Unbelievable casting myths on other boards

[cephas53]

"I want to hear the story about how a bullet that is too small for the barrel is the cause of excessive leading; that should be a good one. Too small = less friction = more leading...yea right."

Have never been a big poster on any board, as my count here shows, but every once in awhile I come out to see if my shadow is there and post. Would of put this in the humor section but sadly the guy is serious and stuck in his opinions. Thanks for all the good info here and suggestions to do this deal right.

If you have some time and care to check this thread out: http://forum.pafoa.org/ammunition-reloading-25/151856-missouri-bullets-hardness-optimized.html

Actually though overall it is a good group, met some very nice members this weekend.
Question, what's the most outrageous casting myth you've seen?

[Bret4207]

The OP in that thread is a knot head, pure and simple. He isn't even able to grasp the simplest of differences in cast and jacketed and the mechanics of loading. What's more,. his anger and ego are blocking any chance he'll listen to reason. I lost the patience to discuss anything with people like that long, long ago.

[Matt_G]

My favorite is the oft repeated myth that you can't shoot lead faster than 1000 f.p.s.
According to these exspurts, if you do it will lead your barrel.

As far as the OP in the thread you linked, that proves that idiots are a dime a dozen.

[wiljen]

Wow what a comedy of errors. Seems to me the only one they missed is that wheel weights will wear out your barrel.

[Trey45]

I couldn't read the whole thing, the guy is an idiot plain and simple. I saw all I needed to see on page one.

[Greg in va]

Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

[Nazgul]

I have heard the one about wheel weights being "dirty" and wearing out your barrel.

How about paper patched bullets wear out the rifling because the paper is too abrasive.

Don

[Rangefinder]

Wow---that's really all I can say. By the first page I wanted to slap the snot out of the OP. I'm so tempted to register just for the purpose of calling him an arrogant moron and calling him out on it--but it would be the shortest-lived membership in that board's history... Some people shouldn't be allowed to have a loaded stapler.

[btroj]

I love the "I have 40 years of experience" so it can't be me!
He has absolutely no clue about shooting cast but I bet he is the range expert on them.
what a maroon.

[Tazman1602]

You can't cure STUPID......

Man I couldn't even read the whole thread. Knothead is being nice.....

[Leadforbrains]

If I read everything correctly the OP claims to have forty years of experience in reloading. If that is so then he has not learned anything in that time, and is incapable of learning any concept that is new to him. The other question is how do you claim that you know that there is a problem and continue to reload all those rounds of ammunition with that same problem? The first few rounds that came out of my machine looking like that would have caused me to stop immediately. I would have checked all my settings before proceeding any further.
He just needs to bulk order jacketed bullets. On second thought he should just sell all his equipment and buy a set of golf clubs.

[imashooter2]

My last post in that thread was #19: "You sir, should educate yourself a bit before you embarrass yourself further."

Unfortunately, he didn't see that advice as worth taking...

[RU shooter]

Yep you sure couldnt seem to get the point across to that guy,I tried I'm "Tim Ault "on that board and replied a couple times and just gave up hope on him. All his excuses such as The lead was too soft, not enough lube,and as you posted How can an undersized bullet lead the barrel ???????I could have cared less about the guy but what burned my butt was how he was trying to ruin the reputation and business of a well known company filing a BBB report and notifying the FTC because he squeezed the **** out of those bullets when he crimped them not once but twice. What a bone head!

I liked the offer for the "loobe grooves" you made to him ! just saw that this AM And I though the OP was gonna shut his pie hole till he got the hardness readings from his"expert"????

As I'm not expert can a accurate hardness reading be taken since he deformed all the bullets from their as cast state when he seated /squeezed and pulled them ?

[Trey45]

I had to go back and read the whole thing, all I saw was him throwing hissy fit after hissy fit. If you don't agree with his wrong ideas on what's happening, YOU are wrong, not him. So far it appears the entire cast boolit world is wrong, and he alone is right. This confirms my original assessment:


... the guy is an idiot plain and simple. I saw all I needed to see on page one.

[Leadforbrains]

He needs to take the Lead out of his handle on that forum. He is giving Lead a bad name.

[clintsfolly]

It should hurt to be that dumb!!! Clint

[imashooter2]

And I though the OP was gonna shut his pie hole till he got the hardness readings from his"expert"????

As I'm not expert can a accurate hardness reading be taken since he deformed all the bullets from their as cast state when he seated /squeezed and pulled them ?

The test will have to file for a flat anyway.

And it doesn't really matter because no matter what the hardness test comes back as, those bullets are obviously play doh and soft as butter. Didn't you see the pictures? :rolleyes:

[JSnover]

He never mentions his casting experience. That's why it's so easy for him to argue: He's not burdened with knowledge or experience. :)
For what it's worth, though, everyone else tried to set him straight.

[357shooter]

It was overall a good thread. Most of the responses could have been from here and were informed, with several links to threads on this site. The fact the OP made no sense, at all, ever, is frustrating. I don't think he ever posted the actual BHN of the bullets either... wonder why.:Fire::Fire::Fire:

[P.K.]

:shock::shock::shock:

I'm speechless. Operator headspace and timing are way off with that cat. Bet it was his first rodeo with cast. 40 years of loading j-words with max charges proly.

[bob208]

i am a member there don't go there much a lot of mall ninjas and experts like him.

[RobS]

Some people's experiences vary................some who just don't get it vary more than others. :roll:

[casterofboolits]

Sheesh! I had to force myself to finish that thread! Ya just want to look him up and smack the back of his head to get his attention! 40 years of loading eperience? Sounds more like 4 days!

Ya can't cure stooopid!

[badgeredd]

After reading the entire thread, it is apparent the OP hasn't a clue nor does he want to admit that he MAY have caused the problem! Case in point...the following is a quote from him:

You belief is incorrect; a factory crimp die has no resemblance at all with a sizing die; particularly in 9 MM. 9 MM is a tapered shell so the sizing die contacts the entire surface of the shell to reshape the taper not jsut a carbide collar; that's why lubing 9's is valuable because without lube there is so much pressure on the brass that it accelerates the creation of the bulge at the base of the shell, the lube minimizes that. A factory crimp die has an adjustable collar that extends a taper crimp and forms the cartridge down further where the bullet base is in the shell. I'd take one apart and photograph one but mine are all set and don't want to have to reset them.

Obviously he is NOT thinking about what has been said to him. I would think that a light might go off in his head that removing the said "bulge" in the case would be in fact swaging the boolit down. It seems to me that this is a classic case of "throwing pears before swine" because he has no interest in learning from others or listening to the well intentioned comments. His mind is set and NOTHING will change it.

Edd

[Blammer]

I'd have to agree with the vendor, tell the OP to take his business elsewhere. He's an idiot.

Unfortunatley there is no helping him, because he doesn't want to be helped.

My favorite myth is the one about not being able to shoot cast in a rifle faster than 1200fps with out leading.

I offered a fellow to let him shoot my 35 whelen with my cast boolits and then check for leading.

The deal was he would have to shoot the WHOLE box of 50 rounds and THEN check. Well 180gr going 2400fps in a 6pound gun gives quite a kick, so I'd be sure the impression left on him would be multifold when the test was done. Still waiting for him to do the shooting part. :)

[mold maker]

There are lots of folks out there that elected a false promise in 2008. Many still think they did the right thing, and will do it again in 2012. It's like not seeing the forrest because the trees are in the way.
This loader simply refuses, to see his mistake, because he wont accept the responsibility, for what he did.

[Blammer]

I wanna know how he got all the leading out of his barrel.

NOBODY TELL HIM THE EASY WAY TO DO IT! :)

[btroj]

He probably bought a new barrel- his was obviously ruined. Maybe The bullet company will get sued for the cost of the barrel?

[Blammer]

I suggest the OP go back to using jacketed bullets.

[Love Life]

I got this.

[williamwaco]

I love the "I have 40 years of experience" so it can't be me!
He has absolutely no clue about shooting cast but I bet he is the range expert on them.
what a maroon.



May I explain that statement?

He has ONE year of experience - 40 times.

[btroj]

Ah yes, the instant expert. My favorite kind.

This is the kind of guy who gives cast a bad name. I have run into his type on occasion, I tend to ignore them. They are best left to marinate in their own stupidity.

[Love Life]

I feel stupider after reading all that. I am now afraid to go cast and reload.

[bearcove]

It doesn't matter if its 4 or 40 years, If you don't fix your mistakes and do things correctly you are still wrong.

I'm still finding things I've been doing wrong or the hard way. Easy is better.

[waksupi]

I would like to thank the members here that have posted on that thread, for not directing him here!

[arkypete]

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal.

Jim

[btroj]

I would like to thank the members here that have posted on that thread, for not directing him here!

I hope nobody is dumb enough to direct him here. The mods will kill the guilty party for the grief it will cause. One guy like him could get half the members here banned!

[montana_charlie]

I would like to thank the members here that have posted on that thread, for not directing him here!
I hear that!
His first thread here would probably result in a dozen of us being banned ...

CM

[Trey45]

If the joker does show up and carries on here like he does there, he won't last long....

[bearcove]

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal.

Jim

Yes, and the stupid often don't know their ignorance. Fatal flaw of knowing it all.:veryconfu

[Love Life]

I almost did in my post, but didn't want people to think all the CastBoolits members were like me!!

[MtGun44]

Sorry, life is too short. I am happy to help those that will listen. If they don't, no skin off
my nose, and I WON'T be bothered getting cranked up of some idiot. The ratio of idiots to
knowledgeable people is very favorable on this site, making it a nice place to be. Not so
much other places, so I don't go there.

Life is too short to spend very much of it on ungrateful fools that are unwilling to learn

Bill

[looseprojectile]

is good.
I liked the statement that he broke his barrel in with 500 rounds of jacketed and then lapped it with three different grits.:veryconfu
I think his reading comprehension is just a little lacking.:coffee:

"Ya ruint your boolits ya jackwagon".
I suspect that he has none of the offending boolits left that are not mucked up to load to proove that they can be shot successfully.

A classic example of how one person can screw it up for everyone.

Life is good

[Echo]

Yes, and the stupid often don't know their ignorance. Fatal flaw of knowing it all.:veryconfu

And the OP displays both ignorance AND stupidity...

[gray wolf]

I read the whole thread first thing today--before anyone even posted here.
How the heck you going to NOT mess up a lead bullet with a collet type puller.
The OP brings new meaning to the word ( ******* )
Much more going on with him than a cast bullet issue.
Best to leave folks like that alone to them selves.
I think I will look up some of his other post if I can, just for a laugh or two.
I wont join to do it--it might be catching.

[Love Life]

So abouot those 40+ years of experience. Are those human years or dog years? Or perhaps gold fish years?

[fatnhappy]

I feel like a rubber necker watching a car wreck in slow motion.
That level of arrogance and condescension never ceases to amaze me.

[Springfield]

If it were me I would have had the bullets tested for hardness BEFORE I spouted off in a public forum. Bet he never posts the results. Not that it matters, I use my same 9 Brinnell hardness lead that I use in my BP guns for most all my handguns, even my 45 acp and 9mm, and never have a problem. The only time I had a bad leading problem is when I bought some very hard bullets, the ones with silver in them. Didn't work for me so I traded them off, didn't get all pissy about it.

[hiram1]

leadhead bullits. makes real good boolits i shoot a lot of them

[L1A1Rocker]

I got this.

Boy didn't you!

Hmm. I highly suggest you do the shooting community a HUGE favor and stop reloading. Your knowledge of the subject is so far off I see you as a major safety issue to any all ranges you may frequent. I am sorry this sounds harsh, and I do not mean to make you angry, but sometimes other people see what you don't. I am more than willing to take some time via PM or phone call to instruct you in the correct and safe ways of reloading using both jacketed and cast bullets.

Oh by the way this is my first post and I want to say hello to everybody. Hello!!

That almost had me rolling out of my chair laughing! That thread over there has the potential to become epic!

I've got over 20 years reloading experience, much of that with cast boolits. I cannot express you you how much I've learned here in the last year I've been a member here. I've not just learned about how to cast, but how to properly size a cast boolit, and how that affects potential leading in a barrel. I'm glad I'm not too arrogent to know when I don't really know something.

[Love Life]

Attitude is everything. Instead of coming out and blasting MBC he could have asked a couple questions. It is obvious from the boolits that it is 90% operator error that is causing his issues with size being maybe the only real issue. Most of the 9mm guns I have shot have needed .357-.358 to stop leading. Then when people tried to help he got uppity, and then totally gave the wrong scoop on factory crimp dies. It's O.K. though because I posted again and pointed him to Veral Smith's and Glenn Fryxell's books which should help him alot. I also told him to read a reloading manual. After all that I am done never to visit the sight again.

I also threw shooting cast out of factory glock barrels into the mix :evil:

I have been to that forum before and as someone posted earlier their is a lot of mall ninja activity there. I have also seen bad scoop on other issues as well. That is why I frequent this sight. Good people, good discussion, and actual experts.

Also I have loyalty to MBC. When I first started casting they are the ones I bought my alloy from to cast my first bullets before I knew about wheel weights and everything else. I called them and talked to them on the phone and they were very nice. They even told me that their alloy may be a bit too hard for 45 acp and 38 special, and pointed me on the route of scrounging. Can't beat that!!

[redneckdan]

Grand daddy always said ya can't fix stooopid.....all you can do is pick up the pieces afterwards....:popcorn:

[montana_charlie]

I'm not going to join that forum just to post in Leadhead's thread, but there IS something I wish I could say to him.

In his post #39, he made two statements:

You belief is incorrect; a factory crimp die has no resemblance at all with a sizing die; ...

...and ...

I do know it [the FCD] helps guard against feed problems as the cartridge is nice and smooth on the outside.

My question would be, "If the FCD is not a sizer, what makes the case exterior so smooth when you use it?"

Oh, well ... such are the vagaries in life.

CM

[redneckdan]

My question would be, "If the FCD is not a sizer, what makes the case exterior so smooth when you use it?"



Tiny midgets with hammers.

[sundog]

Grand daddy always said ya can't fix stooopid.....all you can do is pick up the pieces afterwards....:popcorn:

and occasionally you can head it off before someone gets hurt...

this guy is a true bone head.

[mooman76]

A drunk driver has allot of years of experience too. Doesn't make him a good driver.

[Blammer]

I was going to direct him here, just to watch the fireworks! But I got lazy and didn't want to register over there. :)

[Love Life]

What gets me is that everytime you see a thread like that one and you call out the OP's blatantly obvious lack of reloading ability they get all defensive and say "I have reloaded 10,000,000,000,000,000 rounds just like this and it never happened before!!" We had a poster like that on this board a few months ago asking about his boolits and loaded rounds in the cast boolits section. Even though many members here tried to help and tactully pointed out his reloading procedures were the problem he went full retard and made tha bove claim.

I take reloading very seriously. Not only so I don't ruin a gun or hurt myself, but because I don't want anybody else hurt as well. What if you blow a cylinder and the shrapnel hits a young kid learning how to shoot with his dad? That is terrible. I know if I was injured by somebody elses lax reloading procedure, if I wasn't incapacitated they would have a very bad day. So when people put forth helpful hints to you like others did to the OP then maybe you might want to pay attention instead of claiming "I already 10,000,000,000,000 rounds like this!!" We can all see you are a moron.

OK I am stepping down from my soap box now.

[BruceB]

It is rather amusing....too bad he takes himself soooooo veddy, veddy seriously.

There's a wonderful "Freudian slip" on that Board. Clicking on the gent's "handle" brings-up his profile, which doesn't have much data. However, there's a small, bright-green segmented bar in his profile area. I clicked on that bar out of curiosity, and up popped a notation (this is PRICELESS).

It said, "Leadhead's reputation is BEYOND REPUTE"!!!!!!!!! (My capital letters).

Words fail me, just as they seem to have failed those running that Board. Could they have meant "....beyond reproach"???

[MT Gianni]

I hear that!
His first thread here would probably result in a dozen of us being banned ...

CM

I think we are smarter than that Charlie. There would only be one banned.

[P.K.]

Grand daddy always said ya can't fix stooopid.....all you can do is pick up the pieces afterwards....:popcorn:

That's assuming there is anything usable to recover after the smoke clears.

A tried and true statment comes to mind from one of the finest NCO's I ever served with. "Complacency Kills" and in this case ignorance and pride is the same as complacency. If an individual is so narrow minded that he is unwilling to belive the logic from many sources a Darwin award is likley in the works.

[Leadforbrains]

I just read the last post over there and it looks like the OP is getting a good raking over the coals.

[montana_charlie]

It said, "Leadhead's reputation is BEYOND REPUTE"!!!!!!!!!
I wonder what their definition of repute is ...

[Stick_man]

It should hurt to be that dumb!!! Clint

No, it should be ILLEGAL to be that dumb. That guy is a Darwin Award winner in the making!

Since the thread started only 2 days ago, let's see if he has a bhn posted by the end of the month. He said it would take his neighbor a week to get the results to him. What's he doing, sending the samples out to some lab?

The impression I got from that thread was he was just out to badmouth a good company. Unfortunately for him, his ignorance is getting in the way of any intelligent comment. (perhaps he works for a competitor?)

I think that when the bhn comes back at anything even within the 16-20 range, there should be an outright demand for an open apology to the other members of that forum and especially to Mo Bullets.

[thx997303]

It's funny, I've only been reloading for a few years now.

The reason I'm relatively successful is this.....I'm willing to learn.

I hope to keep that willingness in 40 years.

[jcwit]

Beyond repute with only 140 posts? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOk!

[Trey45]

I feel certain that regardless of what his "friend" tests the BHN out to be, it's going to be listed by the brain donor as low just to save face.

[waksupi]

Beyond repute with only 140 posts? OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOk!

Probably get to post their own reputation levels. Or some one's brother in law.

[L1A1Rocker]

OMG!!! Is it possible he is just "shinning people on"? Check out this latest from him.


I'm still looking for the answer to how with the dies set exactly the same way, another 10,000 or so 9 MM's loaded and fired without one of the problems I am having with these bullets. And please don't insult my by saying anything about seating depth. It seems aggression is still rooted in elementary loading skills that I have mastered but then that's the only ammunition you have other than the poorly cast bullets with substandard lead.

[fatelk]

Ignorance is curable, stupidity is terminal.
I've been ignorant before. I've even snapped at folks trying to set me right, but after more than one or two join in to tell me I'm wrong, I usually step back and rethink to see if I just might be mistaken.

I felt a bit sorry for the guy at first, knowing how foolish he was going to feel. When he started fighting everyone who tried (even quite nicely and with great patience) to help him, I realized what kind of guy he is. I have known people like that. I have relatives like that.

As to casting myths, I have a friend who still refuses to even consider using cast bullets. To him they are all garbage and will always lead your barrel. Seems he and a buddy once bought some no-name bulk lead 9mm slugs 20 years ago and loaded then up. They spent the whole afternoon scraping lead out of their barrels.

Heck, I've got nearly 25 years of reloading experience, even casting for about 20, but there's a whole world I didn't know about lead bullets and all their nuances until I got serious about the subject (and joined this forum). I appreciated the patience of a lot of you guys when I first got here. With all my years of experience, I had no idea just how much I didn't know!

[waksupi]

If you want entertained some time, pick any member at random, and go look at their early posts on the board. Some were downright hilarious!


I've been ignorant before. I've even snapped at folks trying to set me right, but after more than one or two join in to tell me I'm wrong, I usually step back and rethink to see if I just might be mistaken.

I felt a bit sorry for the guy at first, knowing how foolish he was going to feel. When he started fighting everyone who tried (even quite nicely and with great patience) to help him, I realized what kind of guy he is. I have known people like that. I have relatives like that.

As to casting myths, I have a friend who still refuses to even consider using cast bullets. To him they are all garbage and will always lead your barrel. Seems he and a buddy once bought some no-name bulk lead 9mm slugs 20 years ago and loaded then up. They spent the whole afternoon scraping lead out of their barrels.

Heck, I've got nearly 25 years of reloading experience, even casting for about 20, but there's a whole world I didn't know about lead bullets and all their nuances until I got serious about the subject (and joined this forum). I appreciated the patience of a lot of you guys when I first got here. With all my years of experience, I had no idea just how much I didn't know!

[Blammer]

ooo ooo ooo pick me!

I'm sure I have some doozies! :D

Here's one

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=196466&postcount=1

[Love Life]

OOh OOh OOH!! (while jumping up and down) pick me!

Hold on a minute. Is he claiming to have loaded and shot another 10,000 rounds since his initial post? I just checked again and yes he is. Oh my God!!! [smilie=b:[smilie=b:[smilie=b:

Yep you can definately spot them when they show their heads.

How come we can't have cool meters like that forum? Nevermind I don't think mine would be as green as his!

[frankenfab]

ooo ooo ooo pick me!

I'm sure I have some doozies! :D

Here's one

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=196466&postcount=1

[smilie=l:

That is great! We should just continue this thread on that subject. We are giving that dumby way too much time and attention.

[Love Life]

But it is so fun. I had to kindly let him know that obitration is not a word. This knucklehead is a complete noob I'm guessing to both reloading and cast boolits (even store bought ones) which isn't bad, but the complete inability to find fault in his own actions is killing me.

So can we get cool meters like that forum?:bigsmyl2:

[cephas53]

The original intent of my post wasn't to focus on the poster on the other board. However when youns stated posting I thought it may wake him up to some facts. Some of those facts would include reloading safety, cast boolit basics and of course the questionable accusations on the commercial caster. But it's just not gonna happen, and its to the point of being almost sad. Lets move on or at least wait until he makes his final conclusions from the BHN, which probably in his mind, will explain everything.

[Love Life]

The original intent of my post wasn't to focus on the poster on the other board. However when youns stated posting I thought it may wake him up to some facts. Some of those facts would include reloading safety, cast boolit basics and of course the questionable accusations on the commercial caster. But it's just not gonna happen, and its to the point of being almost sad. Lets move on or at least wait until he makes his final conclusions from the BHN, which probably in his mind, will explain everything.

It is so hard to walk away, but you are right. I really hope he gets exasperated and quits reloading.

[shovel80]

I'm Very New too Casting and also shooting BPCR...but, from all the reading I've done...I've see some say that if a bullet is too Small...and doesn't seal the bore....some of the Flame can come around the bullet and cause More Leading...
I don't know for sure how...but, maybe from melting the lead on the sides??

Terry

[Triggerhappy]

It is an entertaining thread to say the least. Too bad his mind is so closed and he's so sure of his "facts". Makes him sound ignorant. I would be very interested in the hardness of their alloy and what the actual bullet size is after loading. I know what he says...

TH

[Triggerhappy]

As Ron White says.... "you can't fix stupid"....

[hoosierlogger]

What a maroon!! Someone should give him a link to this thread.

[Love Life]

Holy smokes. Obviously the term "Obturate" is a word from the Civil War days, and since the term is so old the spell check wont recognize or correct it.

My self and a few others have tried and tried, but it doesn't elp. We have all been labled trols for the MBC. While I may be trolling I am an independent troll.

