View Full Version : TC 30-30 load Help.............
I am having some trouble getting this thing to shoot. It seems to be throwing flyers at 150 and 200. I am using the RCBS 165 Sil bullet, with a dose of blue dot. It shoots really well at 100 and have shot some groups at 150 and 200. But, at the most inopertune time it will throw a flyer. I have slugged the bore and the whole shmeer, right at 308, and am sizing them at 309+.
Should I weigh some of these and batch them? I have been keeping each batch seperate, rather than keeping them in a bulk can.
If any of you have a tried and true "pet" load that has worked in most 30-30's I would be thankful for the help, rifle loads included.
Next month is our IHMSA state match and would sure like to shoot a 40x40 then using cast bullets.
Thanks for any help here.
06-14-2005, 03:43 PM
Uh Huh, defanitly weigh your boolits. Its POSSIBLE that you have one that has a void in it. It will show up on the scales.
I was shooting 22 cal 57 grain boolits. I weighed them and groups shrunk. The thing that amazes me is those would vary by as much as a grain. Then I weighed a bunch of 30 cal 146 grain boolits and they only varied by 1/2 grain. Go figure.
I have never shot a 30-30, but I understand if you neck size only it will headspace on the case shoulder instead of the rim and could shoot better.
I just look through my records and I have 41 loads using cast bullets with my T/C Contender in 30-30 cartridge. It is also interesting to note that only a couple of the loads produced acceptable accuracy for me at greater than 100 yards. The Lyman 311041 has been the best bullet so far. I am shooting it â€œas castâ€ with only the check sized to .311â€ to set it in place. The most accurate powder has been IMR-7383 (surplus) for a velocity of just a tad less than 1700 fps. With this load, I can continually hit my 5.5â€x11â€ steel pendulum at 200 yards from a good rest. It generally stays at M.O.A. at 100 yards. The Lee 309-150-F has also been a fair performer with velocities up to about 1800 fps. Part of the accuracy thing may be keeping the velocity at the numbers I mentioned. I tried hot rodding them some, but accuracy went away. I have tried the silhouette bullet you mention, and accuracy was absolutely miserableâ€”keyholes and every other thing that could cause problems. The bullets were sent to me by someone I donâ€™t remember who, and the bullets looked dang nice and were well cast and consistent. Still they would not shoot worth a darnâ€¦Period.
If you are a Contender shooter, then you are probably aware of how finicky they can be. I have discovered that they will consistently shoot, what I call, the 2 and 1 group. Two hits will be close and the other hit will be proportionally farther distance than the distance between the two closest. The â€œflyerâ€ (and I am not sure that is what it is) can be any of the three rounds fired. I have discussed this with many very experienced people who have shot Contenders until they couldnâ€™t fire anymore rounds and the advice is always all over the board. If one tried all the advice that was given, it would take â€˜bout a year and several thousand dollars worth of changes, adjustments, attachments, and etcâ€¦
I know this didnâ€™t help much, but Contenders are good when they are good and fecal matter when they are acting as they do from time to time. This is true with jacketed bullets also. Regardless, the 311041 bullet has been the best for me. Good-luckâ€¦BCB
06-14-2005, 05:22 PM
David, 22 boolits freeze fast. Cast them as hot as the pot and mold will go, allowing more air to escape before a slight solidification. Keep the tin content as low as possible, as to keep the melt temp as high as possible. ... felix
David R, I have sized the cases severeal different ways. I have a 35 Remington rimmed that has shot everything I have fed it very well, nothing over a 5" group at 200M. It is just a little too much of a good thing for this game. All though I am starting to think on it a lot harder as of late.
I have fooled with TC's long enough to know they are like women, NO two are alike. Then when you think you have them figured out, BAM.
BCB, I can relate to the 2 in 1 group very well. I think the "flyer" that we see is a lot more to do with grip than anything. TC's are VERY grip sensitive.
If the flyer I was getting was just a couple of inches high or low, I would be in good shape. But they seem to keep climbing and never settle back into the group. The RCBS bullet I shot for some groups at 200M did not show any signs of keyholing or tumbling. I do have some of the Lee 150 and 180's. I did not have very good luck with them. Tried some of the RG4's in it, the throat is very tight in this and will not chamber some of them. But the ones that did chamber shoot some what better
If I weigh some of these, what kind of variance should I look for? I mean 1 grain differences or less than that? I weighed a bunch of (gulp) jacketed bullets a few years back. Did not do a thing for my group size.
