Belling 30-30 case mouths?

[happyfast79]

I just got done working up some loads for my 30-30 marlin 336 with ranch dog 165 bullets and noticed that when i load them it shaves some of the tumble lube groves off the bullet. bullets are sized to .311 and case mouths a chanferd but not belled like my 45 auto cases . so my question, is this ok and if not what do you guys do different??

i settled on 31.5 gr of ramshot tac as it gave a 2.3" group @50 yards with factory iron sites,, i worked from 30- 32.5 gr in .5 gr increments. and had very little lead on the patch when i stuck it through dry.

[atr]

I think you should put just enough of a bell to start the boolit....I load for the 30-30 and have found it necessary to do so..I usually bell just enough to start the boolit gas check

[rayzer]

Get a Lyman M die. That will fix it.

[405]

#2 for Lyman M die. Learn how to set it and use it. Then wonder why you didn't use one all along.

[Mk42gunner]

While the Lyman M die (or custom copies) are the best way, there are other ways to bell the case mouth. Also check the dimensions, I believe you will have better luck with the .31 cal M die than the .30 caliber one.

You can use a set of needle nose pliers to slightly expaed the mouth with a gentle twist.

I have used the expander botton from a larger caliber resizing die.

The expander plug from a set of RCBS .30 Carbine dies will bell most cases from .30 cal to .45 Colt. This is what I use most often, until I can get the proper M die.

Robert

[462]

Another vote for Lyman's M-die with a 31R expander plug.

[303Guy]

For what it's worth, you can bell the mouth just as much as the chamber will allow it to enter and that can be quite a bit. Not good for the brass, though. And not necessary! Now I seat pretty tight fitting paper patched boolits with only the chamfer. Perhaps you are sizing too small for the boolit?

[peerlesscowboy]

Get a Lyman M die. That will fix it.

RCBS also makes a case mouth expander die.

John C. Saubak

[quilbilly]

I bell the mouths of my 30-30 just enough so that no lead is shaved. I use a tool called a marlin spike used by sailors to splice ropes and line. This toll does just a little more than smooth out the mouth of the case. You can't even see any belling. I also use it for my 223, 6mm, 7mm, and 338 cases. It makes loading cast boolits smooth and easy without removing any metal from the case.

[Lizard333]

I have a dillon 550 and I had to by an m1 carbine powder die. Puts as much or as little bell as needed. Works great.

[Will]

Any tapered object can be used to bell the mouth just enough to seat the boolit without shaving. If you use something other than a die that has a constant setting (such as a center punch or closed needle nose) you should put a piece of tape on it so it is inserted to the same point each time. Then crimp to remove the bell.

[1Shirt]

M dies work great, BUT, I got rid of mine for all cals some time ago and went to the Lee tool which works from 22 up thru 45 great.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[frkelly74]

The lee tool is great as long as your expander ball is big enough to expand the neck so that the boolit is not sized down when seating. Most dies are set up for jacketed bullets and are too tight for cast, in my experience. The M die makes up for this deficiency.

[DLCTEX]

I use the Lee collet neck sizing die and only size enough to firmly hold the boolit. I still use the Lee universal neck flaring die and chamfer case mouths to allow as gentle insertion of the boolit into the case as possible.

[sqlbullet]

Another vote for M-die.

I load currently 3 different 30 caliber guns. I expect that number to grow.

The lee tool would be handy for the occasional calibers, but I figure everyone shooting cast in a rifle oughtta have a Lyman 30 caliber M die.

[redhead]

I use the lyman m die with no problems. 31141 gc is the boolit that I load for my two 30-30s. I size just enought that I can seat the boolit with no damage. My single shot will put them in 3/4 inch group at 100.

[kelbro]

Another M die user. Just got a .31 plug from Lyman to try.

[Dannix]

Another vote for Lyman's M-die with a 31R expander plug.
I have a 9mm Lyman M die, but will be loading 30-30 soon, so your plug comment caught my attention.

31R or 31S? This thread (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26814) made me more confused then when I started. :confused:


If it matters, I'm planning on using the RCBS X Dies (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/275135/rcbs-x-die-2-die-set-30-30-winchester) for sizing and seating.


Edit: On a re-read, it appears the longer 31R die is more flexible than the shorter 31S because the die can always be backed out, but it can only be screwed in so far. I think I got that right. Time to go to bed...

[Cherokee]

Lyman M die.

[462]

Dannix,
I've found that the longer M2 die body is very versatile. It, along with a 31R expander plug (the 30R plug is too skinny for cast boolits) can be adjusted from .30-30 to at least .30-'06 case lengths.

I don't own anything in 9mm, but for cast boolits, you may want to look into using the fatter 38P expander plug, rather than the skinnier 38AP.

Individual plugs are available from Lyman for a bit over $4.

[35remington]

The M die's parallel sided section is no different in diameter than the expander ball in most sizing dies in most calibers. The reason is because it is also intended for jacketed bullets, so the "squeeze" it puts on a cast bullet is the same as that produced by a normal expanding button.

Measure the ones you have. If a standard expander ball is "too tight" for cast, so is the M die's expander. I have a whole array of M die expanders to compare, and there's really no difference in almost all calibers.

The M die simply adds a flare.

