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View Full Version : 6.5X55 for small and large game?



Jim
11-19-2011, 09:48 AM
This is one of those questions where I need somebody to listen to me and tell me if I'm making sense.

I have a Carl Gustave 6.5X55 Swede that is topped with a 3X9X40 scope. Obviously, I can kill deer with it, that's a no brainer. I'm wondering if I can develop a C/B load for it that I can use to kill coons without having to change the scope setting from 100 yds. with 140 gr. PSPs.

99% of shots at coons are from 10 to 20 degrees out from vertical and at anywhere from 30 to absolute max of 75 feet. A coon 75 up a tree is almost unheard of.

If the shots are almost vertical and close, there should not be an issue with trajectory difference. Why couldn't I work up a load with a 140 gr. cast boolit at a subsonic velocity that I could kill coons with at the same scope setting that I use to kill deer with at 100 yds. with J word bullets at 2000+ FPS?

I have the Lyman 266469 mold to work with.

Does that make sense or am I trying to achieve the impossible?

JMtoolman
11-19-2011, 10:14 AM
Jim, why don't you load them with a round ball and somethinglike bullseye. Should do great at those ranges, and should shoot to point of aim. The toolman.

Larry Gibson
11-19-2011, 12:51 PM
Jim

Should be easy enough to do. Suggest a very soft cast 266469 of pure lead or if it does cast clean then a 40-1 lead/tin alloy at most. Size and GC as close to "as cast" as possible or just seat the GC and then apply a good coat of straight LLA on the drive band/lube area. I use my fingers for this and stand them on their base on wax paper to dry. If you use a lyman or RCBS sizer/lubrasizer the lube needs to be soft. I use Javelina or the LLA but BAC, SPG, etc or somethin similar should work fine also. You can try w/o the GC also as at the ranges you're talking it probably won't make any difference.

I also suggest Bullseye as the powder to use here. Start at 4 gr and work up or down until you get the velocity/accuracy you want at 75 feet. No wad or filler is necessary. Use well fire formed cases. I also suggest drilling the flash holes out of 20 cases with a #30 - #28 drill to be dedicated for this load. This will solve the shoulder setback/case headspace problem. Standard LR primers are all that are needed.

Problem with using a CF scope at such short range is one of focus which genrally means only the low end power(s) are useable for a clear sight picture. Once the load is developed then test the developed loads poi at at 75 feet with the 140 Jacketed bullet zero. Hopefully the reticle is a duplex(?). The developed cast load probably will hit below the POA. If the cast load group is slightly (within 1") to the right or left of verticle that's ok as the closer the shot the less it will be and thats still close enough for a good shot on a treed coon. Increase the power until the point of the bottom duplex is "on" the group while the crosshair is still on the poa. If that can be done and the scope is still in focus you are in business using the scope set at that power with the bottom point of the duplex as the aiming point.

Another thing to remember though is that as the upward angle of departure increases the farther the distance to the point where the bullet crosses the line of sight (zero range) is. In other words if you are zeroed at 75 ft and are shooting up a tree at an 70 - 90 degree angle the same 75 ft the bullet will hit low almost the height the scope is above the bore. The closer the shot the closer the bullet impact will be to scope height above the bore when shooting at such angles at such close ranges. Of course only actual testing with such a load at such angles/ranges will give the correct answers.

Should be doable though.

Larry Gibson

JeffinNZ
11-19-2011, 03:09 PM
The 6.5X55 Jim. From MOUSE to MOOSE......

Jim
11-19-2011, 03:34 PM
JM, I thought about the round ball, but decided against it because of the bullet jump.

Larry, a very clear tutorial! Thank you so much!

Mouse to moose; I like that, Jeff!

I'll get started on this project soon. As always, I'll (try to remember to) post results.

nanuk
11-19-2011, 08:51 PM
Jim, here I thought when you were asking about small and large game, you meant Deer and Moose!

hehe...

nanuk
11-19-2011, 08:52 PM
Jim
.....
Another thing to remember though is that as the upward angle of departure increases the farther the distance to the point where the bullet crosses the line of sight (zero range) is. In other words if you are zeroed at 75 ft and are shooting up a tree at an 70 - 90 degree angle the same 75 ft the bullet will hit low almost the height the scope is above the bore. The closer the shot the closer the bullet impact will be to scope height above the bore when shooting at such angles at such close ranges. Of course only actual testing with such a load at such angles/ranges will give the correct answers.

Should be doable though.

Larry Gibson


Larry, I always thought the boolit struck high when not shooting horizontal.

Jim
11-19-2011, 09:22 PM
Larry, I always thought the boolit struck high when not shooting horizontal.

That depends on where you zero the scope.

I'll zero the scope for the .264-140-JSPs and use 'Kentucky elevation' for the CBs at 'coon height.

waksupi
11-19-2011, 11:28 PM
Larry, I always thought the boolit struck high when not shooting horizontal.

