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No_1
02-15-2007, 06:40 PM
I just had a ARBOGA milling machine delivered to the home shop. Did not come with any info. It is a model a6041. I have done a web search but cannot find anything about it. Can anybody give me a lead? on topic eh ;)

Robert

Lee W
02-15-2007, 07:17 PM
http://www.lathes.co.uk/arboga/index.html

This guy says he has manuals for most machines.
It's a start...

dragonrider
02-15-2007, 07:45 PM
Never heard of them before but it looks like a very sturdy machine. I have always worked on Bridgeport machines, so when I wanted a machine for a home shop that is what I got. The Arboga appears to be a good machine for the home shop.

No_1
02-15-2007, 08:58 PM
Sorry, had to take a quote from young frankenstien.
Got this thing set in place. It must weigh 600-800+ lbs. A quick glance over told me what I need to fire it up. Lube level was in the site glass, power feed switch was broken and main disconnect needed wire/plug for power. A quick trip to the local LOWES got me what I needed for modest sume of $31. I made the plug up so I can swap it for my air compressor plug and be good to go. I turned on the breaker then threw the main disconnect switch and was happy to not see smoke. The time for testing was here. I turned the switch to forward and it ran. Turned it to reverse and it ran again. I cycled thru the speeds and all seems good. A quick glance at the site glass showed me foam but I was planning on a oil change anyway (anybody have an idea what viscosity?). The power feed works in both directions so that is good to go also. I have many tools on hand already but a glance at the MSC catalog on my bench tells me I am going to break the bank with this thing before it is all over.....

Lee W, I contacted that guy that ya'll pointed me toward on the website. Time will tell if he has the manuals / IPB's for this thing and how much that will cost.

Thanks for listening,
Robert

grumpy one
02-15-2007, 09:22 PM
I took a look at what a dealer claimed was an Arboga but on inspection found was an Energy (Indian exact copy). It was in need of a fair amount of TLC and was priced way over the top so I didn't spend a lot of time. However that was the Arboga U2508 - I've never heard of the one you mentioned.

The Arboga EM825 and the later U2508, and the Indian copy, all had one fairly important shortcoming in common. The motor and gearbox are placed directly above the spindle, so it doesn't have a hollow spindle or drawbar. They use a fairly weird system for screwing on a clamp nut to the spindle nose, to hold the tool in place. This is fraught with difficulty for those of us who get our tools second-hand and sometimes find them to be non-standard in some way.

If it has the screw-on system rather than a drawbar, I personally would be a bit reluctant to buy it. I have enough trouble when I can tap the tools out from the top, without trying to use a puller-system from the bottom.

Incidentally I got a manual from that lathesUK guy for the mill I ended up buying. He is a bit confused and charges like a wounded rhino, but seems nice enough otherwise.

No_1
02-15-2007, 09:31 PM
This one is one with the drawbar screw. It lookes nothing like the pics on that site. Those look almost like a drill press. This looks like a real milling machine. It is quite the heavy machine and the price could not be refused. The gearbox is kinda noisy but I will do a oil change and see what happens. I will post pics this weekend. What other names were they sold under? Energy?

Robert


I took a look at what a dealer claimed was an Arboga but on inspection found was an Energy (Indian exact copy). It was in need of a fair amount of TLC and was priced way over the top so I didn't spend a lot of time. However that was the Arboga U2508 - I've never heard of the one you mentioned.

The Arboga EM825 and the later U2508, and the Indian copy, all had one fairly important shortcoming in common. The motor and gearbox are placed directly above the spindle, so it doesn't have a hollow spindle or drawbar. They use a fairly weird system for screwing on a clamp nut to the spindle nose, to hold the tool in place. This is fraught with difficulty for those of us who get our tools second-hand and sometimes find them to be non-standard in some way.

If it has the screw-on system rather than a drawbar, I personally would be a bit reluctant to buy it. I have enough trouble when I can tap the tools out from the top, without trying to use a puller-system from the bottom.

