Dacron "filler" or "wad"

[NSB]

I'm reading a lot of posts in my search to find out what I would like to know about fillers and wads. I've been loading some 45-70 loads with dacron matting I bought in a roll and I cut it into 5/8"x5/8" squares. I might have been doing this wrong: I've been pushing the dacron wad down on top of the powder and then seating the bullet. Am I supposed to "fluff" it up first? Another question, what is a "ringed chamber"?. If a chamber were ringed, where would the ring be when looking into the barrel from the chamber end? How could you tell if you ringed a chamber? I'm kind of new at this with the big bore single shots and even after reading a lot of posts on the search function I'm not clear on this. Thanks

[geargnasher]

DO NOT TAMP ANY KIND OF WAD OR FILLER DOWN AGAINST THE POWDER.

Do a quick Google search for "ringed chamber" and you'll find quite a few good pictures of such.

What happens is the cartridge (usually straight-wall type) is loaded to somewhere around half-full of powder, and a wad of some type (card, vegetable, or even fiber of some sort) is shoved down against the powder to keep it in place while leaving an air space between the wad and the base of the boolit. When the powder lights, it rushes forward, burning in the free space, then suddenly encounters the boolit base like a brick wall. The gas pressure wave slams into the stationary boolit base and is deflected outward radially, putting extreme, concentrated pressure on a very narrow portion of the chamber just behind the boolit, resulting in a bulged ring that will often stick the brass in the chamber. Usually this is not enough to blow up the gun, but will certainly ruin the chamber.

The simple solution to avoiding this is understanding what causes it, then you can see that "fluffing" or "lofting" the Dacron and not using any kind of sealing wad betweent the filler and the powder will prevent this. Dacron is very springy, and doesn't need to be very dense to prevent powder migration, so it's natural density (as the batting will expand to when unrolled and left free for a while) plus just a few percent compression is all you need inside the case. The all-important thing is that the Dacron fills the space between the boolit base and the powder column completely, at just over it's natural density. Don't tamp it in there, poke it into the case with tweezers or a pocket screwdriver so you pull it in from the bottom rather than push it in from the top and over-compress it. When it's at the correct density and installed correctly, it should lightly touch the powder column and stick up 1/8" or so above where the boolit base will be seated, so when seated the boolit puts slight compressio on the Dacron.

For reference, a .30-'06 case loaded to 75% capacity with powder will only need about half a grain of Dacron for the correct density.

Gear

[mpmarty]

Why do you feel a need for dacron or any other "stuffing" mix. Stuffing is for turkeys.

[303Guy]

I see no problem with using fillers. The question was about the difference between Dacron as a filler and a wad, right? A filler as in to hold the powder against the 'coals' versus an under boolit wad? I'd give consideration to what Gear advises. He's shown himself to be a deep thinker and puts things to the test in a methodical way. I have read that Dacron can be used in a more compacted form in the 45-70. Just make sure there is no air-gap between wad or filler and the boolit (not that I have ringed a chamber).

[TNFrank]

I tried some Dacron filler with 3031 in a cast boolit load for a Sharps 45/70 carbine that I use to own. I finally just gave up and went the Pyrodex route with my 45/70. These big cases in older style rifles just seem to work best with black powder or pyrodex over modern smokeless powders. I'm sure many people have success with smokeless powder but for me using a cast boolit just seemed to work out better loading with pyrodex. Just use proper cleaning after shooting since pyrodex and black powder will leave corrosive salts in the barrel and be sure to use a magnum primer to touch off a big ol' case full of the stuff.

[nanuk]

I'm not sure you can actually use too much dacron.... well up to a point

I no longer have the Ross Seyfreid article, but IIRC, his comment that I remember is the "Ball of dacron was about the size of a lemon" when he was about to stuff it into the case. This was loose pillow style stuffing, not batting

now granted, Seyfreid was loading larger cases, but I think you can see the extremes here.

I guess what I'm saying is, Listen to Geargnasher. He has done the work. and check carefully, I think it is possible to use too little... You want enough in there to hold everything in place. Gear has tested his method and it works. I'd not use less than Gear's recommended amount.

[405]

gear, 303 and nanuk have covered it very well.

I think the physics involved in causing a ring in the chamber neck is the same or similar as what causes a ring (or bulge) in the barrel at the rear edge of a bore obstruction after a shot has been fired into it. I have looked at a lot of ringed barrels in shotguns, 22rfs and revolvers.

Ironically, the only actual ringed chamber necks I've seen have been in 100+ year old BP era rifles that never saw a round of modern smokeless. Many have at least a small, darkened peened area at about where the base of the bullet would be seated in the case. You have to look closely to see it, but many have it.

I shoot a lot of reduced smokeless loads with dacron filler in many different calibers and guns and have had no ringed chamber incidents. Knock on wood...

I don't see how <1 gr. fluffy dacron taking up space between powder and bullet base would be the cause for a ringed chamber. I CAN see how a hard fiber wad or a loose gas check sitting on top of a charge of smokeless powder with air space between that and the bullet base could cause a ring. I can also see how a less than 100% load density of BP could do the same thing.

[1Shirt]

I use dacron filler on all rifle cases where the charge does not fill at least 1/2 the case up to the mouth of the case. In that manner is is very easy to know if you have a double charge. As stated don't TAMP the stuff down on the powder. Just have enough in the case to sit on the powder, prevent the powder from shifting forward, and to seat the blt so that it touches or just barely compressed the dacron. This is particularly true with straight walled cases like 45-70, 444 etc.
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[paborn]

Having read a post by BULLSHOP on packing popcorn some long time ago, I discovered starched based packing peanuts at STAPLES. One weighs about 0.3 grains and is great for keeping reduced loading density loads down on the primer in straight walled cartridges. Roll one between thumb and forefinger and it will slide snugly into the case. A very large bag of these was 5 or 6 dollars. The bullet easily compresses the peanut when loaded. I use them to fill ANY available space between powder and bullet. SD in all cases has decreased in 45-70 and 458 Win mag loads, and accuracy has increased.

[1Shirt]

Think I will try the popcorn bit the next time I load 45-70 with 2400 just to see the results compared to my standard proceedure of using dacron filler.
1Shirt!:coffee: