Another 35 Whelen praise report

[outdoorfan]

No pictures. I did shoot another three deer (all does) with the Whelen this November, and they all died within 40 yards or less (one in its tracks) of the impact zones at ranges from 240-290 yards. This cartridge just flat-out performs with ease. Boolit was the same as last year (250 grain LFN at 2350 muzzle velocity). Ridiculously easy to shoot this gun. It makes me look good. :bigsmyl2: Can't believe more people don't shoot the 35 Whelen, especially with cast.

[jhalcott]

Yes , the Whelen IS a great cartridge! They asked me HOW much of the deer did I intend to bring back when they saw what I was using. I punched a neat hole thru MY deer and there was a LOT left to eat. The guys with the little 7mags had a different result!

[outdoorfan]

I punched a neat hole thru MY deer and there was a LOT left to eat. The guys with the little 7mags had a different result!


Yes, indeed! Very little meat was lost and the deer died very quickly with MAJOR blood trails starting within a few feet of impact. And this from a flat-nosed boolit travelling at only 1300-1500 fps at impact. Very impressed. Last year I was astounded and didn't know if the results were repeatable. This year I am for sure convinced. The only real hurdle (when shooting at those ranges) is figuring boolit drop. Accuracy isn't the problem with these .35's w/ 14" twist.

[JesterGrin_1]

I have to agree that I also like my 35 Whelen. But at this point have only shot one Hog with it.But it was with the Speer 250Gr Hot-Core. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1473871#post1473871

When Hunting season is over I am going to work on some cast loads for it.

[outdoorfan]

I have to agree that I also like my 35 Whelen. But at this point have only shot one Hog with it.But it was with the Speer 250Gr Hot-Core. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1473871#post1473871

When Hunting season is over I am going to work on some cast loads for it.

Yes, definitely try cast. Fill the throat of that gun and watch it shoot MOA. RL-15 all the way, no filler.

[JesterGrin_1]

I have the BRP 360-225 but I can not seat it out far enough to fit the throat and lands and fit my Magazine. But I also have the 358009 of which will fill the throat and lands no problem and fit in the Magazine. I plan to use the RL-15 for that as well. Just need to figure out where to start with the RL-15 and work up.

[RBak]

I would certainly like to hear more on the 358009 using RL15 in the Whelen.

I love the Whelen!
And, I love shooting cast boolits in it.
I have killed several deer and two Elk with the lowly cast boolit, and there was never any doubt, or any discussion, about whether they were dead enough or not.

And, as was mentioned earlier, the guys with Mag's in camp did have a little different story.

Russ

[richhodg66]

I have the BRP 360-225 but I can not seat it out far enough to fit the throat and lands and fit my Magazine. But I also have the 358009 of which will fill the throat and lands no problem and fit in the Magazine. I plan to use the RL-15 for that as well. Just need to figure out where to start with the RL-15 and work up.

I haven't had real good luck with the 358009 in my rifle (Remington 700). I heard the twist is slower in Remington barrels, maybe it's true but I need to work with mine a while before I give up on that bullet, it sure looks like it'd be a hammer.

[JesterGrin_1]

I heard the same thing about the Remington 700 with the 1-16 twist. That is why I had mine built with a 1-14 twist. I felt it would be a good compromise between the 1-16 and 1-12.

I have tried the BRP 360-220 RNFP/GC with H-4350 as suggested in another thread. And even though with a little powder work I am sure it would be a good shooter. But that H-4350 burns so darn HOT compared to RL-15.

So when I have time I plan to try out the RL-15 with the 358009.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/Marlin%20XL-7%20build%20to%2035%20Whelen/35Whelen4.jpg

[swheeler]

Gotta love the 35 Whelen, guess I should dust her off and take her out for a walk more often.

[white eagle]

my son has a whelen and loves it
I shoot a 358 win but lately been using my 45-70
glad to hear the good stories

[JesterGrin_1]

Can anyone give me an idea for Starting charges of RL-15 for the 358009 in a 35 Whelen?

I did call Alliant Powder Co. And there rep would not even venture a guess. He said he would not recommend going above a 250Gr bullet lol. Since that is the heaviest bullet that they have information for. I also threw in the Woodleigh Bullets in hopes they would have something but nope.

[swheeler]

I would just use Barnes start data for 300gr. Reloader 15, 300 gr Barnes 51.0-2296 to 55.0-2444 fps

[JesterGrin_1]

WoW that sounds high since the Max for the 250Gr Speer is 54.OGr of which is a Max load in my Shaw Barrel 35 Whelen with the Speer 250Gr Hot Core.

Well Heck even Woodleigh has 57.OGr of RL-15 for there .358” 310gr RN SN and says to reduce that by 5% for starting charges.

So I think that at 51.OGr of RL-15 would be a good start point?

But maybe since I will be shooting the 358009 of which is lead with a gas check it may have lower pressures than the jacketed type?

[RBak]

I would just use Barnes start data for 300gr. Reloader 15, 300 gr Barnes 51.0-2296 to 55.0-2444 fps

I had asked the question earlier on so I also appreciate that information.

I would sure like to hear from anyone else that has ever used RL-15 and the 358009. When this thread started I was looking through my notes and I found that same information, but it was something I had written down "I think" from Paco Kelly's notes or some such, anyway I was not real sure of its source.

You know, it has been said that bullet weight can make the gun. I believe that to be true in some respects. The 130gr in the .270, the 87gr in the 250-3000, the 180gr in the 30-06, and so on....well, I think it's the heavy weights, the 250 grainers and above, that makes the Whelen a real Whelen.

I know all the stories about the 225gr jacketed "tracking like a laser", and the pistol bullets "exploding like dynamite" on varmints, but, IMO, it's in the heavy weights where the Whelen really comes into a gun all its own, and none do it very much better than the 358009 in my opinion.

Russ

[midnight]

There is a group buy going on right now for the 358009 and also one for the 245gr 358318. I worked up to 55.5gr IMR4064 behind the 225gr Sierra for 2479fps in a 22in Kreiger barreled Rem 700. Plan to try RL15 next. The 358009 group buy won't arrive til next summer so I should be able to get a deer load worked up.

Bob

[waksupi]

I had asked the question earlier on so I also appreciate that information.

I would sure like to hear from anyone else that has ever used RL-15 and the 358009. When this thread started I was looking through my notes and I found that same information, but it was something I had written down "I think" from Paco Kelly's notes or some such, anyway I was not real sure of its source.

You know, it has been said that bullet weight can make the gun. I believe that to be true in some respects. The 130gr in the .270, the 87gr in the 250-3000, the 180gr in the 30-06, and so on....well, I think it's the heavy weights, the 250 grainers and above, that makes the Whelen a real Whelen.

I know all the stories about the 225gr jacketed "tracking like a laser", and the pistol bullets "exploding like dynamite" on varmints, but, IMO, it's in the heavy weights where the Whelen really comes into a gun all its own, and none do it very much better than the 358009 in my opinion.

Russ


I agree. Go with a boolit between 250 and 300 gr. in a .35 bore, and you can conquer the world.

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok GREAT since we are on the subject of the 358009 and with all due respect after doing a search over months on the forum about the 358009 And the 35 Whelen there is not all that much info about it to be honest. So maybe we can work on that info in this thread together. I think it would greatly help the New People with the 35 Whelen and the 358009 along with others that are thinking about getting the 358009.

So my next question is how do you decide how hard to push said BOOLIT into the lands of the barrel?

I made up a piece of brass with a slit cut on both sides of the neck to enable me to place a bullet into the brass and then gently chamber it in the rifle of which would give me the O.A.L. of the cartridge. But how much longer should I make the round to engrave into the rifling?

I would like to add that I am using a 1-14 twist barrel at this time. :)

[outdoorfan]

Please nobody take this as an insult. I don't know it all, so maybe there's something I'm missing here. BUT, why in the world is the 358009 so popular? Granted, I have never tried it. All I see is a heavy-for-caliber design that is round-nosed and will have the ballistic coefficient of a brick. I don't get it. I would rather have some BC, along with a flat nose. There's gotta be way better options. Once again, I don't get it.

[waksupi]

Please nobody take this as an insult. I don't know it all, so maybe there's something I'm missing here. BUT, why in the world is the 358009 so popular? Granted, I have never tried it. All I see is a heavy-for-caliber design that is round-nosed and will have the ballistic coefficient of a brick. I don't get it. I would rather have some BC, along with a flat nose. There's gotta be way better options. Once again, I don't get it.