Incidentally I got a manual from that lathesUK guy for the mill I ended up buying. He is a bit confused and charges like a wounded rhino, but seems nice enough otherwise.

grumpy one
02-15-2007, 10:01 PM
Energy is the only copy-name that Tony at LathesUK seems to have found.

If the gearbox is making a noise other than a gear whine, you need to get inside it. Even if it's not, you need to clean it out - the steel fragments produced by wear aren't good for it.

The feed gearbox of my mill was a basket case when I bought it; even some of the motor winding was hanging out. It was all fixed at no cost apart from bearings, an oil seal, and oil but it took a while. The thing is, some of these minor problems turn into avalanches if you leave them be. I also dislike stopping in the middle of a job to fix the machine.

And don't emulate my mistake of seeing a bunch of grease points all over the machine, and pumping grease into them. For some strange historical reason milling machine grease points take way oil - grease goes into a different type of fitting. Since some genius had chosen to connect one of the grease points to its ultimate destination with a piece of nylon tube, which immediately burst deep in the inaccessible bowels of the table-lift bevel gears, I had the opportunity to curse at great length while laying on my back in the coolant sump, not being able to see what I was doing with my fingers far above. Then the brass fitting way up there stripped. Fond memories.

No_1
02-16-2007, 06:11 AM
It is gear wine for sure. More so in forward than reverse. The flush/oil change is coming as soon as I find out what weight oil to put in it. Till then I will just wipe it down and do the general famileriztion of the machine. I have a pretty good selection of fluids at work since we have a full machine shop. Just need to figure out what I need here so I can get a gallon of this and a gallon of that.

Robert


Energy is the only copy-name that Tony at LathesUK seems to have found.

If the gearbox is making a noise other than a gear whine, you need to get inside it. Even if it's not, you need to clean it out - the steel fragments produced by wear aren't good for it.

The feed gearbox of my mill was a basket case when I bought it; even some of the motor winding was hanging out. It was all fixed at no cost apart from bearings, an oil seal, and oil but it took a while. The thing is, some of these minor problems turn into avalanches if you leave them be. I also dislike stopping in the middle of a job to fix the machine.

And don't emulate my mistake of seeing a bunch of grease points all over the machine, and pumping grease into them. For some strange historical reason milling machine grease points take way oil - grease goes into a different type of fitting. Since some genius had chosen to connect one of the grease points to its ultimate destination with a piece of nylon tube, which immediately burst deep in the inaccessible bowels of the table-lift bevel gears, I had the opportunity to curse at great length while laying on my back in the coolant sump, not being able to see what I was doing with my fingers far above. Then the brass fitting way up there stripped. Fond memories.

utk
02-16-2007, 06:17 AM
I had an Arboga EM825 drill/mill, after my late father. Had to sell it, and a good lathe too, when mom left the house to move to a retirement home...

Sad, beautiful machines both of them but too big to house in my garage!

The machine was manufactured in the town of Arboga (Sweden), an hour's drive from where I live.

Urban

No_1
02-16-2007, 06:47 AM
My little shop is a two car attached garage. Pretty much everything in here is related to me only and it is getting full. I have room for a few more moderate machines but once it gets too full to work then I guess it is time to move to the next one. The girls cut through when they are coming and going and the wife stores extras in my refrigerator but that is about all I see of them. I still have a couple of boxes of her stuff in the middle of the floor that needs tending to but she has not gotten around to that yet. She complained once that she would like to one day park in the garage but has yet to concede to the idea of a 4000 sf shop which would mean a new house further from town with a wee bit more yard than we have now.....

Robert

The youngest has ask why I even have a house since I spend all my time out here. All I could think of for an answer is that the local regs will not let me have just a garage in my sector of town....


I had an Arboga EM825 drill/mill, after my late father. Had to sell it, and a good lathe too, when mom left the house to move to a retirement home...

Sad, beautiful machines both of them but too big to house in my garage!

The machine was manufactured in the town of Arboga (Sweden), an hour's drive from where I live.

