Tin in bullet alloys? What do you think?

[williamwaco]

This came to mind while responding to 41Mag's posting.

The original "Elmer Keith" et al. recommendations for 16/1 or 20/1 lead/tin calculate out to 6.25% and 5% tin.

I have never used any of those recipes. Back in the '50's when I was starting out, I couldn't afford to buy the tin. Now I could afford enough tin to try it out but I am way to tight to use it on a regular basis.

I have always hoarded linotype as a source of tin and antimony. I don't like to cast with it. I don't like linotype bullets and I don't like the way if flows.

It makes the most georgeous bullets I can imagine. They are crisp, smooth, and shine like the sun. I find casting with linotype to be decidedly unpleasant - messy. It flows like water. It will not make a sprue puddle. It runs off the sprue plate like water and splashes all over everything. it doesn't "drip" out of the bottom pour, it "dribbles". When it lands in the "dribble collector" it splashes all over everything, myself included.

Now the question:

Has any one here actually mixed and cast bullets with an alloy in the range of 16/1 or 20/1? How did it cast?



Curious . . .



.

[Char-Gar]

Sure..Many times and it cast just fine. Each alloy requires a little adjustment in temp and perhaps technique, but these binary alloys work great.

When I started casting way back when, WW was frowned upon as a bullet alloy. The knock on it was that it was dirty and varied to much in composition. Somewhere along the way, folks figured out that if it was melted and fluxed, the dirt could be skimmed off and if you mixed and remixed the various melts and uniform alloy could be hand in sufficient quantity to make it worth while as a bullet alloy.

I started casting in 1950 with these binary alloys, No. 2 I mixed from pig lead, linotype and 50-50 solder and straight linotype.

Back in those days, tin could be found in toothpaste tubes, refrigerator coils and other sources for free.I once lucked into several refrigerators coils that were used to cook kegs of beer in a bar. Lots of pure tin there. Pig lead and solder could be bought at the hardware store for very little money. Linotype was free from the printers I knew. After a while I found I could buy fresh linotype from a local foundry for 20 cent per pound.

This is a long way around to say, that I cast many 1-16, 1-20, 1-30 and even 1-40 bullets "back in the day". I still use 1-20 for cast gas check hollow points in the 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum pistol rounds.

The binary alloys tend to mash and deform on impact whereas the more brittle/harder alloys often shatter on impact.

[44man]

I made a lot of it when I shot BPCR and it casts nice but I would never shoot it in a revolver. Way too soft. Lino is also way too hard.
Lead that soft will slump almost to a full wad cutter and wipe out the GG's before leaving the cylinder.
Elmer liked the stuff but he also used a lot of hard lead.

[Dale53]

I suggest that the "problem" with linotype is trying to cast it at too high a temperature. You can get excellent casting results from lino by lowering the temperature to 600-650 degrees. Linotype came into being because of it's great casting abilities -nothing can touch it for fill out.

That said, I have only used linotype for rifle bullets (my 25/20 will shoot accurately from my Marlin Lever action at nearly 2200 fps wth linotype gas checked bullets).

My "standard" pistol and revolver bullet is cast from ww's+2% tin. However, I cast my hollow point pistol bullets from 20/1 lead/tin for excellent expansion without blowing the nose off the bullet.

I have a good bit of linotype and when the time comes, I will be using it to alloy with scrap lead going for a reasonable alloy for my handguns. Right now, I have enough ww's to keep me going for some time.

FWIW
Dale53

[montana_charlie]

Has any one here actually mixed and cast bullets with an alloy in the range of 16/1 or 20/1? How did it cast?
It casts grease grooved bullets that have corners on the base and driving bands that actually 'feel' sharp.

Your eye can tell you they are well filled, but if you play around with lighting you can usually see the 'corner' actually reflects light. That shows it isn't 'sharp' on a bullet ... just as it indicates that on a blade.

Magnify most of the bullet pictures posted on this forum, and you will see light reflected from most of the various corners.
More tin can cure that.

CM

[Larry Gibson]

I've cast lots of bullets (handgun, rifle and muzzle loader) out of 20-1 and 16-1. Both alloys cast very well indeed and both give excellent accuracy and expansion at nominal BP cartridge, muzzle loader and magnum level handgun velocities in the 1300 - 1600 fps range. Here's some 429642HPs cast of 16-1 for use in my .44 magnum at 1350 fps out of my Ruger FTBH and 1580 fps out of my Contender.

16-1 alloy is my "go to" alloy for my BP 45-70 Rapine 500 gr bullets (1300 fps) and my 375 gr .50 cal Maxi Ball bullets (1570 fps).

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

see what dale said it melts at 100* lower temp it'll pour at a lower temp too.
but saying that i have never,ever needed linotype boolits for anything, even though it is the easiest alloy for me to get.

[sqlbullet]

linotype boolits for anything, even though it is the easiest alloy for me to get.

If you are ever in the SLC area, I would be very interested in trading isotope lead for linotype. That is one alloy I never seem to able to scrounge and am too cheap to pay for.

PM me if you are interested.

[geargnasher]

I've made and used a lot of 16:1, and 20:1. Casts great, makes great HPs, BPCR boolits, many good uses. That being said, there's nothing that 50/50 WW/scrap soft lead won't do better in most cases with smokeless powder, except maybe fill the mould. 50/50 needs to be run hotter in the pot, usually around 725 degrees, and the moulds need to be run fast and hot, usually around 400-420 degrees (light satin frost stage) to get sharp fillout unless you add 1% tin, then you can run your mould a bit cooler but the alloy still needs to be around 700, since the addition of 1% tin only lowers the full-liquidus point about 20 degrees.

If you have lots of lino, just dilute it with roofing lead or similar until it's the hardness you desire, you shouldn't have to include any additional tin unless the lino you have is seriously depleted, as much of it is. Just because it's in lino pigs doesn't mean it hasn't been skimmed to death. I traded for a few pounds of Monotype letters here once, and some of them, no kidding, tested SEVEN bhn with my Lee tester, using the extraplated chart Char-Gar gave me a while back. That stuff must have been recast and skimmed so many times that almost all the tin and antimony was gone.

Gear

[white eagle]

I use 16-1,20-1 whaen I want a boolit to expand
such as a hollow point
even use 16-1 in my muzzleloader cast my real's with it

[Cadillo]

Like some others said, you are casting too hot. The more tin you run, the lower you run your melt temperature. Get your heat down and you will be happy, but why waste the resources, cut the linotype with lead, WW, or other to make it go farther. I've gotten so hooked on using tin or monotype for blending that I don't think I would even remember how to cast straight wheel weights again, and hope I never have to.