Heavy for bore size is always a good idea. You have the wrong idea on the flight capabilities of this boolit. I have shot it at long range, and it retains accuracy and power very well. Once they get moving, they want to keep moving!

[JesterGrin_1]

These might help.

http://35cal.com/35whelen.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

But like said in so many threads the twist of the rifle will also determine how heavy of a bullet one can use. With the 358009 you need at least a 1-14 twist even though a few have done fine with there Remingtons that come factory with a 1-16 Twist.

Also the 358009 may not look like it will do all that well. But with a bore ride nose and with so much contact with the bore and its weight it gives much better long distance accuracy than one might think. Just take the time to read those two articles. Sure they are a little out of date but still great information.

But that is why I had mine built with a 1-14 twist barrel so I can shoot the 250Gr as well as the 290Gr cast.

When I have the chance to cast some of the 358009 and use RL-15 in my whelen I will start a new page on my findings. With some help with Ben here on the forum if you wish to try I am going to start with 45.0 Gr of RL-15 powder in Remington Brass sized from .270 brass and use a WOLF LRP and work up the load to the best accuracy.

Ok what the heck I will add more information to maybe help out a few that question heavy for caliber Cast BOOLITS.

You can really only push a cast BOOLIT so fast as compared to its jacketed counterpart. So why not go up in BOOLIT weight to enable one to still push it hard if one wishes yet still stay in the speed range needed to be conducive to accurate shooting. Plus you will have lots of knock down powder by doing so.

Just look at the old 45-70 pushing those BIG HEAVY Cast BOOLITS. They only moved around 1200-1300 FPS but they almost exterminated the Buffalo with them.

Sorry if all this was a bit much lol.

[richhodg66]

That's an interesting article. I'm suprised that he mentions Winchester 760 doing so well with the 358009, seems like a slow powder for the .35 Whelen.

I don't have it in front of me, but I think the Lee manual I have gives data for bullets of that weight using AA8700 which I have a lot of. If I remember right, it didn't give real high velocities, something like 1700 FPS, but that would sure get the job done on anything I'm likely to shoot with it. Thus far, I've only used that stuff in 7mm Mag, maybe I should give it a try in the Whelen.

[JesterGrin_1]

I have found for the most part that reloading manuals do not push cast very fast.

Go ahead and try the powder you have it might work out. And what the heck will give you a reason to get to a range and have some fun if not for anything else but to hear a BIG BOOM lol.

[midnight]

If there is data for AA8700, WC872 should work also. It may work out that you can't get too much powder in the case to cause trouble.

Bob

[RBak]

While we're still somewhat on this subject, does anyone know the BC of the 358009?

I've read the formula, tried to apply it a few times, and became so frustrated with my answers that I totally gave up on it.

Russ

[outdoorfan]

Okay, but you didn't address the "round-nosed" issue?

[Nrut]

outdoorfan,
I agree with you on the bullet weight, especially for deer..
I prefer a lighter, faster bullet for flatter shooting and less recoil..

[JesterGrin_1]

Some more good reading if you go down to The .358's http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

And more http://fiveshot.org/backissues/paco/fcl3.htm

RBak the BC for the Lyman 358009 is .270 as read in the above link By PACO.

Outdoorfan I have given a bunch of information along with some links for more along with many threads on this very forum that can be searched. Nor I or anyone else will try and convince you to use the heavy for caliber Boolits for anything that you shoot. But search out information and do some load work and come to your own conclusion and follow which ever road you see fit.

NRut you are correct in that if you are worried about speed vs Recoil then the lighter BOOLITS may do what you are looking for. But we are still held by the same speed restraints for cast BOOLITS no matter the weight of the projectile.

Felt Recoil and its effects is different for each individual. Some can accept a great deal of recoil while others can not. This is not a bad or good thing its just an individual thing. But I will say the more you shoot with the same weapon and increase the amount of recoil said weapon may have gradually you will get more comfortable with it.

Just like if you take someone out shooting for the first time you would not hand them say a 338 Mag to start out with but gradually work up in caliber to the caliber that they would need to accomplish there individual task at hand.

[waksupi]

You will find the heavy boolits, along with giving complete penetration, do not destroy nearly as much meat. A boolit with a round nose or flatter, is the most efficient for hunting. Read Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartridges".

