Question on 44 cal sizing

[Moonman]

I have a recently acquired S&W MODEL 29-5 44MAG 6"barrel with cylinder mouths that ALL measure .4330 with a machinist telescoping gage.

Today I received a set of gage pins from Grizzley .201/.500 (.0002 Minus) a 250 piece set, they're Great. Grizzley # G9794 for $75 plus 11.50 UPS Ship.

My cylinder mouths measure .443 (.4328) with the pins for a sliding fit, so the telescoping gage was closer at .4330. (I'm a retired machinist).

I plan to basically shoot 44 Special type loads for target shooting as I do not hunt, probably using both 44 Special and 44 Mag Brass as I have both.

The question is:
Should I look to use a softer lead alloy and look to cast BOOLITS .434 and size to .433, or should I look to cast .435 and size to .434?

I have not Slugged the Barrel of the Model 29.

Your Opinions and Suggestions Please.

[williamwaco]

I have a recently acquired S&W MODEL 29-5 44MAG 6"barrel with cylinder mouths that ALL measure .4330 with a machinist telescoping gage.

Today I received a set of gage pins from Grizzley .201/.500 (.0002 Minus) a 250 piece set, they're Great. Grizzley # G9794 for $75 plus 11.50 UPS Ship.

My cylinder mouths measure .443 (.4328) with the pins for a sliding fit, so the telescoping gage was closer at .4330. (I'm a retired machinist).

I plan to basically shoot 44 Special type loads for target shooting as I do not hunt, probably using both 44 Special and 44 Mag Brass as I have both.

The question is:
Should I look to use a softer lead alloy and look to cast BOOLITS .434 and size to .433, or should I look to cast .435 and size to .434?

I have not Slugged the Barrel of the Model 29.

Your Opinions and Suggestions Please.



I am confused.

Is that .443 a typo?

[Moonman]

A typo, I corrected it. Measures .433

[Larry Gibson]

I would size "as cast" from .429 up to .433 or whatever your mould drops them at and try them.

Quite frankly a lot of us, most actually, shot a lot of .429 - .430 sized cast bullets through such throats in .44s for years before we "learned" we must always size to the throats of the cylinder. I've had several .44s (S&W and Rugers) that have had .432 - .433 throats with .429 barrels. I've gone through back flips sizing cast to the throats and they don't shoot any better than the same bullet sized .429 - .430. Now I don't claim to shoot a revolver as good as some here so the difference could be me. However, I could manage some pretty good groups at 50 yards and could not find any real difference. With cylinder throats .004 - .006" over the groove diameter of the barrel as found in many 45 Colt revolvers I have found accuracy improved to a degree. On the other hand I've a .44 magnum with .434 cylinder throats and a .430 groove barrel and it shoots just fine with .430 cast bullets.

Larry Gibson

[williamwaco]

I would size "as cast" from .429 up to .433 or whatever your mold drops them at and try them.

Quite frankly a lot of us, most actually, shot a lot of .429 - .430 sized cast bullets through such throats in .S for years before we "learned" we must always size to the throats of the cylinder. I've had several .S (S&W and Rogers) that have had .432 - .433 throats with .429 barrels. I've gone through back flips sizing cast to the throats and they don't shoot any better than the same bullet sized .429 - .430. Now I don't claim to shoot a revolver as good as some here so the difference could be me. However, I could manage some pretty good groups at 50 yards and could not find any real difference. With cylinder throats .004 - .006" over the groove diameter of the barrel as found in many 45 Colt revolvers I have found accuracy improved to a degree. On the other hand I've a .44 magnum with .434 cylinder throats and a .430 groove barrel and it shoots just fine with .430 cast bullets.

Larry Gibson


Yeah! - What Larry said.

Me too.

I have owned at least 20 .44 cal revolvers from four different manufacturers since 1960. S&W, Ruger, Charter, and Tarus. I sized every one of them .430. I have no idea what the throat diameters were.

I just measured the first throats in my life a few months ago. Ruger BH, Bisley. They were .432. I was chagrined to learn that all those .430 SWCs I fired through it were unsuitable. Just think, If I had sized them .432 I could have cut cloverleafs at 100 yards.

The best I ever got from those woefully undersized bullets was about 2" at 25 yards. Leading? Zero.

See an example of ZERO leading here:

http://www.reloadingtips.com/pages/leading-zero.htm






.

[EDK]

I'd mic up a bunch of boolits from the moulds I wanted to use and do a minimal amount of sizing if possible...."give 'em an air cut" to insure roundness while you lube them. I mentioned in another thread using .432/.433 now and having a .434 MIHEC mould on order....a .434 die isn't that expensive...if the boolits will chamber.

Somebody commented that "your gun has six perfect sizing dies in it."

Ed...soon to be retired power plant sledge hammer mechanic...coal mills are my life!

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[mongo]

When I started casting I purchased the Lee 240gr rn and a push threw sizer of .429 I shot many in my mod29 and Ruger with very good results. I would always purchase .430 in cast bullets from diffrent suppliers before I began making my own.

