How Fast Without Leading in a 16" .357?

[Gray Fox]

I've got a new pair of Rossi 16" .357 carbines to work up loads for (one's my wife's) and I'm wondering how fast I might reasonably push a plain base 158 Lee RNFP or even maybe one of Ranch Dog's 175 grain boolits from one of his molds with a plain base option? My preferred alloy would be WW with added tin, and they could be air cooled or water dropped. Planned lube would be two coats of thinned LLA.

All suggestions and load recommendations will be appreciated. I'm aware of the potential problem with the 175 grain boolit and the 1:30 barrel twist rate, but it might be worth considering.

Just to throw stuff in the game, what are anyone's opinions about using say a 100% load of Lil Gun and putting a card wad under the boolit?

I know I may be trying to make this whole thing too complicated, but it is heading into winter and I will have time to play with this project a bit. Thank, GF

[Reload3006]

I dont have a 357 rifle but do have a 44 mag my experience has been if it shoots good in my pistol it has shot good in my rifle no issues. not to say that you may not have a different sized bore and issues there but load wise no difference.

[pdawg_shooter]

Give them a couple wraps of paper and load as fast as you want.

[Bret4207]

As a general guideline, not a rule at all, PB will often not want to play nice above 12-1400 fps. But many guys here that work on their fit issues are going up to 1800 fps or so IIRC. There is no hard and fast rule on this. Each gun is a law unto itself and if you get a real cast friendly gun you can do all sorts of stuff a cast hating gun won't tolerate.

Shoot it and see, that's the only way to know for sure.

[MtGun44]

Sorry to be flippant, but this is a "How high is up?" type question. WAY too many variables
to have any sort of a firm, meaningful answer.

Maybe a better comparison is "How long do tires last?".

Bill

[357shooter]

My 20 inch Rossi really likes a 358-477 over 5.4 grains of Unique. This mould is lapped and drops the bullet at 160 grains. I esitmate 1100-1200FPS. The trick with this bullet is to use a snug fitted nose punch when lubing it. Your 158 should be close to this combination.

The Lee 358-158-SWC TL shoots great in this gun. I haven't tried the RNFP. The 125 looks promising too.

I also shoot a 180 grain Keith over 13.5 grains of H110. It's a custom mould from Mountain Molds. Anything less than the 13.5 loses some accuracy. That's probably in the 1500FPS neighborhood.

That's all with a 30 inch twist, BHN 8 bullets, with plain bases. Basically, what shoots good in a 357 revolver shoots good in the rifle, mostly.

[singleshot]

Theoretically, you can get 1800 fps out of your rifle with a RD 175.

"Why would you say such a thing?" you may ask? Well, Ranchdog got 1800fps+ out of his Marlins with that bullet.

When it comes to cast boolits, more and more, my philosophy is there's no reason to push a boolit above 1400-1600 and most times 1000fps is just right.

Every bullet I know of will have less wind drift at 1000fps than 1800fps, anyway. Please, check me, since very few will believe this statement. :D

[btroj]

I am shooting the Mihec 360640 at around 1700 with no leading and great accuracy. That is a plain based bullet.
So many things control when leading and accuracy occur so this is a tough question to have a simple answer for. My rifle has given good results with certain loads, don't know if I would make a blanket statement that all guns will do same.

[fecmech]

Using the Lyman 358429 and either Magma hard lube or Carnauba Red over a max load of 296 or WC820 I run a little over 1600 FPS with 3-4 MOA accuracy at 100 yds with no leading problems at all. This is in both a Rossi 20" carbine and 24" rifle. My 20" Winchester 94 is just a tad more accurate with the same load.

[Al_sway]

Well, it was not that complicated with my Rossi .357 Mag M92, with its 20 inch barrel. I cast some Lyman Keith 173 grain SWC with its plain base, out of mongrel alloy, pan lubed it with some Alox Beeswax, a full load of 2400 and it shot fine, getting around 1700 fps (sorry no notes, in Afghanistan right now).
Didn't lap the mould, prep the barrel, sacrifice a rolex watch at the full moon. Still shot well and killed the deer without a fuss.

[Al_sway]

Well, it was not that complicated with my Rossi .357 Mag M92, with its 20 inch barrel. I cast some Lyman Keith 173 grain SWC with its plain base, out of mongrel alloy, pan lubed it with some Alox Beeswax, a full load of 2400 and it shot fine, getting around 1700 fps (sorry no notes, in Afghanistan right now).
Didn't lap the mould, prep the barrel, sacrifice a rolex watch at the full moon. Still shot well and killed the deer without a fuss.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Go to Junior Doughty's (a member here) web site and dread his articles on loading the 357 and leading of th ebarrel. He has already done the worrk. All you have to do is read! And IIRC he also used lil Gun. www.castbullet.com

T-o-m

[Gray Fox]

Thanks for all the input, folks, I'll try a few different combos and let you know what happens. Obviously, reasonable velocity and decent accuracy, with minimal leading is the goal. GF

[mack1]

Theoretically, you can get 1800 fps out of your rifle with a RD 175.


Every bullet I know of will have less wind drift at 1000fps than 1800fps, anyway. Please, check me, since very few will believe this statement. :D

where would I check this most of the time wind drift is dependant on time in flight and cross section. How will simply slowing a boolet reduce wind drift? I may be wrong but this has been my understanding.

[fecmech]

where would I check this most of the time wind drift is dependant on time in flight and cross section. How will simply slowing a boolet reduce wind drift? I may be wrong but this has been my understanding.
Go to a wind drift calculator and plug in the numbers yourself. Wind drift increases as velocity increases over 1000 fps and is highest at around 1400 fps and then decreases from that point until around 2100 fps where it is the same as it was at 1000 fps. Wind drift is dependent on delay in time of flight, not time of flight. Delay in time of flight is the difference between time of flight to target in a vacuum and the time of flight in air. You can play with this calculator.
http://handloads.com/calc/index.html

[singleshot]

In addition to what fecmec said, faster than the speed of sound, air acts more like water than air. Drag increases DRAMATICALLY. Imagine crossing a stream in 10mph water up to your neck vs. walking in a 10mph side wind and you begin to get the conceptual picture.

[Blammer]

use bluedot and get them up to about 1250fps, no problems.

[mack1]

Go to a wind drift calculator and plug in the numbers yourself. Wind drift increases as velocity increases over 1000 fps and is highest at around 1400 fps and then decreases from that point until around 2100 fps where it is the same as it was at 1000 fps. Wind drift is dependent on delay in time of flight, not time of flight. Delay in time of flight is the difference between time of flight to target in a vacuum and the time of flight in air. You can play with this calculator.
http://handloads.com/calc/index.html

Thanks for the link, I have not noticed this wind drift window seems to be much larger with lower bc boolits and lower altitudes. One more reason to use slow heavy boolits Thanks again.