It worked on the Zumbo Issue

[Swamprat1052]

I may be repeating something someone else has already said, I probably am. I tried to read all the posts on what Zumbo said and got a headache. Not just here but on other outdoor site including a Varmint Hunting site I manage. I have never seen us as outdoorsman, shooters and hunters ever band together on any issue like we have on this one. And you know what? It worked, companies and magazines heard us loud and clear and it scared em! They acted in a hurry! Why cant we do the same thing with legislators. Bombard them with emails like we did the companys supporting Zumbo. Band together on the new gun bans congress and the states are working on. I think we can do more good with the internet than the NRA lobbyists. If we as a whole did the same thing with the politicians we have done with these guys over Zumbo, it might put the fear of shooting voters in them. I am posting this on every shooting site I am a member of and hope you guys do the same. It sure cant hurt.

Swamprat

[Swamprat1052]

I just drafted a letter to congress, what do you guys think? I havent mailed it, just want to get feedback from you guys as to whether its appropriate or not. Should we do something like this or sit on our hands. Is it too strong? Not strong enough?

Dear Legislator:

My name is _____________________ and I am a registered voter in the State of ___________, County of ________________. I am ___years old and have been an avid hunter and shooter all my life. I have never committed a violent crime or been charged with one. I am a life long member of the NRA and am proud of it. My firearms were purchased legally, complying with all federal and state laws at the time of their purchase, as is all my ammunition and components. I have never violated or been accused of violating any law or legislation involving hunting or shooting. And there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS just like me.

As a whole we are tired of being treated like criminals and outcasts by legislators. Think about what you are passionate about, what you love to do. I am sure that whatever it is there are those who would abuse it and use it in ways to harm others. How would you feel if someone tried to take what you love away because of what an irresponsible person or criminal does. More people are killed and injured by automobiles, boats, airplanes, electricity, drowning, and alcohol and tobacco abuse than will ever be with firearms. Are you going to ban all these things? Is it really about our guns or is it about CONTROL?

Recently one or our own, a gun writer, Jim Zumbo, made a remark about a certain type of firearm he didn’t believe had any place in America or hunting. I have never seen sportsmen band together and take action in the numbers they did about this. Letters, emails and phone calls were made in astounding numbers to manufacturers. Magazines and cable television outlets and in a matter or a couple of days they all dropped him. The internet is ALIVE with articles and posts from the common man who never before had stood together, unified in this manner. Yes the internet is a powerful tool, we learned something. For years the NRA has told us to do this, for years we have been complacent and went along, depending on the NRA and the Safari Club to do what needed to be done. We paid our dues and figured that was all we could do. Now we know better. What we have done on the internet did more to spur action than all the dues paid and lobbyists could have ever done. I do not believe it will stop here.

If you don’t believe me just get on your computer and search out a hunting or shooting site. On sites that have steered clear of political discussions there are hundreds and thousands of posts calling for us to stand up and be heard. Back in the 60’s politicians ran after the minority “block vote”. And it worked. There is a new block vote in America now, be warned, we will be heard.

Thank you,

[Old Ironsights]

Tom Gresham wonders the same thing:

http://www.guntalk.com/site.php?pageID=15&newsID=12

Tipping Point -- Suicide on the Webby

by Tom Gresham.

Something fascinating just happened. I suspect it will be studied by those who do such things, but at this point, it is clear that last weekend we saw a sea change in the way gun owners react to threats.

If you heard Gun Talk last Sunday, Feb. 18, you heard Jim Zumbo, longtime hunting writer for Outdoor Life, addressing a blog (online comment piece) he wrote. If you didn't hear it, you can download the archive file here: http://guntalk.libsyn.com. It's the February 18 show, "part C."

Jim basically committed career suicide. In short, he wrote in his blog on the Outdoor Life web site that he had just learned (while on a hunt) that some people use AR-15 rifles for hunting. He offered his thought that this was a bad image for hunters. Okay, that's his opinion. But, he went even further, calling for game departments to ban the use of these rifles for hunting. After crossing the line and calling for a banning of those guns for hunting, he firmly planted his foot on a land mine and called AR-15s "terrorist rifles." The explosion from that misstep was heard throughout the firearms industry.