[prs]

Smith and Wesson is probably as consistent as the heat in H377, but slugging the barrel is part of the job. Whenever possible I also lube in an as dropped diameter size die.

prs

[bobthenailer]

I currently have 2- 44 mags that have .432 & .433 chamber throats , and they do not shoot my normaly sized .430 dia bullets with the best accuracy, i beagled a mould to cast .433 dia bullets and bought a .433 sizer die and my group sizes were cut by more than half of there previous size using .430 dia bullets . all other 44 mags past & present shoot the .430 dia very well.
As far as alloy i usually use water dropped WW but for these 2 -44 mags i use air cooled WW.

[Reload3006]

conventional wisdom tells you to go with at least a .433 boolit. However that is not carved in stone by the finger of God. I swage for all my 44 pistols and rifles at .4295 and have zero leading issues. However If I use pure soft lead and push it at max velocity I have gotten lots of leading. back off on the charge none. All the advise you have been getting is good and proven. So is playing with your load. It all goes to the Old saying there is more than one way to skin a cat. Experiment find out what works best for you.

[randyrat]

All is fine, dandy and good advice... don't over look good consistent brass and the correct sizer button. You can do all this fine work of measuring throats and sizing only to find out your brass is squeezing/sizing down your soft lead bullets. Been there and did it until I swallowed my pride, asked and received direction here. Here is some good reading. Go to "Bullet seating" down the page a bit.
http://www.levergun.com/articles/thoughts.htm

[Bomberman]

I also have a S&W Model 29...a -2. To be perfectly honest, I've never measured the throats on my cylinder but have slugged my barrel. What I found that worked for me is to slug the barrel, and take that same slug and drop it through each chamber. If it goes through without hanging up or need just a slight push to go through, size you boolits to groove diameter + .002 and shoot it. Now if that slug hangs up in your chambers, you will have to ream out the chambers but from what you posted it doesn't sound like that's a problem. In other words, as long as your throats are larger than your grooves, you're good to go.

But as always, your revolver may be different and only by trying different things will it tell you what it wants. Good luck.

[RobS]

Can you size smaller than your cylinder throats? Yes

Can you size larger than your cylinder throats? Yes

Does doing either work all the time? NO

If you only have one 44 then best bet is to size to the cylinder throats. If you already shoot other 44's then size to what you are doing for them and see if the Smith shoots well, if not size larger.

[Moonman]

Modern ULTIMATE ACCURACY THOUGHT seems to indicate that you should measure, with a pin gauge, the actual mouth sizes of ALL the cylinders chambers. My 44 cylinder mouths (ALL 6 OF THEM ARE .433) some people may have a cylinder having different sizes somewhat in the different chambers. (make them equal ???). REAM THEM.

The thought is to at least SIZE equal to or .001 over the Cylinder Mouth Size (lead bullets) as they will act as a SIZER of the bullet before it enters the forcing cone. The cylinder mouths NEED to be Larger than the barrel groove dia. for this to occur properly, otherwise you have bigger problems if the cylinder chambers are smaller. Reaming will be required.

If the bullet is SMALLER than the mouth size of the cylinder chamber it can theoretically enter the forcing cone at an angle rather than straight on and affect the ultimate accuracy of the firearm.

[Reload3006]

Honestly in my opinion .. (Right they are like back sides every one has one and they all stink)... How good your cylinder throats are is more of a leading issue than size at least in your cylinder. so much so that Midway and Brownells sells lapping kits for it. a small burr or gouge in your cylinder throat will cause leading faster than anything. Even more critical than boolit size. Bore size IMO is next most important. I like others was doing that with out issue before I found out that cylinder size is how your bullet is supposed to be fitted LOL. Find and use what ever works for you.

[Grandpas50AE]

All good advice so far. I have had several S&W and Ruger .44 mags and S&W 24-3 .44spl and to be honest I have never measured any of them. I began with the .44 Mag in 1973, and have used the LYMAN 429244 GC mould ever since. Always used the LYMAN 429 sizer to lube and seat GC. These boolits have been shot from both my older brothers' mags, my mags, three of my best hunting buddies' mags, and have always shot very nice groups at 100 yards from the mags. They have killed MANY whitetail deer over the last 4 decades, so I will not change anything regardless of what they would measure. Those boolits weigh out at 275gr. using LYMAN #2, and 250gr. using straight WW. THe 275's will not stabilize in the 24-3, so I got an RCBS 240gr. mould which casts that same #2 alloy at 245gr. after lube and GC seat. These work really great out of the 24-3 using SR4759 powder. I get no leading in any of my .44's using these bullets, and the mags are running 1200fps while the spl are running 900fps.
What I would do in your shoes is try out what you are casting using the LYMAN 429 sizer/lubricator and see what results I get. If they're good, the rest is unnecessary, if not good, use the information provided in the many posts to refine your loads and get the results you want.
The 24-3 is a really great little revolver, and has provided me with many years of enjoyable shooting.

[Blammer]

I would start at .433 and make sure you can camber the round, and go from there. I suspect that .433 will be pretty close.

That's what I would try first.