I really want to send him a link to here. Not to be bashed, but so he can gain the knowledge needed to kep from hurting himself and others. I can't though because if he came here and pushed the same garbage he would leave crying.

[jcwit]

I'll bet the actual truth never ever comes out on this.

[castblast]

Seems odd this guy is praising a company he lives close to. In his profile he says he's from Western,PA. Penn Bullets is about 20 miles NE of Pittsburgh.

This is a post LeadHead made on March 29th.

"Those of you reloading lead ammunition might consider Penn Bullets whose prices I find real good and the bullets even better. I tried Missouri Bullets but got tired of scraping lead out of my barrels, I've literally spent as much as an hour trying to remove lead with their bullets, the leading is horrible. Penn Bullets leaves my barrel just about as clean as shooting jacketed."


I bought bullets from Missouri Bullets (45 ACP) before I started casting and thought they were too hard.

These are just my observations and should in no way reflect on Missouri Bullets or Penn Bullets in any way. I'm sure they are both fine companies.

[alamogunr]

I just finished reading the entire thread over there. I find it hard to believe that he has 40 years experience reloading. His responses are more like a 2 yr old's.

I don't have 40 years experience. Regarding cast boolets, about 50% of what I know I learned here and the other 50% from all the mistakes I made. I suspect that any future knowledge will follow that same trend.

I have one of those Lee 4 die sets for .38 Special. I was lazy and wanted to try out a "new" handgun, a S&W model 65. I cast up a bunch of wadcutters in a H&G mold. Since I didn't want to bother setting up the sizer, I just tumbled them in LLA/JPW and seated them. Naturally, they didn't chamber. I ran them through the FCD. Naturally, they then chambered easily. I could see the size mark on the brass. Luckily about a 100 rounds didn't lead too badly but I did have to clean it out.

I guess I don't have a claim on the supplier since it was my WW alloy and my casting procedure that caused the leading. Not to mention my use of the FCD. I person would have to be super stupid, ignorant, whatever not to know that something got sized when the cartridges would now chamber. The chambers didn't get bigger.

Thanks to all who have contributed to my education. Too bad LeadHead can't take advantage of the same education.

[shooterg]

I read it all . My fun for this evening - there's somebody out there that knows less than me - finally ! Please , nobody direct him here - but invite some of guys in the thread over that ain't already here. I may check back to see if the hardness ever gets posted...

[badgeredd]

I'm Very New too Casting and also shooting BPCR...but, from all the reading I've done...I've see some say that if a bullet is too Small...and doesn't seal the bore....some of the Flame can come around the bullet and cause More Leading...
I don't know for sure how...but, maybe from melting the lead on the sides??

Terry

That's correct Terry, at least that is the theory and it has seemed to prove out in my experience. The worst leading I've had in a barrel was with very hard commercially cast bullets loaded to about 800 fps. The bullets were definitely undersized for my gun. Also these same bullets had a hard lube on them. I'd guess that both things worked together to make a horrendous mess in my gun. You'll see a lot of guys repeat the phrase "FIT is king" for good reason.

Edd

[P.K.]

I read it all . My fun for this evening - there's somebody out there that knows less than me - finally ! Please , nobody direct him here - but invite some of guys in the thread over that ain't already here. I may check back to see if the hardness ever gets posted...

One for sure is here, still reading. I for one NEVER invite unless it's a knoledgable "range rat" or experianced reloader. BP or otherwise. The PTB's (Powers That Be) have enough on their hands( Moded a number of boards) w/o the influx of new members or (If ratings are high enough) psychophants. Never invite w/o a check. If you think a poster on another board deserves an invite, look back a bit and vet him. Please don't just post a link to a slice of heaven. Then PM a mod with paticulars let them make the call.

My .02

[JIMinPHX]

"I want to hear the story about how a bullet that is too small for the barrel is the cause of excessive leading; that should be a good one. Too small = less friction = more leading...yea right."

If you would like to take a stab at opening his eyes a little, you might try asking him a simple question like this one -

If a looser boolit to barrel fit isn't more likely cause leading, then why does my barrel lead in the grooves & not on the lands?

[SciFiJim]

ooo ooo ooo pick me!

I'm sure I have some doozies! :D

Here's one

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=196466&postcount=1


Darrell,
That's funny, I would be too embarrassed to go back and look at mine. Since a lot of us get our gas checks from you, I guess you figured out that whole gas check thingy.

[btroj]

Exactly what I was thinking Jim. Maybe he buys so many checks because he still has difficulty seating them? Takes lots of practice for some?

This guy is making a fool of himself. He know what answer he wants and that is all he is going to listen to. I just wonder why people are so quick to demonstrate how dumb they are?

[waksupi]

[smilie=l:

That is great! We should just continue this thread on that subject. We are giving that dumby way too much time and attention.

I was going to post my first one, but the history doesn't go back that far!

[P.K.]

From the forum:


I'll post the Brinell results when I get them; till then, sit tight and know I'm not even going to waste my time reading the witch hunt, speculation garbage blaming soft bullets on my loading skills.I'm not going to entertain any more witch hunts here; I'll get back to you with the lab report on the actual Brinell of the bullets.

None of you were present when these events happened, therefore none of you know what you're talking about; you're just speculating and beating me up in ignorance. If my successful reloading for the last 40 years, never having this kind of problem isn't cause enough to understand this isn't an issue that resulted from my loading mistake, then nothing will convince you so I'll just let you say what you want understand you don't know what you';re talking about.







You will notice that we are dealing with Einstein himself. Shame on you all.... Hraummmfh!

[Az Rick]

Thanks to cephas53, that was very entertaining. It absolutely wore me out. Nothing like being right the first time, and sticking to it.
I'm a second amendment Guy but "Bonehead"..... I mean Leadhead should not be allowed to own a firearm that shoots anything but factory ammo. Too many mistakes to correct. He's a Troll or an Idiot or both.

Very entertaining,...eagerly awaiting the "lab report".

Best, Rick

[SciFiJim]

I don't care to register there to subscribe to the thread to hear if the results actually get posted. If someone could post the results here I would appreciate it.

[Az Rick]

Oh , and I loved the part where he was going to "mic" the inside of his die, and the shipment of
equipment his friend was getting, that measured anything!

He should go in and have the "softness" of his head measured!

What a Hoot!!

[Lively Boy]

well I just read the thread in the other forum.....I got to page 5 and started to wonder why nobody was backing him in his um "issue". so i called my wife into the room and showed her the pics...those are to squished....was her reply. she only knows the basics but picked that up right away. hmmmmm. oh well i'll stick with cast boolits and the sound advice here and move on. learn something new every day and you will be richer for it. Lively Boy

[Bret4207]

I'm Very New too Casting and also shooting BPCR...but, from all the reading I've done...I've see some say that if a bullet is too Small...and doesn't seal the bore....some of the Flame can come around the bullet and cause More Leading...
I don't know for sure how...but, maybe from melting the lead on the sides??

Terry

There isn't time for the heat transfer to actually melt the lead, even at 600 fps there isn't time. Basically what you are dealing with is pressure. The pressure can get past the seal of the base against the barrel and it errodes the lead, like spraying a hose along a mud bank, the pressure carries the lead alloy away as spray which get's deposited on your barrel as it slows, just as the mud flies all over and lands everywhere. It's pretty simple if you think about it like it's hydraulics- leave a hole and the fluid (pressure) will run along that escape path even though the piston (boolit) is moving. As it move it tears (errodes) the seals more and more. Works pretty much like that. So the more space there is for the gasses to run up the side of the boolit, the more damage to the boolit and the more potential for leading. An undersize boolit does not make leading certain, but the harder you push the more likely it becomes. As with any piston, proper fit results in a better, more efficient end product.

[Bret4207]

That guys mind is made up. There is no other alternative. We've seen that here on numerous occasions with various members (me included) making a rather obvious spectacle of their ignorance. In all but a very, very few cases our guys have had the light come on and almost unanimously apologized or recognized their blunder and were quickly forgiven and forgotten. I wonder if that fellow will ever realize he's compounding error after error after error? I kinda doubt it.

[9.3X62AL]

It is rather amusing....too bad he takes himself soooooo veddy, veddy seriously.

There's a wonderful "Freudian slip" on that Board. Clicking on the gent's "handle" brings-up his profile, which doesn't have much data. However, there's a small, bright-green segmented bar in his profile area. I clicked on that bar out of curiosity, and up popped a notation (this is PRICELESS).

It said, "Leadhead's reputation is BEYOND REPUTE"!!!!!!!!! (My capital letters).

Words fail me, just as they seem to have failed those running that Board. Could they have meant "....beyond reproach"???

Priceless indeed.

[9.3X62AL]

We have all been labled trols for the MBC. While I may be trolling I am an independent troll.

That was very honorable of you to set the record straight regarding your troll status. The guy is just.......helpless.

[imashooter2]

That guys mind is made up. There is no other alternative. We've seen that here on numerous occasions with various members (me included) making a rather obvious spectacle of their ignorance. In all but a very, very few cases our guys have had the light come on and almost unanimously apologized or recognized their blunder and were quickly forgiven and forgotten. I wonder if that fellow will ever realize he's compounding error after error after error? I kinda doubt it.

He's far too emotionally invested in being right. No matter what the actual BHN comes back he will post it as low to support his position that it is the bullets and not his technique that drove the issues.

After all, didn't you look at the pictures? The bullets are obviously soft as Play Doh. :roll:

[Love Life]

That was very honorable of you to set the record straight regarding your troll status. The guy is just.......helpless.

I try to be honest:)

I think he is now calling me Levi. Not sure how you get that from Love Life. This guy is special. Maybe he has the name leadhead because he is so dense. Now the real question is:

Do we get one of those cool reputation meters?:mrgreen:

[waksupi]

He's far too emotionally invested in being right. No matter what the actual BHN comes back he will post it as low to support his position that it is the bullets and not his technique that drove the issues.

After all, didn't you look at the pictures? The bullets are obviously soft as Play Doh. :roll:

He will probably post a Brinnell of 3 to prove his point.

[9.3X62AL]

He will probably post a Brinnell of 3 to prove his point.

Could that be any worse than being our site's in-house loob gruve dealer? How d--n much longer will those Loverins be on back-order, anyway? I ordered them in March, and today's missions include picking up candy for the evil little trick or treaters. Yer customer
service points could take a real hit.

[Sonnypie]

Guess I missed it. [smilie=1:

But then... I oft times choose my battles. :D

Time to go move the big C-frame press. :wink:

[Love Life]

Do you think we should post a warning on here that Lee FCD will suck the hardness out of your lead? I think that is vital information everybody should be made aware of.

[oneokie]

Do you think we should post a warning on here that Lee FCD will suck the hardness out of your lead? I think that is vital information everybody should be made aware of.

No. But you could post that statement on the thread in question.:groner:

However, do not post that lead work softens. Let him figure that out on his own.

[dskjeie]

wow just finished reading the hole thing. all I can say is wow.
I my self have only started the reloading endevour, and can tell this guy is a "leadhead"

looks like you got banned from that fourm Love Life.

[ss40_70]

oh that was some dang good reading ... it sure is nice to know im not the dumbest person on this earth

[Love Life]

It happens.

Things like that rub me the wrong way. He was wrong. He has been proven to be wrong, yet he continues to slam a company's product when he is in fact the weak link. He is also dishonest. He has not been reloading for 40+ years. Missouri did not sell defective bullets, but his parents birthed a defective child.

the scariest part is that he will probably continue to reload. Hopefully he will never have an accident, but what if he does.