You see, the AR-15 is one of the most popular firearm platforms going. I own three of them and love to shoot them. I don't consider myself a terrorist, and neither do the millions of others who own them and shoot them for recreation, or who own them for personal defense. On "Personal Defense TV" we have been showing that the thinking among security trainers has moved away from the shotgun as the ideal home defense gun, and in many quarters, it now favors the AR-15 or some other carbine (short rifle).

Zumbo had made a mistake from which there was no recovery. He wrote his blog while on a hunting trip. Just before going on the air, I checked the internet forums (fora?) and found a firestorm. People were livid, and with good reason. Some of the comments were clearly over the top, but most of them conveyed the rage that comes from a feeling of being betrayed by someone you thought of as one of your own.

We were only 30 minutes away from going on the air for a live, three-hour broadcast, so I called Zumbo's home. He was still enroute home from his hunting trip and knew nothing about the controversy he had created. I left word that if he wanted to come on the show to make a statement, he could call in.

During the last hour of the show, he decided to go onto Gun Talk, live. He had just posted an apology on the Outdoor Life web site. His explanation was that he just didn't know anything about these rifles, and had no idea that people actually hunted with them. I felt for Jim, but I also knew that in calling for the banning (even if only for hunting) of any gun was incredible, but calling them rifles used by terrorists was, quite simply, unconscionable.

Having just read some of the comments on a few of the online groups where people were posting Zumbo's home address and personal information, calling for . . . well, it was hard to know what they were calling for . . . I made a comment about our willingness to eat our own. Some of that was based on hearing gunnies say that they won't buy Ruger firearms because of something Bill Ruger said two decades ago. Hey, the man is dead and buried.

Still, in this case, I was wrong. That's not what was going on here, as I discovered when I got off the air. To listeners who took offense, I do apologize. The outrage by gun owners is completely understandable. To put it in context, Zumbo's comments came only days after we saw the introduction of a bill in Congress to bring back the Clinton Gun Ban (the so-called "assault weapons" ban). The final nail in the coffin was when-- Sunday afternoon -- the Brady Campaign (the leading group working to restrict gun rights) posted Zumbo's comments to several places on the net, saying, in effect, "See, even the top hunting writer says these rifles have no legitimate use."

At that point, it was all over for Jim Zumbo.

Thousands upon thousands of emails were directed to Remington and all the sponsors of Zumbo's television show on The Outdoor Channel. The emails were all pretty much the same -- dump Zumbo or I'll never buy any of your products. Remington first posted a message saying it was severing all ties with Zumbo. On Monday, the company said it was ending its sponsorship of him. Other companies followed, and it continues. Outdoor Life removed Zumbo's blog, and his apology. Each had generated thousands of comments -- almost all of them hugely negative.

We can take away from this experience several observations.

The first is that this attitude of "just let them take those ugly, black guns" is common among hunters and competitive shooters. Anyone with that attitude is a fool. Sit down with a hunter from England or Australia, hear him tell the story of what happened there, and watch the tears well up in his eyes when he says they never thought the government would take away their hunting guns. To gun banners, there is no such thing as a good gun. They want them all. When Tom Diaz, of the Violence Policy Center, was on Gun Talk, I forced him to admit that he would like to ban all guns. What about the police, I asked. Once we get all the other guns, he said, the police won't need their guns, either.

A ban on black guns, or "Saturday Night Specials," or 50-caliber rifles, is a ban on all our guns. There is no such thing as a bad gun or a good gun. We can't throw babies off the back of the sled, thinking it will keep the wolves away from us.

The next thing we learn from this is that the world has just changed. This entire episode took place inside of 36 hours, on a weekend -- a three-day weekend for President's Day. It happened...and this is important...entirely on the internet. The original posting was on the net, the reaction was on the net, the emails demanding that companies break off with Zumbo were on the net, and the reactions from the companies were all on their web sites. This was completely an internet event. It was a nuclear explosion, with tens of thousands of messages posted, spanning all the firearms-related web sites.

How often over the last 30 years, as I fought for gun rights, traveled to Washington, DC, wrote about gun rights, spoke at the Gun Rights Policy Conference, and for the last 14 years, broadcasted about gun rights on the radio, have I lamented the inability to get gun owners motivated to protect their own rights? This powerful example shows that it can be done.

Now, the real question is whether we can generate that kind of response when we need to defeat a gun ban. Can we melt down mail servers of elected representatives the way gun owners hammered the servers at various companies? I don't know.

What I do know is that we are facing more calls for gun bans and restrictions on our gun rights over the next few years than we have seen in the last 40 years. Someone on the side of gun rights needs to develop a way to replicate this . . . this "Zumbo Effect" . . . to beat back the assault which has already started.

We must find a way to "Zumbo" our attackers in Congress, in the state houses, and wherever they assault our rights.

Tom Gresham

[whisler]

It seems that a new term has been coined in the last week.
"to Zumbo" defined as: exposing someone's misdeeds, calling them to account for their misdeeds, and punishing them for their misdeeds, all by means of electronic media.
There is obviously a lesson for the NRA in all this and I hope they learn it well and quickly. What a show of force in this response to Zumbo.

[leftiye]

It's too bad that Mr. Z stepped in it like he did. I feel definitely sorry for him (been hit by a train lately?). He did it himself, and he had it coming nevertheless.

I suspect that some of the reason for the violent reaction is that we felt betrayed (he WAS supposed to be one of us, after all!). That's too bad too, if we therefore fail to react as violently to the antis. This whole thing has shown us how much power we can wield. We should proceed to continue to get some!

Most of us are not activists because we are apathetic. Well, that's the wrong word. We are inactive because we have been convinced by every level of government that it is useless to try. They don't want to have to listen to us about what we don't like! Nevertheless, this is the cornerstone of our government (gov't. listening to us). Doing what that government in all of its manifestations tells us to do is NOT said cornerstone.

I've said for a while now that we should do away with congress, and do the voting ourselves directly via phone/ computer system. No more having corporations who have no votes get what they want at our expense by buying off our(?) representatives! This incident has made me wonder if the internet might not be able to accomplish the same thing without all of the rigmarole (- sorry Rigamarole).

[357maximum]

I know one thing for sure...the whole dumbo incident has shined some light into some previously dark corners of my brain... I WAS and WILL always do what I can for the cause, like writing my elected officials, but i have never ever never felt it was truly going to be heard, and would/will just recieve an automated response, I feel a little better about the issue now. Now we have to band up and find a way to defeat damba$$es like that McCarthy cu%t and show her what she and her filthy kind are up against.

Michael

[Old Ironsights]

I've said for a while now that we should do away with congress, and do the voting ourselves directly via phone/ computer system. No more having corporations who have no votes get what they want at our expense by buying off our(?) representatives! This incident has made me wonder if the internet might not be able to accomplish the same thing without all of the rigmarole (- sorry Rigamarole).

Oh GHOD NO. There is a reason we don't have a "pure democracy". A pure democracy means simply mob rule.

51% of the popular vote and 49% of the people get screwed.

The Urban Centers would destroy rural America with cockamamie Green Regs and not care - until they realizer that there is no more food.

IMO the only thing better than what we have now would be a Libertarian Rational Anarchy a'la L. Neil Smith, but that ain't never gonna happen

[Larry Gibson]

Yes it IS good that we live in a Republic and not a democracy. Unfortuneately since the advent of President Wilson (D) pushing the League of Nations and spouting the virtues of "democracy" the democrats and now the liberal eduactional system push constantly that we are a democracy. We are not, thank God. We are a Republic and we should educate our children to that fact or we will be part of the 49% "screwed".

As to the "Zumbo effect" it also occured to the two campaign workers for Edwards. Apparently they have also been fired for their blog statements of a couple weeks ago.