Urban

carpetman
02-16-2007, 12:36 PM
No1---Could we get a group buy on that gear wine? I'd sign up for a gallon.

No_1
02-16-2007, 02:09 PM
No problem! It is kinda tough to digest. I am use to it because of having 3 daughters but it may be kinda rough on ewe...


Robert


No1---Could we get a group buy on that gear wine? I'd sign up for a gallon.

Pepe Ray
02-16-2007, 02:24 PM
Bob and Ray lighten up our day. :-D

Pepe Ray

No_1
02-16-2007, 09:35 PM
They were a popular radio show back in the day right?

Robert


Bob and Ray lighten up our day. :-D

Pepe Ray

No_1
02-16-2007, 09:40 PM
Here are the pictures I said I would post. There is a nameplate on the side that indicates "ARBOGA MACHINERY". Has anyone seen a model like this? I did the oil change. It appears the gearbox was filled with 90W gear oil. That stuff stinks! I drained & flushed the gearbox, removed and cleaned the site glass then refilled with Shell Tellus Oil 32. I have run it through the gears and run it for about 30 minutes. The oil change did a world of good and the gearhead is a lot more quiet. The collets arrived today as well as the 2" fly cutter, the drill chuck the vise and some other stuff. I am still waiting on the toe clamp set. What fun! A little more attention and it will be ready for the first cut.

Robert

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/ARBOGAA6041a.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/ARBOGAA6041b.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/ARBOGAA6041c.jpg
This is the gearbox
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/ARBOGAA6041d.jpg
This is the feed for the table
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/ARBOGAA6041e.jpg

grumpy one
02-16-2007, 10:02 PM
That looks as if it might be a Chinese mill sold by Arboga. Not that that would be a problem - a lot of Chinese mills are sold and the buyers seem to be happy. It would mean it was a lot easier to get parts.

It seems to be quite a modern machine, and has a tilt head. You will find there are certain limitations due to the round column - when you go beyond the range of quill movement and have to move the head up or down on the column, you will lose location and have to set up again. A bit of a frustration on some jobs, but the issue will seldom arise.

If the oil in the head smelled, it might have been EP (extreme pressure) oil used for hypoid rear axles on rear drive cars. If so, it does not belong in that gearbox because it slowly eats copper (including copper alloys such as brass or bronze bushes), as well as very slightly eating even steel under certain conditions. Here in Australia it is a bit of a hassle to get heavy oil that is not EP, which is a downer because you have problems getting oil for stick-shift gearboxes. Fortunately you can get the right stuff from boutique outlets, at a price.

No_1
02-16-2007, 10:43 PM
Gear lube oil is exactly what it smelled like and I have tore up enough tranmissions and rear ends to never forget that smell. As a matter of fact, I had it in the drain pan on the floor of my shop for about an hour or so then drained it into the use oil can outside my shop. I can still smell it in here. A closer look at the tag on the mill indicates it was made in Tiawan. I agree that not having a rising knee on it could present problems but I believe if I set up correctly I will not have a problem. It does appear to be a modern machine and I know it came from a large shop. I know the smaller machines seem to get less use in big shops so I am hoping it is still pretty tight. I will know the real shape of it once I start into the testing phase. I would like to have a manual or at least a parts breakdown of it but being of very mechanical background I should never have a problem I could not figure out including a total rebuild if needed. The electric motor does not appear to be original to the machine and is quiet while running. The wiring installation is clean and no shortcuts were taken. It has a electrical disconnect switch on the lower back and also a 120 volt plug attached to it for the table drive unit, I will modify that for extra outlets once I get a good flexible light attached. I picked up a Digimatic Digital Quill readout unit http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMAKA=09525247
for added accuracy. I will need to make some adapters but should have that attached by end of next week. I want to thank you for chiming in with the info you have added. Please feel free to add anymore knowledge you wish.

Robert

category_site=STARTOOL&cat_id=6597
That looks as if it might be a Chinese mill sold by Arboga. Not that that would be a problem - a lot of Chinese mills are sold and the buyers seem to be happy. It would mean it was a lot easier to get parts.

