30-30 Handi Rifle Who has one?

[cabezaverde]

I have been thinking about sending my HR target rifle in to get a 30-30 barrel fitted and then having it rechambered to 30-40 Krag.

Does anyone have any input on how the 30-30 Handi barrels shoot?

[hpdrifter]

mine shoots pretty good. never benched it, but it'll shoot 1.5-2" over a tree limb whill standing at ~60 yards

[Tom W.]

Mine is an older one, but it shoots anything that I put in it quite well.

[PPpastordon]

Never benched mine, either. However, it seems to be a good shooter. Need to get to somewhere a bench is available and try it. It, also, is an older model that I have had for years. Was simply more interested in my .45-70 than the .30-30. However, now with our coyote population ever increasing, I think it needs to be benched to make sure it is up to the task.

"Rolling soda cans and bustin' dirt clods;
sure ain't much of a test for live game shootin'!"

[KB291]

Mine will group 1" to 11/4" at 100 yds from bench. Load is 32 gr H335, Win primer, Win case, 150 gr Sierra SPBT. Chronograph at 2175 fps. Still working on cast loads but they are promising.

[Uncle R.]

Mine's not a Handi-Rifle but an older Topper model 158 with .30-30 and 20 gauge barrels. I bought it many years ago to use as a loaner for those people who don't deserve to get their hands on one of my good guns.
:-D
The .30-30 barrel shoots very well. I've never had anything but a 2-1/2X scope on it and with that glass it'll shoot around 2MOA with the dreaded j-words. Can you believe I've never put a real boolit through it?
:roll:
So many projects - so little time...
Uncle R.

[Chargar]

Not much to be gained in rechambering to 30-40 as most 30-30s comes with a 1-12 tsist barrel. This limits bullet length/weight to about 190 grains. The 30-30 has enough powder capacity to push bullets this weight to cast bullet limits.

The 30-40 is a great round, but the extra powder capacity doesn't help until you get to the heavier bullets above 200 grains. It takes a 1-10 twist barrel to do right by these longer bullets.

[cabezaverde]

Not much to be gained in rechambering to 30-40 as most 30-30s comes with a 1-12 tsist barrel. This limits bullet length/weight to about 190 grains. The 30-30 has enough powder capacity to push bullets this weight to cast bullet limits.

The 30-40 is a great round, but the extra powder capacity doesn't help until you get to the heavier bullets above 200 grains. It takes a 1-10 twist barrel to do right by these longer bullets.


Thanks for the input. The Handi 30-30 barrels are 1 in 10" twist.

Has anyone rechambered a handi ? Should be quite easy.

[cabezaverde]

Oh man.

I just sent my Target frame off for a 30-30 and 45-70 fitting yesterday. Today, I get an email from a guy that has an absolutely gorgeous Ruger #1 he wants to sell me.

[Jack Stanley]

Mine is a old Topper with a chamber so large you'd think it was supposed to take 30-40 ammo !!:roll:
On the good side though , I setup a sizer die just for this rifle and have a load that does very well . I keep the cases and ammo separate from the lever rifle and so far case life and accuracy are fine . It's a neat rifle to fool with , I just wish they would have done it right the first time up .

Jack

[joeb33050]

Not much to be gained in rechambering to 30-40 as most 30-30s comes with a 1-12 tsist barrel. This limits bullet length/weight to about 190 grains. The 30-30 has enough powder capacity to push bullets this weight to cast bullet limits.

The 30-40 is a great round, but the extra powder capacity doesn't help until you get to the heavier bullets above 200 grains. It takes a 1-10 twist barrel to do right by these longer bullets.

Chargar;
Greenhill says a .308" 1:12 barrel will stabilize a bullet 1.186" long. My estimator says that 1.186" ~ 207 grains. My guns stabilize 311299 and 314299 at ~208 grains in WW, at least to 200 yards. For long range maybe a shorter/lighter bullet is better.
joe b.

[w30wcf]

Regarding the max. bullet weight that a 1/12" twist .30 caliber barrel will stabilize, I have had excellent results with Lyman's 311284 (220 grs. in w.w.+2% tin) in my Teddy Roosevelt Commemorative '94 all the way out to 1,000 yards.:-D

w30wcf

[felix]

Salient rules: Heavier the boolit, less twist is needed; more pointed a boolit, less twist is needed; longer the boolit, more twist is needed; the windier the condition, more twist is needed; longer the range, more twist is needed; more of a boattail, more twist is needed; more hollow the point, less twist is needed. ... felix

[RayinNH]

Felix, are you saying we need a two piece barrel with the lands only attached at the opposite ends from each other ? Need more twist turn the front of the barrel a bit, need less twist turn the barrel a bit in the other direction. The front sight problem will need to be worked out though. :-D...Ray

[Marlin Junky]

What are those 30-30 Handi-Rifle chambers like? Are they sloppy? Do they have any throat? What's the rifling like? How deep are the grooves?