Last , but not least, people need to be taken to task for their actions and what they say. I have been taken to task quite a few times on this forum, but the difference is I learned from it and apologized to all offended members. This wacko claims all the other posters are wrong, the bullet manufacturer are wrong, etc.

[JSnover]

No one learns anything until they're ready to. Hold off on sharing a CastBoolits link with him until he's ready to listen. Don't hold your breath...

[wgr]

Do you think we should post a warning on here that Lee FCD will suck the hardness out of your lead? I think that is vital information everybody should be made aware of.

yes but if you do it right the same die can be used to harden the pistol bullets used in rifles:veryconfu

[Ugluk]

I tried the Lee FCD as a last station crimp die instead of using the bullet seating/crimp die to crimp.
Guess what?

It has an internal shoulder that pushed the boolit further into the already crimped case, ploughing lead.

His MB-boolits may still be softer than advertised though. No way of knowing.

Perhaps this thread should be linked over there, or he will maintain that he is the victim of Missouri trolls. When it is in fact the Cast Boolit Mob with torches, pitchforks and chants of "Fit!fit!fit!"..
:-D

[Trey45]

Please do NOT link this thread to the other forum! The staff has enough headaches to worry about without intentionally importing a jackwagon from another forum here to argue that he's right and the entire cast bullet shooting and loading world is wrong.

[Love Life]

Please do NOT link this thread to the other forum! The staff has enough headaches to worry about without intentionally importing a jackwagon from another forum here to argue that he's right and the entire cast bullet shooting and loading world is wrong.

Plus I don't want to get banned from here.

[jcwit]

Good Point! Levi

[Roundnoser]

Guys,

That dude (LeadHead), is never going to change his mind. At this point, its all about his pride. I'll bet you $10 that he's been trying some of the advice he has been given, but won't admit that he has.

Even if he realizes that he is wrong, I don't think his pride would allow him to admit it. Although, I think he should cut Missouri Bullets a break. I've used their bullets before and had no problems with them.

whats the saying.."Pride comes before the fall" ???

[Trey45]

I've got 2-500 piece boxes of Missouri bullets for 45 Colt that I'm saving for a rainy day. I already shot 2 boxes of them without a single issue. 255gr SWC handful of happiness every shot.

[Stick_man]

There isn't time for the heat transfer to actually melt the lead, even at 600 fps there isn't time. Basically what you are dealing with is pressure. The pressure can get past the seal of the base against the barrel and it errodes the lead, like spraying a hose along a mud bank, the pressure carries the lead alloy away as spray which get's deposited on your barrel as it slows, just as the mud flies all over and lands everywhere. It's pretty simple if you think about it like it's hydraulics- leave a hole and the fluid (pressure) will run along that escape path even though the piston (boolit) is moving. As it move it tears (errodes) the seals more and more. Works pretty much like that. So the more space there is for the gasses to run up the side of the boolit, the more damage to the boolit and the more potential for leading. An undersize boolit does not make leading certain, but the harder you push the more likely it becomes. As with any piston, proper fit results in a better, more efficient end product.


Great explanation! One of the best I have heard on the subject.

Thanks!

[waksupi]

Could that be any worse than being our site's in-house loob gruve dealer? How d--n much longer will those Loverins be on back-order, anyway? I ordered them in March, and today's missions include picking up candy for the evil little trick or treaters. Yer customer
service points could take a real hit.

WHAT customer service?

I have renewed my back order status, for another ten year period. Order now!

[Recluse]

I'm definitely tipping my hat to the patient and reasonable/knowledgeable members of that board.

The OP is the classic example of a guy who walks into his reloading area, fills up the primer tube or tray, fills up the hopper with one kind of powder, then sits down and pulls the handle for several hours.

These are the people quickest to jump up and down and boast about having "reloaded for forty years!"

And that's the difference between a handloader and a reloader.

Even so, the vast majority of reloaders will listen to other reloaders when something isn't working right.

:coffee:

[Harter66]

Well ya forced my hand I had to read all 10 pages . He did post. 356 as a base dimension.

Love Life you have been banned over there. 1 Richard to another could have been that signature. If it makes you feel better I've been flamed for the FDC tool thing too.

Defiantly not the sharpest tool in the shed, of course if ya use the back side of a maul you can draw some attention.

I was told on another forum that "the castboolit folks swear by the FDC, in fact some say it is the best tool to get results with", I'm pretty sure it was identity theft on the handle.

I got it he's a politician, that explains everything!

[cbrick]

the scariest part is that he will probably continue to reload. Hopefully he will never have an accident, but what if he does.

Very much to the second point that I made on that site. I signed up to post and make that very point.


I'm definitely tipping my hat to the patient and reasonable/knowledgeable members of that board.

That was the first point I made in my post over there.

See post 78 here. Missouri Bullets "Hardness Optimized" (http://forum.pafoa.org/ammunition-reloading-25/151856-missouri-bullets-hardness-optimized-page-8.html)

Rick

[Harter66]

BravoKilo was banned too, his meter was pegged after just 4 posts.

[Love Life]

Maybe it was my signature, but I'm going with the inflammatory remarks. I didn't know I got banned. All it says is I have been issued an infraction. So does that mean I have to do push ups now?

I tried. We all tried, but obviously none of us are speaking common sense to the feller per his response. Maybe I should have used Civil War era words like he did. The guy is a doofus, and needed to be told so.

[RU shooter]

Well atleast the meat head got his "15 minutes of fame" That is the longest thread I ever remember since I've been a member on that forum. I hope the guys from Missouri bullets are having a good chuckle over this! I hope they send us all a 18 bhn loobe groove as a small token of appreciation for doing their bidding as trolls.

Tim

[Harter66]

Naw couldn't have been the remarks, some of the lifers, hi post count people, were just as direct. Could of been the go ahead, ban me,see if I care remark.

Just no helping some of them.

[P.K.]

Very much to the second point that I made on that site. I signed up to post and make that very point.



That was the first point I made in my post over there.

See post 78 here. Missouri Bullets "Hardness Optimized" (http://forum.pafoa.org/ammunition-reloading-25/151856-missouri-bullets-hardness-optimized-page-8.html)

Rick

Aww he(( you didn't name this site did you?:holysheep

[wgr]

i use the lfc die on rifle rounds with no problems. i did hear that some guys were sending the pistol dies back and having them opened up some because they were sizing the case and bullet down. now how much to have them open the die up would be a thing for each loader to figure out

[Love Life]

I am only banned until tomorrow, but I am done with it. There is no helping the guy, and I really hate being banned by a werewolf. If I continue on it will only get worse. I don't want one of them one day to come here for an honest question and say "Gee. Isn't that the ***** who posted on PAFOA? I better get out of here!"

[crawfobj]

You guys have far more patience than I do, but I have to admit that thread does make for an entertaining read.

I'm a noob at this too, and I learn more from the guys on this board than just about anywhere else, including reading stuff at LASC and all the reloading and casting books I've read cover to cover - most several times.

Keep up the good work here. Thanks for sharing what you've learned from your mistakes so the rest of us don't have to!

[bravokilo]

BravoKilo was banned too, his meter was pegged after just 4 posts.

But hey, I did at least have some rep points! I got banned for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeadHead View Post
"Yea right, you and the others who magically showed up here are trolls from Missouri Bullets....sure, you're an independent testing source. You can tell by your writing style you're all plants from Missouri Bullets and none of you are talking anything to do with commonsense and came right out of the chute slamming me. All you guys who showed up in the last page or so or MB trolls. Right Levi?"


Yeah, right. If that is the case, how do you explain all of the long time members and posters who are saying the same thing? Deep cover moles??

Have you noticed any shady looking characters hanging around lately when you leave the house? Maybe wearing trench coats? Things can sometimes get ugly when dealing with corporations, you know. And remember, THEY DO KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!!.

BK

I was just trying to see how deep his paranoid delusions went. [smilie=1: :roll: :mrgreen:

BK

[JSnover]

Boolit hardness... LoobGroove hardness.... BINGO! I tried to heat my grooves with a torch, right in the box so I could dump them into a quench tank. But they turned into smoke. And I'm pretty sure I voided the warranty. Live and learn...

[Bret4207]

Great explanation! One of the best I have heard on the subject.

Thanks!

Garsh! (scuffing my toe in the dirt and blushing furiously:oops:!) Thanks fer the complermint!:bigsmyl2:

[stealthshooter]

Dang! I have yet to load any cast boolits but I could of told that guy what he was doing wrong. Someone should take his reloading license away before he hurts an innocent bystander!

[southpaw]

Seems I remember some one here saying: having 40 years experience in something doesn't make you an expert, it makes you old.

It is unbelieveable that he would not even listen to any of the suggestions that were made. It is sad to say but they are out there.

Good thing is he is on the other side of the state from me and I don't have to go to a public range to shoot.

I should add that he was right, it was the boolit... sorta it was the only thing that he changed he just didn't adjust for it.

Jerry Jr.

[Recluse]

Well, I went over there and signed up.

Seems like a helluva nice group of folks and western PA is often a lunch and fuel stop when we're flying back and forth to Maine. Might meet some new folks along the way.

Said my piece.

:coffee:

[Mk42gunner]

I read the entire 9 1/2 pages and had a very long reply typed up, when I decided not to post it. I think I would have been restating everyone here's opinion.

I must say that was the first forum thread of that length that I have seen, no matter what website, where NOBODY agreed with the OP.

Does the phrase "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts" come to mind?????

Robert

[btroj]

Too bad there isn't a way to thump someone on the forehead. He sure deserves it.

[Blammer]

recluse, that was a really good post!

everyone should just skip right to page 10 read recluses post and then forgetabout the idiot OP. :)

I also thought it was funny that only NEW posters got banned, old posters with more "street cred'' got to say what they wanted with no "infractions". Just because you're new to some place don't mean you're "new" to the skills.

[bigenate20guage]

guys im mostly a learker here. i have learned more then i ever thought i would, i have only been casting for abought a year and a half. even i knew what his prob was halfway through his post. hay you guys are great to.

[btroj]

Recluse, that was an excellent post. Calm and too the point. Nobody can say you were offensive or nasty.


I wonder if the OP there is aware of the fact that many jacketed bullets get deformed but collet type bullets. Pliers will certainly deform even a jacketed bullet. Maybe the jackets are too soft?

[jcwit]

I also thought it was funny that only NEW posters got banned, old posters with more "street cred'' got to say what they wanted with no "infractions". Just because you're new to some place don't mean you're "new" to the skills.


Not really unusual, I got banned from a shaving forum as a nuw poster simply becaused I had good results lathering with an inexpensive brush. Oh well, I've lived thru it.

[redneckdan]

Banned from a shaving forum? Is that like failing 'coloring 101' in kindergarten? :kidding:

[220swiftfn]

I feel certain that regardless of what his "friend" tests the BHN out to be, it's going to be listed by the brain donor as low just to save face.

I'm kinda hoping that he publicly posts the Brinell at 2.......:veryconfu


Dan

[220swiftfn]

He will probably post a Brinnell of 3 to prove his point.


That's what I get for replying as I go..... (that and only being on once a day.....:violin:)


Dan

[220swiftfn]

Do you think we should post a warning on here that Lee FCD will suck the hardness out of your lead? I think that is vital information everybody should be made aware of.

Nah, people would probably think it was p0rn or something.......


Dan

[The Virginian]

Not sure I am 100% on topic, but the best myth I have heard is you can't use handloads for self defense, let alone cast bullets you cobbled up on your dirty and unsanitary loading bench. FACT: Many custom so called self defense ammo companies are small scale and use identical loading equipment and components we all use. FACT: No one has ever been prosecuted because they used handloads or has that ever been a deciding factor in any self defense shooting case.....never mind that Mas Ayoob thinks you might have a problem with some slick lawyer. FACT: It just hasn't happend.

[220swiftfn]

What I'm surprised at is that no-one asked him where the extra lead was coming from if the bullet measured the same before and after the FCD.... But he'd just fight that one too, it couldn't possibly be that he didn't bell enough, seated and crimped in one shot, pushed them deeper after crimping, and ran them thru a die designed for jacketed bullets.....[smilie=s:

The dude's stoopid is showing, that's for sure.......

Dan

[castblast]

I was really enjoying this thread untill somebody (Cbrick) ratted us out. I don't think Leadhead is going to post to that thread anymore. Cbrick posted 10 hours ago and Leadheads last activity was 9 hours ago (at the time of this post). If he's on this forum now, he'll be busy for a while. I've been scouring every corner of this forum nightly for almost 3 years (yeah I lurked for quite a while). I learn something every time. Not so much brain overload anymore, but, there's still a wealth of knowledge to suck out of this forum. Simillar to sucking the hardness out of lead!

I start to feel sorry for this guy, then re-read his fist 15 or so posts, then think he got everything he deserved. I've seen some of the Missouri Bullet Trolls have started posting on other threads there. It is good to see the senior members from here making nice and sharing knowlede with the good folks of PA. Although, I think if you guys keep it up your going to steal a few of their members!

So, thanks Cbrick, for ruining my entertainment for the night![smilie=l:

[cbrick]

Interesting post castblast, so you feel that folks on this forum should be ashamed, that we should hide and not expose ourselves or let other forums know of us?

Stange indeed.

Rick

[Stick_man]

Rick, don't sweat it. I think there were enough other references to this site that anybody with any intelligence that wanted to find it could. I do not see your post as "ratting us out". After reading all the pages (to date) in that thread, I don't think any of the members from here have anything to be ashamed of or to even want to take back. I see a lot (A LOT) of attempts to help somebody that is not willing to admit he could possibly be at fault.

In a way, I kind of hope the OP does decide to check this site out. There is a wealth of knowledge here that simply is not available anywhere else. Spending some time here could save him, and other shooters near him, from unnecessary harm or even save his life. If he becomes a member here, and truly wants to learn, I think it could be a very good thing. If he becomes a troll here, I am confident the mods will quickly take care of the issue.

[Love Life]

I have gotten good info from that forum before, but just never signed up. Once my ban is up I may browse through some of their other threads and topics. Maybe I can get my street credit back up.

Maybe he will come on over to this forum and get educated. The amount and diversity of knowledge on this forum is unbelievable.

[cephas53]

Not sure I am 100% on topic, but the best myth I have heard is you can't use handloads for self defense, let alone cast bullets you cobbled up on your dirty and unsanitary loading bench. FACT: Many custom so called self defense ammo companies are small scale and use identical loading equipment and components we all use. FACT: No one has ever been prosecuted because they used handloads or has that ever been a deciding factor in any self defense shooting case.....never mind that Mas Ayoob thinks you might have a problem with some slick lawyer. FACT: It just hasn't happend.

Actually you're on topic, but the deal took on a life of its own. When the mod noted he was going to check the new posters out I pm'd him and explained my post here. Do hope there is some kinda conclusion to it. There are some very knowledgable people there, some who have, and others who have not participated in this go round. However from my short time there I believe they must of felt like voices in the wilderness at times. All youns input appreciated.

[badgeredd]

Well I couldn't ignore this thread and of course had to go back to the OTHER thread for more reading.

I am proud to be among you guys! You showed what this site is about and clearly stated items that should help anyone there that is learning the craft. I seriously doubt the OP will take any heed to your comments but others will. I wish that I was only half as eloquent as many of you are. My hat is off to my fellow Castboolit members.

Edd

[Johnk454]

I also thought it was funny that only NEW posters got banned, old posters with more "street cred'' got to say what they wanted with no "infractions". Just because you're new to some place don't mean you're "new" to the skills.

Happens almost everywhere. Usually the new guys are semi-ignored until one of the Senior Members on the site decides he's ok.

Can't blame folks too much; until the internet I had no idea common stupidity and willful ignorance were in such abumdant supply. Think about that the next time you are zooming along at 70+mph in six lanes of rush hour traffic... :shock:

[badgeredd]

[QUOTE=Bret4207;1440079]There isn't time for the heat transfer to actually melt the lead, even at 600 fps there isn't time. Basically what you are dealing with is pressure. The pressure can get past the seal of the base against the barrel and it errodes the lead, like spraying a hose along a mud bank, the pressure carries the lead alloy away as spray which get's deposited on your barrel as it slows, just as the mud flies all over and lands everywhere. It's pretty simple if you think about it like it's hydraulics- leave a hole and the fluid (pressure) will run along that escape path even though the piston (boolit) is moving. As it move it tears (errodes) the seals more and more. Works pretty much like that. So the more space there is for the gasses to run up the side of the boolit, the more damage to the boolit and the more potential for leading. An undersize boolit does not make leading certain, but the harder you push the more likely it becomes. As with any piston, proper fit results in a better, more efficient end product.[/QUOTE

Thanks Bret for explaining it much better than I did. Since I shoot rifles far more than handguns, I kinda forgot to mention the rest of the story. My bad. :veryconfu It is things like this that add to my enjoyment of this site.

Edd

[castblast]

I was really enjoying this thread untill somebody (Cbrick) ratted us out. I don't think Leadhead is going to post to that thread anymore. Cbrick posted 10 hours ago and Leadheads last activity was 9 hours ago (at the time of this post). If he's on this forum now, he'll be busy for a while. I've been scouring every corner of this forum nightly for almost 3 years (yeah I lurked for quite a while). I learn something every time. Not so much brain overload anymore, but, there's still a wealth of knowledge to suck out of this forum. Simillar to sucking the hardness out of lead!

I start to feel sorry for this guy, then re-read his fist 15 or so posts, then think he got everything he deserved. I've seen some of the Missouri Bullet Trolls have started posting on other threads there. It is good to see the senior members from here making nice and sharing knowlede with the good folks of PA. Although, I think if you guys keep it up your going to steal a few of their members!

So, thanks Cbrick, for ruining my entertainment for the night![smilie=l:

Cbrick,

I meant no offence in my post. It was me feeble attempt at humor. I even put a smiley face LOL at the end. First time I used one one of those things. By all means you did the right thing "ratting us out". I apologise if my post was taken the wrong way.

[atom73]

cbrick, your post #152 makes you sound like a flasher ;) It's good entertainment... I have always had good experience here and here I will stay. This forum has been very welcoming and has always seemed like folks tried to have an open mind. I dont know if this guy is a Penn plant or if he is genuinely having some real loading problems, but it sure is a good lesson in humility, almost as good as sunday school. If this is a real post and not a marketing gig to slam another CB company it is spooky that folks get so stubborn they wont listen to help. I just have to remind myself, 'dont get that way', it can really eat away at your life to be so proud, ruins relationships with kids, spouses (guess same sex partners too). Apart from the technical lesson/review I got from this post, the real lesson was 'Pride'.

[RU shooter]

Well, I went over there and signed up.

Seems like a helluva nice group of folks and western PA is often a lunch and fuel stop when we're flying back and forth to Maine. Might meet some new folks along the way.

Said my piece.

:coffee:
What airport do you normally have your stop over at?

[Recluse]

What airport do you normally have your stop over at?

Grove City in good (VFR) weather or Franklin in bad (IFR) weather. Both are small airports with decent fuel prices and super nice folks.

I like western PA. Great country and amazingly enough, I like Pittsburgh as a city--it has REALLY cleaned up since the 70's. And even though Terry Bradshaw & Company put a hurting on my Cowboys in several Super Bowls, I've always thought the Pittsburgh Steelers (along with Green Bay) epitomized what professional football was all about.

Used to do a lot of focus group research in Pittsburgh and always enjoyed my time there. Wasn't able to get back for the NRA Annual Meeting this past year, and that really bugged me.

The only bad memory I have of western PA was when I was a lawman and (stupidly) dated some dispatcher who was originally from Erie. She was a head case.

:coffee:

:coffee:

[runfiverun]

i discussed the op's "original thread" with the originator of this one on another forum.
pointed out at least three things he done wrong, just in the loading of his store boughts.
i never even got around to discussing size, slugging, or even a general first day clue as to boolit fit.
i did suggest he cast his own since he already knew much more than those that do.

[cephas53]

i discussed the op's "original thread" WITH THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS ONE ON ANOTHER FORUM.
pointed out at least three things he done wrong, just in the loading of his store boughts.
i never even got around to discussing size, slugging, or even a general first day clue as to boolit fit.
i did suggest he cast his own since he already knew much more than those that do.

To be clear that wasn't me….?

[runfiverun]

no. definately was not you.
i was attempting to clarify between the two, op here and the op elsewhere original [whatever].
but it was not you.

[MT Gianni]

I don't feel the need to register and post but wonder what he would think about some jacketed bullets that showed pull down marks. He seem to me to be Doctorate level stubborn and stupid.

[3006guns]

I got curious about this thread's title and clicked on the attached thread out of curiosity.

I couldn't believe what I read. In fact, I managed to make it to page five before I vomited. This guy is so stuck on Brinnel hardness, he's convinced that's the problem DESPITE others advising him. Then he starts whining about everyone "picking on him". For someone with "40 years of experience" he sounds like a pig headed fool with a kid's temper.

There are others on that board who obviously have casting/reloading knowledge that are light years ahead of him......and he simply insults them. To cap it all off, he's going to have some unknown "buddy" run a hardness test. In his mind his "buddy" is some kind of all knowing God because he works on government contracts. Really? Does he cast lead for the government?

Yeah......."pig headed" describes this individual very well, indeed.

[Trey45]

The OP of the other thread has been mysteriously quiet as of late, I can't help but wonder if he's maybe choking on crow.

[Roundnoser]

I have really enjoyed both this, and the PAFOA thread! Any one notice that BOTH threads are 9 + pages and counting!? That LEADHEAD guy is like a wounded fish in a pool of Piranha! LEADHEAD is "bleeding" Arrogance, and scapegoating. We have tried to set him straight, but his pride and lack of humility (as atom73 so aptly mentioned), has aggrivated many of us.

Aside from dragging Missouri Bullets into this, which is unfair to MB, Mr. LEADHEAD deserves to wallow is his 40 years of self-aggrandizing reloading expereince. May his bullets always be soft and his barrel leaded! Too bad...So sad.

[theperfessor]

Well, best hope is that the OP on the other thread has actually taken the time to read some of the information and references that the other posters have provided. Even so, I don't think you'll ever see a posted admission coming from him that the bullet hardness is not the primary problem with his reloads.

Some people just don't get it.

[jcwit]

Google the OP's screen name and this is one of the hits.

This may be a ture description

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lead%20Head

[Harter66]

Jc,

All definitions fit like a glove!

Its up to 11 pages now.

Lead head has said all sorts of things that make me think he's talking to the mirror. I am beging to wonder if he hasn't been the manufacturers troll all along. There was an Arkie govenor quoted as saying "It don't matter what they say 'bout you, as long as they're talking". It work here too.

[P.K.]

Jc,

All definitions fit like a glove!

Its up to 11 pages now.

Lead head has said all sorts of things that make me think he's talking to the mirror. I am beging to wonder if he hasn't been the manufacturers troll all along. There was an Arkie govenor quoted as saying "It don't matter what they say 'bout you, as long as they're talking". It work here too.

Wasn't that Huey Long? Not that it matters, your right.

[Harter66]

Yes, Huey Long, and Loousy-anna,he was a governor wasn't he?

[ss40_70]

recluse , i wouldnt stop over in grove city to long when your wife is with you , she may find the outlet mall nearby and spend the day shopping

[P.K.]

Yes, Huey Long, and Loousy-anna,he was a governor wasn't he?

Yup, his picture is in the dictionary next to corruption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long

He was as bad as todays current crop, same song diffrent generation.

[Recluse]

recluse , i wouldnt stop over in grove city to long when your wife is with you , she may find the outlet mall nearby and spend the day shopping

Me >> :shock:

Her >> [smilie=w:

Me seeing the final bill >> :holysheep

Thanks for the heads up!

:coffee:

[L1A1Rocker]

I'm a little curious about something. The mod over there said that he was going to look into the allegation that MB was trolling their thread. I know someone here PMed him the link to this thread. Why has the mod not made a statement here or, especilly, over there, that MB was NOT trolling over there and that the reason for all the new people posting was because the OPs statements spread like wildfire on the interwebs? You could say that he got "Zumboed".

[Lycanthrope]

I'm a little curious about something. The mod over there said that he was going to look into the allegation that MB was trolling their thread. I know someone here PMed him the link to this thread. Why has the mod not made a statement here or, especilly, over there, that MB was NOT trolling over there and that the reason for all the new people posting was because the OPs statements spread like wildfire on the interwebs? You could say that he got "Zumboed".

Well, typically, I don't try to police other forums. I was given the link by one of your members in a PM and decided not to read it as to avoid getting a bias. It's my job to enforce the rules and not necessarily take a side....its good moderation. (It's hard to moderate well when when you are heavily invested in a topic or have outside information) Also, I thought it would be bad form to hotlink back to here. It just encourages trolling and I figured we could just snuff this fire on our side. I decided to check in here after locked the thread this afternoon.

My statement was not toward MB at all....it was to all new members. I suspected the OP and others may have had multiple accounts (against the rules). I crossed a bunch of IP addresses and found some suspicious masking, but nothing I could pin for certain so I let it ride. It's a common problem on our forum due to the mix of politics and firearms.

FWIW, I've loaded well over 100K rounds and I think the OP probably made a mistake in his process.....but, on rare occasion, something else may be the cause and it's worth bearing out in a thread. In this case, the OP didn't take up any of the offers to test the bullets (including my own) and I think that says something about his ability to prove his claim.

Best regards,

Lycanthrope/Jeff

[Bret4207]

FWIW Jeff, I think you did okay. We all have our problem children to contend with.

[fatnhappy]

Jeff,

By all means stick around and join us.

[Harter66]

+1 !!

Stay around a while. There's some thing in here for everyone.

[southpaw]

Jeff,

Welcome aboard!

On the plus side I was unaware that there was a site just for gun owners in Pa. I am a gun owner AND I live in Pa! When I get some spare time I think I will be pokeing around there more.

Jerry Jr.

[Matt_G]

Welcome to the forum Jeff.
Hope you stick around.

[theperfessor]

Jeff, welcome! Ken (45Nut) and the mods run a great site here. Given the name, I guess you can understand why the members here would be very interested in cast bullet related topics and information posted on other sites, especially when that info is totally wrong and bogus.

I've learned so much here I can't even begin to catalog it.

[P.K.]

Jeff, welcome! Ken (45Nut) and the mods run a great site here. Given the name, I guess you can understand why the members here would be very interested in cast bullet related topics and information posted on other sites, especially when that info is totally wrong and bogus.

I've learned so much here I can't even begin to catalog it.

+1 and 2!

Welcome Jeff AKA human with hair problems. You will gather so much info in one afternoon you'll be popin' advil to get rid of the headache. I had no intrest in older calibers until my Da lassoed me over here. Not only that I thought he was "old school" for casting for his .357 and .32WSP. Guess what, Da was all sorts of right! Casting .40 S&W, 45ACP and soon, .30-30 and 06. Not to mention 45-70, heart set on a "Guide Gun!"

[P.K.]

Anybody here that registered over there, comment to him he's welcome at any time. It's unfortunate that this happened but there may be castor's there that were unaware of this site.

[PatMarlin]

Pretty entertaining thread. The OP is pretty scary.

I kinda know how he feels in reverse. I logged on to a new forum a while back to offer some posters help with their questions regarding DC charging I use for my off grid systems.

The senior members at that forum proceeded to blast me for 8 or 9 pages on how I couldn't possibly be doing what I posted, and that the subject was 5 times over my head. They were suckin' my energy like cyber vampires. I just had to get out of there... :mrgreen:

[Bret4207]

Had a similar experience at a Krag collectors forum Pat, and at a small engine repair site and at a saddle site and a lot of other sites. On most sites if you aren't a "regular" you're dog meat. That's pretty darn sad IMO.

[PatMarlin]

It is sad Bret because it's all about learning. The internet... in my view anyway.

The know it all guys, knowing at all costs, like the gentleman at the root subject of the thread here leave themselves no where to go. Spends his whole life- 40 years not learning much of a damn thing because he's already an expert.

That's got to be an uncomfortable position to be in.

[PatMarlin]

I left that forum with this note below and have not been back. Just don't have the time or energy to deal with "Experts". It may or may not be relevant to the subject of this thread:

"There it is. I came here to share my experiences, and to see if I could perfect my DC Systems, with something better as well.

Instead of saying, "you can't possibly be doing that", why not say, "If he is, how is he doing it? How is that possible?"

Instead of saying, "What you're doing is wrong! Based on all of my knowledge", why not say, "well if he did that- how is it that his results turned out differently?"

Keep an open mind guys, and learn. That's what I do and it's served me well all of my life."

[MBTcustom]

That was great! I especially liked when he was bragging about hand lapping his barrels! I wonder how many folks didn't have the heart to tell him how he was hour-glassing his pipe. Also, he said he "broke it in with 500 jacketed bullets", I wonder if he knows that any copper fowling left in the barrel will give lead something to stick to?
That guy understands nothing. He compensates for his lack of knowledge by adhering to a process come hell or high water. If the slightest detail gets changed, he is lost as a ball in high weeds.
The sad thing is, I have to work with guys like this and they are all very insecure and hate "know-it-alls" like me who try to help.
It was a fun read though. I have never seen anybody ignore so much good advice simply because they want to discredit a company. I wonder if he knows his idiocy has made him regionally famous?

[JIMinPHX]

I left that forum with this note below and have not been back. Just don't have the time or energy to deal with "Experts".

I've seen a similar situation on a Vincent motorcycle owner's board. The veteran lads over there just did not have any tolerance for a newly joined yank that posted pictures of a bolt-on hub modification he had fabricated that made the wheel more reliable & easier to work on. All the old time members there seemed to want to do was tell the innovator how stupid he was. I know the individual in question personally. He's a former manufacturing engineer from Curtis Aviation that has been running his own CNC shop for many years now. I've seen him do some pretty sharp stuff over the years. The particular lads on that board just had no appetite for dissenting opinions or new concepts.

This seems to be a fairly universal issue that pops up in many corners of the web.

[Love Life]

Welcome Jeff and hang around for awhile.

[P.K.]

That was great! I especially liked when he was bragging about hand lapping his barrels! I wonder how many folks didn't have the heart to tell him how he was hour-glassing his pipe. Also, he said he "broke it in with 500 jacketed bullets", I wonder if he knows that any copper fowling left in the barrel will give lead something to stick to?
That guy understands nothing. He compensates for his lack of knowledge by adhering to a process come hell or high water. If the slightest detail gets changed, he is lost as a ball in high weeds.
The sad thing is, I have to work with guys like this and they are all very insecure and hate "know-it-alls" like me who try to help.
It was a fun read though. I have never seen anybody ignore so much good advice simply because they want to discredit a company. I wonder if he knows his idiocy has made him regionally famous?

You could cast that net a little further, there are regular posters on here from Europe, South America, Austraila and New Zeland. :lol:

[P.K.]

I've seen a similar situation on a Vincent motorcycle owner's board. The veteran lads over there just did not have any tolerance for a newly joined yank that posted pictures of a bolt-on hub modification he had fabricated that made the wheel more reliable & easier to work on. All the old time members there seemed to want to do was tell the innovator how stupid he was. I know the individual in question personally. He's a former manufacturing engineer from Curtis Aviation that has been running his own CNC shop for many years now. I've seen him do some pretty sharp stuff over the years. The particular lads on that board just had no appetite for dissenting opinions or new concepts.

This seems to be a fairly universal issue that pops up in many corners of the web.

Wow, unfortunate but if the site in question is loaded with serious restoration nuts it's not unheard of. ANY change from origional is to them scraligious(sp), and the offending party excommunicated soonest.

[imashooter2]

Unbelievable... After 3 weeks, the guy got the thread unlocked, posted another attack on MBC and got it locked again.

Curiously missing from this post were the BHN numbers from his "neighbor, related to my tenant, who goes to my church" expert with the new machine that measures hardness of anything.

[Lycanthrope]

Unbelievable... After 3 weeks, the guy got the thread unlocked, posted another attack on MBC and got it locked again.

Curiously missing from this post were the BHN numbers from his "neighbor, related to my tenant, who goes to my church" expert with the new machine that measures hardness of anything.

Thanks for starting untrue rumors.

The OP posted ANOTHER thread which was later merged by ANOTHER staffmember. It was never unlocked. I have contacted the owner of Missouri Bullets to allow that party to offer a rebuttal. It will remained locked.

[imashooter2]

Thanks for starting untrue rumors.

The OP posted ANOTHER thread which was later merged by ANOTHER staffmember. It was never unlocked. I have contacted the owner of Missouri Bullets to allow that party to offer a rebuttal. It will remained locked.

All I see in the thread is a new post by LeadHead and a lock. Perhaps when staff merges BS attack posts into locked threads, they should add a comment that says that is what they have done.

I humbly apologize for any pain this misunderstanding has caused you.

[DeanWinchester]

I clicked the link, but couldn't get past the first page. I know I'm an awful person for saying, but I just really don't care anymore about the ignorance and stupidity of people like that. The way I figure, their knowitall BS is easily spotted and I can stay away from them.

I hear it at the range from time to time, anything over a thousand FPS and you'll get leading... Okay sure......goodbye.:castmine:

[hiram1]

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm#tin

is this guy ok.i dont know if he knows what he is talking about

[Lycanthrope]

All I see in the thread is a new post by LeadHead and a lock. Perhaps when staff merges BS attack posts into locked threads, they should add a comment that says that is what they have done.

I humbly apologize for any pain this misunderstanding has caused you.

No sense muddying the waters with more incorrect information. I'm IN this thread. All someone has to do is ask or PM me.

There are multiple staff on that site and we don't live in the same household......and we certainly cannot read every thread we merge with 44,000 members.

The owner of Missouri bullets is in contact with me and may be providing a response.

[Matt_G]

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm#tin

is this guy ok.i dont know if he knows what he is talking about

Rick definitely knows what he is talking about.
I see nothing inaccurate in his write-up there about Tin and its limited ability to harden lead.

Wait, there is one error. Tin melts at 449 degrees F, not 429 as stated there.
I'll inform him of the typo...

[runfiverun]

glen might read it here anyways, he is a member.
fryxell has a good handle on things he has a degree and stuff to help him along.
his writing is about what he observes and about correct alloys and he gives good advice.
his writing on alloys and such are a lot closer to real world than just about anybody elses is.
you don't have to follow it to the letter.

[Love Life]

Look Lycanthrope. That guy is a serious idiot, and is slandering the name of a good company to cover for his dumbassery. You see it, I see it, hell even Ray Charles sees it.

[cbrick]

http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletAlloy.htm#tin

is this guy ok.i dont know if he knows what he is talking about


Rick definitely knows what he is talking about. I see nothing inaccurate in his write-up there about Tin and its limited ability to harden lead.

Wait, there is one error. Tin melts at 449 degrees F, not 429 as stated there. I'll inform him of the typo...

Matt, thanks for the email and heads up, it was definately a typo and I have corrected it.

Tin's melting point is 449 degrees and NOT 429 degrees.

Rick

[oneokie]

There are multiple staff on that site and we don't live in the same household......and we certainly cannot read every thread we merge with 44,000 members.



That begs the question; Why would a new thread be merged into a locked thread?

[Newtire]

Funny how most people I know still think that cast bullets can't be shot in rifles. Maybe only pistols if you don't push em too hard or if yu are cheap. Just offer to take any lead they have lying around off their hands.

[nanuk]

...... Some people shouldn't be allowed to have a loaded stapler.


Careful what you say.... the RCMP have tasered and killed a man for having a "Loaded Stapler" in the Vancouver Airport.

[nanuk]

....
The only bad memory I have of western PA was when I was a lawman and (stupidly) dated some dispatcher who was originally from Erie. She was a head case.



Did you say she was "Eerie"?

[nanuk]

Keep an open mind guys, and learn. That's what I do and it's served me well all of my life."


well put Pat

Me, I'm a bonehead... I have a really thick skull, but do remember what I'm taught (or read) most of the time

so when I see someone post something that is contrary to what I have read in the past, I challenge it, so I can get it straight in my head, as I realize MUCH of what we KNEW years ago, just ain't so

but I do listen and learn the new stuff also

[shooterg]

I just hit this thread again and then had to go catch up on the other one - it's better than late night TV !

[Lycanthrope]

Look Lycanthrope. That guy is a serious idiot, and is slandering the name of a good company to cover for his dumbassery. You see it, I see it, hell even Ray Charles sees it.

I'm not defending him. I just enforce the rules.

As for merged threads, we don't have weekly moderator meetings to discuss invidual reasoning of every decision. With the volume of posts we get (we have almost 2 million) we often have to move and merge significant number of posts daily.

[ss40_70]

i just read leadheads latest post ,.. very interesting to say the least ..
i would make the suggestion that you remove that latest post untill mb has a chance to respond then post both .

[Lycanthrope]

i just read leadheads latest post ,.. very interesting to say the least ..
i would make the suggestion that you remove that latest post untill mb has a chance to respond then post both .

I chose to let it remain since it was up for most of a day before I found it. It was viewed several times and if it "just disappeared" that would raise a lot of questions as well (and look shady).

On top of that, I have some information that the topic is being monitored by other parties that may have use for it.

MB is aware of the post and has not yet decided whether they wish to reply.

[jcwit]

Anyone see "law suite" coming?

[cbrick]

Thanks for starting untrue rumors.

The OP posted ANOTHER thread which was later merged by ANOTHER staffmember. It was never unlocked. I have contacted the owner of Missouri Bullets to allow that party to offer a rebuttal. It will remained locked.

Interesting, I hope Missouri Bullets does a rebuttal, it would be a crying shame to leave that incredible nonesense as the final word of that thread.

Rick

[Love Life]

Interesting, I hope Missouri Bullets does a rebuttal, it would be a crying shame to leave that incredible nonesense as the final word of that thread.

Rick

Yes it would. The uy is ridiculous in constantly slandering a company to cover his own inability. If I was MBC I would take him to court for slander.

[Recluse]

I chose to let it remain since it was up for most of a day before I found it. It was viewed several times and if it "just disappeared" that would raise a lot of questions as well (and look shady).

On top of that, I have some information that the topic is being monitored by other parties that may have use for it.

MB is aware of the post and has not yet decided whether they wish to reply.

The numbnuts who started the original thread may be entitled to form his own opinion, but he's not entitle to form his own "facts" in a flimsy attempt to support his errant opinion.

He's been proven unequivocally wrong so many times in that entire debacle that quite honestly, I can't believe he is still a member in good standing.

His continued membership and contributions, flagrantly false, isn't doing any of your otherwise excellent membership any favors.

IN other words, if he's going to slander a company whose reputation has largely been above reproach, it's the moderators' job to have the numbnuts either "put up or shut up or get gone."

He stated he was going to have all this BS testing done, and so far, not a peep.

:coffee:

[Lycanthrope]

The numbnuts who started the original thread may be entitled to form his own opinion, but he's not entitle to form his own "facts" in a flimsy attempt to support his errant opinion.

He's been proven unequivocally wrong so many times in that entire debacle that quite honestly, I can't believe he is still a member in good standing.

His continued membership and contributions, flagrantly false, isn't doing any of your otherwise excellent membership any favors.

IN other words, if he's going to slander a company whose reputation has largely been above reproach, it's the moderators' job to have the numbnuts either "put up or shut up or get gone."

He stated he was going to have all this BS testing done, and so far, not a peep.

:coffee:


Well, he's "entitled" to frame his own "facts" the same as every other guy that expounds on the virtue of .45 ACP over 9mm...... Or....maybe the guys who read you can't shoot 70+gr bullets out of a 1:9 twist .223...... It DEPENDS.

There are some bullets that do not pass QA/QC and just plain fail. You have the right to post that. At a certain point you need to "pony up" and provide some eveidence. The OP did not....it does not, however, mean we delete ALL posts that fail a litmus test.

"Moderation" does not mean to seek the truth. It means to make sure things flow smoothly so YOU can seek the truth.

[303Guy]

OK, now I'm mystified!:veryconfu How on earth is it possible for this person (the OP on the link thread) to be able change his underpants let alone earn a living or even just feed himself? Doesn't it require a functioning brain of some sort to function? Mind you, he's pretty good at accusing everyone else of doing what he's actually doing. (My ex was like that sometimes:?).

You guys sure he's for real and not just winding everybody up? After all, he can actually spell and operate a computer!

[bravokilo]

[QUOTE=Lycanthrope;1470519]No sense muddying the waters with more incorrect information. I'm IN this thread. All someone has to do is ask or PM me."

Well now, I find that very interesting. Really I do. I, for one am sure glad you are following this thread. I get to clear something up.

I saw this thread at the beginning. I followed the link over to your forum. I could see by the time I got there that soothing words in a gentle tone weren't getting the message across. I decided that a 2X4 to the head might work better. Unfortunately the longest one I had was a little short. I tried the "verbal" 2X4 a couple of times. Not even a dent. He was calling all recent members "Missouri Bullets trolls." As a parting shot I posted this:

"Yeah, right. If that is the case, how do you explain all of the long time members and posters who are saying the same thing? Deep cover moles??

"Have you noticed any shady looking characters hanging around lately when you leave the house? Maybe wearing trench coats? Things can sometimes get ugly when dealing with corporations, you know. And remember, THEY DO KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!!."

For that I got banned. No big deal. No skin off my a...um....posterior. HOWEVER, somebody had to add this:

"It appears that a member on another board made note of this thread in a "what not to do" type of thread and now several posters of that board came over here. Some read the rules and posted excellent information. Others decided to do some bashing without checking our rules."


There we have a problem. Nothing like throwing a couple of Molotov cocktails and then LOCKING the thread. Maybe you should review your own rules. I did not come to "BASH" and I DID READ YOUR RULES!! They did not say anything about asking a MORON a few pointed questions. The first question was serious. I wanted to know how he could explain how nobody, let me repeat that, NOBODY agreed with him, starting with post #2. The "trolls" didn't show up until post #43. The second question was tongue in cheek. I was curious to see how deep his paranoid delusions went.

I was busted for:

Instigation (20 points, Expires in 1 month)
If your only purpose of posting in a thread is to rile people up and cause drama, we'd prefer you simply not post. This is very subjective, but our moderators have very good trolldars.


Now, there are 20+ posts after my last one. How many of them reference my last post? Boy Howdy, did I stir up a s***storm!! If I was trying to "instigate" I didn't do so well did I?

I REALLY DO THINK YOUR "TROLLDAR" NEEDS A TUNEUP!!

And I quote again:

"No sense muddying the waters with more incorrect information. I'm IN this thread. All someone has to do is ask or PM me."

I would think that advice should cut BOTH ways.

And furthermore, isn't issuing an infraction on the first post after letting, what, 24 posts go by kinda like locking the barn door after the horse is a few STATES away?? That thread should have been locked within 6-8 posts.

In closing, this guy is a complete fool. He is DANGEROUS!!. He is a KA-BOOM just waiting to happen. I can only pray that he is alone WHEN (not if) it happens.

I REALLY do think you need to clean up YOUR doorstep before you come over here and rag on somebody who makes a post based on the ONLY information available to him.

Now what I really want to know is 1) How old is this guy, REALLY. I don't believe this 40yrs BS, not for a nanosecond. If he is over 20 he is certifiable He should be locked up as a danger to himself and others. 2) Just what ARE the test results for the BHN??


BK

[bravokilo]

OK, now I mystified!:veryconfu How on earth is it possible for this person (the OP on the link thread) to be able change his underpants let alone earn a living or even just feed himself? Doesn't it require a functioning brain of some sort to function? Mind you, he's pretty good at accusing everyone else of doing what he's actually doing. (My ex was like that sometimes:?).

You guys sure he's for real and not just winding everybody up? After all, he can actually spell and operate a computer!


You mean like this?

"The dynamics of forums will always escape me. It's where ego sucks all intelligence out of a brain. I just cant understand how common sense goes out the window."


Spell?? He spells like.....ah...feces.

BK

[303Guy]

I was using the term 'spell' loosely. [smilie=1: I just can't see how it's possible for anyone who actually thinks (again the term 'thinks' is being used loosely) can actually manage to turn on a computer or even feed himself. It's actually funny once you get past the initial shock. (And it is a shock!)

If you think about it, he loads 1,500 boolits, damaging them in the process then proceeds to pull them all and shows photo's of these loaded and pulled boolits and claims they are defective. Funny how he didn't notice the defects while he was loading them? He's having everyone on. Has to be or he would have starved to death or forgotten to breath a long time ago.

[bravokilo]

I was using the term 'spell' loosely. [smilie=1: I just can't see how it's possible for anyone who actually thinks (again the term 'thinks' is being used loosely) can actually manage to turn on a computer or even feed himself. It's actually funny once you get past the initial shock. (And it is a shock!)

If you think about it, he loads 1,500 boolits, damaging them in the process then proceeds to pull them all and shows photo's of these loaded and pulled boolits and claims they are defective. Funny how he didn't notice the defects while he was loading them? He's having everyone on. Has to be or he would have starved to death or forgotten to breath a long time ago.


You have no idea how I WISH that were true!!

BK

[303Guy]

Mind you you, I have a mate who told me it was impossible to shoot a lead boolit out a rifle - "Think about" he said, " How can the soft lead grip the rifling?" (This was when I decided to start casting for my 303 Brit). All this time he was shooting with his 22rf!

He was present when I shot this group on the first trial. Up until I shot the group he was telling me it would not work.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-457F_edited.jpg

You can see how funny all this really is!:bigsmyl2:

I don't understand how this fellow can still be alive. But because of his driving! I won't go in a car with him! (He is a damn good shot).

[Buckshot]

..............I LOVED reading that thread!:D I fail to believe someone could be that hardheaded. I think he figured he had 2 choices, admit he might have made a mistake and man up. Or he could sull up and hold a hard line on his original 'Facts' as he presented them. Once he saddled up choice number 2 and took a couple bucks, he was too afraid to let go and decided to ride it off over the horizon.

