I got this lead......

[snuffy]

I mentioned my aquisition of this lead on another thread here. Since then I have been working with it to see if it's worth anything. Here's what they look like.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/terrysoops/websize/P2130004.JPG

They were counterweights for a Natco multi spindle drill. It allowed the drill head to be raised or lowered with nuetral bouency. There were at least 40 of them on the machine, each weighs 90 pounds.

After finding a way to cut them into useable chuncks,(skill saw), I melted some in my lee pro 20. It cast quite nicely, seems to have some tin, but otherwise is dead soft. I cast some 45's using a lee 452-228-1R 2 cavity mold. I then cast some with the same mold from my small lee melter, with Midway 99.7% pure lead. I used a bottom pour ladle tight against the sprue plate. Weight difference was,, well there wasn't any difference. Could be I didn't have complete fill-out with the pure, it's difficult to get fill-out with pure lead!:roll:

One problem with the straight weight metal was the toughnees of the sprue. They did NOT want to cut easily.

I cast enough to lube some up and load them. I used lee liquid alox, with a lee push through 452 sizer. That's the ones on the left in this pic.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/terrysoops/websize/P2130003.JPG

After reading a bunch of very informative threads here, I came up with a formula of 15-5, original weight metal to linotype. I have, (well HAD), 2 pigs of lino, I cut it up into 1# chunks. I added 5 pounds to approx 15 pounds of the weight metal, then cast the boolits on the right in the above pic. The weight of the ones on the left, was 234 av. The weight of the alloyed was 228 av. The resulting boolits have a frosted silver look to them, fill out is good.

http://photos.imageevent.com/jptowns/terrysoops/websize/P2160006.JPG

Loaded some up, now for a range session! Bad pic, but what the hey.

Oh, while casting, I dropped some of the alloyed boolits in cold water. Afterwards I run both through my brand new lee hardness tester, NO DIFFERENCE!:( Conlusion is; there's no arsenic present!?? I do have some magnum shot here. Would half a pound be enough to allow quenching or heat treating?

[454PB]

Good pictures!

You probably don't need to heat treat the 75% weight alloy and 25% linotype alloy for use in .45 ACP (that's what the loaded rounds look like). What did they hardness test?

Try retesting the hardness in a few days to a week. I recently cast some test boolits of 75% pure lead and 25% linotype. I've been testing them every week or so, and they were up to 24.5 BHN on the last test.

[cbrick]

454 is correct, no need to quench bullets with that much antimony. They will be plenty hard for the 45 ACP, quenched they may well be hard enough to cause leading. If they harden to 20+ BHN they could be too hard for full power 357 Mag loads.

Heat treating or quenching doesn't make them harder when they hit the water, they will age harden over several days.

It's not the arsenic that enables them to be heat treated, its the antimony. Arsenic is a catalyst to improved BHN/time heat treatability.

Here is an article on heat treating. You don't need to heat treat for those bullets but this should give you a good idea of what for and why to:

http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

Rick

[Pepe Ray]

If this is a quiz, my guess is Babbit, HARD babbit. Looks like a spacer plate/wedge to me. Couldn't guess for what kind of machine, but we used similar configurations in the sawmill. Some for spacing saw blades some for holding chipper knives. Harder'n a w(lady of the night)'s heart. Good stuff.
Pepe Ray

[snuffy]

Good pictures!

You probably don't need to heat treat the 75% weight alloy and 25% linotype alloy for use in .45 ACP (that's what the loaded rounds look like). What did they hardness test?

Try retesting the hardness in a few days to a week. I recently cast some test boolits of 75% pure lead and 25% linotype. I've been testing them every week or so, and they were up to 24.5 BHN on the last test.

Thanks 454, the initial brinnel was 14.0, tonight is 6.5 days and it is 18.0.

I know these bullets are probably much too hard for the 45 acp, the alloy will be used for .357 and 44 mag also. So I wanted to be able to use it for everything. I also cast some 200 rfn from a lee six banger. I use a lot of those for shooting IPSC and IDPA. I also have a 9mm lee sixbanger for use in my 357 sig, it casts a 125 grain tumble lube boolit.

Rick, my heads a spinnin after reading some of that article on heat treating.:coffee: Need some sleep, then some coffee, been a long week!:???: While I prefere second shift, the weekend starts at noon on Sat! So I should NOT bother with the magnum shot? Gunshow tomorrow, so I won't get much loading done!

Pepe, I know exactly what the machine was, just not sure what tha lead is comprised of. I tested the brinnel of several boolits cast from it. Off the scale on the lee tester!:cool: I'd guess maybe 4? It's VERY soft, easily dented with my thumbnail.