The one thing I do know about the Handi-Rifle is that NEF should stick to chambering it for rimmed cartridges. I purchased an SB2-135 (.35 Whelen) last fall, shot about 100 rounds through it and it's no longer extracting fired brass because the extractor isn't grabbing the rim. I'm sending it back to the factory with a note asking NEF to replace the barrel with one chamber for the 38-55 cartridge because I really can't imaging a poorer designed extractor for rimless cartridges.

MJ

[randyrat]

I have the Handi rifle chambered 30-06 and it shoots great,trigger is crisp and very heavy 6-8 lbs. It takes me 10 rds just to get used to the trigger. I have been thinking about sending the forarm and receiver in to get a different barrel fitted but am confused. I'm leaning toward a 30-30 so i can cast for it also so i can have open sites. I could try casting for the 06 but am stuck with the scope only, no open sites. Maybe i should save up and buy them all.

[versifier]

Felix, are you saying we need a two piece barrel with the lands only attached at the opposite ends from each other ? Need more twist turn the front of the barrel a bit, need less twist turn the barrel a bit in the other direction. The front sight problem will need to be worked out though. :-D...Ray

Sleeve the barrel. :-D

randyrat:
If you have more barrels fitted, then you'll still have the same crappy trigger with all of them. They're relatively inexpensive, but you get what you pay for - there's no free lunch. I have posted before about inconsistent heat treating of their bearing surfaces, too. Sometimes it's the barrel, sometimes the receiver. When it's the barrel, you can shim it, but when it's the receiver, you're screwed. Encores and Contenders are much more expensive, but the quality is there, the triggers are far superior, and the CS from T/C when you have problems is generally fantastic. When you buy good tools, you swear by them instead of at them. That won't sit too well with those who swear by their Handy Rrifles, but I have sworn at too many of them and would never recommend another one to anyone. Many of them do have very accurate barrels, and when they shoots themselves loose, you could always thread them and screw them into decent bolt actions. The .30-30 in a decent action, with a decent barrel, is well capable of subMOA accuracy with cast or jacketed. I would expect 2MOA or worse from and ancient and shot-out levergun, but from a new one, that does not meet the minimum standard, especially when a 10" Contender can easily shoot MOA at 100yds (and I have owned three: 10", 14", and now a carbine - they'll all do it.)

[tom barthel]

I had one and made it an AI. Some will argue about the name. My reloads will drop into a AI chamber cut by pros. No problem. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck. I am calling it an Ackley Improved chamber regardless of anyones thoughts on it. I'm a disabled shooter. I've shot 3 rounds into a .70 inch group from a benched position. That's rare for me. An able shooter with my NEF Handi-rifle should do a lot better. I shoot the LEE c309-170f cast bullet. My weight on this bullet with gas check is about 178-179 grains. I also shoot remington 150 and 165 grain psp core lock (sp?) bullets. This little rifle grows on you. Any of my rifles will outshoot me but, I usually go to my favorite little cheap gun for everything. I'm very impressed with my .30-30 AI Handi-rifle.

All NEF .30 cal barrels are 1in 10 twist. I had a .30-30 barrel reamed to .30-40. No problems. I like the .30-30 better. Besides, I have 9 .30 caliber rifles. I'd suggest staying with the standard .30-30. I re chambered mine to AI just to have something different. It's your money. If you want it and can afford it, go for it. Give yourself a treat. ENJOY.

[Scrounger]

I have the Handi rifle chambered 30-06 and it shoots great,trigger is crisp and very heavy 6-8 lbs. It takes me 10 rds just to get used to the trigger. I have been thinking about sending the forarm and receiver in to get a different barrel fitted but am confused. I'm leaning toward a 30-30 so i can cast for it also so i can have open sites. I could try casting for the 06 but am stuck with the scope only, no open sites. Maybe i should save up and buy them all.

Randyrat, according to the Handiholics at Greybeard's Forum, if you send your rifle in to have a new barrel fitted, you can have the factory give you a nice trigger job for little or no cost. I would go for the .357 barrel or the .45-70 or even the .500 S&W. But whatever makes your bird whistle. I have a .223 Synthetic model Handi that I would like to sell so I could buy the .500 S&W.