[greywuuf]

a RN in addition to being wonderful for penetration and creating a large wound channel ( without the high speed shock wave effect) is also going to be shorter overall than an equall weight bullet with a sharper profile, many times a RN can be used in a marginal twist rate, it is not the length per se of the boolit that dictates the twist... it is the distance from the center of mass to the nose... RN is much less "unbalanced" than a pointy bullet and will be stable with less twist. ( think of throwing anything.. the "heavy end" naturally "wants" to go first... the more pointy it is the farther the heavy end is from the front and the worse the tendency to turn over is )

I don't think a RN in a large caliber is nearly as much of a "handicap" as one might think. Full jacket round ball military loads got a bad rap back in the beginning of hand guns, but that is kind of a different story

Dan

[RBak]

RBak the BC for the Lyman 358009 is .270 as read in the above link By PACO.

Thanks a million JG!
Really good reading tonight, the first link I have visited several times over the years, but that second link was pure dynamite IMO.

Thanks again, Russ

Russ

[JesterGrin_1]

Anytime as I said before I had my 35 whelen and even after and now I search out all of the info on the 35 Whelen I can find of which makes me appreciate the 35 Whelen more and more of what it was and what was thought of it till today. Too bad only a few know about how good the 35 Whelen really is.

I would also add the 358 Winchester. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

Thanks a million JG!
Really good reading tonight, the first link I have visited several times over the years, but that second link was pure dynamite IMO.

Thanks again, Russ

Russ

I would like to add that since you have the BC of the 358009 you can go to the Hornady Ballistics Calculator and input the information and get the projected range and drop at range. :) http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator

[RBak]

I don't think a RN in a large caliber is nearly as much of a "handicap" as one might think.

Not at all, I have reached a point in life where I'm convinced I prefer them....a heavy for caliber bullet with a long bearing surface and round nose will put meat on the table when others fail, and JesterGrin described both his feelings and my own, it is a personal thing that every man has to work out for himself.
If there is an "issue" with the round nose on the 358009, I am not astute enough to realize it.

Russ

[Nrut]

NRut you are correct in that if you are worried about speed vs Recoil then the lighter BOOLITS may do what you are looking for. But we are still held by the same speed restraints for cast BOOLITS no matter the weight of the projectile.
----------------------------------------------------------
Jester,
Paper patched bullets change the game..:wink:

As far as round nose vs flat nose goes I have and use both but my PP mold is a FN so that is what I use now as it shoots the best at high vel.....

According to extensive tests using solids the flat nose out penetrates the round nose by a wide margin because round noses lose stability and veers off course and often tumbles..
LINK: http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4711043/m/2861098911/p/1

But does this info apply to cast bullets whose nose shape may change after impact?
I don't know..

Outdoorfan was shooting deer up to 290 yds and any .35 cal. bullet would do the deed if you can make a good hit, but at that extended range and lower vel. I would op for a flat nose myself or a round nose with the nose annealed..

The problem with discussions like this is that we tend focus only on our own hunting situation and discount what others think is best for their hunting situation..
Then the debate starts..[smilie=l:
I think one thing that we can all agree on is that the .35 is one of the better all around cast bullet hunting calibers and that is all that matters to me..

[outdoorfan]

You will find the heavy boolits, along with giving complete penetration, do not destroy nearly as much meat. A boolit with a round nose or flatter, is the most efficient for hunting. Read Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartridges".

I've never hunted heavy game. I do understand that African hunters use round noses for the big beasties. On this forum all I hear is "flat meplat".

[outdoorfan]

outdoorfan,
i agree with you on the bullet weight, especially for deer..
I prefer a lighter, faster bullet for flatter shooting and less recoil..

10-4!!!

[outdoorfan]

[QUOTE=
I think one thing that we can all agree on is that the .35 is one of the better all around cast bullet hunting calibers and that is all that matters to me..[/QUOTE]


Yep, agreed.

I personally don't dislike that some of you like the 358009 so much. I just don't understand why. But, if your hunting ranges are limited then just about anything will work, right? The boolit I use is my own design. It, I'm sure, has plenty of flaws. I actually want more BC, as the BC on my design sucks bigtime. I can push my boolit to 2350 fps with excellent accuracy. I bet you'd get no where near that with the 358009. Trajectory will take a hit.

As to penetration, like I said, I have no experience with round-nosed boolits. However, I think every testimony from first-hand experience I have read on this forum says that round-nosed boolits have more of a tendency to not track straight in flesh.

