I'm just not gittin' it.....please help

[bob v]

Well, here it is. I'm starting to get into casting and I can't seem to get a starting point with what size bullet to use. Here's what I know and don't know. I've been reading the Lyman book,the stickys here and as many posts as I can find to try to get an answer on my own but can't seem to understand this. I have slugged my barrel and it is .313" One post says the CB size should be .002-.003 over bore size. I have not been able to get the throut slugged yet but, another post says you can use a fired case from the gun and measure the I.D. of the case and it will give you a starting point so as not to jam a too big bullet in the chamber. So, I measured some of my fired cases and they come out to .3125" I.D. Now, if I'm understanding (or not) this right ,I shouldn't use a bullet larger than .312" or it might not release or at least increase pressure to a dangerous level. So what I'm asking is for some clarity on this that I can understand and what size bullt am I looking to start with? Thanks to all .
Hopeing to cast soon,
bob v

[Freightman]

Cast them .314, that fired case is just that a starting point, the chamber will be a little larger than the fired case or it wouldn't have came out. Good luck

[Maven]

bobv, Shooting oversized CAST bullets with moderate CB loads won't typically raise pressure to dangerous levels. Using oversized JACKETED bullets, is another matter entirely. Second, unless you have plug gauges, or a good touch with a caliper, measuring the inside diameter of a fired case may not give you the answer you're looking for. If my slugged bbl. measured .313", I'd repeat the process just to make sure that dimension is correct. If so, I'd get a Lee .314" push through sizing die, cast and size some projectiles and head to the range, i.e., assuming you're using starting charges of a given powder. If you're happy with the results, go no farther. If not, manipulate the seating depth and powder charge. If still no joy, consider lapping the die out to .315"* and start the process anew.



*http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/How%20to%20Hone%20a%20Size%20Die.pdf

[1Shirt]

Sounds like you are shooting either a Mosin or a 303 SMLE. If so, I would agree with Maverns suggestions.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[sqlbullet]

Throats matter a bunch in revolvers, since they can be smaller than the bore and size your bullet down for you when you don't want it to.

In a rifle, not so much. As Maven said, cast and size to .001" over and try it out. If you have issues, go .002" over and try again. If you still aren't happy, bring your data back here and the brain trust will help you out.

[Larry Gibson]

bob v

What rifle?

What cartridge?

What cast bullet?

What is the "as cast" diameter of those bullets?

Helps if we know that information for specific answers. Like many things, correct sizing of cast bullets can be hard to understand when you get lost in the minutia. Many of the stickies and information passed along here is for advanced sizing to tweek the best accuracy possible. However, it is realitively straight forward to size cast bullets for very useable and accurate loads.

Cast bullets should be sized to a minimum of groove diameter. It's better if they are .001 - .003 over groove diameter if they will chamber. I suggest you take a fired case and bell the case mouth (do not size it). This case should be a brass case fired with a full powered jacketed bullet load. See if an "as cast" bullet will slip into the neck. If they bullets slip into the neck then leaved the bullets as close to "as cast" diameter as you can.

If the bullet slips into the case neck then some sizing of the case neck is needed (best to neck sized with cast bullet loads). Sizing the case necks so they are .001 - .003 less than the bullet diameter is preferable. In your case with what we know from this thread Maven's suggestion on the Lee .314 push through sizer is a good bet and place to start.

Larry Gibson

[bob v]

O.K. I'll take the answers in order.
Maven, yes I have slugged the bore 4 times to make sure it was right and it came out and it always came out .313" so that's good.
1 shirt, correct Mosin 91/30
Larry Gibson, Mosin rifle,7.62x54r,don't know what bullet ,thats what I'm trying to find out.
Now if anyone has any Lee mould suggestions I'd like to know. I'm sticking with the Lee stuff until I get comfortable with it. My buget is very thin so I want to make every mould count, so to speak. Thanks for all the info, I'm starting to understand a little more now. As with anything else, if you have no or little experience with something,it's easy to be talked over by folks who know what they are talking about.....bob v

[pdawg_shooter]

No need to shy away from Lee, I have 12 or 15 Lee molds and they do the same job as my Lymans, RCBSs, Accurate and all the rest. Do it for a lot less money too.

