Pure lead for HP boolits?

[stubert]

If I cast some 44 mag. Devestator hp's out of pure lead and gas check them, with 22 gr. of 296, Do you think they will lead and will they penetrate before flattening? I'm using 50/50 beeswax/moly

[Larry Gibson]

If I cast some 44 mag. Devestator hp's out of pure lead and gas check them, with 22 gr. of 296, Do you think they will lead and will they penetrate before flattening?

Depends on the lube and yes they will penetrate before "flattening". Consider how well the "gould" 45-70 HP does at the 1300 - 1400+ fps range. I would suggest adding a little tin making it a 40-1 alloy to try 1st. Then test the load for accuracy. I use 16-1 alloy in my .44 Mag devastators and drive them at 1350 fps out of my Ruger FTBH and 1485 fps out of my Contender with excellent accuracy and performance. I have pushed a similar HP'd 429244 cast of 40-1 alloy to 1250 fps out of my 4" Colt Anaconda with very good accuracy and excellent expansion and penetration (through and through on 180 200 lb deer if that means anything).

Larry Gibson

[stubert]

40-1, Enough tin to help fill out, Thanks I'll give it a go. The're being shot in a 7.5" Red hawk. Lube is 50/50 moly/beeswax

[x101airborne]

You are going to love that devastator hp. That is one dog-gone hog flattener in my 454 casull. I have never recovered a boolit, but it is quite obvious that out of 30-1 alloy, they are for sure expanded to potential.

[Glen]

How are you shooting the Devastator HP in your 454 Casull? It is a .44 caliber bullet (i.e. .430" diameter). Are you paper patching it to make up the difference?

[MtJerry]

Kinda soft for that caliber, but if you keep the velocity down, it may work. here is some results I got today with some 40/1 in my .357's

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=133238

[Boolseye]

is the moly you refer to CV joint grease (molybdenum Disulfide)?

[stubert]

Glenn Fryxell's formula, moly/ graphite grease and bees wax

[x101airborne]

No, an old timer around here found out I was casting and gave me a box of his old molds. One of the ones that were salvaged was a lyman 250 grain single caity HP mold. It is just like the devistators in 44 mag but casts a hp-swc at 453 diamater. lemme see about a couple of pics.

[44man]

The hollow point that soft might give penetration problems. I am sure they would kill with lungs and ribs only but they might stop too soon.
I don't know the boolit weight but if heavy enough they will do it.
With lead that soft I would use a solid boolit.
I don't know what the hollow point would do on bone either.
The reason I don't use soft lead is I can't hit anything. It turns my .44 into a close range gun like a cap and ball. Then the worry about leading. I would be inclined to shoot them slow like a muzzle loader.
I would be interested in your results.

[44man]

OH, I forgot something! :holysheep
It will not be possible to get case tension with soft lead. H110 or 296 will give you fits because boolits will move out from primer pressure and change the case capacity for every shot plus you just might fail to get ignition if the boolits move too far.
You will need to expand brass too much or you will size the boolit while seating. Recoil can also pull boolits.
If you go to a fast powder, boolits will slump.

[x101airborne]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_155754ec11edc23f82.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2694)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_155754ec11f19ebed2.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2695)

[x101airborne]

This is the same boolit just loaded in 45 colt only loads using blue dot. The loads are kinda old and some of the first ones I ever cast. I now light load my 454 casull with these loads rather than heavy load my ruger. I do carry these six rounds with me when I go bummin around just in case. But I normally carry the Miha 220 grain penta point over red dot.

[fredj338]

I have the same bullet & I can tell you @ those speeds, it's going to frag & you'll get very shallow penetration. I would also bet they lead some, even w/ a gc. I cast mine out of 25-1 & the turn almost inside out @ only 1200fps. So for hunting, I had Erik make me a cup point pin. Now the bullet weighs 270gr from 25-1 & expands nicely @ 1225fps, all I really need for hunting anything upto elk.

[44man]

Back in the day I used to love to play with hollow points and all kinds of lead. It was long before we could find a deer. I sure loved the big, flat boolits but it took very few containers of water to catch them.
Finally I could use the .44 for deer and used the 240 XTP only to find none of my shots went through them and there was almost no blood trail. I have the boolits, beautiful mushrooms that killed great but too easy to lose deer in the thick or ruin it all with a big bone.
It took time to find the best and to work out poor stuff. I found a gallon jug blown to pieces was not enough as well as muzzle energy and velocity, book figures no good in the real world.
Today for every gun at around 1300 to 1350 FPS I use a hard, WLN or WFN with no hollow point. .44, .475 and .500 JRH. Boolits tough enough for extreme accuracy and no disruption of the nose. Internals are turned to mush, blood trails are huge and deer die one after the other.
A hollow point would mean going to school again.
The pictures shown remind me of the old days when they looked great and I thought MASSIVE destruction but fellas, it is just not to be. Energy dump is a myth. Dump 2 cylinders of those soft hollow points in a buf and you will eat dirt. I don't think one will get through a moose shoulder. A huge boar with the plate will stop them.