It seems to be quite a modern machine, and has a tilt head. You will find there are certain limitations due to the round column - when you go beyond the range of quill movement and have to move the head up or down on the column, you will lose location and have to set up again. A bit of a frustration on some jobs, but the issue will seldom arise.

If the oil in the head smelled, it might have been EP (extreme pressure) oil used for hypoid rear axles on rear drive cars. If so, it does not belong in that gearbox because it slowly eats copper (including copper alloys such as brass or bronze bushes), as well as very slightly eating even steel under certain conditions. Here in Australia it is a bit of a hassle to get heavy oil that is not EP, which is a downer because you have problems getting oil for stick-shift gearboxes. Fortunately you can get the right stuff from boutique outlets, at a price.

grumpy one
02-16-2007, 10:59 PM
Sounds as if you should have fun with it Robert. There are some table-top mill-drills that have a dovetailed column so you can move up and down on the column without losing location - the Rong Fu 45 is probably the best known example, see this URL:
http://www.lukesmachinery.com/5-RF-45.html
However that feature makes it more expensive and you lose the (small) advantage of being able to swing the head laterally by rotating it around the column. Knee mills are awfully space-intensive - mine crowded me out of my own workshop, which I'd designed for a Bridgeport then put in something a bit bigger and lost my workbench in the tradeoff. It also cost half as much for delivery as it did to buy - it weighs over a ton, and my driveway has a 30% slope. Then I had to take the table off to get it through the workshop doorway. You don't have to be crazy to install a knee mill at home, but it helps.

I'm guessing it has a Morse No. 3 taper in the spindle. You'll need to buy a lot of tools and accessories over a period. This could keep you even poorer than rifle-buying.

gzig5
02-17-2007, 01:43 AM
Robert,
I've heard a lot of poeple complain about losing center when moving the head up or down on these types of round column mills. My thought is to add a 1" guide rod supported by collars at the top and bottom. A linear bearing or bushing attached to the head would ride the rod and keep the head pretty well centered, to the tolerance of the guide bushing/bearing. The trick would be getting the rod perfectly parallel to the column and tight tolerances on the bushing. My little EMCO (Austrian, not Chinese) mill has a round column as well, but it has a key the length of the column with an adjustment gib in the head to keep the head lined up. Vertical movement is via an Acme leadscrew fixed to the top of the column with the backlash adjustable nut fixed in the head. Nice winter project for you. Enjoy your mill and try not to spend the kid's college fund on tooling.
Greg

No_1
02-17-2007, 07:55 AM
That sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the tip.

Robert


Robert,
I've heard a lot of poeple complain about losing center when moving the head up or down on these types of round column mills. My thought is to add a 1" guide rod supported by collars at the top and bottom. A linear bearing or bushing attached to the head would ride the rod and keep the head pretty well centered, to the tolerance of the guide bushing/bearing. The trick would be getting the rod perfectly parallel to the column and tight tolerances on the bushing. My little EMCO (Austrian, not Chinese) mill has a round column as well, but it has a key the length of the column with an adjustment gib in the head to keep the head lined up. Vertical movement is via an Acme leadscrew fixed to the top of the column with the backlash adjustable nut fixed in the head. Nice winter project for you. Enjoy your mill and try not to spend the kid's college fund on tooling.
Greg

No_1
02-17-2007, 08:00 AM
Grumpy One,
Over the years I have gathered tooling but see there is a tremendous amount that I still need (want). The link to Lukes Machinery you provided shows a mill almost exactly like the one I have here. They have another "Morgan" mill that is a belt drive unit that is sitting on a stand. If you put that stand on the mill in your link you pretty much have the mill I have here. There are slight differences such as the on/off switch but besides that it is almost an exact duplicate picture wise. I did a google search for "morgan milling machines" and cannot come up with a manufacture contact. I e-mailed Lukes Machainery and questioned them for a POC at the manufacturer. Would you have any info reguarding that?