I can certainly see how the other member's tempers were beginning to fray around the edges. 8-)

................Buckshot

[Bullwolf]

I actually felt bad for the original poster after reading the whole thread. I feel a bit bad for Missouri Bullets as well since they were slandered for his poor understanding of shooting cast boolits, and his inexperienced reloading practices regarding cast as well.

That gentleman was way too proud to ever admit any error on his own part, or to be able to learn from his mistakes.

I considered signing up over there to try offer some help, but I doubt that it would have been listened to objectively by the original poster. Besides, a few of our members like Cbrick, and Recluse did a much better (and more eloquent) job of explaining the basic tenements of cast boolits calmly, and more precisely than I could have.

A new caster/re-loader who reads the the whole thing now should still be able to take away some good information from the thread because of you guys.

Size really does matter with cast boolits. Proper fit is the single most important factor, and fit is a lot more critical than hardness. Slug your barrel, and measure with a quality micrometer. It's amazing how much size can vary from one barrel to another, and this point just helps reinforce why slugging your barrel is so important. Undersized cast lead boolits are very likely to gas cut, and coat a barrel with lead under most conditions. Your alloy's hardness, and composition are not the ultimate solution to reducing leading, they are just one part of a very complex equation.

A lot of us had to learn these lessons from school of hard knocks. When the internet wasn't around, there was no easy knowledge base to quickly reference. Unlike the now generation, we just read books and experimented a lot instead.

Unless you were fortunate enough to have an experienced boolit caster, or cast loader around to teach you the basics - You just learned from trial and error.

I have cast boolits, and hand loaded for what I consider a long time, and yet I still manage learn new tips and tricks quite often. Most of time those new tricks come from other members on this board. Cast Boolits really has one of the best communities out there. That was why I eventually signed up here, and started posting after years of lurking on the board.

Great job getting the information across gang, and what a read that thread was. It was like watching a train wreck. I found myself fascinated, and yet I couldn't quite look away.


- Bullwolf

[bullpen7979]

My favorite was.... .356 is not a caliber.....
That was awesome.

From the EVO via Tapatalk

[Lycanthrope]

"Have you noticed any shady looking characters hanging around lately when you leave the house? Maybe wearing trench coats? Things can sometimes get ugly when dealing with corporations, you know. And remember, THEY DO KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!!."

For that I got banned. No big deal. No skin off my a...um....posterior. HOWEVER, somebody had to add this:

There we have a problem. Nothing like throwing a couple of Molotov cocktails and then LOCKING the thread. Maybe you should review your own rules. I did not come to "BASH" and I DID READ YOUR RULES!! They did not say anything about asking a MORON a few pointed questions. The first question was serious. I wanted to know how he could explain how nobody, let me repeat that, NOBODY agreed with him, starting with post #2. The "trolls" didn't show up until post #43. The second question was tongue in cheek. I was curious to see how deep his paranoid delusions went.

I was busted for:

Instigation (20 points, Expires in 1 month)
If your only purpose of posting in a thread is to rile people up and cause drama, we'd prefer you simply not post. This is very subjective, but our moderators have very good trolldars.



And furthermore, isn't issuing an infraction on the first post after letting, what, 24 posts go by kinda like locking the barn door after the horse is a few STATES away?? That thread should have been locked within 6-8 posts.

I REALLY do think you need to clean up YOUR doorstep before you come over here and rag on somebody who makes a post based on the ONLY information available to him.

BK

My point was that he DID have the information available to him. Right here, right now.

I think you "ban" lasted a day. That's typical for a low level infraction.

The rules state you cannot make a personal attack...as in calling someone a "moron". You are quite welcome to say you think their perspective is false.

When you "want to see how far his delusions went" you were instigating. No one has time to sort through every post and figure out who is misinformed, trolling or just plain ignorant. Every day a thread starts about topics that have not been proven by any real evidence. Forums are generally a place for discussion.....we aren't an encyclopedia of "truth". Should we have an IQ requirement for posting? What about no posters with a mental health diagnosis?

The OP was infracted for his original post not for content, but for making a personal attack in the reputation system.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

[1Shirt]

Eh! There is often a problem with the gene pool I fear!
1Shirt!:coffee:

[waksupi]

I personally thank the staff member for showing up here. He has no more need to defend a board members posts, than we do here. If a person wants to make a public *** of himself, it is both educational, and entertaining, if this thread is any indication. We delete out some of those type posts here, but I oft times leave them in public view, to let the poster stew in his own juices.
As far as second guessing how a staff member does his job on a board of thousands, none of us will ever make everyone 100% happy.

[303Guy]

waksupi, I think you folks do a splendid job on this forum and I thank you all! :drinks:

[nanuk]

when it comes to forums, I have always believed it is better to let the buffoonery stand in the light, than to shuffle it off into some dark corner somewhere

that way, EVERYONE can see how _____ (insert your word here) the poster is, and can take them to task, or educate them.

this is how we learn from the mistakes of others, Cause we dang sure won't live long enough to make them all ourselves

[adrians]

i read the whole thing twice (what a chore that was) ,i have only been casting a meer 6 years and i can only say what the heck has he been smoking for the last 40 years?.
i wonder if he even had the correct size collet in his puller.
if my puller was doing that much damage then the ole inertia hammer would come out of the drawer.
he is a very egotisticle ,self centered, my way or the highway type of fellow.
goodnight yall and be safe:twisted::coffeecom:twisted:

[kmag]

That man needs help. Everyone tried to confuse him with the facts but his mind was made up.

[PatMarlin]

Fumes bad. Brain Damage may occur.

Please cast in a well ventilated area ...:mrgreen:

[mpmarty]

Bring him in here and let the mods declare open season on him.:drinks:

[Ugluk]

Come on guys, enough already. No point flogging a dead horse.

The guy messed up something in his reloading procedure, had a brain fart and blamed the components. He's painted himself in a corner and won't come out until the paint has dried.
Too bad, I really got curious about the hardness of that MB lead.

[bravokilo]

My point was that he DID have the information available to him. Right here, right now.

I think you "ban" lasted a day. That's typical for a low level infraction.

The rules state you cannot make a personal attack...as in calling someone a "moron". You are quite welcome to say you think their perspective is false.

When you "want to see how far his delusions went" you were instigating. No one has time to sort through every post and figure out who is misinformed, trolling or just plain ignorant. Every day a thread starts about topics that have not been proven by any real evidence. Forums are generally a place for discussion.....we aren't an encyclopedia of "truth". Should we have an IQ requirement for posting? What about no posters with a mental health diagnosis?

The OP was infracted for his original post not for content, but for making a personal attack in the reputation system.

Hope that clears things up a bit.


Well, well, well. I see you quoted almost everything EXCEPT what precipitated the post in the first place. :


"It appears that a member on another board made note of this thread in a "what not to do" type of thread and now several posters of that board came over here. Some read the rules and posted excellent information. Others decided to do some bashing without checking our rules."


I wonder who wrote that? I REALLY RESENT the implication that I (we) are "too stoopid and ignert too reed the rools". I also resent you implying:

The rules state you cannot make a personal attack...as in calling someone a "moron". You are quite welcome to say you think their perspective is false.

I DID NOT REFER TO "KNOTHEAD" AS A MORON IN THE PAFOA THREAD.

Are you also saying that my first two posts did not convey any useful info??

Seriously there were EXACTLY 2 of us who, besides the OP who received infractions, if you can't keep track of that many people maybe you should turn in your moderator badge.

I was tired of him squealing like a little girl and YOU letting him call all of us "MISSOURI BULLET TROLLS"

I also really think it is lame that you would post that after this:

"It may be an error in process or it may be that a batch of bad bullets got through. At this point, none of you really know....."

YOU didn't REALLY know where we came from and why we were there but you thought your flippant snide comment was fully justified.


And then we have this:

Unbelievable... After 3 weeks, the guy got the thread unlocked, posted another attack on MBC and got it locked again.

Curiously missing from this post were the BHN numbers from his "neighbor, related to my tenant, who goes to my church" expert with the new machine that measures hardness of anything.

To which you replied"

Thanks for starting untrue rumors.

The OP posted ANOTHER thread which was later merged by ANOTHER staffmember. It was never unlocked. I have contacted the owner of Missouri Bullets to allow that party to offer a rebuttal. It will remained locked.

And:

All I see in the thread is a new post by LeadHead and a lock. Perhaps when staff merges BS attack posts into locked threads, they should add a comment that says that is what they have done.

I humbly apologize for any pain this misunderstanding has caused you.

To which you replied:

No sense muddying the waters with more incorrect information. I'm IN this thread. All someone has to do is ask or PM me.


??? If I would have seen that first I would have posted pretty much the exact same thing. And guess what, I would have NEVER even thought of PM'ing YOU first. Who the hell are you that a member of THIS board has to run anything by you??? If you want to prevent confusion in the future maybe your mods should be instructed to offer an explanation when merging another grenade into an already contentious and LOCKED thread. Also, as you said:

"I'm IN this thread."

Then it would seem to me that it is YOUR responsibility to correct any errors on YOUR part WITHOUT chastising any members of THIS BOARD!!

You may be be a big fish in the pond over on the PAFOA forum, but over here you are just another minnow in the school. Try hard not to forget that in the future.

[Roundnoser]

Come on guys, enough already. No point flogging a dead horse.

The guy messed up something in his reloading procedure, had a brain fart and blamed the components. He's painted himself in a corner and won't come out until the paint has dried.
Too bad, I really got curious about the hardness of that MB lead.

You hit the nail right on the head. He has made his bed and must lie in it. Instead of arguing with someone who would rather die than admit a mistake (or at least the possilbility of a mistake), its better to make a short comment like, "Sorry to hear you are having such difficulty....Can't say I've ever had a problem with Missouri Bullets. They are a good company"

At least that way, you avoid his excuses and accusations, and at the same time put in a good plug for MB! Leadhead was good entertainment, but I have no further use for his poor behavior. -- These forums are suppossed to be fun. they are a great compliment to my reloading and casting hobby. I don't like seeing things get all crazy. Just my 2 cents.

[supe47]

Missouri Bullets "Hardness Optimized"?
That was....AWESOME. I'm at the right forum. Had kind of the same problem in the early 80's with pure lead 45's......but we won't go into that. Live and learn. I lived, I learned and I believe got better. Of course, still learnin'. That thread was entertaining but sad. There are none so blind as he who will not see.

[Lycanthrope]

You may be be a big fish in the pond over on the PAFOA forum, but over here you are just another minnow in the school. Try hard not to forget that in the future.

Meh. I did what I thought was best. You're welcome to disagree with it.

[wiljen]

Take it back where it came from. I'm not having a debate about someone else's rules or infractions here.

This is not open for debate and I promise you I will enforce the "We reserve the right to remove any member at any time" clause if it comes to that.

[MikeS]

Wiljen: Thank You Very Much!

[Love Life]

Well no truth seeking went on in that thread.

[ss40_70]

well i popped over to see if mbc had maybe posted a reply to the thread and noticed mr leadhead is now banned .. kudo's to lycanthrope or who ever is responsible for that , i just hope its permanant

[Lycanthrope]

well i popped over to see if mbc had maybe posted a reply to the thread and noticed mr leadhead is now banned .. kudo's to lycanthrope or who ever is responsible for that , i just hope its permanant

It's permanant.

[Bret4207]

Lycanthrope, personally I think it was handled rather well. I hope to see you here more often.

[BABore]

You all should look over your shoulder when ripping on this ignorant person. It appears he is a member here. A Boolit Master no less. Where's a Moderator when you need one.:coffeecom

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=1582

I take back that "ignorant"remark. Ignorance is a correctable condition. Toopid is permanent.