water drop

[dave391]

This is my first post, and if it is in the wrong place would you please move it, thanks.
When I water drop I wait 14 days before I size & lube. Does this soften the surface ? What if you size & lube right after casting, will They still get hard in 14 days ?:???:

[Recluse]

Howdy and welcome.

Whenever I water-drop, I size them the same day. As far as lubing them goes, it depends on how I'm going to lube them.

Tumble-lubing, it doesn't matter--there's no stress put on the boolit.

All of my rifle caliber boolits get sized and gas checked same day they are cast, but I use the Lee push-through sizers for that. Then I lube-only in one of the lubesizers using a die that is .001 larger than what I previously sized the boolit. All that does is apply lube.

On some of the calibers that I size and lube in one process, most of those are handgun calibers and I rarely water-drop those. On the occasions I do, I size/lube the same day.

The hardening process takes a week or so, so I prefer to "work" the boolits as soon as possible after casting, then leave them alone.

:coffee:

[dave391]

Thanks for the info. I will size & lube same day. Thats what I wanted to do anyway :)

[sqlbullet]

This is a matter of significant debate on the forum. In general, due to the lack of empirical evidence either way, I tend to size sooner rather than later.

This is for two reasons. First, the boolits aren't fully hardened yet, and it is easier to size them.

Second, in the remote chance there is a real effect on hardness that matters, I probably interfere less.

That all said, the rifling in most of my guns measures about .004" in depth. Most of the boolits I cast are .001"±.0005" over the final size. This means at most I am directly effecting the lead to a depth of .00075" or about 1/6th as deep as the rifling will cut. I don't really think it will make a measurable difference in my boolits when I size them in relation to how hard they are or how they shoot. Event testing the hardness is questionable since the indentation will be 6 or 8 times as deep as the sizing.

If I were casting a 314299 that fell from the mold .315" and then sizing it down to .310" before loading, I might have a greater concern.

However, they have to be sized, and no sense in putting it off. It may have a measurable effect, and sizing promptly minimizes it.

[caseyboy]

I size just after casting. I give the whole works a shot of WD-40, and swirl/tumble lube them and then run through a Lee push thru sizer. Gas checks and lubing come whenever I need them to load. I think that the sooner you size them, the easier it is and the less you will work soften the age hardening.

[MtGun44]

Interesting that WD-40 works as lube for boolits, it is a great way to stick a case in a die.
Not much of a WD-40 fan for anything. Used to use it for a lot of stuff. The more I used it
the less I liked it. But - if it works for that, then good news.

Bill

[randyrat]

Yes, size as soon as possible. I believe the theory of age hardening and seems if i work them over soon as possible, less hardness is disturbed.

I used to have several cans of WD40, now I hate and despise the stuff. There has to be some use for it, but none for me. I remember, it worked on fishing baits as a attractant. I think now it is illegal to use it for fishing.

[caseyboy]

Hey Bill it works great for running boolits thru the sizer. The idea is not mine, it is on Ranch Dog's site for his "dipping" technique.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Dave391,

Bruce, - BABore - here on the Cast Boolits forum, made my most recent mold, a 465/.462 WFN for my 45/70.

In talking to him, he recommended that I water quench and then size as soon as possible.

He also recommended that I have a Lee style push through die for the sizing and seating of the gas checks and a luber/sizer die of just slightly larger dia. for lubing.

The lubing can be done when ever, as with the larger dia luber die the boolit is not worked during that process.

Bruce said to allow the boolits to age minimum of 7 days before use, with 14 days being better.

He also said that he had tested boolits with a hardness tester after quenching and a few days of aging and the tester said they were correctly hardened.

HOWEVER, he said his rifle told a different story and really recommends at least 14 days - minimum - before use.

The alloy he was suggesting I use for this boolit, is 50/50 - Wheel Weights/lead.

Must be something to what he says, as following his recommendations for the use of his mold & boolits, the rifle is shooting better then it ever has.

You will find a wealth of info on this forum, with many experienced casters/shooters willing to share from their years of experience.

Welcome aboard! Be prepaired to share and learn!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[243winxb]

Lyman FAQ
Q: Is there anything I can do to make the bullets harder?
A: Cast bullets can be heat treated to increase their hardness providing your alloy has some antimony present. To heat treat your bullets: Cast your bullets in the normal manner, saving several scrap bullets. Size your bullets but do not lubricate them. Place several scrap bullets on a pan in your oven at 450 degrees and increase the temperature until the bullets start to melt or slump. Be sure to use an accurate oven thermometer and a pan that will not be used again for food. Once the bullets start to melt or slump, back off the temperature about 5 to 10 degrees and slide in your first batch of good bullets. Leave these in the oven for a half hour. Remove the bullets from the oven and plunge them into cool water. Allow them to cool thoroughly. When you are ready to lubricate, install a sizing die .001" larger than the one used to initially size them. This will prevent the sides of the bullets from work-softening from contact with the sizing die. Next apply gas checks if required and lubricate. These are now ready for loading. 2% antimony hardens fully in 2 weeks. Higher % fully hardens faster. 6% will fully harden in less then 1 hour.

