casting using only 1 cavity out of many. Heat issues?

[Whiterabbit]

Hi guys,

Stupid question, but does anyone cast or has anyone tried at any time casting from one cavity out of many, such as a lee 6 cavity mold? I'm curious if the very large block and small heat load affect mold temp in a significant way so as to make casting difficult.

I'm interested in aluminum molds.

Reason I ask is I'm interested someday (hopefully this year!) in buying an accurate mold, but don't know which bullet will perform best. So I figure, buy them all, 5 designs in a 5 cavity mold. First castings will be from all cavities but eventually I'll setlle on a few designs and for a while cast maybe just one design out of the bunch. But if the aluminum will shed heat so fast I can't run a single cavity cast, I have to rethink the strategy.

any issues casting just one cavity in a big Al block?

[ku4hx]

How much is a custom five cavity mold with five different boolit profiles going to cost you? I'm definitely just guessing, but I'd suspect the cost of a single mold like that, if I understand correctly what you're wanting to do, is going to be very expensive. And given you're going to use it only a very few times and not for production, I'd think very, very expensive in the long run.

[williamwaco]

Rabbit.

I frequently cast rifle bullets using one cavity of a two cavity Lee mold. I do this when I am trying for maximum accuracy. It works fine. ( Although I can't tell that it helps the accuracy any.)

I occasionally cast from a single cavity of a six cavity Lee mold. I first fill all six cavities ten or twelve times to get the entire mold hot. Then I cast in cavity two. ( Second one back from the front of the mold ). I do this also for accuracy testing. It also works fine for 20 to 30 bullets. I don't know what would happen if your tried for a long session. You would probably eventually need to reheat the mold by casting it full a few times.

As to which design works best . . .
1: You can buy five double cavity Lee molds for less money than one custom five cavity and with no wait.

2: List the designs you like and ask the guys what works best for them.

3: I don't know how to do it, but it sounds like a good subject for a survey.

[mpmarty]

I always begin a casting session with only one hole filled on my six bangers. The one furthest from the handles. Then two then three and so forth until the mold is up to temp.

[Gohon]

I always begin a casting session with only one hole filled on my six bangers. The one furthest from the handles. Then two then three and so forth until the mold is up to temp.

That's the same way I do it. Sometimes I'll start with two cavities if I think the mold has heated up enough on the hot plate, and then work up to all six.

[Whiterabbit]

awesome. Sounds like we are go for the project. As to those who brought up cost concern, Thank you as well. Seems like the cost of a custom mold from the good custom guys here starts around $70 and up. So to try, say, 5 designs would be $350 in molds. The 5 hole custom as per pricing on the accurate molds website is just over $200. Seems like it will actually save money in the long run, assuming the goal is to try each design.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

One thing I do know, it would NOT be one from NOE.

I suggest you look at the price differential between two and five cavity moulds. The process is a standard machine shop jobbie. The set up is the major cost. When you add a different mould cut, the set up starts all over again. Simple example: type the number 5 five times on your keyboard. 55555. Easy and fast. Now, type your zip code. 62072. More time and effort.
There are machinists here who can explain it better, but I think this is the simple answer.

Rich

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you Rich, but I don't understand. I already mentioned I've used the accurate molds website "price a mold" page, all I have to do is submit the order. I needed confirmation there wasn't an engineering issue, not a cost issue. But I already mentioned that the price is just over $200 for 5 designs which is far less than the cost of 5 single cavity molds @ ~$70+ each.

I do work in the capital equipment industry and understand what our machine shop suppliers must go through to produce parts, including the differences between running one or two parts versus dozens. It shows up in our quotes. I discuss setup vs high production in detail with the machine shop foremen when we "do lunch". I had a part time job in college as an assistant in a machine shop and dealt with the concept first hand. And I'm a weekend warrior at home and agonize over running a simple operation that takes 20-30 minutes to brace and align a workpiece (usually wood in this case) just to go through a 4 second cutting operation.

But even not knowing that (seemed unnecessary to explain given what I was asking for), I had mentioned the pricing on the website for the mold, so maybe I just don't understand why you suggest I look at the price differential when I already mentioned it in the post just above yours? Did I miss something else that is critical? Am I walking into a hole and don't see it coming?

[mpmarty]

Five LEE two cavity molds = $100 why mess with the arcane solution you're suggesting?

[Whiterabbit]

Lee doesn't make the molds I'm looking for on their website. Does lee cut custom molds for $20 a pop? That solution WOULD be half cost!

(I already own every factory lee mold for the bullet size I'm looking at with the features I'm looking for.)

[williamwaco]

Rabbit,

Again, I really don't want to see you spend that kind of money to try something out and then throw it away. ( Scottish genes )

Why don't you list the mold numbers you want to try and wee is some one here already has one?

[southpaw]

I bet that you would be better trying 5 different 2 (or however many you desire) cavity moulds, keep the one that you like and sell the others. That way you are not stuck with a mould that you are using only one cavity in. I would keep it atleast 2 cavities to help with resale of the ones that you are going to sell. Just a thought.

Jerry Jr.

[Whiterabbit]

southpaw, think there is much of a market here for really light 45 caliber gas checked non-hollowpoint molds?

[MikeS]

Whiterabbit: Another idea. Goto the boolit exchange subforum here, and post the designs you're interested in trying. Perhaps other members here already have some of the moulds you're interested in. You could get some sample boolits from them to test in your guns, and see which ones you like the best. Then you could buy the 4 or 5 cavity mould(s) and be able to use all the cavities!

[MikeS]

Thinking more about your idea of having a 5 cavity mould with 5 different cavities, gave me an idea. Maybe some of the custom mould makers could make up some 5 cavity moulds with 5 of their more popular designs, say in 45ACP as an example, they could then sell the mould to somebody that wants one of the designs, but isn't sure which one. They could then offer a guaranteed buyback of the mould, say less $25.00 (assuming it's still in good usable condition). They could then take $20.00 (or some other amount) off of the purchase of a followup mould in the cavity choice(s) the customer wants. If the idea works out, he could even expand it so he has a 'sampler' mould for 45ACP, another one for 45LC, one for 38 target, 38 SWC, etc.

Dick Dastardly of BigLube offers sample packs of 25 pre cast boolits, with the choice of 5 of any 5 mould designs he sells, his lineup of boolit designs would be perfect for something like this, he could have a 6 cavity mould with his 45 caliber designs, and another for his 38 caliber designs. Now that he stopped dealing with Lee and is either making the moulds himself, or having them made for him, I don't think it would take too much for him to make such a mould. And who ever does this would actually be selling the mould rather than renting it, so should somebody not return it, it wouldn't really matter, as they've already paid for it! One advantage to this over his current sample pack is that customers could cast the boolit(s) from whatever alloy of lead they want to use.

Maybe this is a crazy idea that wouldn't work, or maybe it's a crazy idea that would work wonderfully!

[Whiterabbit]

That was my take on southpaw's idea as well, slightly different. Rather than sell nonworking designs, I wonder if this forum's members wouldn't want to rent a mold like that. Say, $20 plus paying all shipping costs or something like that, for a few weeks give or take, to cast as much as they wanted, then return the mold to me. No need to get the moldmaker involved, the idea would live or die as a good or bad idea with me.

still thinking about it as a concept.

[mdi]

As a sales tool, that type of mold may have some value: to demonstrate different designs. If I were to experiment with different bullet designs, I would opt for a 2 cavity mold and cast from that. If that design doesn't meet your wants/needs, it can easily be sold or given away. A 5 cavity, 5 design bullet mold seems to be a "white elephant". Once you purchase one, I think you'ld be stuck with it (unless you like 4 or 5 of the bullets from that mold, it won't be of much worth), unless you learn to cast one cavity in a 5 cavity mold. But then again, you may be able to modify one or two cavities to "customize" or improve the design and when perfected, purchase another mold with all cavities the same...

jes an old guy's thoughts. I would not want to be the one to stiffle your creativity/ideas.

[Whiterabbit]

Alright, if I explore the idea of trying a series of 2 cavity molds, it's a much more expensive option, even if it's possible to sell them. In my experience, buying stuff is a one way street. I've never had much luck selling used equipment (usually it's so specialized noone has any interest.)

So to hedge my bets I'd want to limit what molds I ordered. Meaning I'd have to have a much more clear concept of what would work well. If I go down this path I'll start a new thread to talk about bullet design to theorize what might work well in a given gun knowing a few givens.

I just can't justify five $70 molds compared to one $200 mold at this time.

[ku4hx]

Right now at MidwayUSA five dual cavity Lee molds are a hair under $88 total without any taxes and S&H added in. I'm with WilliamWaco, buy the Lee molds; they are capable of casting superior boolits. Sure some are duds, but I've bought more than one of the $70 molds that were dogs too.

But if your getting a five cavity mold why cast from only one cavity at a time? The idea must be to try out all five designs so why not just get the alloy and mold up to temp and cast all five say 25-30 times. That way you'll have 25-30 of each boolit and you do it all in one, maybe two, sessions.

Boolits you decide are not what you want go back in the alloy bucket. The ones that work are the ones you get your high end production mold cut for.

[para45lda]

Has anyone answered the original question? I had to scroll back up to see, which is sad.

Wes

[Whiterabbit]

Hi Wes,

WilliamWaco answered in Post #3, mpmarty in post #4, and Gohan in post #5. The rest is fleshing out the discussion, which I appreciate also.

ku4hx,

I'm really, really, really struggling here, maybe it's extreme ignorance on my part, but you are now the third person to suggest I buy five different lee molds, and this is now the third time I am addressing that suggestion. I'm either seriously missing something important here, or not communicating effectively.


Lee only makes one gas checked 45 cal mold. I own it. Where are the other five?

---------------------

Your other suggestion as I read it is to buy the 5 cavity mold, find the winner, then buy a multi-cavity mold using the winning bullet. That was kinda the original plan, and what other folks are suggesting is a waste of resources. That's what we are discussing.

At the risk of communicating poorly again, let me be more specific. At a cost of $200+, the tester mold has to be more useful than two casting sessions of "cranking on all cylinders". There will also be associated wait time between finding a winner and purchasing the high end mold you suggest. So to get that additional use, I would be casting using the single cavity. I wasn't sure if an aluminum mold would carry heat properly to accomplish that. But if possible (looks to be) then I would be able to extend the usefulness of the expensive tester mold and help get more of my money's worth out of it.

If I COULDN'T cast out of a single cavity (or if the folks here who tried it found it very difficult), then it would be harder to justify the cost of the "tester" mold. And alternative solutions be more reasonable, such as the buying of five 1 or 2 cavity molds.

--------

Does that make sense?

[ss40_70]

i dont think youll have much luck getting good consistant bullets out of a 5-6 cavity al mold only using 1 cavity .. useable bullets yes you can . consistant weights and dia .. im not to sure is going to happen .. i suggest getting a 2 cavity mold in the bullet that is your first choice then try it out if you dont like it post it here in our swapping and selling section . it wont take long at all to sell yes youll lose just a couple bucks , but in the long run even if it takes you 2-3 molds to get to your happy place you are going to be money ahead over buying 1, 5 cavity custom .

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you for the alternative input.

I'm curious though if you are willing to followup, you mention concern for consistency using a single cavity, yet williamwaco specifies he does it specifically for consistency.

Have you tried casing 1 of 6 from a lee and testing bullet consistency?

[ku4hx]

I think the problem is not giving all the pertinent details in your original post. Dribbling them out seems to me to be causing a lot of confusion, i.e. "Lee only makes one gas checked 45 cal mold...." That was in a much later post and quite frankly in scrolling down I missed that was a limiting factor in your decision making process.

The bottom line is of course it's your money and your decision.

[Whiterabbit]

People go off topic easy on this forum, if I posted all the ponderous motivations and backgrounds, posts 3 4 and 5 would have gone right back into questioning why I would want a gas checked 45 cal round. Thats assuming anyone would read the post to begin with (I've noticed on bulletin boards most folks stop reading very quickly). Rather, the posters were really informative and answered the question straightaway with helpful insight.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see a problem here. The rest of the conversation is useful because it brainstorms alternative options. I value that too.

[ss40_70]

whiterabbit , i dont have any solid proof to base my thoughts on , i just dont see a consistantly high quality bullet coming out of a 5-6 cavity block only using one cavity , i just dont think you could keep the mold temp consistant enough to do it , not in aluminum anyway , i very well could be wrong , i also dont have enough experiance personly trying this to be any kind of expert , im just basing this on my experiances using 2 cavity aluminum molds and the care you have to take to maintane mold temp .. but i do think you could easily use just the single cavity in a gang mold to get everyday shootin bullets , just not consistant match quality

[onesonek]

Sure it will cast one cavity just fine,,,but.
Personally I don't think the process of elimination aspect of your thought's is the best way to go about finding a boolit however. But that's just me.
It isn't by mistake, that the most often repeated phrase here is,,,"Fit is King"
Get your measurement's of the bore, groove, throat, and then pick the general design you want. Then tell Tom what firearm and chambering it will be used in, along with what alloy you wish to use most. Design is important, but not near as much as fit. Design is more a use factor such as , hunting vs self defense, vs target, and sometimes firearm function, ect.. Some of those can cross over however. But again, fit is the main factor, then its a matter of finding the load combination that brings it all together. Providing the inherit idiosyncrasies of the particular firearm, if any, have been dealt with first, minor design differences shouldn't really be an issue for the most part. If the fit is right! I/we also don't know what you exactly mean by light boolits? Sometimes one can go too light as too heavy. Sometimes we ask, what goes beyond practical, and even the constraints of the general physics of ballistics in a given firearm. We don't know what your goals are in that respect with what firearm?
Again, the process of elimination to your thoughts, just seem a bit unecessary, in my mind. But then it's your money, and I'm good with each to their own.

[MikeS]

That was my take on southpaw's idea as well, slightly different. Rather than sell nonworking designs, I wonder if this forum's members wouldn't want to rent a mold like that. Say, $20 plus paying all shipping costs or something like that, for a few weeks give or take, to cast as much as they wanted, then return the mold to me. No need to get the moldmaker involved, the idea would live or die as a good or bad idea with me.

still thinking about it as a concept.

Well, there are a couple of flaws in your plan as I see it. First off, if you have a mould made up with 5 different boolit designs, they're going to be YOUR take on what's popular. If the mould maker makes the mould(s) they know what they've been selling, which designs are more popular, and which ones are not as popular. Secondly, the idea behind SELLING the mould is that should somebody decide to not return the mould, it wouldn't matter, they've already bought it, so nobody is out anything. With renting it, you're depending on a person's honesty to return the mould, unless you get a deposit in the amount of the purchase price from the person, then refund all but the $20.00 when they return it. If you do this, you're basically doing exactly what I'm saying, but using different semantics.

Overall I do like the idea of a 'sampler' mould, one that's not designed to be used for production, simply for casting some samples of several different designs. And I think a mould works better than just getting sample boolits, because with a mould, you're using the alloy you want to use, cooling them the way you want, etc. Basically the boolits from the sample mould would be identical to ones you would cast from a mould you later buy with the cavities you want to use.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that you're thinking about doing something like this, I just think that it would be better done by the respective mould makers themselves. Another idea would be to make the sample moulds out of both aluminum, and brass, and iron (assuming the mould maker uses all those materials), so not only do you get an idea of what boolits designs you might want, but you can also see first hand the differences between the various mould materials.

[Whiterabbit]

I understand what you are saying. It's why I never buy anything with the intent of selling it later. Because I never buy based on what's popular, I buy what I want for me. Which is almost never popular. My buying any product is a one-way street.

I just have to say though on the honestly thing, and I could be wrong, but ever since I started the firearms hobby I've noticed that the enthusiasts in general are the most straight-shooting honest people I have ever interacted with. I find it refreshing.

[MikeS]

For the most part you're right, most folks, especially shooters are fairly honest. But it only takes one bad apple to ruin it. Just go into the swapping & selling forum here, and read all the deadbeat threads. Another reason it might be better handled by the mould maker, they could take a deposit in the form of a credit card, and only charge it if the mould isn't returned. Unless you have a business, and are setup to take credit cards, in which case you would have that same advantage.

[cajun shooter]

I'm sorry Whiterabbit but first I don't know how long you have been casting but as far as taking a mould of Lee Quality and using one cavity to make a decision is going to be hard. I had to send 5 of them back because of defects with each mould.
What if you decide on one bullet and it gets cutting by Lee with a different cherry? To make Lee part of any test is crazy as they are taking a year to deliver GB to our doors. The idea of taking a mould and sending it out to anyone that has a request is not going to work with some of our current members.
I had some items for sell and several members spoke up and then never followed through with the money.
What if a person gets the trial mould and heats it to 900 degrees and leaves it there? You now have a trial mould with warped blocks.
A bullet that has been cast from one mould will have a different alloy performance than one that falls from a 4 or larger mould. The mould material also matters. There are many factors in your idea that you will need a huge box of chalk. It seems that you are trying to answer all the questions on bullet selection and maybe caliber with the purchase of one mould. That will not help the mould maker nor the sport of casting different bullets for different uses.
That would be along the lines of going into a group of women and picking one to spend all your life with. How is this analogy alike? Takes all the fun of trying the different models.

[Blammer]

yes, when I cast only one cavity out of a 3 or more cavity mould it takes a bunch more heat to keep it casting good.

[ku4hx]

i'm sorry whiterabbit but first i don't know how long you have been casting but as far as taking a mould of lee quality and using one cavity to make a decision is going to be hard. I had to send 5 of them back because of defects with each mould.
What if you decide on one bullet and it gets cutting by lee with a different cherry? To make lee part of any test is crazy as they are taking a year to deliver gb to our doors. The idea of taking a mould and sending it out to anyone that has a request is not going to work with some of our current members.
I had some items for sell and several members spoke up and then never followed through with the money.
What if a person gets the trial mould and heats it to 900 degrees and leaves it there? You now have a trial mould with warped blocks.
A bullet that has been cast from one mould will have a different alloy performance than one that falls from a 4 or larger mould. The mould material also matters. There are many factors in your idea that you will need a huge box of chalk. It seems that you are trying to answer all the questions on bullet selection and maybe caliber with the purchase of one mould. That will not help the mould maker nor the sport of casting different bullets for different uses.
That would be along the lines of going into a group of women and picking one to spend all your life with. How is this analogy alike? Takes all the fun of trying the different models.

+1 ....