Single or double lube grooves

[Sundogg1911]

Is there a difference in performance with molds that have 2 lube grooves instead of just one? I find it a little easier getting good results with molds that have only one. :neutral: I hate to pass up buying a mold that has two lube grooves if for some reason this is better. I have one double lube groove mold on 45 ACP 230 Gr. RN. I have almost the identical mold (actually 2 others....an RCBS and a Lyman) with a Single lube groove and I notice no difference, and I notice no more barrel leading with either. Just curious :castmine:

[44man]

I never noticed any difference either. Overall design seems to be more important.

[NVcurmudgeon]

If I were trying to get bogged down in detail, I guess I would opt for a single lube groove on a pistol mould, because there would be two fewer sharp edges to NOT fill out. OTOH, with a little casting experience one learns how to make good boolits with any decent mould. Then there are rifle boolits, in which we accept multiple grooves without thinking about it. Check out a Loverin type rifle mould!

[Dale53]

One lube groove is my preference for a pistol bullet. I can cast either design without problems but sizing is sometimes a problem with multiple grooves (I use a Star sizer, mostly) getting lube in all of the grooves.

Dale53

[felix]

I tend to agree with 44man, in that the boolit must be tailored to the job on hand. Not too many years ago the guns were designed first, and then boolits/bullets came last in the chain of events. These days I think the direction is changing. Bullet design first, and then the gun made to shoot that projectile.
Lately, I have been favoring the the design(s) we have been doing where some lube grooves are up front (multi crimp groove) plus one bigger groove towards the back. To make this boolit effective, those crimp grooves must be filled with lube without regard to where the crimp grooves reside after the boolit is loaded. I think, don't know, if I would like to have the small 0.020-0.030 grooves more standard in form, rather than in the crimp style form. Plain ol' 90 degree "V" form seems to be sufficient for all purposes. At any rate, the center of gravity must be below the center line of the boolit, and the center of pressure right next to it, more like the boolits being designed by Tom. I don't see this info in the designs by Bob, so I can't say anything about them except that they "look" good. ... felix

[UweJ]

I´ve seen a lot of folks that only lube the bottom groove.If you don´t push it to hard that should do it too. Thats for handguns.
Uwe

[Sundogg1911]

i like the single lube groove better also, but I was just wondering what the theory is behind multiple lube grooves. i guess it doesnt really matter as long as they function correctly

[7br]

One benefit I can see for multiple grooves is that it allows the caster some control over how much lube to use on the bullet.

[jonk]

I'm not convinced that lube is even NEEDED with some handgun bullets- so would say that 1 lube groove is fine. I like more just as I like the aesthetics of it, but have rarely, if ever noticed a dif in performance.

[leftiye]

I like lots of grooves. If they weren't so durned long, Id shoot Llewellen designs in my revolters! Well, maybe not. I have a theory that revolters would shoot better with short noses (not wadcutters, but with a long bore diameter portion), and the bore diameter portion already in the throat when chambered. Or with a freebore in an automatc pistol or in a rifle, and same deal, bullet in the freebore and against the leade.

[Bass Ackward]

There are design advantages to both single and multiple grooves. Wide, deep grooves make for a longer bearing area for the same weight. A wide deep groove is easier to colapse at handgun pressures if you need the bullet to slug up.

If you don't need to slug .003 or .004, and you are filling your throats, you probably won't notice much difference.

IF you have a worn forcing cone, lube farther up the bullet may not be blown off. And you stand a better chance of keeping it in a narrower groove. If your gun has a tendency to lead, the farther up a bullet you can get lube, the less of it you will probably need. Narrow grooves store lubed better.

So design can help if you have a particular problem. And lube grooves can be designed and located as Felix says to establish important balance points. So there can be many reasons that someone designs a bullet in a particular fashion. Unfortunately, we are left to try and figure out why which leaves so many in the dark about bullet design today for something designed 60 years ago or more. We simply shoot it and see if it works.

[UweJ]

Sundogg,I´ve been asking around and got the following information.
Boolits travelling through the barrel are lubed from the boolit ahead of them.It would take 20 - 30 rounds to get the lube buildup needed in a freshly cleaned barrel.
1 lubegroove would be enough but with more you can change the ballance of the boolit,lube the bottom grove and you would be able to change center of gravity if needed,lube the front and it would move forward .
We have a guy here who makes boolits for a couple of german hotshots shooting international and I can always ask.
Hope this helps a bit, I shure learned something new.
Uwe

[leftiye]

So, we definitely should pre lube a clean barrel?

[felix]

Never shoot lubed boolits in a dry barrel. Pre-lubed? No, not really. Slickened down with solvent, light oil, yes, and then simi-dry it leaving no standing liquids. ... felix

[BAGTIC]

Never shoot lubed boolits in a dry barrel. Pre-lubed? No, not really. Slickened down with solvent, light oil, yes, and then simi-dry it leaving no standing liquids. ... felix

I wipe mine with a patch soaked in Break Free.

[BigSlick]

I've been using Corrosion X and it seems to make a difference in semi auto with the first few rounds.

Without it, one pistol I have will lead with just about any bullet of any size due to a slightly rough bore. I'm kinda paranoid to lap it, since barrels in 41AE don't grow on trees. It's incredibly accurate or I would start trying to improve it.

Gee I miss Evan.

Even with a wet patch of Breakfree followed by a dry patch it will lead like the dickens with 20-30 rounds.

Over the past couple of years I've been using Corrosion X and the leading is reduced quite a bit. It still inhales lead, but what's left behind is cleared by the pass of a cleaning brush. Without it, get the Chore Boy and some elbow grease.

For lubrication of the slide etc, I use something else (Militec 1) and had to figure a use to finish off the CX. It ain't perfect, but it works pretty good

'Slick
________
Cumming (http://www.****tube.com/video/15951/busty-babe-squeezes-a-cumming-black-cock-between-her-tits)

[26Charlie]

Sundogg - A friend of mine, 81 now (was in Amphibs in WWII - landing craft coxswain) knew Guy Loverin, the designer of many of the multi-grooved designs in Lyman's list. My friend told me Loverin believed you couldn't get too much lube on a cast bullet. That was in the beeswax&tallow days. Along came synthetic lubes, in particular Alox (maybe 1970?) that allowed higher velocities in rifles without leading. Experimentation in pistols with their lower velocities showed that you didn't need much Alox - one groove would do, the bottom one of two-groove designs. In fact, some tests showed better accuracy with less lube than with all grooves filled. Tom Gray in the CBA published some articles about what he called "lube purging" which seemed to show that every tenth or 13th shot could be expected to be out of the group if too much lube was used. He is a machinist of note and a competition CB shooter.

The answer? depends on a lot of factors in combination, like all the Cast Bullet sport. I personally had very little accuracy from Lee .44 pistol designs with the bluff semiwadcutter and two grooves plus crimp groove that they first came out with. Never really figured out why. Lee truncated-cone design with one groove for the .45 ACP shoots very well. All our answers are what doctors would call (& therefore dismiss) "anecdotal" - based on what happened in individual case trials. It is what makes the sport fun.