[462]

http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_LymanMDies.htm

[DLCTEX]

I have trouble navigating Lyman's web site. Would I order the M die for 31 cal. (says for 303 Brit) for 30-30
No, I see from the above link that I would need to get the die for 30-30 and then order a 31R plug.

[462]

The 31R M2 body -- .303 British -- will work with .30-30, at least it does for me and my RCBS presses. Both the die body and stem will have to be screwed in almost all the way, but that will allow one body to work for many rifle cartridges.

The individual expander plugs are not listed for on-line ordering. Determine which plugs you need and place a phone order.

[DLCTEX]

The individual expander plugs are not listed for on-line ordering. Determine which plugs you need and place a phone order.
Thanks! That makes me feel better, I thought I must be too computer illiterate to work their online catalog. I have an M die and plugs for pistol calibers but the stem is too long for use with rifle ctgs. I wonder if the rifle stem and plug would work with the die body I have?

[725]

Lee makes a "Universal Expander" that I use with very good effect. The one inexpensive Lee die will expand any and all of your cases regardless of caliber.

[Dannix]

Thanks 462!

The Lyman "9x19mm" expander die body is M1, so I'll have to pick up a M2 die body at some point. I knew one die body would essentially be a one-size-fits-all die body, but I couldn't find the source when I was ready to buy.

For 9mm expanding, I've thought about getting a custom plug made via one of the members here, but I may just go the 38P route and if the 38P plug is too long to also flare with, also get a Lee universal neck flaring die.

[Dannix]

Lee makes a "Universal Expander" that I use with very good effect. The one inexpensive Lee die will expand any and all of your cases regardless of caliber.
I'm sure you are aware of this, but I just wanted to clarify this for newer members.

The Lee "Universal Expander" doesn't expand -- It flares. The concern with going the flare-only route is that when shooting softer alloy cast boolits, the brass may swag down the boolit. This is why for some purposes an expander may be utilized in addition to any flaring.

Hope that is a help to some.

[res45]

For my 30-30 cast loads I use the .311 expander ball out of my RCBS 54r dies in my 30-30 die it seems to work just fine. Case mouths on all my rifle loads are belled using the Lee Universal Expander.

[Adk Mike]

I just went to the 31R plug in my m die. It makes a big difference when stuffing fat 30 caliber bullets in case neck. On my RCBS 06 die I also chnged the expander plug to .310. That made a difference also. Mike

[Archey]

I have an empty C02 canister, the kind used in pellet guns that works good for flairing case mouths. Put the tapered end of the C02 canister into the case mouth and press down by hand or a lite tap with a mallet on the C02 canister is all it takes for a nice flare.

[PAT303]

When you guys say buy from Lyman,do you buy direct from them?. Pat

[462]

PAT303,
Yes, directly from Lyman . . . Midway, Midsouth, etc. don't sell just the expander plugs.

[DLCTEX]

I compared prices from Lyman, Midway, Grafs, and Natchez Shooter Supply. 19.95, 18.95, 17.95 and 15.95 respectively. If you aren't purchasing other items then the $25 minimum order gets you with Grafs and Midway. Shipping from Lyman is $6. Grafs is 4.50, the others up to $17, making Lyman the cheaper route. I also need the 31R plug and possibly a shorter stem which apparently have to come from Lyman, so I'll call Lyman.

[trk]

Lyman M dies are ok.

But what I do is to use the Sinclair die for holding an expander mandrel.

I turn my mandrels to two diameters (not unlike the M die) but with a positive stop.

The main diameter is that which will give me .002 to .004 tension on the cast bullet.

The diameter at the top will give me .001 to .002 clearance (sliding fit) for the bullet to be just slid perhaps 1/10" into the case. Seating it pushes it in as much as needed and crimps (as needed).

[happyfast79]

ok so im sorta confused, do i need a m1 or a m2 die for my 30-30 also is there a way to buy it with the correct larger expander plug already in it? any help or posibly a link would be greatly appreatiated.

[Dannix]

If I'm reading correctly, .303 British M die is the route to take. It is the longer M2 die body (which allows for greater versiltiy), and it contains the 31R plug which is more appropriate for boolit loading.

Essentially the .303 British M die should be appropriate for boolit loading an sundry of .30 cal cartridges.

[MikeS]

When you buy M dies they're not cartridge specific. You can buy the M1 or M2 body (one is longer than the other, I forget which is which), and then specify what expander it's to come with, a 31, or a 30, etc. They also have a letter (R comes to mind), and I don't recall what that stands for. Basically there is no such thing as a 30-30 M die, or a 303 British M die, you could buy a 31 M die and use it for any 30 cal cartridges that it will fit (if you buy both bodies M1 & M2 then you should be able to use it for ANY cartridge that you want to use a .311 boolit with)

Does that explain it any better, or did I just confuse more people?

[462]

If I'm reading correctly, .303 British M die is the route to take. It is the longer M2 die body (which allows for greater versiltiy), and it contains the 31R plug which is more appropriate for boolit loading.

Essentially the .303 British M die should be appropriate for boolit loading an sundry of .30 cal cartridges.

Spot on.

[tomf52]

A pair of needle nose pliers stuck in the case mouth and given a twist will bell the case mouth nicely. You will learn in a hurry how much force to use. Quick, easy, and very effective.