That is a confusing thing the writers fired up years ago. Basically, you need to keep in mind where the kill zone is, in relation to your elevation.

richhodg66
11-19-2011, 11:47 PM
I've been thinking about this for the Savage 340 I've been playing with this year. The side mount scope base, while not an iron sighter mount intentionally, allows me to used the factory sights without the scope being overly high above the bore. I killed a deer with a 31141 this year and would like to keep the scope zeroed for that, then zero the sights for some kind of 110-115 grain plain based in front of 6-8 grains of some kind of pistol powder for a squirrel load. I have an extra magazine for it, so it would be easy to change out during a hunt.

Not sure what kind of scope set up you have on your Swede, but maybe two different sighting options would do the trick.

Bad Water Bill
11-20-2011, 11:20 AM
That depends on where you zero the scope.

I'll zero the scope for the .264-140-JSPs and use 'Kentucky elevation' for the CBs at 'coon height.

Jim Kentucky elevation really does NOT work in Virginia.:bigsmyl2:

Jim
11-20-2011, 11:39 AM
Jim Kentucky elevation really does NOT work in Virginia.:bigsmyl2:

Ya' know, Bill, you take the fun outa' everything, you know that? [smilie=b:

:bigsmyl2:

Hardcast416taylor
11-20-2011, 12:31 PM
We have a similar problem with the correct point of hold here in Michigan.. What with being the "Upper" Peninsula and the "Lower" Peninsula is bad enough, but then they are called "YOOPERS" and we are called "FLAT LANDERS"! So by the time you figure out where you are the buck has either wandered off or died of old age waiting on you!:bigsmyl2:ROBERT

Bad Water Bill
11-20-2011, 01:06 PM
Jim A suggestion I just remembered and WILL work is wet your thumb, rub it across the front sight then use KENTUCKY WINDAGE. Worked in EVERY movie I ever saw it used in, from upper N Y to the Alamo.

Larry Gibson
11-20-2011, 03:08 PM
Larry, I always thought the boolit struck high when not shooting horizontal.

It does....but it's a matter of perception.

The force of gravity works in a horizontal plane. When shooting at different angles, especial steep ones, the range to the target we see is farther than the horizontal range at which gravity will work on the bullet. Suppose we are zeroed at 200 yards and we see a deer at 400 yards (line of sight, measured with a range finder) at a 60 degree angle uphill. We hold for 400 yards just above the back and the bullet goes over the back of the deer just above the back! How can that be? Well, at a 60 degree angle that 400 yard shot was really a 200 yardhorizontal shot to gravity. Thus we percieved the bullet struck high when shooting uphill.

The same shot down hill will be exactly the same. Thus the perception is to aim "low" when shooting downhill also. Many of the newer range finders will compensate for the angle of the shot and give a "true" range to the target.

BTW; in the case above, even though the correct hold would be for 200 yards instead of the line of sight 400 yards for bullet drop, the hold for wind is for 400 yards because the bullet really does travel that far in the wind.

I thought it was Tennessee elevation and Kentucky windage? Guess ya got to be standing on the state line between them to use both at the same time?:groner:

Larry Gibson

Bad Water Bill
11-20-2011, 03:54 PM
I thought it was Tennessee elevation and Kentucky windage? Guess ya got to be standing on the state line between them to use both at the same time?

Then I do not have a real answer to give Jim

Since he lives in Virginia this information may not apply.

Oh well I tried to help but guess all I did was muddy up the water AGAIN.

nanuk
11-21-2011, 01:40 AM
Larry, I understand the gravity issue. if you are zero'd for 200 yds horizontal, and shoot at a game animal 141yds up a 45* hill, then you need to think, and aim as if it is a 100 yd shot.

I get that

I still can't wrap my head around your other paragraph tho....

tomorrow evening, I'll put it on paper to help me see what you are telling me.

Larry Gibson
11-21-2011, 02:16 PM
nanuk

If the line of sight is less than the 200 yard zero range then there won't be much difference in trajectory than if shooting level. All this given a fast moving bullet.

Also the "perception" has to do with the target. Too many hunters aim at the deer when they should really aim at a specific place on the deer. As mentioned in my previous post i prefer the heart/lung shot through one or both shoulders. Consider if you are looking at a broadside deer 141 yards away at a 45* angle. If you normally shoot "point of the shoulder". That shot won't do on the uphill 45* shot to put the bullet in the heart/lung area low between the legs. This is because you are looking at the under side of the deer. Thus that shot at the "point of the shoulder", depending on the mid range trajectory with a 200 yard zero, may miss, it may plow hide glancing off a rib or if it penetrates it will damage little inside and the deer could go a very long way before it dies, if it does.

What you must do is "aim lower" on the deer. You would actually be aiming at close to the underside of the brisket where the leg starts to put the bullet into the heart/lung. Thus the "perception" is to "aim lower at the deer" but in reality you are still aiming at the real intended target; the heart/lungs.......just a matter of perception as if you aim at the same spot on the deer on the uphill shot as you do on a level shot you will hit "high"........above the heart/lung........

Larry Gibson

35remington
11-23-2011, 08:57 PM
When my 30-06 is zeroed with the 150 grain SP (several makes) at 2950 fps two inches high at 100 yards, it hits on the junction of the thick/thin portion of the duplex reticle at 4.5X at fifty yards with my small game load, which is the C113F Soup Can driven 1550 fps with 9.0 grains W231.

If I can do it, you can do it with the Swede. My scope is a 3X9 as well.