Larry Gibson

[Jack Stanley]

I don't feel bad for Zumbo anymore than a politician that wants to impose their elitist views on my home and country . Would writing to them or e-mailing them a letter like this work ? ........ I would be inclined to believe if they haven't listened by now , they ain't real afraid . If it inspires more to get involved in this now , that would be some help . It most likely would mean replacing the republocrats that got us here and finding Americans to take the job .
A local representative keeps calling me everytime he needs money . I keep reminding him of when I offered to pay for some pro-gun advertisment for him and he refused to endorse it . Finance your friends but don't pay the tribute to the pirates . Will we win ? time will tell .... how much do you have ?

Jack

[felix]

"IMO the only thing better than what we have now would be a Libertarian Rational Anarchy a'la L. Neil Smith, but that ain't never gonna happen";;;;; but it might happen if Ron Paul runs again. He is a strong Libertarian with a true Republican spirit in that he supports strong work ethics as when this country got started. There is no one in the USA who backs the origonal Constitution like he does. ... felix

[leftiye]

Iron sights, What (how bad) is the ratio now in this "aristocracy of the rich"? 90 to 99% scrooged, and 1-5%happy?

[leftiye]

I Know that possibly the main reason that the Zumbo thing worked like it did was that it was in the economical realm, - we could and would hurt those particular powers that be if they didn't listen..

The original question was "How do we keep the effect going"? There's your answer, treat the power merchants to some income, or power destroying alternatives if they choose to ignore our wishes. Just as all of those Companies, and magazines saw their profits waning, you have you be believable as a force that can cost them money or elections or something else that they're all about.

[drinks]

I sometimes feel I am spinning my wheels.
I am retired, on a modest but adequate pension and annuities, last year I gave over a thousand dollars to NRA, TSRA, 2nd Amd., CCRKBA, Def-Con, GOA and JPFO, as well as a Senator and 3 out of state gun supporting people running for office.
Things did not seem to get much better and I saw very little sign of others helping.
The Zumbo affair response was encouraging, now a surge of interest is being shown in getting rid of a longtime elitest and back stabber at F&S, Petzel, the infamous person at F&S who , in '94, said hunters should give up the black gun people to the Clinton/Brady gun banners to protect hunting, nothing said about the 2nd. Amd.
It would be so fine if we could get together against the new gun ban bill that has just been introduced in the House.
I do not have the computer knowledge to create a way for us to be able to flood our congress critters with e mails and let them know they are skating on thin ice if they support or vote for the bill, or any other anti Constitutional , anti American bill
If some one who has those skills would do so, I would be happy to support and use it.

[tanstafl10]

drinks,

there IS a way to easily contact elected officials at all levels.... it is the "legislative contact" page on both the NRA and GOA websites.

I am signed up on both of them to receive ALERTS on pending legislation both pro-gun and anti-gun. They make writing to your elected officials very easy. In fact, I use these two systems for non gun related items as well.

most of the time these two organizatons even have pre-written letters for us to email. check it out....

http://www.gunowners.org/

http://www.nraila.org/ActionCenter/

sign up for the Alert system for each website and they automatically let you know when action is needed. I already had the Alert for the new AWB legislation introduced and already sent an email to my representative. I then notified my family members to do same through the GOA Alert web page. These guys make it very easy to be involved at a moments notice.

Take care

[Paul B]

The real issue is not Zumbo's screw up. If it hadn't been for him, it probably would have been somebody else. There's an awfully large group of people who feel as he did and probably still does.
The real issure is the Second Amendment of the Constitution, nothin more, nothing less. The anti-gun people are doing everything they can to circumvent it, and they started in 1934 with the national Firearms act of 1934. Then came that abortion, Hitler's gun law AKA the Gun Control Act of 1968. Senator Dodd, the father, not his idipt also anti-gun son now in office, was part of the Nuremberg trials. he got hold of a copy of Hitler's 1938 (I think that was the year) gun control law. He substituted felons for Jews, but otherwise it's Hitler's law verbatim. Another violaton of the Constitution and other federal BTW. However, my point is all the gun control laws in effect today not only violate the Constitution, but go against other ferderal laws already in effect. Feel free to use any of the below in writing your representatives.