I am almost to the point of maybe pointing my finger at the crown. Though it does not look bad with a loop. It may still not be square and throwing some of them into a yaw. I have kept an eye on how the "star" looks and it seems to be even all the way around.
06-15-2005, 02:37 AM
I don't know if its the right way, but when I weigh my boolits, I do a bunch and thoss back the worse. If most are within 1/2 grain, then that is what I keep. I think I have read on this board that you could go as low as .1 grain. I am just looking for fliers, not perfection. I am more looking for the oddball then "groups".
I had a TC 21" barrel in 223. It would string vertical as it warmed up. I sent it back with targets and a note. They sent me a new barrel no charge.
What kind of groups are you getting @ 200 M and how far out is that silly one shot?
06-15-2005, 06:47 AM
JSH, I had the same problems shooting IHMSA with my 30-30 TC. I used the same boolit. I would hit a bunch, then would start to overshoot. I don't remember the load but it was accurate enough to hit nickels at 100 yd's with a scope. Miserable at the shoots though. I tracked the problem down to the powders I was using. Some were extremely heat sensitive. Others were too slow burning for the size of the case and the length of the barrel.
I was having the same problem with my 7R Witchita. I switched to SR 4759 powder in the 7R and started shooting 40's. I don't know how much to tell you to use in the 30-30 but I use 18.4 grs. in the 7R and 18 grs. in the 7BR.
I then wanted to shoot light 120 gr. bullets for deer, but neither gun would group them having rifling for longer bullets. I called Hodgden to ask about Varget and they said it would not work. I tried it anyway and was surprised at the tight groups I got and the velocity was good. I use 34.5 grs. in the 7R and 32.5 in the 7BR. I never tried Varget with heavier boolits since I quit IHMSA long ago and have no need for heavy boolits for hunting. It might be worth a try for you.
Another strange thing about the 30-30, 165 gr. RCBS boolit happened when I ran out of gas checks so I loaded some without them. Every boolit went through the paper sideways at 50 meters. With the gas check I was shooting nickels and pennys at 100 yds.
I have also heard Blue Dot is touchy when the temperature changes or when loaded close to max.
My TC barrel would lead bad and if I shot any condom bullets, the copper fouling took a week to remove. TC replaced it and the new barrel was worse so I sold the gun. I tried to smooth it out by shooting one and cleaning for 40 shots but it was just too rough. Power lapping might have fixed it.
DavidR, group size goes up and down every time out. I am going to say the best I have done with it off of the bags at 200M is right around 3-4". The average though is running around 5-6" with the flyer opening it up to maybe 12-20".
Interesting that TC sent you a new barrel, as the have no guarantee on accuracy. They will take care of a bad chamber job or long throats. Or I should say they have in the past.
44man, interesting on the Varget thoughts as i posted this on the IHMSA board too. A fellow I met from Mich last year, posted he has used varget with good luck too.
Another gent recommended SR 4759 also.
I had talked to a few different fellows on the Blue Dot. Their findings indicated no problems to temp and position sensitivity. My findings were some what different on position, have not fooled with temp yet, but no signs now. But the funny thing is the Blue Dot in the 35 Remington Rimmed worked very well with NONE of the problems of the 30-30. Maybe a case capacity issue?
I am wondering about 4895 and the 165 RCBS, as I have a fair bunch of it to fool with. Have also considered 4198, but that damn stuff measures like gravel, shoots really well though. I guess I want my cake and eat it too.
I cleaned this barrel with "Wipe Out". Gets it squeaky clean. I use Kroil followed with some JB bore paste. Then have been using Shooters Choice FP-10. This oil is supposed to go into the pores of the metal, some guys call it snake oil. I use it in the bores of my air pistols and air rifles, gained me about 100fps in both of them. In the cast bullet guns the cleaning has been a whole lot easier when using this.
With that being said I will caution some of you about what kind of "slick'em" you put in your .22's. One fellow I shoot with put one of the Tetra lubes in his DW .22 revolver. Rear sight is bottomed out and he is still shooting high at 25 yards. He said the more he shoots it the lower it gets, so it must be working the lube out.
Thanks for the help fellows, much appreciated.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.1 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.