Light Deer Loads

[grullaguy]

I have playing around with a 7 grain charge of HS-6 and similar powders for plinking and small game hunting using cast bullets. All bullets tested were very accurate out to 50 yards if I ensured the powder was seated in the back of the casing prior to firing.

Today, I tested 3 bullet styles with two similar shotgun/pistol powders. Load increments were in 7, 8 and 9 grains of powder in bullets ranging from 165 through 200 grains in weight. The bullets also varied in hardness from dead soft to BHN 25. (They are paper patched rejects from some of my high velocity tests)

I took three, 2" thick, fir planks out as the backstop of a target with a separate aim point marked for each bullet and powder combination.

After firing all bullets, I was surprised to see that they ALL had penetrated all the planks. This far exceeded my expectations for penetration. I was thinking of getting a black powder rifle to make hunting more of a challenge, but this bullet and powder combination seems to match the smaller caliber BP cartridges. With a well placed shot through the vitals and followed by the tracking protocols used for archery and bp hunting, I don't see why these could not be a viable deer getter. Vancouver Island Blacktails are much smaller than mainland deer by the way.

[Bret4207]

The 32-20 and 38-40 were considered adequate deer rifles in the Adirondacks where I grew up. The 22 Mag was the jackers rifle. An awful lot of deer fell to 45 cal round balls too. A 170-200 gr 30-35 cal boolit at 800 fps or more is going to make a mess of a deers skull and you may not recover the boolit. It's as much where you hit them as what you hit them with. I'm not a horn hunter, so head shots are okay with me.

[x101airborne]

Yeah, gotta love the head shot. I have never found the horn very palatable no matter how you cook em. Even a slightly off head shot will stun em long enough to give em a second dose. And very little wasted meat. What caliber are you shooting?

[grullaguy]

This is in .303 British.
I have a Lithgow No 1 Mk3, an Eddystone P14 and a Ruger #1 in that caliber.

[OnHoPr]

You have to consider in archery that a broadhead makes a least one big hole for bleeding and if the broadhead stays inside it tears up vitals when the game is running. With a complete pass through you have two big holes bleeding. Most BP kills are done with .44 cal or larger and an average of 1500fps witch makes one or two big holes with energy. .30 cal at low velocities will go through the rib cage of a deer but without energy and big holes for bleeding. They will kill the animal but tracking may be very difficult. It probably could be done, but for per se average, it isn't recommended.IMO

[grullaguy]

I agree completely. For someone who had not hunted with primitive weapons and has limited tracking skills, it is better to use something with more knockdown power. In my case, I have been tracking all of my life and later in life, took a tracking course as well.

I am thinking of the instance where I would be hunting small game with one of these low power rounds and am presented with a nice side shot on a standing deer at close range <50 yrds. I could then use one of these rounds which is already chambered, without fumbling for another round.

And you gotta love those head shots.

[Bret4207]

Bust the shoulders. They can't run with busted shoulders and a light loaded 30-180 will do it no prob. I've never been a fan of the lung shot idea where the animal is expected to run 100-300 yards anyway. Even a heart shot can do that. If you don't like head shots bust the shoulders and the shock often affects the spine too.

[caseyboy]

Hi Grullguy,

The picture in my avatar is a Vancouver Island Blacktail that was taken with a 180gr unchecked boolit pushed with 8.5 gr Reddot. I estimate the speed at 1300fps. This buck and another were both shot through the chest. Boolits passed thru and never recovered. Both deer piled up in less than 100 meters. Shot placement is paramount and I try to keep the shots under 60 meters.:bigsmyl2:

Mike

[TCLouis]

Lets see the 357 mag with 155 grain bullet/boolit at 1100-1200 at the muzzle is adequate out to 50 yards and a heavier boolit at higher speed is not?


I think the more I see read about boolits the more I think some current killing theory is incorrect or less that 00 percent accurate.

[Old Iron Sights]

I am surprised by the penetrating ability of reduced cb loads. I was plinking with my m95, shooting 329/205 over 9.5 gr trail boss. The bullet went through a 2X4 and 3/4" plywood easily at 70 yards. These bullets aren't the most accurate but I'm looking for stouter hunting loads so I picked up some IMR4895 to try also.

[OnHoPr]

Shot my first deer (doe) with a scoped .357 BH with 15.5gr of 2400 and a 150gr HC sierra at 15yds broadside. The deer DRT and I began to get up and she got up and took off like a bat out of heck. Tail tucked down tight and butt 16" off the ground with turf and leaves flying like she was on a YZ250. There was no blood at point of shot and for the first 100yds or so where you could definitely see her tearing up earth. From there, with fresh falling oak leaves the tracking got harder and I lose her trail. I scoured the area for her in the direction she was running for about five hours and a half of a mile with no avail. The landscape was flat with oaks and jackpine with hardly nil brush and downfalls. :( Now that I look back (35years ago), I knew she was a dead deer. I was inexperienced at tracking, but even now 35 years later she would have been a hard deer to find.