[joeb33050]

Salient rules: Heavier the boolit, less twist is needed;

I don't think so, the heavier the bullet the longer it is and faster twist is needed. The DENSER the bullet the slower twist is required.

"more pointed a boolit, less twist is needed; "

I don't think so, Greenhill says twist required is a function of bullet length for a caliber. A 1" 30 caliber flat nose requires the same twist as a 1" 30 caliber spire point.

"longer the boolit, more twist is needed;"

Mr. Greenhill and I agree

"the windier the condition, more twist is needed;"

I don't think so, wind deflection is a function of BC and wind v and mv. Faster twist doesn't reduce wind deflection. Stabilized 22 and 45 at mv with BC have same wind deflection.

"longer the range, more twist is needed;"

Maybe, at low MVs-but the jury's out.

"more of a boattail, more twist is needed;"

No, don't think so-see about pointed bullets above. The boattail has higher BC at lower v's, so lest wind defl.

"more hollow the point, less twist is needed"

No, see boattail and pointed bullets, above. HP = <SD = <BC = more wind defl.

. ... felix

The minimum twist required to stabilize a bullet of a given caliber is a function of bullet length (BIG EFFECT), bullet density so lead stabilizes better than copper etc, the density of the medium the bullet is going through-air is good, water is bad, lower density air at higher elevations is better than sea level air, and muzzle velocity (SMALL EFFECT).
Wind deflection for a given mv is a function of only BC and wind velocity-keeping in mind that velocity is a vector quantity.

Now, I could very well be wrong, and would like to see any data supporting other contentions.
joe brennan

[randyrat]

Randyrat, according to the Handiholics at Greybeard's Forum, if you send your rifle in to have a new barrel fitted, you can have the factory give you a nice trigger job for little or no cost. I would go for the .357 barrel or the .45-70 or even the .500 S&W. But whatever makes your bird whistle. I have a .223 Synthetic model Handi that I would like to sell so I could buy the .500 S&W. The 45-70 is also on my mind. I'm going check on a trigger job from factory. So far i have had the gun for about 5 years and haven't shot it like other guns but can't complain for $150. As for, you get what you pay for- i did and i'm not complaining.

[clearwater]

I have one and did the rechamber to 30-40. I use the open sights so the
2" groups I get are the limit for my eyes. Someday I will scope it to see how
it does. I have it as a mountain bike rifle where I have to ride in on fire roads where
cars aren't allowed. That way if I take a tumble I won't ruin a good scope. It is
also fairly light at 7 lbs.

I sent the rifle back for the free trigger work when I added a shotgun barrel. It is now
a nice 3 lbs. The shotgun barrel makes it a nice walking (or riding) turkey gun.

With the 30-30 barrel and 150 grain nosler accubonds I could get close to 2400 fps
with reloader 15. With the rechamber over 2600 fps with imr 4350. I have loaded up
some 180 ballistic tips and 220 grain round noses to try.

Cast loads so far with 170 grain gas checked are similar in both chamberings about
1700 fps. I haven't done much with the krag yet.

One other good thing about the Krag rechamber, is the great number of loading data
for heavier bullets of all kinds. An it has an even longer neck and wider rim than the
30-30, good for cast bullets in a single shot.

With any of the Handi rifles I would suggest buffing out the chamber with flitz
to keep stuck cases to a minimum. Also be sure the front forearm screw is snug
for best accuracy and if on a bench, rest the front bags under the action or hold
the forearm in your hand while on the bags. Stay away from the ultralight barrels,
they walk all over the place.

[lovedogs]

Just for info... yes, the boys at NEF will do sort of a trigger job for free if you send your gun in. But they will only go down to, I believe, about 5 lbs. I've been fortunate with two of my BC's, I guess. After douching them out with a degreaser I squirt Break-Free in their actions and let them drip dry and wound up with crisp 3 3/4 & 4 lb. pulls. Not fantastic, but useable.

[drinks]

All 3 actions I have, have nice triggers.
I have 2 rimless barrels, .308 and .35 Whelen, both do fine, no extractor problems, notice I said extractor, not ejector, I converted my 3 actions to extractor and did a 30 second modification to the extractor profile on my .35 Whelen with a needle file and cured any problem with it.
Over 1000 rounds in the .45-70, including 1800+fps 500gr loads and all are still tight.
Just a LOT of bang for the buck!

[cabezaverde]

Drinks,

Please tell how you did the conversion. I hate the ejectors.