Oh BTW I got 15 of those! In other words 1350 pounds of it! FREE!
My workplace gave it away rather than deal with hazardous waste,(DNR).

[cbrick]

snuffy,

Arsenic in itself doesn't make the alloy harder, there isn't enough of it if it could. Arsenic is simply the catalyst that will greatly improve the hardening and time curve when heat treating. Adding shot would add arsenic if you intend to heat treat and would be a benefit. If your not going to heat treat adding shot would be a waste. The alloy only needs a trace of arsenic (1/4 of 1% to 1/2%) to be effective.

The lino you added is 12% antimony and you blended it 3/1 lead/lino so you are at about 4% antimony plus about 1 1/2% tin from the lino. That alloy should work well for you. Keep us informed.

If your lead BHN tests at 4 it probably is pure lead or very close to it. There must be a lot of front stuffers out there that would love to be your best friend.

Rick

[arkypete]

Are you sure about the original purpose of those lead collars?
Looks like the new style wedding collar for grooms of 'liberated women'.
Jim

[WHITETAIL]

Snuffy,Welcome to the forum! Great find! Now melt all of them down and make ingets out of them first. Then mix a few with whatever you think is best. Make a few boolets and test them after a week or two for the hardness. Keep records of what you do and when. This way if you come up with a good mix. Then you repete it for the rest of the lead.

[R.M.]

But I thought pure lead was 5 BHN. :confused: :coffee:

R.M.

[snuffy]

Are you sure about the original purpose of those lead collars?
Looks like the new style wedding collar for grooms of 'liberated women'.
Jim

I thought that was a millstone! Or a ball & chain? You'd have to be a pencil neck to get it on, but it WOULD keep him in check!:roll:

Rick, I think for now I'm going to leave it as is. That should be as hard as I need it to be for my uses. Looks like it is age hardening pretty well. I'm pretty sure there's some tin in those weights. It cast nicely filled out boolits, if it was pure lead, it would have given me fits as all pure lead has in the past.:twisted:


Snuffy,Welcome to the forum! Great find! Now melt all of them down and make ingets out of them first. Then mix a few with whatever you think is best. Make a few boolets and test them after a week or two for the hardness. Keep records of what you do and when. This way if you come up with a good mix. Then you repete it for the rest of the lead.

That's the plan, whitetail. My buddy has a plumers pot, I plan to smelt it down into 1# ingots as soon as old man winter loosens his grip on Wis. He also has a line on a bunch of lino, should be able to get it at a reasonable price. I've never had a bunch of lead like this to work with, alway bits and peices here and there. It'll be nice to develope an alloy that I can depend on.


But I thought pure lead was 5 BHN.

R.M.

I was grasping a value out of thin air for that guess of a 4 BHN. The lee scale on their hardness tester goes to 8 BHN at .079. I just re-tested those boolits I cast two weeks ago from the un-altered weight metal. It hasn't age hardened at all, the indentation is at .096. I could interpolate what that means as to the lee scale, but I want to get over to the gun show!

I'll see what treasures I find there. I'll blow the dust out of my wallet when I get back[smilie=1:

[454PB]

I think it was Felix that posted this extended tarage table for the Lee tester:


http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8931/brinelltableforleadue2.jpg

[snuffy]

I think it was Felix that posted this extended tarage table for the Lee tester:


Thanks for that 454, that puts those weights at 5.4 BHN.

I made it to the range today, fired some of the loads I had made. The pure weight metal boolits did NOT do well at all. No leading, but eratic groups. Load was; mixed brass, fed LP, 5.5 W231, lightly crimped w/a lee FCD, loaded on my dillon 650.

Then a few of the alloyed, same load. MUCH BETTER!:drinks: I fired groups at 20 yds., outside,(nice day 18 degrees, no wind, sunny), then moved inside our heated 50 foot 10 position range. Shooting off a rest from the booth bench at a slow fire pistol target showed the same results. Picking all the same headstamp with the 200 RFN pure weight metal was okay, nice round group but a couple flyers. The aloyed lead was still better with the 228 1r lee mold.

Pistol used is my Springfield Armory 1911 A-1. It has target rear with a hi-viz front. The alloyed boolits stayed in the black of the slowfire target at 50 ft. It's a keeper!:-D

Oh the gunshow was a waste of my time!:twisted: Bunch of overpriced junk. Did get a little LED bore light that also has a red laser on it. Drives the dog nuts, won't pester him with it though. No components there!:( Wanted to get some primers!:-o