OK, lets discuss the 2nd Amendment. Good idea. It is my carefully considered opinion that the KEY WORDS are MILITIA and PEOPLE.

1. The Militia Act of 1792. One year after the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution, Congress passed a law defining the militia. The Militia Act of 1792 declared that all free male citizens between the ages of 18 and 44 were to be members of the militia. Furthermore, every citizen was to be armed. The act stated:
"Every citizen...[shall] provide himself with a good musket, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints...."

The Militia Act of 1792 made no provision for any type of select militia such as the National Guard.

U.S. Senate Subcommittee Report (1982) "In the Militia Act of 1792, the second Congress defined 'militia of the United States' to include almost every free adult male in the United States. These persons were obligated BY LAW (emphasis mine) to possess a [military style] firearm and a minimum supply of ammunition and military equipmemnt....There can be little doubt from this that when the Congress and the people spoke of the a 'militia,' they had reference to the traditional concept of the entire populace capable of bearing arms, and not to any formal group such as what is today called the national Guard."

Current Federal Law: 10 U.S.C. Sec. 311. "The militia of the Untied States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and...under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States.....

Supreme Court: U.S. v. Miller 1939 In this case, the Court stated that, "The Militia comprised of all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense...[and that] when called for service, these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves AND OF THE KIND IN COMMON USE AT THE TIME. (emphasis mine)
(BTW, Miller lost in court because he did not show up. It was never taken into account that his no show was because he had passed away.)

More on Title 10 of the U.S. Code

UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
Subtitle A - General Military Law
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

Sec. 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 302, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are -

(1) the organized militia which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia;
and

(2) The unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or of the Naval Militia.

Now it took me all of about ten minutes to find all that information. Just go to the Gun Owners of America's website and look for their firearms fact sheet. There's 24 pages of good information there.

I plan on making copies of the above and sending each of my representatives their own personal copy. Feel free to do the same. Maybe, if they get flooded with as many letters with the above as Zumbo's sponsers did on his major foot in mouth problem, the idiots just might get a message. Leave our guns alone.
Paul B.


COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

[Obsolete]

Human nature being what it is...... many people wont bother writing to these elected people on their own. I'm wondering if there was another way of doing this.... does anyone know of a way or a place to do an orginized " Group Writing " program..... sort of like the Group Buys that are available here on this forum ?

Maybe more people would get involved if they see all their internet friends and contacts all taking part on a group level ?

[drinks]

10;
Are you familar with "Numbers USA"?
I sent over 400 faxes and 100 e mails through their system last year, very easy, easy to modify to taste and pretty effective.
Took down Coreyn's last minute play to give illegal alien invaders amnesty in December.

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=drinks;153276]I sometimes feel I am spinning my wheels.
I am retired, on a modest but adequate pension and annuities, last year I gave over a thousand dollars to NRA, TSRA, 2nd Amd., CCRKBA, Def-Con, GOA and JPFO, as well as a Senator and 3 out of state gun supporting people running for office.
Things did not seem to get much better and I saw very little sign of others helping.
QUOTE]

.............Drinks, I know what you're talking about. This is just me, but I feel that contributing to such a wide variety of organizations dilutes the monetary effect. You do not hear in the media about CCRKBA, GOA, 2nd Amend Found or any others. What I hear is the NRA this and the NRA that. I may be simplistic in this but the NRA with it's warts has the profile, the membership and the organization in place to do the most good. The only other pro-gun lobbying and political organization I belong to is the California RIfle and Pistol Assoc.


As a result I make my contibutions to the NRA-ILA, and the NRA's PAC and the CRPA. I made direct political contributions to 4 pro-gun conservative Republicans this past election cycle. Three of them were defeated. Two were from states 1600 miles away. I do NOT make contributions to the Republican National Committee as there are Repiublicans that should be tarred, feathered and run out of town, just as there are several solid pro-gun Democrats.

The NRA has said it many, many times and that is if you are a member, get another member. If 4 million can accomplish a lot, what would 8 or 10 million do? Crap, for that matter what would 20 million do?

...............Buckshot

[Old Ironsights]

"IMO the only thing better than what we have now would be a Libertarian Rational Anarchy a'la L. Neil Smith, but that ain't never gonna happen";;;;; but it might happen if Ron Paul runs again. He is a strong Libertarian with a true Republican spirit in that he supports strong work ethics as when this country got started. There is no one in the USA who backs the origonal Constitution like he does. ... felix

That would certainly help - and he's always had my support.

Now if I could just figure out how to move to the FSP in NH and still be able to eat...

[Old Ironsights]

Iron sights, What (how bad) is the ratio now in this "aristocracy of the rich"? 90 to 99% scrooged, and 1-5%happy?

Can you honestly say we would be better of with NYC, LA, DC, SanFran, Chicago and Seattle running things? :holysheep

That's what you would get in a pure "Democracy". [smilie=b:

[PatMarlin]

10;
Are you familar with "Numbers USA"?
I sent over 400 faxes and 100 e mails through their system last year, very easy, easy to modify to taste and pretty effective.
Took down Coreyn's last minute play to give illegal alien invaders amnesty in December.


gotta link?

[leftiye]

Can you honestly say we would be better of with NYC, LA, DC, SanFran, Chicago and Seattle running things? :holysheep

That's what you would get in a pure "Democracy". [smilie=b:

So who do you think is running it now?

[Old Ironsights]

So who do you think is running it now?

Mostly a bunch of criminals, but at least the "Red States" get SOME representation. They would get NONE in a true "Democracy".

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/statemapredblue.jpg

vs.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/countymaplinear.jpg

The "popular", i.e. "majority" and "democratic" vote is overwhelmingly of socialist bent. Without a Representative/Republic system, we'd already be France.

[montana_charlie]

gotta link?
Pat, if you really want one, I can provide a link to NumbersUSA if you want to be 'active' on the issue of border security.

While it true that they provide an easy way to send communications (faxes mainly) to legislators, the site is geared toward border security and other immigration issues. That is their entire thrust, and the money spent to do the job is supposed to be used for that end.

To divert their resources to another purpose would be...well...unkind.

But, if you (or anybody) wants to write a letter to Congress, you are welcome to use mine (below) as an outline to develop one. Mine is to Congressman Dennis Rehberg of Montana, but (as you can see) we are not very formal up North...
You can reach your representative at http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Hello Denny,

I have read recently that the new majority in Congress wishes to bring back Clinton's Assault Weapons Ban...and it now includes more firearm models than the original.

I am certain that you will resist the motion, but some of your less resolute colleagues may see merit in supporting the measure.
If you cannot change their minds with simple discussion, I would suggest that you have them (or their staff) look at the results when 'Zumbo career' is used as the criteria for a Google search.

The firearm-owning community is no longer a loose affiliation of citizens, and small local clubs, who depend on some rather esoteric leadership from the faraway NRA to protect our rights. We are no longer willing to 'send in those donations' and sit back and hope that 'our message' reaches the right ears. We have learned that we can take direct action to make our case, and that we have influence with the 'sponsors behind public figures'...even if the 'famous' prefer to ignore us.

I don't happen to be one who owns any of the rifles (improperly) classified as 'assault weapons', nor do I have any plans to acquire any. But I will lend my full support to that group of firearms owners, just as I would expect theirs - if Congress decided to move on 'single shot rifles' or 'double barreled shotguns'.

Thank you, Denny, for your past support of The Second Amendment and your actions regarding that in the future.
But, due to the extreme ignorance about firearms among (most) politicians, something like the results of the Zumbo faux pas may be the only thing which will convince them that their best interests lie in the same direction as yours.

With sincerity and appreciation,

Chuck Maxwell
Vaughn, Montana
CM