[WHITETAIL]

bob v, Welcome to the forum!
And ask away.:redneck:
There are alot of smart people here.

[geargnasher]

Bobv, did you bell the case mouth before measuring the ID of the neck to remove all traces of crimp? Also, if you're using calipers to check the ID, they will likely be way off. The thing to do is use your calipers like real calipers, meaning ignore the reading and use them to get the actual dimension. Lock them, and measure the jaws with a c-clamp type micrometer.

If your groove dimension is .313" then you know you'll likely need at least a .314" boolit. Most production (and especially military) chamber necks are quite generous, in fact much of the time it's difficult to find brass with necks thick enough to achieve BR clearances, so I really doubt you'll have any trouble at all chambering rounds loaded with .314" or even larger boolits. .314" would be where I would start if it were me, though.

Gear

[adrians]

Bobv, did you bell the case mouth before measuring the ID of the neck to remove all traces of crimp? Also, if you're using calipers to check the ID, they will likely be way off. The thing to do is use your calipers like real calipers, meaning ignore the reading and use them to get the actual dimension. Lock them, and measure the jaws with a c-clamp type micrometer. by geargnasher:)


this is my way of doing it also, it's not 100% but it is very close for your needs,,,, gives you a starting point.
i might add buy the best calipers and mics you can afford they will serve you well, my weapons of choice are starrett tools.
not cheap but good used ones can be had at reasonable prices.:evil::bigsmyl2::evil:

[Boolseye]

+1 on Maven and Gear. I have the same gun–I use a .314 sizing die and a lee 312-160 boolit and it works jess fine.
Oh and by the way–I think you're "gittin' it" just fine.

[adrians]

Bobv, did you bell the case mouth before measuring the ID of the neck to remove all traces of crimp? Also, if you're using calipers to check the ID, they will likely be way off. The thing to do is use your calipers like real calipers, meaning ignore the reading and use them to get the actual dimension. Lock them, and measure the jaws with a c-clamp type micrometer. by geargnasher:)


this is my way of doing it also, it's not 100% but it is very close for your needs,,,, gives you a starting point.
i might add buy the best calipers and mics you can afford they will serve you well, my weapons of choice are starrett tools.
not cheap but good used ones can be had at reasonable prices.:evil::bigsmyl2::evil:

[Larry Gibson]

Bob v

Lee makes the C312-155-2R and the TL312-160-2R which generally run 155 and 160 gr +/-. Both work well in most MNs. However, I favor the Lee C312-185-1R at 185 gr. Mine are .314 "as cast' with a 16 -18 BHN alloy and shoot very well in my MNs of .311 to .314 groove depths. I also favor using 4895 with a dacron filler or 5744 w/o the filler. Phot shows a typical group with that bullet at 100 yards out of my Finn M39, I can't hold much better with iron any more........

Larry Gibson

[bob v]

Gears, I like the idea of useing the caliper/mic combo, I can see that it would be more exact I'll try it.
Larry, both of the dies you mentioned are the ones I was thinking about (155&160) I'm currently shooting 150gr. FMJ @ .312" dia. in front of 45.5gr. of 4895 and it's shooting 1 1/2"
to 2"@100 m with iron sites. I think it can do better,but my eyes can't LOL . O.K. with this info I'm off to a good start. Thanks, bob v

[bob v]

Oh, here's a question I forgot to ask. I'm going to use Hornady GC on these bullets,do I use .30 cal. GC's for the .314" bullets or what size?.....bob v

[Larry Gibson]

I use the Hornady .30 GCs on .308 - .314 cal bullets as the GC shanks are usually designed for them. There aren't any commercial ".31" cal GCs. I use a Hornady .32/8mm GC on .316 - .318 sized bullets if the GC shank is too large for the .30 cals GCs. New Lymans are the same as the Hornadys.

Larry Gibson

[bob v]

Thanks Larry

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bob v,

As you are finding out, lots of good help and info here!

When I was getting a new mold from Bruce, here on the forum, he put me in contact with another helpful person, sorry forgot the name, also on the forum, who makes Lee "style" push through sizing dies.