My ideal would be to push a 240-260 grain boolit to 2400-2500 fps with good accuracy and enough BC to not have to hold over so much at 300 yards. LOL!

Bass Ackward likes the Whelen too, and he has said he much prefers to use boolits in the 210-230 range simply because they are easier to shoot faster/accurately with softer lead while at the same time are plenty devastating on just about anything we would realistically every get a chance to shoot (moose, elk). How much weight is really needed? My gut feeling tells me my 250 grainer is overkill already, as far as weight goes. I would only desire a 280-300 grain boolit if the heavy dangerous beasties of Africa or Alaska were on the menu.

To each their own.

[waksupi]

Well, I shoot them at around 2070 fps, and if you compare that to any thing the factory ever loaded, you will see it is an extremely powerful load.
As far as them not tracking straight, I have used them on deer, elk, and buffalo, with good straight wound channel. You must have some tough deer to shoot!
Until you have personal experience with this type boolit, you are just guessing, and not listening to those with experience. I've wasted enough time on it.

[bstarling]

I have been working with a 246 gr Hunters Supply hard case with a gas check and a load of 55 grains RL15. It shoots well and I've had no leading issues. I have no idea what mold is used making these, but it surely is working for me.

Bill

here is a link to the posting: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=133184

[RBak]

Bill, I would suspect that mold to be a SAECO 352, and would you believe I just came in from the shop loading that exact same load!

Russ

[white eagle]

hooray
my son has let me use his model 700 rem
in 35 Whelen for this Saturdays hunt

[JesterGrin_1]

Go Get them. And do not forget the camera :).

I did plan to go hunt this weekend but we are expecting Rain darn it. And where I hunt if it rains you are stuck lol. 12 Mi from asphalt and I do not have a 4 Wheel drive. Oh well there is still time. :)

[outdoorfan]

Well, I shoot them at around 2070 fps, and if you compare that to any thing the factory ever loaded, you will see it is an extremely powerful load.
As far as them not tracking straight, I have used them on deer, elk, and buffalo, with good straight wound channel. Excellent! You must have some tough deer to shoot! No, and I don't get your point. My comments were that large overweight boolits weren't necessary.
Until you have personal experience with this type boolit, you are just guessing (Correct, and stated that I had no personal experience with them), and not listening to those with experience. I thought I had listened to those with experience saying that round-nosers didn't penetrate as straight as flat-nosers. That's all, and I don't have enough experience with this stuff to have a strong opinion in this matter I've wasted enough time on it. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. I don't get it.


Been awhile since I've been on the forum.

[outdoorfan]

hooray
my son has let me use his model 700 rem
in 35 Whelen for this Saturdays hunt

Get one?!

[Figment]

I have used the 358009 boolit in my custom 35 Brown - Whelen for the last forty years and have not found a better boolit or more accurate . This is with a 1 in 16 twist . Love the 35

[RobS]

Well, I shoot them at around 2070 fps, and if you compare that to any thing the factory ever loaded, you will see it is an extremely powerful load.
As far as them not tracking straight, I have used them on deer, elk, and buffalo, with good straight wound channel. You must have some tough deer to shoot!
Until you have personal experience with this type boolit, you are just guessing, and not listening to those with experience. I've wasted enough time on it.

:-|

Well it can obviously go both directions, but darn. The thread located in the Hunting with CB section started out as one being about the sharing and experience of the 35 Whelen cartridge and its effects on deer at the mid to upper 200 yard range. Outdoorfan, thanks for sharing!!!:mrgreen:

[outdoorfan]

:-|

Well it can obviously go both directions, but darn. The thread located in the Hunting with CB section started out as one being about the sharing and experience of the 35 Whelen cartridge and its effects on deer at the mid to upper 200 yard range. Outdoorfan, thanks for sharing!!!:mrgreen:

Hey, thanks, Rob! Maybe next year you'll have a chance to get the .375 all bloodied up!! :mrgreen:

[RobS]

outdoorfan, I'm just glad you managed to get out and go hunting. I've not been for a very long time now............it would be great to sling some lead at a deer!!!

[richhodg66]

I have used the 358009 boolit in my custom 35 Brown - Whelen for the last forty years and have not found a better boolit or more accurate . This is with a 1 in 16 twist . Love the 35

What kind of loads do you use with that bullet? I have the mold and haven't gotten that bullet to do real well in my Remington 700 yet.