[bearcove]

+1 I like a WFN 1200-1400 fps. Good penetration is important.

[MGySgt]

Agree with 44Man - I have shot Elk with a 45 cal 430 grain 80% FP and they dropped within 20 years. - 45 cal hole going in and big hole on the exit side.

MZ velocity was about 1450.

[Boolseye]

I just cast some .44s out of 60-40 pure lead to range lead. They are the Lee 240 grain SWC with gas check. I will drill them with a Forster HP tool and run some expansion/penetration tests with wet phone books and water jugs. I'll report back later–what velocity would you all suggest? I was thinking in the neighborhood of 850-900 fps, sort of a hot .44 special velocity. They could potentially be used to hunt whitetail.

I did read and digest the previous posts–thanks for sharing your experience in the matter. It makes sense that anything from .44 onward really has no need for an HP. Plenty big non-expanded. I guess I don't know why I'm doing this...just to look at big, beautiful mushrooms, I s'pose (although I've already seen enough after the wet summer we had in VT!)

-jp

[44man]

I just cast some .44s out of 60-40 pure lead to range lead. They are the Lee 240 grain SWC with gas check. I will drill them with a Forster HP tool and run some expansion/penetration tests with wet phone books and water jugs. I'll report back later–what velocity would you all suggest? I was thinking in the neighborhood of 850-900 fps, sort of a hot .44 special velocity. They could potentially be used to hunt whitetail.

I did read and digest the previous posts–thanks for sharing your experience in the matter. It makes sense that anything from .44 onward really has no need for an HP. Plenty big non-expanded. I guess I don't know why I'm doing this...just to look at big, beautiful mushrooms, I s'pose (although I've already seen enough after the wet summer we had in VT!)

-jp
Yea, they sure are pretty!
At 850 to 900 FPS you really do want a little expansion but scale it back so you get the needed penetration.
We do a lot of useless testing for fun but only animals will tell the truth. Did you know a 265 gr RD boolit from the .44 will penetrate 33" of soaked phone books?
It has been fun. My .475 with a 420 gr will do 37" of phone books and when we had to remove some mashed paper at the front, the boolit went through 36", a 1-1/8" thick pine board and then went half it's depth in seasoned oak firewood. This boolit shot into gallon jugs of water blew 4 sky high, split 2 more badly and made it through 14 jugs.
A Hornady 400 gr only went 14" in the paper. A Buffalo bore 420 gr only made 21".
None of this will tell me anything because with the massive penetration of the .475, it totally destroys the inside of deer but nothing will stop the thing, it still circles the earth! [smilie=l:
No matter what you use, you still need energy but it must be applied where needed inside the animal and if you can get full penetration, it is much better. I call it BOOLIT WORK.

[Boolseye]

Definitely. I saw what you're talking about when I tested some .45 SWCs out of my 1911. I had HP's them with the forster, but they were so hard that they didn't expand. went through 6 jugs of water and plowed into the dirt at the other side, and I thought, "yeah, but would the deer care?"
it would have been instant curtains (also convinced me I could hunt with the 1911, albeit to within about 30 yards).

[x101airborne]

Agree with 44Man - I have shot Elk with a 45 cal 430 grain 80% FP and they dropped within 20 years. - 45 cal hole going in and big hole on the exit side.

MZ velocity was about 1450.

I am just poking fun, not being literal.

I would HOPE they dropped within 20 years. Must be a heck of a good tracker!!:bigsmyl2::kidding:

[44man]

I am just poking fun, not being literal.

I would HOPE they dropped within 20 years. Must be a heck of a good tracker!!:bigsmyl2::kidding:
Yeah, I loved that one too. :kidding:
It is us old farts having to type with one finger. [smilie=1:

[tonyjones]

"It is us old farts having to type with one finger".

I resemble that remark. I'm a pretty good tracker, though I'm not sure I've got twenty years left to get the job done. Also, there's the possibility I might not remember what the job was.

Tony

[MGySgt]

I have never been accused of being able to spell or type