[kelbro]

Dave391,

Bruce, - BABore - here on the Cast Boolits forum, made my most recent mold, a 465/.462 WFN for my 45/70.

In talking to him, he recommended that I water quench and then size as soon as possible.

He also recommended that I have a Lee style push through die for the sizing and seating of the gas checks and a luber/sizer die of just slightly larger dia. for lubing.

The lubing can be done when ever, as with the larger dia luber die the boolit is not worked during that process.

Bruce said to allow the boolits to age minimum of 7 days before use, with 14 days being better.

He also said that he had tested boolits with a hardness tester after quenching and a few days of aging and the tester said they were correctly hardened.

HOWEVER, he said his rifle told a different story and really recommends at least 14 days - minimum - before use.

The alloy he was suggesting I use for this boolit, is 50/50 - Wheel Weights/lead.

Must be something to what he says, as following his recommendations for the use of his mold & boolits, the rifle is shooting better then it ever has.

You will find a wealth of info on this forum, with many experienced casters/shooters willing to share from their years of experience.

Welcome aboard! Be prepaired to share and learn!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot


This alloy and process works very well for me.

[1Shirt]

Have always sized and checked on the same day I cast and water drop. Or if something interfers, the next day for sure.

With rifle blts that I am particular about like the 22's, I check and size in a push thru lee, then later (same day if I have the time. Lube in a Lyman lube sizer. Extra step I know, but espically on the little guys, I feel I get the most consistancy this way because I inspect them twice before they are sized. The first inspection is when I put them on a towel to dry after I pull them out of the water, and spread them out. Obvious defects are easily spotted at this point for recycle. The second inspection is when I put the check on as that is blt by blt, and allows for critical eyeballing. A third inspection is when I weigh them, for any that are not within 1/2 grain of mean, and I seperate in lots that are exactly the same weight for 22's and 6mm's. Am not as fussy about cals above 6mm, and settle for inspection weight groups of three tenths of a grain for up to 8MM or so in rifle blts. I do not weigh pistol or revolver blts.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[mongo]

I have a question about water dropping, If I water drop my boolits to harden them, Does the hardness penetrate the boolit or is it like case hardening where it is only the top layer of materal that gets hardened? The reason I am asking is, I use a Lee push threw sizer on my boolits and tumble lube with Recluse's recipy of 45/45/10. If I am scrapeing off the hardness in the push threw die, I coud skip the water dropping step as it would be of no use.

[btroj]

The hardness isn't clear thru but is deep enough that sizing isn't a big problem.

I ct and size when I can. Rarely are things sized same day as cast, usually a week or so later, or more. I have to fit my hobby in around work and family so I make it work.

[243winxb]

If I water drop my boolits to harden them, Does the hardness penetrate the boolit or is it like case hardening where it is only the top layer of materal that gets hardened? Tests show that a 158gr 38 bullet is hardened all the way thru. Larger bullets will not be. Sizing after heat treatment will work-soften the bullet. The lands cut into the surface of the bullet about .004" This is the area you are softening.

[mpmarty]

The only sizing my boolits get is when they go through the barrel of my firearm.

I do cast and load for a friend who has a Ruger #1 with a stupid tight throat. My as cast lbts are right at .460 and his Ruger won't swallow them without using a wooden dowel and pounding them into the chamber so the falling block can rise and close. For his persnickety piece of Ruger engineering I've ordered a .457 push through die from LEE. We'll see what that does to his performance, I know they won't work in either of our Marlins.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

mpmarty,

I also shoot one of those RUGER #1s and love it. :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

The throat on this 45/70 is much shorter then those on other #1s I've had before.

I tried a 355gr LBT/WFN boolit and some rounds gave problems seating even after I had the throat opened just a tiny bit.

However, boolits cast from a mold made by Bruce - BABore - 465/.465 WFN normally give no chambering problems.

Send me a PM with mailing address etc., and I could send you a few sample boolits to try in your buddies rifle.

Just took my 4th cast boolit critter with a cast boolit and the 45/70 #1, yesterday at about 3:10 in the afternoon. So ends a sucessful season with the 45/70.

Really impressed how these WFN boolits take game. The elk taken earlier made me into a real believer!!!!!! Wanted to have a clean side to side shot for a double lunger on a critter, as the two other deer I have taken were hit a touch high and into the spine and the elk was a quartering shot.

Wanted to see the effects of the double lung shot with nothing more then maybe a rib in the way. However, although I had that shot oppertunity yesterday, I also had a very solid rest and a known 100yds, so just did a head shot. Don't normally do that, and sure don't recommend them, but in this case it sure was final. DRT to the max!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not having a Marlin to compair, not sure if the LBT 355gr boolits would do OK in a Marlin or not. Have some of those sitting here also.

Two deer and One elk this year, so I am a happy Ol'Coot! :bigsmyl2:

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot