your questions. By the time you get done here you will be good to go.

[bumpo628]

You should buy from Missouri Bullet directly instead of going through PVI. They can combine shipping on up to four boxes into one medium flat rate box. Plus they have more selection - there are two 125 grain bullets for you to try.
http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?category=5&secondary=9

If you go with j-words, stick with the .355"
http://precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-9-124-FMJ

[joe i]

Thank you all for the advice so far. It seems like I might have a hard time finding .358 cast bullets with the appropriate hardness and weight. :( I'd hate to buy a box of 500 and find out I can't make power factor with them before leading gets out of hand.

Lovelife, the 125 gr'ers I was talking about on PVI are .358's, so unless they don't meet spec they should be the proper diameter. The hardness is definitely a question, though, especially since you're needing 3 points higher.

Do you mind if I ask why I should stick with .355's for jacketed in this specific pistol? As I mentioned in the first post, my Beretta's bore slugs at .3575. I know of several people who are using .357 jacketed bullets in their Beretta 92's, because the bores are so oversized. They report a great increase in accuracy. One of them is using 125 gr .357 Hornady XTP's with excellent results.

Obviously this is a public forum and we don't want someone with a different pistol who hasn't slugged their bore to read this and go hurt their pistol or themselves, but I'm asking about my case, specifically.

I had actually only mentioned it because I thought it was common practice for reloaders with overbored 9mm's to use .357 jacketed bullets. I have heard of it quite regularly on the Beretta forum and in talking to reloaders in my area. Sorry if I've stirred up a hornet's nest!

[dale2242]

Check one of our own vendors, Carolina Cast Bulllets.
I`m sure Jerry will do what he can to fill your needs.
[url]www.carolinacastbullets.com
....dale

[joe i]

Check one of our own vendors, Carolina Cast Bulllets.
I`m sure Jerry will do what he can to fill your needs.
[url]www.carolinacastbullets.com
....dale

Thanks Dale, I will do just that later on today.

[ku4hx]

Re: "Do you mind if I ask why I should stick with .355's for jacketed in this specific pistol? As I mentioned in the first post, my Beretta's bore slugs at .3575. I know of several people who are using .357 jacketed bullets in their Beretta 92's, because the bores are so oversized. They report a great increase in accuracy. One of them is using 125 gr .357 Hornady XTP's with excellent results."

You can load 357 magnum jacketed bulets in your 9mm cases, just be 100% sure you never allow them to be fired in guns with bores that are smaller than yours. If your load is at or near max pressure and you shoot them through a bore that's, say, .003" smaller in diameter you could, easier than you think, get into an overpressure situation. It's just not worth it.

You'll be far better off using conventional wisdoms and published suggestions of all sorts.

As to store-bought cast boolits; they're like shoes. If they fit and work as you wish they'll serve you well.

[Love Life]

Ku4hx said exactly what I was going to say concerning loading .357 jacketed projectiles in 9mm with an eversized bore. If you do that (which I highly suggest you don't) then you must mark those loads so that there is no chance you will load them in the wrong gun. Also you have to let all your friends know not to shoot your ammo.

The best Idea is to play it safe. Below is the winning combination for all my 9mm pistols with cast:

125 gr RN boolit sized at .3575
alloy: hardball bhn 17
lube: Lotak Hard or Speed green
powder: hp38

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome to the board, Joe I!

The 9mm can be a little cranky about cast boolit accuracy, and for this reason is not a "beginner's caliber" for casters or reloaders. One REAL shortcut to success you've already taken--getting the barrel's internal dimensions dialed in, and attempting to purchase boolits that fit.

Fit is paramount when it comes to accuracy and leading prevention. SIZE MATTERS. Size is at least 90% of the equation, with boolit metallurgy and lube character fighting over the remaining small percentages.

I favor 125 grain boolits in the 9mm also. 1100 FPS is easily obtainable with castings in complete safety, and using any number of powders with burn speeds ranging from Bullseye through Herco.

One hint--since you'll be loading oversized cast boolits, I would recommend an oversized expander plug in your die set. Most 9mm expander plugs mic about .352", and are spec'd to service jacketed bullets of .355". For castings running .3575"-.358", I use a 38/357 spud (about .3555"). This will prevent the case mouth from reducing the size of your hard-won boolits of the correct size. The exact tool set is the Lyman Multi-Charge Die Set.

