Out of round

[SkookumJeff]

I'm finally seeing success in my boolit casting. It's been a long journey of discovery. I almost gave up a couple of times. Now that things are finally clicking, I'm having some trouble with addiction. When I'm not casting, I'm thinking of casting. When I AM casting, I'm thinking about how soon before I can cast again! If I go too long between casting sessions, I get real grouchy and aggressive. I have trouble sleeping. It seems now that I never have enough moulds. I spend all my time looking for other moulds. If I'm not looking for moulds, I'm looking for lead...or lino...or bee's wax...

I don't know, my closest friends and family are hinting that I might have a problem...:???: :wink:

All kidding aside, now that my boolits are coming out wrinkle free with sharp corners and good definition, one last issue has cropped up. My boolits are not round. They vary in diameter up to about .005 (max). This out of round condition seems consistent regardless of which boolits I'm casting. I have all Lee brand moulds to cast 358-158-RF (6 cav), 429-200-RF (6 cav), 430-310-FP (2 cav), 457-340-F (2 cav), 457-450-F (2 cav). I also have a Ranch Dog TLC359-190-RF mould. All these moulds cast boolits that are out of round to some extent. Tolerance for this condition is .002-.005 and the smaller diameter always seems to be at the parting line. Is this normal? Initially I thought this was not a big deal and that the boolits would be swaged round in the sizing operation. No doubt that's true, but some of my moulds cast boolits that are at minmum diameter for my needs as cast (Marlin lever guns) and I can not size them smaller or they will be too small for my needs. I will be shooting these as cast. I'm still believing this is not a big deal. Loading and shooting them will prove this right or wrong, but till I can get out to test, I thought I'd ask you all what you think.

BTW, when I decided to start casting, I planned to cast one boolit for my .44 mags/444 Marlin and stop there. Several months later I now have all the moulds listed above. Beats me what happened to my original plan?!...:lovebooli

[GRUMPA]

On my LEE moulds I well do something called LEE-Menting. Here's the sticky on it:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=654&highlight=LEE-Menting. When I get LEE anything that's usually the first thing I do.

[runfiverun]

if they are bigger across then i'd suggest you look at how you are closing the molds.
you might find that only the base [top of the mold] is larger.
you might be resting your thumb on the sprue cutter of the 6 cavities.
you may have a piece of lead in there.
the alignment pins are not seated fully or have a burr built up around them.
there could be a raised edge along the cavities.
you might not be getting them up to temp enough or getting them too hot during casting.
and it could just be that you bought 20 dollar molds.

[Char-Gar]

I have yet to see a cast bullet that is perfectly round. They are all "out of round" to one degree or another. Most often it will be not more than .002.

There is of course the issue of alignment of the two half of the blocks. Frequently there are some issues here that need to be resolved. The cheaper the mold, the more often alignment problems become an issue. This is not to say, it can't happen on high dollar molds, because it does.

Never slam the blocks closed, always ease them together.

[Cadillo]

.005 is quite a lot of distortion. Start by checking for contamination between the blocks. It can happen often while casting. Just a tiny bit of crud will keep the blocks from fitting together properly.

Next, close the blocks and hold them up toward the sun or other bright light source and look for light between them. This may reveal some of the cause.

[williamwaco]

Out of round by .005 with multiple molds is like the reverse of winning the lottery two weeks in a row. You don't have five molds that are that bad.

Remember that no cast bullets are perfectly round. Lee bullets will vary from .0005 to about .001 in my experience. Top notch custom molds will vary around .0005. ( Notice three zeros, not two.)

I suspect you are doing something like this with your Lee six cavity molds.

See:

http://www.reloadingtips.com/pages/missing_tumble_lube_grooves.htm

Be sure to zoom in on those last two mold photos so you can see the gap caused by pressure on the sprue cutter lever.


.

[Bret4207]

As the guys said, look for something causing the blocks to not close completely.

As for the sizers "making them round"- no. Sizers aren't exactly round to start with and any force other than in a dead straight line with the axis of the sizer die will cause your boolit to be slightly off center and then there's good old human error and Mr Murphy to contend with. The degree of out of round you get may be smaller or larger, but in general we aren't getting anything like truly "round" boolits. BUT! Don't sweat it. Your chamber isn't perfectly round either and chances are there is some mislaignment with the bore, which also isn't round at all! Yeah. I know. Really kinda sets you back when you realize what we're doing is trying to get all these little variations to work together and produce good groups. It's a freakin' miracle when ya thinks about it!

So here's whatcha do- work towards limiting the variations you CAN control. Sometimes base first sizing in a nose first die will help or vice versa. Sometime sizing the boolit and then giving it a half turn and sizing again will help. Sometimes you can lap a die rounder or fix misalignment in a sizer. IMO what we should be aiming for is a non-damaged boolit when it drops from the sizer that will fit the throat as well as we can get it. We want that boolit aligned with the case and the case supported by the chamber as fully as easy extraction allows. That is about as good a start as we can hope for with our tools. And as far as sizing goes, truth is the pressure does the final sizing, so that's what all the work beforehand is leading up to.

Took me a long time of listening to the guys here before I caught onto this stuff. Hope I made it somewhat clear.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Yes Bret, that is very clear! thanks.

[MtGun44]

Well said, as usual, Bret.

I have also pointed out several times something along the lines of "in an ideal world of
round boolits and round throats, this may matter" but in the real world, none are actually
exactly round, but we want to approach round as much as we can reasonably do.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Yep, gotta agree that there is NO ideal world regarding cast boolits. All the advise given is advise that can be taken to the bank!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[SkookumJeff]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help and advise. Last night I was working on my first batch of lube for pan lubing and I checked quite a few of my 429-200-RF boolits. They averaged about .001 out of round, occasionally one would be .0035 out. I may have overstated my problem. My boolits sure look good though. If they shoot as good as they look, then all is well.

Skook

[MtGun44]

Whack 'em in the butt with 10 gr of Unique and they will EXACTLY match your throat
shape. ;-)

Bill