Thanks again,

Robert


Sounds as if you should have fun with it Robert. There are some table-top mill-drills that have a dovetailed column so you can move up and down on the column without losing location - the Rong Fu 45 is probably the best known example, see this URL:
http://www.lukesmachinery.com/5-RF-45.html
However that feature makes it more expensive and you lose the (small) advantage of being able to swing the head laterally by rotating it around the column. Knee mills are awfully space-intensive - mine crowded me out of my own workshop, which I'd designed for a Bridgeport then put in something a bit bigger and lost my workbench in the tradeoff. It also cost half as much for delivery as it did to buy - it weighs over a ton, and my driveway has a 30% slope. Then I had to take the table off to get it through the workshop doorway. You don't have to be crazy to install a knee mill at home, but it helps.

I'm guessing it has a Morse No. 3 taper in the spindle. You'll need to buy a lot of tools and accessories over a period. This could keep you even poorer than rifle-buying.

grumpy one
02-17-2007, 06:29 PM
Grumpy One,
Over the years I have gathered tooling but see there is a tremendous amount that I still need (want). The link to Lukes Machinery you provided shows a mill almost exactly like the one I have here. They have another "Morgan" mill that is a belt drive unit that is sitting on a stand. If you put that stand on the mill in your link you pretty much have the mill I have here. There are slight differences such as the on/off switch but besides that it is almost an exact duplicate picture wise. I did a google search for "morgan milling machines" and cannot come up with a manufacture contact. I e-mailed Lukes Machainery and questioned them for a POC at the manufacturer. Would you have any info reguarding that?

Thanks again,

Robert

Robert, The Rong Fu 45 in the picture at the URL I posted previously has a rectangular column with a dovetail vertical slide, while yours has a round column so there is some play in yours allowing slight sideways movement of the head when it is not clamped to the column.

There are several Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers of these drill-mills, and they each have a range of models. Rong Fu is perhaps the most reputable of them, but the visual differences aren't all that great. Yours might be an RF40.

As well as being sold by various distributors such as Enco, these mills are also sold under their own brand by Grizzly and Smithy. If you look at the RF40 at this site it looks quite a bit like yours, but the one in the picture does not have the optional power feed:
http://americanmachinetools.com/benchtop_milling.htm

If you compare it with the RF45 in the picture immediately below, you can see the difference in the vertical column.

Many other manufacturers and/or brands sell similar machines, with some difference in detail such as switchgear, and quality. On average the Taiwanese ones are supposed to be better than the Chinese ones, but averages conceal a lot of detail.

I suggest you find which brand and model is completely identical to yours, so you can buy spare parts.


Geoff

No_1
02-18-2007, 07:59 AM
Geoff,
The RU-45 looks exactly like mine as you have said. The power feed appears to be an aftermarket unit. Align is the manufacturer and the model # is AL99SP and is a 135 in/lb unit. I have contacted the vendor on the site you referenced asking about manuals. Time will tell if I can get them. In the mean time, all is going well.

Robert



Robert, The Rong Fu 45 in the picture at the URL I posted previously has a rectangular column with a dovetail vertical slide, while yours has a round column so there is some play in yours allowing slight sideways movement of the head when it is not clamped to the column.

There are several Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers of these drill-mills, and they each have a range of models. Rong Fu is perhaps the most reputable of them, but the visual differences aren't all that great. Yours might be an RF40.

As well as being sold by various distributors such as Enco, these mills are also sold under their own brand by Grizzly and Smithy. If you look at the RF40 at this site it looks quite a bit like yours, but the one in the picture does not have the optional power feed:
http://americanmachinetools.com/benchtop_milling.htm

If you compare it with the RF45 in the picture immediately below, you can see the difference in the vertical column.

Many other manufacturers and/or brands sell similar machines, with some difference in detail such as switchgear, and quality. On average the Taiwanese ones are supposed to be better than the Chinese ones, but averages conceal a lot of detail.

I suggest you find which brand and model is completely identical to yours, so you can buy spare parts.


Geoff