As for use of .357" jacketed bullets in your wide-bored 9mm.......as long as your pistol(s) all mic at .357" or wider, have at it. I've done it for years without issue, all 4 of my present 9Guns mic at .357"-.358", as have several that have gone down the road. Accuracy IS improved, just work the loads up from below as should be done when any new element of the load equation is altered.

[runfiverun]

in my taurus clone of the beretta i didn't even bother with trying my 9mm molds and went straight to the 125 gr rnfp for the 38.
i also done some other things to get this oversized sloppy !@#$ to shoot.
but suffice it to say it shot it's best groups with a 359 sized 158gr swc.
the 125 rnfp done well for just tipping plates and such, but it wasn't gonna win any bullseye matches.

[Grandpas50AE]

Penn Cast bullets can be ordered with custom sizing for very little extra. I ordered 1000 for my .38 Super and had him size them .3565 after slugging my bore. The bullets came at exactly .3565 (my barrel slugged at .3560), and are very accurate and leave no leading at 1075 fps. This is a mild load as far as recoil goes in my Kimber Stainless .38 Super.

His web address is: www.pennbullets.com if you wish to contact them. Bob Palerma is a first class act to do business with.

[bumpo628]

I believe you can order custom hardness and sizing from Missouri Bullet too. You just need to call them to find out if they charge extra.

[joe i]

Update for everyone - I looked at some prices on the websites you all recommended, and just got off the phone with Bob at Penn Bullets. It was an extra $5 to have the batch of 1000 sized to .358 - I'm going with 125 gr RNBB. Cost ended up being $65 base price plus $5 for sizing, plus $11 to ship, so I'm into it for $81. Bob said they would ship next week.

Man, it will be so nice to start casting my own! But I really look forward to getting this thing going.

I need to order powder and primers next, and then a set of 9mm dies. I do have some questions about dies and other tooling also - FYI, I will also be reloading .25-06, .380, .223, and .357. But the 9mm is what I need to get going on immediately. I might also try 7.5 x 55 Swiss at some point.

1) Most people I talk to are suggesting I spend the extra $$ up front and get a set of Dillon dies - what do you think about that? I have always tried to buy the right tools the first time, and I want a set of dies that will last a lifetime. I won't hesitate to spend the money if it's wise.

2) I'm going to need to clean up all of these old cases I've got. I've read on here about SS media and Thumbler tumblers - again, I want to only buy this stuff once. Is that what I should go for?

3) What's the fastest way to clean up these cases? Get a universal decapping die and run them all through it, then tumble?

Thanks again for all of your help. I'm trying not to ask dumb questions, so I've been doing a lot of reading and talking to reloaders who I know. But most of them aren't up to the 'state of the art' like some of you are.

[Love Life]

1) Dillion makes outstanding dies, but so do many others. You can't go wrong with Lee, RCBS, etc. Just avoid the LEE FCD if you get their dies.

2) I have never used a thumblers tumbler or stainless media. I use a vibratory tumbler with corncob media. Makes all my brass nice and shiny. I don't deprime before I clean my brass. One less step and it keeps cleaning media out of the flash holes.

3) Just throw them in the tumbler. They don't need to be deprimed before tumbled.

[Grandpas50AE]

I have used both a Thumbler's Tumbler and the vibratory polishers. For empty cases that have not been de-primed, it really doesn't matter which one you use. For loaded rounds, never - I repeat never - polish loaded rounds in a tumbler type polisher. The vibratory polishers generally will not be compatible with liquid media, other than a tablespoon or two of polish compound added to the corn cob or walnut media itself. If you are not going to be polishing or cleaning loaded rounds, then the two types of polishers are jsut as functional and a matter of personal prefence.

If you deprime the cases before polishing, you will likely get media stuck in the primer pocket and/or flash hole, so most of us polish the cases before depriming to avoid this.

I have Dillon dies, RCBS dies, and Hornady dies of vaious calibers that I use on my Dillon press and they all work just fine and ar all good dies.

[mpmarty]

If you go for the 7.5X55 Schmidt Rubin be sure to buy the Redding die set for that cartridge. I bought RCBS and had to throw them away and buy the Redding set which is made specifically for the 7.5X55 not the 7.5X54 which is what all the rest are which was the correct cartridge for the Swiss rifles until 1911 when the cartridge was re-designed. If on the other hand you own a model 1889 rifle go with any of the other die makers as the 7.5X54 is correct for that rifle.

[stubert]

If you are just starting , I would shy away from bevel base boolits, They must be the right size or you Will get gas cutting. I could never get bevel base to shoot in my 44 mag. as good as I would have liked. Maybe a few members would send you some samples to try BEFORE you spend good money?