[grullaguy]

Tracking is pretty much a lost skill. My Dad taught me how to track. He grew up during the great depression and ran away from an abusive home when he was 14.
To keep fed the first winter after he left home, he shot deer and small game for a logging crew with a single shot .22.

Back in the early 80s, it took me over a day to find a deer that I had wounded with a borrowed rifle. While tracking it, a big rainstorm came in and washed out all the sign. The next day I went back and tried to pick up the trail, but I was eventually guided to it by crows cawing. I ate it, mostly as pepperoni, but it was not a good deer.

In the 90s, when I lived in Alberta, word got out that I could track and I would get the occasional call to come find a lost animal. Most times, the hunter (often bow hunters) had run forward after shooting the animal and then tried to follow it. When they could not find it, they would start wandering around looking, sometimes in an organized search pattern but more often not. That made for some hard tracking. I soon learned to start with the questions: Where were you when you took the shot? Where was the animal? Where did it run and where did you last have sight of it? Where did you last hear it and did it make any sounds?

There is are so many tricks that I have learned over the years, when it comes to tracking. Too many to start writing about today.

The thing now is to have a rifle in one of the ultra magnum calibers. Guys are hunting 110 lb deer with them here and can't figure out why the little deer don't stay down when shot with a $3 partition bullet.
It's the same thing. All that energy is wasted on the country side down range from the deer. Deer are being fed to crows because inexperienced people are trying to substitute skill with technology.

Rant over.

[Larry Gibson]

I never did care for the head shot as I've had to put down to many with shot off noses and broken jaws. The effective head shot on a deer is a very small target considering the moveable nature of the target. Center neck is better but, as mentioned by Bret, breaking one or both shoulders/front legs is better. I've also lost a deer that I thought was DRT that got up and ran off. It's no fun and I've regretted it ever since.

No qualms with the lighter load but given the capability of the cartridge....why? Wouldn't a good 165 - 200 gr cast bullets cast soft of 50/50 WW/lead with a large meplat or minimally HP'd at 1800 fps or so be a better choice? It would give a "margin of error" so to speak, especially if the shoulder shot was used putting the bullet through one or both shoulder/legs and the heart area of the deer. Hardly any meat is reall damaged with that shot BTW using such a cast bullet load. Just my opinion based on having shot a lot of deer with such.

Larry Gibson

[grullaguy]

I never did care for the head shot as I've had to put down to many with shot off noses and broken jaws. The effective head shot on a deer is a very small target considering the moveable nature of the target. Center neck is better but, as mentioned by Bret, breaking one or both shoulders/front legs is better. I've also lost a deer that I thought was DRT that got up and ran off. It's no fun and I've regretted it ever since.

No qualms with the lighter load but given the capability of the cartridge....why? Wouldn't a good 165 - 200 gr cast bullets cast soft of 50/50 WW/lead with a large meplat or minimally HP'd at 1800 fps or so be a better choice? It would give a "margin of error" so to speak, especially if the shoulder shot was used putting the bullet through one or both shoulder/legs and the heart area of the deer. Hardly any meat is reall damaged with that shot BTW using such a cast bullet load. Just my opinion based on having shot a lot of deer with such.

Larry Gibson


I have just developed an accurate, full power, .303 patched load for my Ruger using soft lead (BHN 8). That would be my choice for dedicated deer hunts.
Often however, I will see deer when hunting rabbits and it is nice to know that if I had the chance, I could take a shot with one of the lighter loadings, without having to reload the gun and likely have the deer run away in the process.

[Larry Gibson]

grullaguy

Makes sense to me.

Lary Gibson

[Old Goat Keeper]

Get a double rifle in you choice of caliber. Load one barrel light and one heavy. Just have to remember which barrel is which! That is why I keep throwing my coins in the pickle barrel! LOL

T-o-m

[grullaguy]

Get a double rifle in you choice of caliber. Load one barrel light and one heavy. Just have to remember which barrel is which! That is why I keep throwing my coins in the pickle barrel! LOL

T-o-m


Your double must be one of the old classics.

I have the same problem with my double shotgun. During deer season, I like to have buckshot in one barrel and bird shot in the other. I haven't tried shooting a deer with bird shot yet but I did mess up a rabbit last year with buckshot. Grouse? Well the grouse just laugh at me.

Oops, I just re-read your post. You said get a double not got a double.