Quality top level, but this man makes the sizing dies to size for your needs.

Also Bruce recommended I use a push through die slightly larger then the sizer/luber die which is used after the boolit is run through the push through die.

AS per Lee products, I am a very selective buyer of Lee products, and when it comes to their molds, you will find that the 6 cavity molds are a huge step upward in quality as per how they register when closed.

The single and double cavity Lee molds quickly begin to show signs of wear because of their design, while the 6 cavity molds are more positive and long lasting.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[MikeS]

Bobv: One mould I would recommend is made by a custom mould maker called NOE, a member of this board. He might still have some moulds left over from a group buy done recently for a 129gr spire point .314 diameter boolit. While his moulds are more expensive than Lee, unlike Lee moulds which many folks consider consumable moulds, the NOE will last a long time if given the proper care. And an NOE mould will cast a rounder 'as cast' boolit than a Lee mould will. You didn't say what you're going to use the boolit for, but if you're going to be using it for plinking and such, the 129gr weight will save you a little bit of lead over the heavier ones. For sizing & lubing, get a Lee sizing kit, it comes with a bottle of lube folks around here call LLA (Lee Liquid Alox) which is used for tumble lubing boolits. The sizing die fits in a reloading press, so it doesn't take up any bench space, is relatively inexpensive, and at moderate speeds should give you good results. You can use LLA on any boolit design, not only Lee's tumble lube moulds. (the Lee tumble lube boolits will have 'TL' in front of the mould number)

Crusty: I think the person you're thinking about is Buckshot.

[MBTcustom]

I would go with the TL312-160-2R, hornady gas checks, get a Lee push through in .314 to seat the gas-checks, Lube with 45/45/10 if you can make it (if not, a light coat of LLA) If you plan on realy pushing them and the aforementioned lubes are not working, make up a batch of Felix Lube and call it a day.
That should get you there.
I dont know what you hunt in Delaware, but I think that once you shoot something with one of these slow moving lead boolits, you will never feed another jacketed boolit into that gun. I got a rifle going this summer and killed a deer with it and the trauma and was impressive to say the least! I was shooting a 250gr lead boolit @ 2000 FPS and it left fist-sized exit wounds!

[bob v]

only think I hunt anymore is paper so I don't need to push it real fast.....but I like to see really,really small holes....bob v

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

MikeS,

If you were using the underbench receiver system for your loading tools, none of you tools would take up bench space! :smile::smile:

And Yep, Buckshot it is. Good product and made to your specs.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[MikeS]

Well, actually I have a Lee benchplate system mounted on my bench, and I have a Lyman 45, Lee C press, and a Lyman Tru-line Jr. all mounted on plates that interchange. I also have another Tru-line Jr press that's been converted to 7/8-14 mounted on my bench as it's my primary press. So my reloading tools take up a minimum of space on my bench. Unfortunately that means there's just that much more space for clutter :(

And Crusty, the way you spell your location reminds me of the joke about 2 potatoes walking down the street.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

OK MikeS, I bite. Fill me in on the joke.

Here in Dreary Ideeeeeeeho :bigsmyl2: I also happen to live right at the bottom of "Spud Hill". Known officially as I recall as, Potatoe Hill.

And, If you want, send me your "E" address and I'll send you images of the underbench system.

If that doesn't convince you, well, your hopeless [smilie=l: [smilie=l:

Keep em coming!

Very Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[bob v]

[QUOTE=Crusty Deary Ol'Coot;1469719]MikeS,

If you were using the underbench receiver system for your loading tools, none of you tools would take up bench space! :smile::smile:



Tell me more and where to see some pics of this under bench system.....bob v

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Bob v,

there is a "PM" sent your way.

CDOC

[toolz568]

Bob v,

I have a rifle that is .3125 and I use the C312-155-2R with a Lyman .313 sizing die. This allows me to "squish" them a little when I seat the gas check. I found 16 grains of 2400 makes a nice target load.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13425

OG

[toolz568]

Bob V,

If you want to try some Lyman 311466's or C312-155-2R's let me know and I will send them over. I have had great luck with the Lee, not so much with the Lyman. I'm still working on that one.

OGotz